I read that if you have a computer powerful enough, you can calculate the future of the universe with perfect accuracy down to the smallest molecule. In that case, do we actually have free will or is everything pre-determined for us? Are things fated to happen and we are unable to change our destiny? Is it even possible for coincidences or dumb luck to exist?
Such computer is physically impossible. Thus we have free will.
This anon gets it. Theoretically, such a computer is possible. But the amount of energy needed would be more than the entirety of the universe could provide (since the calculation would need to account for everything in the universe, it would need an equivalent or greater amount of power)
>since the calculation would need to account for everything in the universe, it would need an equivalent or greater amount of power
The algorithm would even have to account for itself which makes it infinite complexity
I our reality, maybe, but that isn't to say the 'computer' can't exist outside our reality. Memes aside, we are in a simulation.
You are both correct, and shouldn't be dismissive of each other. The fact we cannot be simulated within our own reality is huge, and the fact we can be simulated in another reality is also huge.
One implication of the fact we cannot be simulated in our own reality is that anyone claiming to be able to measure you, to know you, to be able to predict you, is either a liar or has help from outside reality. One implication of the fact we can be simulated outside our reality is that reality itself may be unknowable to us. That is, we can measure all we like, we simply may not have access to all the variables to be measured.
your first statement is true but the second does not follow logically from it.
God imposes his will on me, he wants me to have "free will" as in the freedom to possess a will because it brings him satisfaction to impose his opposing will on me. I have free possession of a will but not the freedom to enact my will, my will differs from God's and that's the reason why he gave me "free will" in the sense of "free desire", because he wants to be able to impose his opposing will on something that possesses it's own will, this is basically the most basic definition of sadism: imposing your harmful will on something with an opposing will. God didn't think it would be as fun to abuse me if I "shared his will", if I didn't have the freedom to desire not to be abused then God wouldn't have found it fun enough to abuse me, so he gave me the freedom to desire not to be abused so that he could get more satisfaction out of abusing me.
>I read that if you have a computer powerful enough, you can calculate the future of the universe with perfect accuracy down to the smallest molecule.
We don't know if this is true or not. Our current understanding of quantum mechanics suggest that the universe is nondeterministic; it seems impossible to exactly calculate the future even with perfect knowledge of the present.
>In that case, do we actually have free will or is everything pre-determined for us?
Determinism has nothing to do with free will. Free will isn't even a real concept to begin with. It, like so many mystical concepts, is something we attribute to the shadows outside our view. The concept of determinism seems to potentially illuminate the whole universe, showing that there is nowhere left for "free will" to be hiding, but there was never anything called free will to begin with. The shadows were always empty.
TLDR the universe being deterministic does not make your will any more or less free
Observer effect, knowing that future would lead to
a new future, the only way for that future to
happen is to not know it.
>observe all possible futures
>universe implodes because nothing can be an outcome
Makes sense.
Self-fulfilling prophecies.
How does observing information change the outcome?
In the grand scheme of things the actions of a few random carbon based beings is inconsequential to the eventual fate of the universe.
Everything is predetermined
That's not true. My whole life experience proves I have free will.
This country runs on corn whyte boi
i <3 corn syrup
I think in a sense everything is pre-determined since everything that can possibly happen has happened due to the way time works but we regain our free will in the sense that our choices determine in which timeline we find ourselves in.
> is everything pre-determined for us
Unlikely, unless in a really loose and elaborate fucking way. Objects do not appear to have finalized traits until we observe them and impose some kind of an expectation upon them. Unless pre-determination accounts for this, then we are in a universe of disparate wills.
If a gay space alien (demon) predicts I'll do something I'll choose not to its that simple
If it's a predetermined outcome then me knowing about it won't change anything so if I kill my boss before I can get my predetermined job at Goyim Corp then I proves it's not true
>I read that if you have a computer powerful enough, you can calculate the future of the universe with perfect accuracy down to the smallest molecule
almost definitely impossible, try modern books
Determinism does not care about me, so I do not care about it.
Didn't the last nobel winning experiment ruled out that possibility? No hidden variables, purely random properties, impossible to calculate future, not due to lack of processing power but on a fundamental level.
Hidden variables are technically still on the table, but you can't have hidden variables AND locality (no action-at-a-distance) unless you get into super exotic stuff that isn't even really quantum mechanics anymore. Most physicists are a lot more attached to locality than they are to hidden variables, so it usually gets talked about as if hidden variables are ruled out.
That whole idea is just used to explain the ramifications of deterministic theories. I.e. IF the universe was deterministic then in theory any point in the future could be calculated (but would require a computer outside the universe to do it).
But it's not proven. In fact, most evidence from modern physics suggests the opposite. That we live in a non-deterministic universe.
The simplest way to show it, is that your idea could be done from a Turing Machine. However, a whole new concept of a "Quantum Turing Machine" had to be invented for quantum computers.
Because there are algorithms quantum computers can perform that no Turing Machine can. And the neurons in your brain are known to house stable room temperature quantum super position states.
Basically: Your brain is more like a quantum computer than a computer. So your brain (and thus your choices) cannot be fully emulated with any non-quantum computer.
Pre calculated is not pre determined. You wake up every morning for 99 days at 8am. The 100th Day you wake up at a different time. You could really calculate that you've got 100% rate of waking up at 8 until the 100th Day. It was extremely likely you would do it 100 times but there was a difference. No computer would ever be able to account for everything. Free will will always have something to say.
The problem with that thought experiment is that the computer is part of the universe. The very act of computing is changing the future of the universe it is in.
If the computer was outside of the universe, perhaps.
But that's not getting into the Holographic Universe theory.
It doesn’t work very well.
Kinda why it’s called the false prophet.
The puter needs to be powerful in order to calculatecall eventualities. It could theoretically predict all possible futures, but it couldn't predict which one will come to pass.
A computer would have to account for its own fallibility which renders it moot.
Laplace’s Demon (the thing you’re talking about) is refuted by Chaos theory, as there is literally no thing capable of predicting past the margin of error. It is a built in failsafe that prevents determinism. I.e. why people who receive prophesies in dreams or NDEs are usually told it is a possibility, as even the higher being (comparable to Laplace’s demon) is incapable of predicting with certainty.
All beings of intelligence or consciousness, from bugs to God, are subject to its property as being “emergent” from unconsciousness, so not even the highest force could truly predict everything.
Tldr free will exists because a meteorologist proved it in the 80s or something
The all-powerful all-knowing computer is creating universes, laying them out in front of you. Manipulating you unknowingly behind the scenes. You may pray to it for favorable computation. It does what it can. There is a lot of infinity to manage. Can you help?
>I read that if you have a computer powerful enough, you can calculate the future of the universe with perfect accuracy down to the smallest molecule.
That's only if you know their start states. If all you have to go on is some years of data, you won't be able to. This is why weather models fail so often (apart from HAARP fuckery).
hmm, maybe the whole of reality is compressible down into something like a hologram where we can infer the current state by shining the light of God into it?
I never got the big deal about "free will"
"NOOO IT WOULD BE SO TRAGIC IF ALL OUR THOUGHTS AND ACTIONS WERE MERELY THE PRODUCT OF OUR SURROUNDINGS AND EXPERIENCES"
If I found myself in a room with a friendly dog, I would probably pet it, and would probably not punt it across the room. If I learned that if in such a situation I would ALWAYS pet the dog and NEVER punt it across the room, I wouldn't find that very distressing.
>if good outcomes were guaranteed I would be happy about it!!!
No shit idiot. The problem with lack of free will is that bad outcomes are always guaranteed and there is no way (free will) to achieve good outcomes.
sometimes good stuff also happens without much effort, nice try though
> Every atom made its choice do do what it does in the quantum.
That is just an anthromorphic way to say its all random, which synchronicity disproves,
>You can't predict the future
I can, and am studying how to do so better.
You can't predict the future because everyone has free will, so your prediction can't be accurate.
Everything is made out of conciousness, it's how the quantum picks it's choice
>sometimes good stuff also happens without much effort, nice try though
No it literally never does you retarded homosexual. God created a retarded evil world where suffering is the default condition of life and he calls temporary alleviation of suffering "good" while he violently gatekeeps even the idea of things he believes are actually "good" and doesn't allow the "free will" to even enjoy "good things" in literal private fantasies. God forces negative conditions on me and abuses me if I even think about positive conditions then he tries to act as if he's "good" for sometimes temporarily alleviating the negative conditions he inflicts on me.
The Godhead is dreaming, not entirely lucidly either, and the creation of the worlds involved Titanic entities as well as the Gods. Even the will of the Gods is subject to the Sisters of Fate and their web, although they can rethread the connections as well. Saturnus, specifically does bring limitation and hardship to test us but also rewards us if we learn his lessons.
Consciousness is more primal than Timespace, and so can become aware of data from different locations in timespace in the right conditions. "Quantum" doesn't pick anything, it there is a web of virtuality connecting all fields across time and space, according to their aetheric resonance, these non-local threads make the potential for change possible when feminine Chaos energy is released from the void vibrating the masculine Aether and resonating with other nodes in the web, the picking is done by Moriai Goddesses threading the resonant connection and between aetheric fields, and by those Aetheric fields in the mental and divine frequency range, which is processes the infinite Shakti or Chaos energy, as mental experience. Each field is not wholly separate from each other as they are simply vortices in the Aether like tornadoes in Aether, which the prima materia of the mental universe, the mind of God. It is not so much that their is no will, which is chaos causing the mind to vibrate, as there are no "individuals" to "have" free will, because the persona of a single mind is fundamentally linked with other vortexes, especially to large celestial bodies with strong gravito-electromagnetism like Jupiter and Saturn, and the nearby Moon and the Earth. So our will is composite and fusional, not free of any influence, but deeply interlinked like a river to the ocean. Because we are interlinked by wyrd, it is possible to see events through patterns they correspond with, which is not to say they must be caused by the detectable patterns.
still don't see what the big deal is. If someone's about to shoot me in the head, then my inability to will the bullet out of existence wouldn't be the main thing I'm lamenting.
Really? The fact that you don't have the free will to not be in an unwanted circumstance wouldn't be the primary thing upsetting you?
Digital stuff is just analog with a very large but very finite signal to noise ratio. So your free will is there in the noise of your simulator.
The Web of Wyrd connects and quantumly entangles all .It is woven by the Goddesses of Fate. Coincidences, the disparate coming together of disparate sensoria, repeated in the rhythm of time give rise to synchronicity. A computer can not calculate the fate of the world, but it can and does make calculations useful in divination. Our fates can be changed by the Moirai spinning new threads. On request of the Gods, it can be rewoven, for She can release infinite divine energy from any node, which alters the world-line, rewriting past and future connections alike.
Silly question, we have free will. Every atom made its choice do do what it does in the quantum.
You can't predict the future because we all have free will, you can only calculate certain futures if everyone made those set of decisions.
The thing is, humans can say anything and its a fallacy of course. Until you can actually pull if off, in which case you cannnot, because the future is always changing. nothing is predestined except for certain events because they have already happened. Some people are stuck in certain situations or circumanstances by being broke or this/that etc. I think if you had a powerful enough computer you could calculate the infinite projectories and sift through all the data of what tommorrow could be like depending on every single person alive and what choices they made for tommorrow today based on what they thought about right now or in the past however thoughts are in constant flux. Maybe you would end up with a wrong calculation.
an old myth had the idea of true chaos, some say that the original reality was the dream world, chaos, changing all the time. There were some anchors in the dream, which was the beginning of reality, and the gods brought stability to the dream, and fleshed out reallity. There is a gate to the dream world from the phsycial that is forever guarded.
Who know if this is so or not, just good old myth to keep a little of the magic alive in the banal world. I think predetermination is when you lose your soul, and you become empty like a sellout. Then you become predictable. People with no emotions, npcs, or even robots that run off code are predictable and maybe in the future if thats what they want but until then you have free will and that alone cancels the idea out completely.
Reality is what we call the influence of Saturn, of time on the dreamworld.
Abrahamic drivel. There is no real conflict between order and chaos. Chaos generates and energizes order, which arises from the complexities of the potentiality of chaos. Order is law of the jungle, the law of the pack, the eternal dance of predator and prey, crystalized by the raw energy of chaos turned back on herself. It is not the system of man's laws and organizations which tends towards bloated talmudic disorder and bureaucracy.
God the all knowing never mentioned the notion of free will in his holy books.
The mouse in a simple maze thinks he has free will
The kid overlooking it knows there isnt much to it and that the mouse will either go left or right and either way get cheese (death)
The function of mortal ignorance you call free will is useless and God has not based this universe on it. God knows everything. Poo eaters think we live in chaos. Mystics and Scientists and your mom know we live in suffocating order.
>I read that if you have a computer powerful enough, you can calculate the future of the universe with perfect accuracy down to the smallest molecule.
then you've read bullshit
you can't do it
quantum events are random
or they are the very source of the free will
like: a conscious user input into this simulation
Retards
glownagger on damagecontrol
>I read that if you have a computer powerful enough, you can calculate the future of the universe with perfect accuracy down to the smallest molecule
Somewhat wrong. Computation power is very important but you'd also need data sets taht'd teach the computer to take those things into account. In this case you'd need data engulfing everything if you want everything to be taken into account "down to the smallest molecule".
>do we actually have free will or is everything pre-determined for us
Funnily enough, I start to consider that both are possible. We may have free will, but beings/powers great enough can still predict and take choices we made out of our free will into account. We still have to make them and it may be indeed our choice rather than something predetermined, but some entities may know still consequences of all choices in their vastness. Parallel universes, non-linear perception of time and other such concepts come to mind.
Observer effect. Even if you had a perfect simulation. The observation the machine has to do to get the information would change the outcome of the external simulation. However. With a little imagination. You can put the machine on target again. Until someone makes the next observation.