christians: >something must have caused the big bang and that something is god.
also christians: >nothing caused god and I dont have cognitive dissonance
I don’t do Theist debates, but >he hasn’t learned about Big Bang theory that repeats yet
You do realize that the theory behind the Big Bang wonders if universes come in and out of being all the time, hinting at eternity and eternal new universes being created, right?
Hence, God is the root of the tree of existence and all that stuff.
Existence is impossible to reason or logically justify. God has no more explanatory power than the universe arbitrarily existing, far less even since the initial state of the universe is far more simple than Yahweh. There is no rational or defensible reason for the existence of reality, it is an unconditional fact that we simply have to accept.
This question is a failure to understand the eternalness of God, because humans think in causality. There is no "before". God has always been, which boggles the human mind, because it cannot comprehend it.
God did not precede space and did because there is no such thing as before time. God exists outside of both space and time, which is logically necessary in order for him to be able to create it.
Which is what I am saying, the universe does not require anything to precede it. The universe does not need to be created when the rules of the universe do not somehow act on it from outside itself.
2 years ago
Anonymous
If the universe does not need anything to precede in order to create it, you're suggesting that the universe is uncaused. That is not consistent with the rest of reality.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Existence is uncaused and unreasonable, the observable universe's finity is subordinate to the fact of reality.
2 years ago
Anonymous
If existence is unreasonable, why are there fixed physical laws that are unchanging? It was be more unreasonable for the universe to be in a constant state of unpredictable chaos, but it's not.
2 years ago
Anonymous
In a sense, the absurdity is carried over into everything within the observable universe, as it is self-defined and only coherent in respect to itself. Time and space only exist in the manner of objects in the universe relative to each other. In addition, this seems to be apparent much more literally on the quantum level.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>you're suggesting that the universe is uncaused. That is not consistent with the rest of reality
It is not inconsistent with the rest of reality if the rest of reality is assumed to be uncreated. Everything around you is everchanging, but is never being “created” or “destroyed” either. You’re looking for a prime mover, not for a creator, and we’re saying you don’t need a prime mover of things just “are” and by nature of their “being” they simply change.
It is no more unreasonable a take than that of an uncreated creator existing outside of reality, although it is maybe less comforting. But the end result is the same, the outside creator would have had to decide to create our reality at some point in his exterior frame of existence. Which means he either predates it and has his own creator or is himself eternal and chose a point in HIS timeframe to act. ( and he does have a timeframe as he created our reality, requiring an action therefore a change on his part).
2 years ago
Anonymous
>and he does have a timeframe as he created our reality, requiring an action therefore a change on his part
Kabbalah has an interesting take on this, with Yahweh being eternal and unchanging, and rather than doing anything, creation is actually just limited observation of himself. Of course, this is completely contrary to all other Abrahamic including Christian views, and does not really need to be discussed as no one here will proclaim it.
>there is no such thing as before time
But there is. The state before the big bang had no “time” passing. Universal time started with the Big Bang regardless of what occurred before it.
Just like time would stop in case of a big Freeze or at the end of a big crunch.
You cant be omnipotent if something had to create you in the first place so you are already objectively wrong about what God is before even asking the question
*convert 🙁
Boltzmann brain
The gods are emanations from an eternal (without beginning or end), impersonal source.
God invented "before and after". Thus there was no "before" when applied to God.
So why can’t this apply to the Big Bang? Singularities don’t have time.
He begets not, nor is He begotten.
He was always there. How so? This is a divine mystery but everything must emanate from the one.
God always was, He is the I AM.
you can replace Jesus with any other prophet in this verse, nothing about this is divine
I created the universe, and I created God.
>thinks something had to create God
NGMI
christians:
>something must have caused the big bang and that something is god.
also christians:
>nothing caused god and I dont have cognitive dissonance
I don’t do Theist debates, but
>he hasn’t learned about Big Bang theory that repeats yet
You do realize that the theory behind the Big Bang wonders if universes come in and out of being all the time, hinting at eternity and eternal new universes being created, right?
Hence, God is the root of the tree of existence and all that stuff.
Existence is impossible to reason or logically justify. God has no more explanatory power than the universe arbitrarily existing, far less even since the initial state of the universe is far more simple than Yahweh. There is no rational or defensible reason for the existence of reality, it is an unconditional fact that we simply have to accept.
Goddess created God, who's your Mommy?
This question is a failure to understand the eternalness of God, because humans think in causality. There is no "before". God has always been, which boggles the human mind, because it cannot comprehend it.
God cannot be created because God does not exist in space and time unlike the universe.
Space and time are rather properties of the universe, it is illogical to demand something precede space and time.
God did not precede space and did because there is no such thing as before time. God exists outside of both space and time, which is logically necessary in order for him to be able to create it.
Which is what I am saying, the universe does not require anything to precede it. The universe does not need to be created when the rules of the universe do not somehow act on it from outside itself.
If the universe does not need anything to precede in order to create it, you're suggesting that the universe is uncaused. That is not consistent with the rest of reality.
Existence is uncaused and unreasonable, the observable universe's finity is subordinate to the fact of reality.
If existence is unreasonable, why are there fixed physical laws that are unchanging? It was be more unreasonable for the universe to be in a constant state of unpredictable chaos, but it's not.
In a sense, the absurdity is carried over into everything within the observable universe, as it is self-defined and only coherent in respect to itself. Time and space only exist in the manner of objects in the universe relative to each other. In addition, this seems to be apparent much more literally on the quantum level.
>you're suggesting that the universe is uncaused. That is not consistent with the rest of reality
It is not inconsistent with the rest of reality if the rest of reality is assumed to be uncreated. Everything around you is everchanging, but is never being “created” or “destroyed” either. You’re looking for a prime mover, not for a creator, and we’re saying you don’t need a prime mover of things just “are” and by nature of their “being” they simply change.
It is no more unreasonable a take than that of an uncreated creator existing outside of reality, although it is maybe less comforting. But the end result is the same, the outside creator would have had to decide to create our reality at some point in his exterior frame of existence. Which means he either predates it and has his own creator or is himself eternal and chose a point in HIS timeframe to act. ( and he does have a timeframe as he created our reality, requiring an action therefore a change on his part).
>and he does have a timeframe as he created our reality, requiring an action therefore a change on his part
Kabbalah has an interesting take on this, with Yahweh being eternal and unchanging, and rather than doing anything, creation is actually just limited observation of himself. Of course, this is completely contrary to all other Abrahamic including Christian views, and does not really need to be discussed as no one here will proclaim it.
>there is no such thing as before time
But there is. The state before the big bang had no “time” passing. Universal time started with the Big Bang regardless of what occurred before it.
Just like time would stop in case of a big Freeze or at the end of a big crunch.
You cant be omnipotent if something had to create you in the first place so you are already objectively wrong about what God is before even asking the question
Can God create another omnipotent being?
God is eternal and self existent so he has no creator. He was not created.