Exactly lmao. Nobody would drop 60k+ on a bimmer and it had the roadfeel of a miata. People buy these cars for a smooth luxurious ride with some speed on tap.
Inshallah my brother, that's practically minivan territory. Add in a fat African Arab and it will weigh as much as a minivan.
>If you ask LULZers they think a touchscreen and a handful of parking sensors weigh 750lbs
Kinda does, with how they add them in. The screens are huge, their mounts are huge, they need lots of wiring even with high throughput canbus, needs more UI interactivity features, the HVAC since it's attached to UX instead of on its own system, etc. When these cars are stripped down for competition, removing the infotainment and its dependent hardware strips out around 100 pounds if not more. It's not like the old days where people left in their single DIN headunit because it was practically inconsequential. Remove the six gorillion speaker system and its associated hardware and it will start hitting weight loss hyperbole.
Luxury features are really fucking heavy. Funnily enough the segment that has experienced the least amount of bloat even with these features is a minivan due to payload, towing, and max GVWR/GCWR requirements. Family buyers do not prioritize these features nearly as much even on high trims.
Of course I do agree in part, but I also see regulation as adding a lot of the cost consumers need to bear, as well as the inability to make something like an older M2.
My chevy has magride, but honestly I don't get praise it gets.
I am driving a sportier car, but in touring modes. And I'm being knocked around quite a bit, not as a negative just as a fact of the matter. From the way people praised it, I was expecting a lexus quality ride at a minimum, but this feels worse than my old prius,
Nobody said anything about being better or worse. But there's a reason why a luxury car weighs more than a not luxury car. If you care about weight so much and don't care about sound insulation or quality materials then the camaro is fine. It's way faster for the price but that's because the money goes into the engine and literally nothing else. A side effect is reduced weight, or rather not increased weight. A Ford Taurus weighs less than an S Class too.
>they plopped a hideous ipad on the dash and jacked up the price >its a luxury car bro
just admit germans can't into engineering, and need to load their shitboxes full of computerized gadgets if they want to increase performance further. that's the real reason it weighs so much. slapping some leather and an ipad on a dash doesn't increase weight by hundreds of lbs, and BMWs don't even have better sound deadening. just watch the Camaro SS vs M4 review. there's almost no difference at all in road noise between the two interior shots.
>there's almost no difference at all in road noise between the two interior shots.
Unless there's a decibel recorder then you're retarded. A lapel mic isn't going to pick up discernable differences in interior noise. Show me where they use actual sound measuring devices and we'll talk. "But the youtube video sounded about the same" is a dumb thing to say. It's like doing a drag race by running the cars one at a time and saying "they looked like they were about the same"
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
bmw is just super heavy. like I've been parting out e39, there's 10 kilos of tar in every door, seats are probably 30 kilos each.
>aluminum v8 with compact supercharger vs twin turbo inline 6 setup >no über luxury options >Still weighs more despite being simpler in almost every aspect
How does america do it?
what's the """uber luxury options""" in the M2? an ipad wrapped in leather on the dash? also nice to know Europes engines are fucking pigfat boat anchors despite being half the displacement.
12 way seats, driver foot rest, voice activated dual zone, power adjustable headrests, auto dimming rear view mirror, >nice to know Europes engines are fucking pigfat boat anchors
Show me a chevy dohc inline 6 with twin turbos that weighs less than an aluminum small block. Are you that ignorant?
>12 way seats, driver foot rest, voice activated dual zone, power adjustable headrests, auto dimming rear view mirror,
bunch of gimmick shit you'd find in a some shitbox crossover. not particularly luxurious. nor does it add hundreds of lbs of weight. >show me the american engine built like euroshit
the fact that american engines aren't built like euroshit is why they're better. of course if an american company made some euro style boat anchor to derived boost it would be heavy. just look at the GTR's engine. but that's not how americans derive power. they do it better. just like there doesn't exist a european small block.
>there's almost no difference at all in road noise between the two interior shots.
Unless there's a decibel recorder then you're retarded. A lapel mic isn't going to pick up discernable differences in interior noise. Show me where they use actual sound measuring devices and we'll talk. "But the youtube video sounded about the same" is a dumb thing to say. It's like doing a drag race by running the cars one at a time and saying "they looked like they were about the same"
okay, then you prove that the BMW M4 has a quieter interior in your own way, nagger. you're claiming there's a difference, so you prove there is. you can often tell the interior noise of some stripped out shitbox vs a quiet luxury car just from the mic alone.
Heavy sound insulation is thing of the past since newer chink luxo cars have active noise cancellation through speakers so this will probably soon became norm on euro/us cars too.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
Interesting
Haven't used active noise canceling in 15+ years and it was pretty bad back then, hopefully it is better now
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
This is not correct. Active noise canceling only goes so far. Work on one of these cars. They are loaded with insulation, sealing and other sound deadening. Active canceling is just the icing on top.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
ANC cannot handle noise below 120hz well due to the nature of the noise and the amount of power needed to create low/sub frequencies.
So I'm really not looking forward to anything like this becoming common.
>bunch of gimmick shit you'd find in a some shitbox crossover. not particularly luxurious
LMAO the goalpost has been thrown out the window by you saying that. If thats not luxury then what is and show me what the camaro offers that's better. >that's not how americans derive power. they do it better. just like there doesn't exist a european small block.
More cope for the camaro weighing almost 2 tons. Inline 6's are naturally a heavier layout. Stop deflecting and answer the question. You can argue all you want that small blocks are the best engine ever and america is #1 at everything, but inline 6's are objectively a better layout for raw numbers, and at the very least are a plenty competent layout. Equal displacement yields more torque from a straight 6 and is naturally more balanced. Regardless of any of that, it still stands that the camaro could be far better than it was if gm could make it lighter, but for some retarded reason, gm engineers seem to care only about the drivetrain and not making a well sorted car, as they always have. Be it for cutting costs or design philosophy, this has always been the struggle with american manufacturers vs europe and japan, and it will never change as long as american companies care more about money than representing america.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
>shit you can find on shitbox crossovers that cost half the price is luxurious
okay, bro. no wonder Tesla is beating the eurocucks in the luxury car segment. my how the mighty have fallen. >show me what the camaro offers that's better.
better engineering. >the camaro weighing almost 2 tons
two tons for an engine capable of 650 track sustained HP with more than adequate cooling for said track abuse. unlike the BMW, which would weigh even more if it had such features. >Inline 6's are naturally a heavier layout
then stop using such shit engine layouts. even the japs knew they were shit, and abandoned them. inline 6s are for trucks, not sports cars. even BMW ditched the inline six for their fastest race cars like the E46 GTR. its not deflecting. even European V8s are much heavier with such lower displacement. even heavier than american OHC V8s. its just the overly complex way you tards design engines. and you're basically saying "the fact that you don't over engineer everything is not an answer!!!" what answer are you expecting, nagger? even when accounting for the same layout, euro engines are typically heavier. >inline 6's are objectively a better layout for raw numbers
they aren't, even the fastest european hyper cars use V8s, some, based on american style designs like Keonigsegg. >the camaro could be far better than it was if gm could make it lighter,
i don't think you want that. it already BTFO all its rivals as it is. it's punching too far above its weight. it would be unstoppable if it weighed less. Ford is planning on taking on the 911 GT3 with a mustang. can you imagine a lightweight Camaro built like the Mustang GTD?
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
While a Camaro is legit bad ass….. why do Camaro fags not realize that the car has a massive rubber advantage.
The Camaro is an amazing chassis, and mogs cars that cost twice as much and exotics…. But let’s not act like the 1le cars don’t come with tires that are almost comparable with 200 treadwear super tires like the re71r
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
Here's an M4 GTS vs an SS 1LE.
the M4 GTS has better cup tires than the SS 1LE's summer goodyears.
the M4 GTS weighs 3300 lbs vs the Camaro's 3700 lbs.
the Camaro makes 450 HP vs the M4 GTS's 500.
the M4 GTS cost 130k vs the Camaro's 45k.
all that for a 10th of a second. where's the massive rubber advantage?
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
M3 cs is junk. It’s a meme car. Although the cs makes more peak power and torque, there is none of it there in the midrange. The powerband at the torque hit is basically the same. M3/m3 comp/cs
The v8 is just better in this situation. And like I said, the Camaro is an amazing platform.
What lap times did a m3 comp get? I would use a m3 comp to compare with the Camaro as a value indicator. But it’s obvious the Camaro is the better value.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
M3 cs is junk. It’s a meme car. Although the cs makes more peak power and torque, there is none of it there in the midrange. The powerband at the torque hit is basically the same. M3/m3 comp/cs
The v8 is just better in this situation. And like I said, the Camaro is an amazing platform.
What lap times did a m3 comp get? I would use a m3 comp to compare with the Camaro as a value indicator. But it’s obvious the Camaro is the better value.
same deal, here. Camaro's much heavier, has a lower power to weight ratio. the Cayman has the better more expensive cup tires that undoubtedly have more grip.
yet the camaro is still able to beat and only be slightly slower than what should be the better track machine. can you imagine a camaro that weighed less? it would be amazing an unstoppable super car. competing with 911 GT3s. (like that Mustang GTD is already promising to do)
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
>981 GT4
Now compare the manual 982. A PDK version would shit on you even harder.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
Checked. But how much is a gt4?
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
>now compare the car they added more horsepower to, to compete with a car that already had a lower power to weight ratio and is on worse tires
congrats, germany. by throwing enough rubber and power at your already overpriced sports car, you managed to beat a 45k camaro. this doesn't disprove my point at all, however. it just goes to show you how much it takes to beat a car that's just engineered better.
Checked. But how much is a gt4?
162k for the cayman. its exactly 3 times the price of a camaro. absolutely hilarious what it takes to beat that car.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
oink oink
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
entirely due to the new $2200 Cup 2R tires and gutted interior. again, doesn't disprove my point at all.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
>buy top end camaro >can't afford decent tires
checks out
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
the Cup 2R didn't even exist when the ZL1 1LE was being developed. that's how new they are.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
Checked. But how much is a gt4?
>$160k
982 GT4s were $105 - $120k before covid fucked with prices.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
>muh better engineering
Just say you have no clue what you're talking about. There are no luxury features to beat the m2. Why are you so dense? The camaro is not a luxury car >even BMW ditched the inline six for their fastest race cars like the E46 GTR
yeah and toyota went with a 3sgte for the castrol supra. Is the 3sgte better at making power? Go reread again. We're not talking about packaging here. Its not like the camaro has a front mid engine layout. That small block sits halfway across the front axle. An inline 6 naturally makes more torque in a given application and is a competent platform regardless if it weighs an extra 100lbs >
even European V8s are much heavier with such lower displacement. even heavier than american OHC V8s. its just the overly complex way you tards design engines
You have 0 clue what you're talking about and its abundantly clear from mouthing off nothing but what little you know. The average "overcomplicated euro v8" weighs 450lb, maybe 500lbs at the most. Thats within 50lbs of 90% of aluminum small blocks. There is no aluminum 6.0 out there that weighs under 400lbs. A 2v modular weighs 500lbs and a coyote weighs 560lbs. >even the fastest european hyper cars use V8s, some, based on american style designs like Keonigsegg
Then show me all the v8 diesels putting out 2k hp and 3k torque on dynos. Diesels are under much more stress and put out far better numbers than gas, and yet the most common layout is an inline 6. V8s benefit from packaging, but packaging doesn't equal pushing out numbers. Also koenigsegg's "modulars" were created because the company was young and was looking for a decent architecture to create a supercar engine. They weren't shooting for any insane records, and its not like the engine is anything near what a normal modular is equipped with. Most of the internals had been revised or completely changed out to the point it really just shared a bare block to some degree and nothing else.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
>There are no luxury features to beat the m2
none of the shit you listed in the M2 is luxury. its feature creep you can find on shitboxes for half the price. you know what you can't find on shitboxes for half the price? superior engineering. that is a luxury in itself.
yeah and toyota went with a 3sgte for the >castrol supra. Is the 3sgte better at making power?
Kinda, the 3sGTE in the castrol supra was taken out of the Toyota Eagle. they wanted that engine specifically for its insane ability to not only produce power, but sustain it long term. something no 2JZ had ever been documented to do. >The average "overcomplicated euro v8" weighs 450lb
the 4 liter ones do. that's as much as an LS7. which is insane given the LS7 displaces 7 liters. a 5-6 liter euro V8 would be heavier than a 7 liter LS, probably even heavier than a Coyote. never mind the fact that these 4 Liter euro V8s are often accompanied with twin turbos like the Merc ones. >Then show me all the v8 diesels
i already mentioned straight sixes made better truck engines, just not sports car engines. >Also koenigsegg's "modulars" were created because the company was young and was looking for a decent architecture to create a supercar engine
the point is that they clearly wanted to do things the american way, and not the typical euro way of making V8s. the Keonigsegg V8 shares nothing with the Ford engine, but they built it to be quite similar in power delivery characteristics to a Ford engine.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
>its feature creep you can find on shitboxes for half the price. you know what you can't find on shitboxes for half the price? superior engineering. that is a luxury in itself
Thats a lot of cope for not being able to list a single car with those features. If I have a chair as standard equipment, a headrest and footrest are luxury. Its simple as that. >a 5-6 liter euro V8 would be heavier than a 7 liter LS, probably even heavier than a Coyote. never mind the fact that these 4 Liter euro V8s are often accompanied with twin turbos like the Merc ones
An m156 weighs 450lbs, has dohc, and displaces 6.2 liters. Show me the 6.2 dohc v8 made in the US that weighs 450lbs. You keep saying things without backing them up and then circling back to sucking off domestics. Answer the question >the point is that they clearly wanted to do things the american way, and not the typical euro way of making V8s
Complete horseshit. The american way is supercharging with ohv v8s. Ford actually went the european way with the modular when they went with ohc vs pushrod and started caring about advancing their tech. Koenigsegg knew ford had been making them for a while and was one of the only manufacturers that offered something with ohc's that they could equip better dohc on so they could adequately build it for twin turbos. It has nothing to do with the "american way vs european way". You just have a hate boner for europe and mindlessly ride domestics. You are completely ignorant about cars and don't even try to hide it
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
>not being able to list a single car with those features
a Honda CRV has 12 way adjustable seats. driver footrest, and auto dimming rear view mirror. that's two out of the 5 gimmick shit you listed. a BMW M2 has no active parking. a Ford shitbox does. a M2 has no auto pilot of any kind. a Tesla does. an M2 has less impressive luxuries than a fucking ford. imagine if your chair could move you towards the fridge to pick up a beer. more of a luxury than some shit with auto adjusted headrest. >m156 weighs 450lbs
that's its dry weight. a dry weight Coyote weighs 430 lbs. there is no 6.2 Liter DOHC american engine, but a Coyote weighs less than the 4 liter BMW engine in the E92. >The american way is supercharging with ohv v8s.
all american hyper cars use twin turbos, twin turbos are typically used on american super cars and have been since the 80s. supercharging is a muscle car thing. >Ford actually went the european way with the modular
No they didn't. you're making this about OHC vs Pushrods when the OHC ford engine has none of the characteristics of a typical euro V8. its not rev happy, it makes most of its power down low as well. unlike the aforementioned BMW engine. "OHC" isn't "advanced tech". and the way Ford did OHC was arguably less advanced than the way euros did them. go look up the Ford Cammer. it was nothing like Ferrari or British cosworth V8s, it was a lazy set of chains and SOHC slapped on one of their already developed pushrod V8s. the only thing they had in common was a camshaft over the heads. the Ford engine still acted like a muscle car engine, and not like a more high revving peaky euro engine. this is what Keonigsegg wanted. he could've went with a high revving BMW engine instead like Mclaren for the F1. he very obviously wanted to do things the american way.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
>i don't think you want that. it already BTFO all its rivals as it is. it's punching too far above its weight. it would be unstoppable if it weighed less
You say that as if the corvette doesn't exist. Your shameless gm cock sucking aside, I'd've loved nothing more than a cheap domestic sports car that still has room inside while providing reliable power and decent practical options. The camaro would be perfect to me if it could just be lighter but gm has done now just as it has in history in completely cucking itself out of the perfect car. I've come to realize america just doesn't want to make a lightweight sports coupe, and thats just how it is. Everything america makes either needs to weigh at least 3500lbs or have only 2 seats no trunk. We can all ooze about the camaro all we want but that doesn't change the fact that the camaro is heavy and it acts and feels heavy, and there's always going to be more wasted energy than there could be because gm likes everything big
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
American cars *were over weight. Now they are skinny compared to the competition. A Camaro ss 1le is now 100-200lb lighter than a m4.
The only light weight coupe now and days besides Porsche, is a mkv Supra,
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
the only reason the poopra is lightweight is because its based on a roadster and not a coupe version of a sedan like the Camaro and M cars.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
>You say that as if the corvette doesn't exist.
the corvette doesn't use the same platform as the Camaro, so its not the same car. if the CAMARO weighed less, it would be dominant. the corvette obviously isn't showing the same dominance or performance value. the cheapest corvette is more expensive than a V8 camaro, and doesn't punch nearly as high above its weight class, considering its a high end flagship sports car using exotic materials, and the Camaro is more mid-range. the Camaro doesn't even have carbon ceramics as an option, and doesn't get any carbon fiber on even the highest trim.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
If you want a stereotypical euro engine the Camaro can weigh a wee bit over 3,300lbs
large brakes, cooling, reinforced drivetrain components, wider wheeld and tires all add weight
that's why the nismo Z is heavier than the base Z, why the dark horse mustang is heavier than a GT and the M2 is heavier than a RWD M240i
Fucking Kek. Imagine sitting in a board room and being that Nigga klaus who put starter clicking the power point to present how much bmw can save by using a very similar platform as a fucking boat.
The f80, and precious gen m2 comp was peak bmw performance4r00h.
Fucking Kek. Imagine sitting in a board room and being that Nigga klaus who put starter clicking the power point to present how much bmw can save by using a very similar platform as a fucking boat.
The f80, and precious gen m2 comp was peak bmw performance4r00h.
this makes a lot more sense as to why it weighs so much.
just cost cutting bullshit. its like if GM gave up on the corvette platform, and just used a cadillac one, instead. so it weighed nearly 4000 lbs.
nagger, you better check those fucking digits. quads confirm the germans are cheapening out whilst charging you more. can't even offer a bespoke platform.
They were so proud when the f80 came out… to brag about how the newer gen f80 is lighter than the previous gen.
Now they are just putting m badges on everything, not putting attention to materials used to keep the weight down, and just loading them up with necessary junk.
Imagine being the fag in the board room evo who said >ayo Wolfgang, we’re not gonna put a dct in the car any more…. Because a few non car fags said it was rough when taking off from a stop. >the torque converter auto shifts almost as fast
TORQUE
CONVERTER
Those fags just use the auto to save costs. M cars are supposed to be no compromise. Carbon fiber panels, exotic designs like individual TB’s.
All they fucking care about now is putting m badges in every car and charging the accountant bill 20k more for a wheel and accent package.
I saw a fucking m50 or something the other day. I can’t even keep up with the Fuckary going on at bmw, especially the M division.
>M cars are supposed to be no compromise. Carbon fiber panels, exotic designs like individual TB’s
If BMW still did that with the amount of M variatians they have now they would go bankrupt. Back in the day the line up was much more simple with less choices.
The only manufacturers that do what you describe are supercar makes Porsche, Ferrari..etc BMW isn't a supercar manufacturer though, they have always been making mass producted premium shitboxes for the middle/upper middle class, the M division built their legacy, today its not financially viable to continue it just so some autist who wasn't even a customer in the first place, creams his pants over the internet. Same shit is happening with Mercedes and Audi.
>M cars are supposed to be no compromise. Carbon fiber panels, exotic designs like individual TB’s.
Again, the Japs did their equivelant of that in the 80s and 90s as shitbox makers and look where that got them, Nissan went almost bankrupt and had to be saved by Renault, Mitsubishi said fuck cars in general and abandonded everything except making small shitboxes, Toyota now sells mostly hybrid shitboxes..etc you get the picture
Bullshit. Vw gti is a low key performance machine. The car was designed with weight in mind (3150lb), the dct is increadible, and the suspension design is the best I have ever felt on a fwd. I have not driven a type r though
Honda also did a lot for the civic type r compared to a regular civic.
Financially viable is bs. M cars are halo cars as much as i hate that term. Bmw is more concerned with getting the same profit margin on an m3 as they do with a x7.
I will never buy a new bmw. Why the fuck would you not just get a rs3, or rs5? Interior is better, they weigh less, and it seems the guys at the RS department of Audi are doing more for the enthusiast than the homosexuals at M
I will be keeping my stripper/carbon diver/6 speed f80 forever. Fuck your digital dash, fuck your awd, fuck your 26 inch wheels.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
poor cope
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
I’m not coping. New m cars are junk.
[...]
same deal, here. Camaro's much heavier, has a lower power to weight ratio. the Cayman has the better more expensive cup tires that undoubtedly have more grip.
yet the camaro is still able to beat and only be slightly slower than what should be the better track machine. can you imagine a camaro that weighed less? it would be amazing an unstoppable super car. competing with 911 GT3s. (like that Mustang GTD is already promising to do)
Power to weight is not everything. Power band is also very important…. And LS based motor are great, as is the gearing for tracks like leguna or where they do the lightning lap
[...]
same deal, here. Camaro's much heavier, has a lower power to weight ratio. the Cayman has the better more expensive cup tires that undoubtedly have more grip.
yet the camaro is still able to beat and only be slightly slower than what should be the better track machine. can you imagine a camaro that weighed less? it would be amazing an unstoppable super car. competing with 911 GT3s. (like that Mustang GTD is already promising to do)
I hate to be that guy, and while I love setting a good lap, there is also the chassis balance.
GM engineers did some voodoo on suspension design to get amazing levels of mechanical grip…. But I will say, my f80 is so beautifully balanced. You can slide the car around at will. I don’t think the same applies to the alpha platform…. But that is straight cope
I would guarantee the cayman would be way more fun to drive at the limit. But this isn’t figure skating, and we measure cars performance via lap times.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
this is honest to god the most honest response i've seen on LULZ. most posters just react with virtual.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
I am about to buy a boomer tier iknowhatigotsmobile and would never buy one of these Chinese BMW’s.
Actual rich people can buy what they like and not concern themselves with the status rat race
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
>Vw gti is a low key performance machine. The car was designed with weight in mind (3150lb), the dct is increadible, and the suspension design is the best I have ever felt on a fwd. I have not driven a type r though
Then why is the G80 M3 or F90 M5 faster than all the cars in your garage? >the RS department of Audi are doing more for the enthusiast than the homosexuals at M
Oh yeah like what? ditching the DSGs and going ZF 8 speed? dumping V8s and switching to generic V6s? p.s Audis are slower than bimmers except for the R8
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
Because awd and a factory bump in boost pressure/fuel they creates power the car can actually use via x drive. Also tires have gotten better from the f80.
And lol at faster than all the cars in my Garage…. Not at all.
Audi never claimed to be the ultimate driving machine. They always understeered due to the drivetrain.
They have dialed in the awd over the last decade. The rs3 is a monster. The interiors are better.
Buying a 4000lb bmw with a torque converter is gay. I bet you think a m5 is fun around a track as well. Peak m5 has a n/a v8 and a clutch.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
So they can make more profit. Plane and simple.
Worse if all is they claim it’s due to power limits of the dct. Absolute bullshit.
They also claim people complained it can be jerkey when taking off. Yeah fag, it’s a performance car and that’s what you get for not getting a clutch, but still getting a total performance gearbox
The 8 speed downshifts like a power glide. The 8 speed cannot take extended track sessions like a dct can. But 8 speed fan boy naggers only discuss the upshift measurement.
all that autistic shit and you're still slower than the richchad in his X5M. laptimes and speed figures determine if a car is shit. You don't see professional motorsports champions creaming themselves over autistic shit like you on a mongolian basket weaving forum, thats why they're champions, they are care about the right things.
The awd makes a huge difference compared to a f80. HUGE. F80 comp had to get torque taken out of the factory map because the pilot sports can’t handle any more than the competition torque map.
I don’t think the m2 would be close even if it weighed what the last gen weighed (it was also heavy for its size)
Tbh I don’t know why anybody would buy a m2. Just get a Supra. Fuck back seats.
More weight actually helps these new high torque turbo motors. Weight = downforce on the tires which allows more torque to get down. These new motors make fucking torque.
Worse if all is they claim it’s due to power limits of the dct. Absolute bullshit.
They also claim people complained it can be jerkey when taking off. Yeah fag, it’s a performance car and that’s what you get for not getting a clutch, but still getting a total performance gearbox
The 8 speed downshifts like a power glide. The 8 speed cannot take extended track sessions like a dct can. But 8 speed fan boy naggers only discuss the upshift measurement.
>I hear the engine when it accelerated it’s too loud
Ok fag, well add 30 more lbd of sound deadening and tech to noise cancel >the car is too quite, now it doesn’t sound sporty
We will add active sound and run intake piping inside the car >NOOOOOOOOO. THATS FAKE NOISE
holy shit. 90s era jap cars were adequate. You could hold a conversation with passangers at a normal speaking volume.
The ironic shit now is nobody talks to eachother in cars any more. The driver is playing their Spotify playlist, passenger is scrolling through Instagram.
>Looks up F87 >1,495 kg (3,296 lb) standard >1,650 kg (3,640 lb) (Competition DCT)
WHAT THE FUG WHERE DID ALL THAT WEIGHT COME FROM? IS THIS THE POWER OF MEXICANS?
Sound insulation mostly, plus chassis bracing
Exactly lmao. Nobody would drop 60k+ on a bimmer and it had the roadfeel of a miata. People buy these cars for a smooth luxurious ride with some speed on tap.
Fuck outa here with that nonsense anon. A manual f80 without all the gay technology package ect weighs 3400lb
A f80 is much bigger dimensionally
It's lighter and slower and only lighter by a few hundred pounds and slower so I'd take the extra weight and be faster :^)
If you ask LULZers they think a touchscreen and a handful of parking sensors weigh 750lbs
That's because it's true.
Inshallah my brother, that's practically minivan territory. Add in a fat African Arab and it will weigh as much as a minivan.
>If you ask LULZers they think a touchscreen and a handful of parking sensors weigh 750lbs
Kinda does, with how they add them in. The screens are huge, their mounts are huge, they need lots of wiring even with high throughput canbus, needs more UI interactivity features, the HVAC since it's attached to UX instead of on its own system, etc. When these cars are stripped down for competition, removing the infotainment and its dependent hardware strips out around 100 pounds if not more. It's not like the old days where people left in their single DIN headunit because it was practically inconsequential. Remove the six gorillion speaker system and its associated hardware and it will start hitting weight loss hyperbole.
Luxury features are really fucking heavy. Funnily enough the segment that has experienced the least amount of bloat even with these features is a minivan due to payload, towing, and max GVWR/GCWR requirements. Family buyers do not prioritize these features nearly as much even on high trims.
See
It is regulation, gay regulation
It’s not regulation. Vw managed to drop 100lb from the mk7 to mk8 gti,
It’s cost cutting, and lack of effort imo,
Of course I do agree in part, but I also see regulation as adding a lot of the cost consumers need to bear, as well as the inability to make something like an older M2.
Not regulation, bmw saved weight when they went from e90 to f80, and a few other times.
This is simply because of laziness from reusing platforms and lots of stamped steel parts instead of aluminium like Audi has
this has a supercharged V8 making 650 HP with 10 heat exchangers. and only weighs 80 lbs more.
It also rides like shit and the plastic interior starts cracking and squeaking after 40k miles.
You just made that up
>magnetic ride
>riding like shit
this fanfiction is how BMW turks cope with their obese chink machines.
Mashallah, sister!
My chevy has magride, but honestly I don't get praise it gets.
I am driving a sportier car, but in touring modes. And I'm being knocked around quite a bit, not as a negative just as a fact of the matter. From the way people praised it, I was expecting a lexus quality ride at a minimum, but this feels worse than my old prius,
Holy fucking BMW cope. Keep dissing american muscle because you'll never be better. Maybe go be a homosexual and ride a nip/beamer motorcycle instead
Nobody said anything about being better or worse. But there's a reason why a luxury car weighs more than a not luxury car. If you care about weight so much and don't care about sound insulation or quality materials then the camaro is fine. It's way faster for the price but that's because the money goes into the engine and literally nothing else. A side effect is reduced weight, or rather not increased weight. A Ford Taurus weighs less than an S Class too.
>they plopped a hideous ipad on the dash and jacked up the price
>its a luxury car bro
just admit germans can't into engineering, and need to load their shitboxes full of computerized gadgets if they want to increase performance further. that's the real reason it weighs so much. slapping some leather and an ipad on a dash doesn't increase weight by hundreds of lbs, and BMWs don't even have better sound deadening. just watch the Camaro SS vs M4 review. there's almost no difference at all in road noise between the two interior shots.
>there's almost no difference at all in road noise between the two interior shots.
Unless there's a decibel recorder then you're retarded. A lapel mic isn't going to pick up discernable differences in interior noise. Show me where they use actual sound measuring devices and we'll talk. "But the youtube video sounded about the same" is a dumb thing to say. It's like doing a drag race by running the cars one at a time and saying "they looked like they were about the same"
bmw is just super heavy. like I've been parting out e39, there's 10 kilos of tar in every door, seats are probably 30 kilos each.
BMW fags on suicide watch. LMFAOOING at my Challenger being less heavy than this
>aluminum v8 with compact supercharger vs twin turbo inline 6 setup
>no über luxury options
>Still weighs more despite being simpler in almost every aspect
How does america do it?
what's the """uber luxury options""" in the M2? an ipad wrapped in leather on the dash? also nice to know Europes engines are fucking pigfat boat anchors despite being half the displacement.
12 way seats, driver foot rest, voice activated dual zone, power adjustable headrests, auto dimming rear view mirror,
>nice to know Europes engines are fucking pigfat boat anchors
Show me a chevy dohc inline 6 with twin turbos that weighs less than an aluminum small block. Are you that ignorant?
>12 way seats, driver foot rest, voice activated dual zone, power adjustable headrests, auto dimming rear view mirror,
bunch of gimmick shit you'd find in a some shitbox crossover. not particularly luxurious. nor does it add hundreds of lbs of weight.
>show me the american engine built like euroshit
the fact that american engines aren't built like euroshit is why they're better. of course if an american company made some euro style boat anchor to derived boost it would be heavy. just look at the GTR's engine. but that's not how americans derive power. they do it better. just like there doesn't exist a european small block.
okay, then you prove that the BMW M4 has a quieter interior in your own way, nagger. you're claiming there's a difference, so you prove there is. you can often tell the interior noise of some stripped out shitbox vs a quiet luxury car just from the mic alone.
Heavy sound insulation is thing of the past since newer chink luxo cars have active noise cancellation through speakers so this will probably soon became norm on euro/us cars too.
Interesting
Haven't used active noise canceling in 15+ years and it was pretty bad back then, hopefully it is better now
This is not correct. Active noise canceling only goes so far. Work on one of these cars. They are loaded with insulation, sealing and other sound deadening. Active canceling is just the icing on top.
ANC cannot handle noise below 120hz well due to the nature of the noise and the amount of power needed to create low/sub frequencies.
So I'm really not looking forward to anything like this becoming common.
>bunch of gimmick shit you'd find in a some shitbox crossover. not particularly luxurious
LMAO the goalpost has been thrown out the window by you saying that. If thats not luxury then what is and show me what the camaro offers that's better.
>that's not how americans derive power. they do it better. just like there doesn't exist a european small block.
More cope for the camaro weighing almost 2 tons. Inline 6's are naturally a heavier layout. Stop deflecting and answer the question. You can argue all you want that small blocks are the best engine ever and america is #1 at everything, but inline 6's are objectively a better layout for raw numbers, and at the very least are a plenty competent layout. Equal displacement yields more torque from a straight 6 and is naturally more balanced. Regardless of any of that, it still stands that the camaro could be far better than it was if gm could make it lighter, but for some retarded reason, gm engineers seem to care only about the drivetrain and not making a well sorted car, as they always have. Be it for cutting costs or design philosophy, this has always been the struggle with american manufacturers vs europe and japan, and it will never change as long as american companies care more about money than representing america.
>shit you can find on shitbox crossovers that cost half the price is luxurious
okay, bro. no wonder Tesla is beating the eurocucks in the luxury car segment. my how the mighty have fallen.
>show me what the camaro offers that's better.
better engineering.
>the camaro weighing almost 2 tons
two tons for an engine capable of 650 track sustained HP with more than adequate cooling for said track abuse. unlike the BMW, which would weigh even more if it had such features.
>Inline 6's are naturally a heavier layout
then stop using such shit engine layouts. even the japs knew they were shit, and abandoned them. inline 6s are for trucks, not sports cars. even BMW ditched the inline six for their fastest race cars like the E46 GTR. its not deflecting. even European V8s are much heavier with such lower displacement. even heavier than american OHC V8s. its just the overly complex way you tards design engines. and you're basically saying "the fact that you don't over engineer everything is not an answer!!!" what answer are you expecting, nagger? even when accounting for the same layout, euro engines are typically heavier.
>inline 6's are objectively a better layout for raw numbers
they aren't, even the fastest european hyper cars use V8s, some, based on american style designs like Keonigsegg.
>the camaro could be far better than it was if gm could make it lighter,
i don't think you want that. it already BTFO all its rivals as it is. it's punching too far above its weight. it would be unstoppable if it weighed less. Ford is planning on taking on the 911 GT3 with a mustang. can you imagine a lightweight Camaro built like the Mustang GTD?
While a Camaro is legit bad ass….. why do Camaro fags not realize that the car has a massive rubber advantage.
The Camaro is an amazing chassis, and mogs cars that cost twice as much and exotics…. But let’s not act like the 1le cars don’t come with tires that are almost comparable with 200 treadwear super tires like the re71r
Here's an M4 GTS vs an SS 1LE.
the M4 GTS has better cup tires than the SS 1LE's summer goodyears.
the M4 GTS weighs 3300 lbs vs the Camaro's 3700 lbs.
the Camaro makes 450 HP vs the M4 GTS's 500.
the M4 GTS cost 130k vs the Camaro's 45k.
all that for a 10th of a second. where's the massive rubber advantage?
M3 cs is junk. It’s a meme car. Although the cs makes more peak power and torque, there is none of it there in the midrange. The powerband at the torque hit is basically the same. M3/m3 comp/cs
The v8 is just better in this situation. And like I said, the Camaro is an amazing platform.
What lap times did a m3 comp get? I would use a m3 comp to compare with the Camaro as a value indicator. But it’s obvious the Camaro is the better value.
same deal, here. Camaro's much heavier, has a lower power to weight ratio. the Cayman has the better more expensive cup tires that undoubtedly have more grip.
yet the camaro is still able to beat and only be slightly slower than what should be the better track machine. can you imagine a camaro that weighed less? it would be amazing an unstoppable super car. competing with 911 GT3s. (like that Mustang GTD is already promising to do)
>981 GT4
Now compare the manual 982. A PDK version would shit on you even harder.
Checked. But how much is a gt4?
>now compare the car they added more horsepower to, to compete with a car that already had a lower power to weight ratio and is on worse tires
congrats, germany. by throwing enough rubber and power at your already overpriced sports car, you managed to beat a 45k camaro. this doesn't disprove my point at all, however. it just goes to show you how much it takes to beat a car that's just engineered better.
162k for the cayman. its exactly 3 times the price of a camaro. absolutely hilarious what it takes to beat that car.
oink oink
entirely due to the new $2200 Cup 2R tires and gutted interior. again, doesn't disprove my point at all.
>buy top end camaro
>can't afford decent tires
checks out
the Cup 2R didn't even exist when the ZL1 1LE was being developed. that's how new they are.
>$160k
982 GT4s were $105 - $120k before covid fucked with prices.
>muh better engineering
Just say you have no clue what you're talking about. There are no luxury features to beat the m2. Why are you so dense? The camaro is not a luxury car
>even BMW ditched the inline six for their fastest race cars like the E46 GTR
yeah and toyota went with a 3sgte for the castrol supra. Is the 3sgte better at making power? Go reread again. We're not talking about packaging here. Its not like the camaro has a front mid engine layout. That small block sits halfway across the front axle. An inline 6 naturally makes more torque in a given application and is a competent platform regardless if it weighs an extra 100lbs
>
even European V8s are much heavier with such lower displacement. even heavier than american OHC V8s. its just the overly complex way you tards design engines
You have 0 clue what you're talking about and its abundantly clear from mouthing off nothing but what little you know. The average "overcomplicated euro v8" weighs 450lb, maybe 500lbs at the most. Thats within 50lbs of 90% of aluminum small blocks. There is no aluminum 6.0 out there that weighs under 400lbs. A 2v modular weighs 500lbs and a coyote weighs 560lbs.
>even the fastest european hyper cars use V8s, some, based on american style designs like Keonigsegg
Then show me all the v8 diesels putting out 2k hp and 3k torque on dynos. Diesels are under much more stress and put out far better numbers than gas, and yet the most common layout is an inline 6. V8s benefit from packaging, but packaging doesn't equal pushing out numbers. Also koenigsegg's "modulars" were created because the company was young and was looking for a decent architecture to create a supercar engine. They weren't shooting for any insane records, and its not like the engine is anything near what a normal modular is equipped with. Most of the internals had been revised or completely changed out to the point it really just shared a bare block to some degree and nothing else.
>There are no luxury features to beat the m2
none of the shit you listed in the M2 is luxury. its feature creep you can find on shitboxes for half the price. you know what you can't find on shitboxes for half the price? superior engineering. that is a luxury in itself.
yeah and toyota went with a 3sgte for the >castrol supra. Is the 3sgte better at making power?
Kinda, the 3sGTE in the castrol supra was taken out of the Toyota Eagle. they wanted that engine specifically for its insane ability to not only produce power, but sustain it long term. something no 2JZ had ever been documented to do.
>The average "overcomplicated euro v8" weighs 450lb
the 4 liter ones do. that's as much as an LS7. which is insane given the LS7 displaces 7 liters. a 5-6 liter euro V8 would be heavier than a 7 liter LS, probably even heavier than a Coyote. never mind the fact that these 4 Liter euro V8s are often accompanied with twin turbos like the Merc ones.
>Then show me all the v8 diesels
i already mentioned straight sixes made better truck engines, just not sports car engines.
>Also koenigsegg's "modulars" were created because the company was young and was looking for a decent architecture to create a supercar engine
the point is that they clearly wanted to do things the american way, and not the typical euro way of making V8s. the Keonigsegg V8 shares nothing with the Ford engine, but they built it to be quite similar in power delivery characteristics to a Ford engine.
>its feature creep you can find on shitboxes for half the price. you know what you can't find on shitboxes for half the price? superior engineering. that is a luxury in itself
Thats a lot of cope for not being able to list a single car with those features. If I have a chair as standard equipment, a headrest and footrest are luxury. Its simple as that.
>a 5-6 liter euro V8 would be heavier than a 7 liter LS, probably even heavier than a Coyote. never mind the fact that these 4 Liter euro V8s are often accompanied with twin turbos like the Merc ones
An m156 weighs 450lbs, has dohc, and displaces 6.2 liters. Show me the 6.2 dohc v8 made in the US that weighs 450lbs. You keep saying things without backing them up and then circling back to sucking off domestics. Answer the question
>the point is that they clearly wanted to do things the american way, and not the typical euro way of making V8s
Complete horseshit. The american way is supercharging with ohv v8s. Ford actually went the european way with the modular when they went with ohc vs pushrod and started caring about advancing their tech. Koenigsegg knew ford had been making them for a while and was one of the only manufacturers that offered something with ohc's that they could equip better dohc on so they could adequately build it for twin turbos. It has nothing to do with the "american way vs european way". You just have a hate boner for europe and mindlessly ride domestics. You are completely ignorant about cars and don't even try to hide it
>not being able to list a single car with those features
a Honda CRV has 12 way adjustable seats. driver footrest, and auto dimming rear view mirror. that's two out of the 5 gimmick shit you listed. a BMW M2 has no active parking. a Ford shitbox does. a M2 has no auto pilot of any kind. a Tesla does. an M2 has less impressive luxuries than a fucking ford. imagine if your chair could move you towards the fridge to pick up a beer. more of a luxury than some shit with auto adjusted headrest.
>m156 weighs 450lbs
that's its dry weight. a dry weight Coyote weighs 430 lbs. there is no 6.2 Liter DOHC american engine, but a Coyote weighs less than the 4 liter BMW engine in the E92.
>The american way is supercharging with ohv v8s.
all american hyper cars use twin turbos, twin turbos are typically used on american super cars and have been since the 80s. supercharging is a muscle car thing.
>Ford actually went the european way with the modular
No they didn't. you're making this about OHC vs Pushrods when the OHC ford engine has none of the characteristics of a typical euro V8. its not rev happy, it makes most of its power down low as well. unlike the aforementioned BMW engine. "OHC" isn't "advanced tech". and the way Ford did OHC was arguably less advanced than the way euros did them. go look up the Ford Cammer. it was nothing like Ferrari or British cosworth V8s, it was a lazy set of chains and SOHC slapped on one of their already developed pushrod V8s. the only thing they had in common was a camshaft over the heads. the Ford engine still acted like a muscle car engine, and not like a more high revving peaky euro engine. this is what Keonigsegg wanted. he could've went with a high revving BMW engine instead like Mclaren for the F1. he very obviously wanted to do things the american way.
>i don't think you want that. it already BTFO all its rivals as it is. it's punching too far above its weight. it would be unstoppable if it weighed less
You say that as if the corvette doesn't exist. Your shameless gm cock sucking aside, I'd've loved nothing more than a cheap domestic sports car that still has room inside while providing reliable power and decent practical options. The camaro would be perfect to me if it could just be lighter but gm has done now just as it has in history in completely cucking itself out of the perfect car. I've come to realize america just doesn't want to make a lightweight sports coupe, and thats just how it is. Everything america makes either needs to weigh at least 3500lbs or have only 2 seats no trunk. We can all ooze about the camaro all we want but that doesn't change the fact that the camaro is heavy and it acts and feels heavy, and there's always going to be more wasted energy than there could be because gm likes everything big
American cars *were over weight. Now they are skinny compared to the competition. A Camaro ss 1le is now 100-200lb lighter than a m4.
The only light weight coupe now and days besides Porsche, is a mkv Supra,
the only reason the poopra is lightweight is because its based on a roadster and not a coupe version of a sedan like the Camaro and M cars.
>You say that as if the corvette doesn't exist.
the corvette doesn't use the same platform as the Camaro, so its not the same car. if the CAMARO weighed less, it would be dominant. the corvette obviously isn't showing the same dominance or performance value. the cheapest corvette is more expensive than a V8 camaro, and doesn't punch nearly as high above its weight class, considering its a high end flagship sports car using exotic materials, and the Camaro is more mid-range. the Camaro doesn't even have carbon ceramics as an option, and doesn't get any carbon fiber on even the highest trim.
If you want a stereotypical euro engine the Camaro can weigh a wee bit over 3,300lbs
large brakes, cooling, reinforced drivetrain components, wider wheeld and tires all add weight
that's why the nismo Z is heavier than the base Z, why the dark horse mustang is heavier than a GT and the M2 is heavier than a RWD M240i
We know that anon. A g80 with awd that is a fucking boat, with huge wheels ect is not that far off the tiny m2.
a very comfy boat with decent highway mpg, you don't buy these cars for sport, just luxury.
>t. genesis owner
Picrel was some parking lot hit and run idiot, insurance covered the damage.
The current clientele of BMW are turks and chinks. Which do not give a damn about White man's concept such as handling and lightness.
It's cost cutting
It doesn't have any of the lightweight components of the 3/4/5 it's just a steel unibody
BMW uses the same platform for the 2 series as the 7 series
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_CLAR_platform
Fucking Kek. Imagine sitting in a board room and being that Nigga klaus who put starter clicking the power point to present how much bmw can save by using a very similar platform as a fucking boat.
The f80, and precious gen m2 comp was peak bmw performance4r00h.
this makes a lot more sense as to why it weighs so much.
just cost cutting bullshit. its like if GM gave up on the corvette platform, and just used a cadillac one, instead. so it weighed nearly 4000 lbs.
embarrassing.
nagger, you better check those fucking digits. quads confirm the germans are cheapening out whilst charging you more. can't even offer a bespoke platform.
They were so proud when the f80 came out… to brag about how the newer gen f80 is lighter than the previous gen.
Now they are just putting m badges on everything, not putting attention to materials used to keep the weight down, and just loading them up with necessary junk.
Imagine being the fag in the board room evo who said
>ayo Wolfgang, we’re not gonna put a dct in the car any more…. Because a few non car fags said it was rough when taking off from a stop.
>the torque converter auto shifts almost as fast
TORQUE
CONVERTER
Those fags just use the auto to save costs. M cars are supposed to be no compromise. Carbon fiber panels, exotic designs like individual TB’s.
All they fucking care about now is putting m badges in every car and charging the accountant bill 20k more for a wheel and accent package.
I saw a fucking m50 or something the other day. I can’t even keep up with the Fuckary going on at bmw, especially the M division.
>M cars are supposed to be no compromise. Carbon fiber panels, exotic designs like individual TB’s
If BMW still did that with the amount of M variatians they have now they would go bankrupt. Back in the day the line up was much more simple with less choices.
The only manufacturers that do what you describe are supercar makes Porsche, Ferrari..etc BMW isn't a supercar manufacturer though, they have always been making mass producted premium shitboxes for the middle/upper middle class, the M division built their legacy, today its not financially viable to continue it just so some autist who wasn't even a customer in the first place, creams his pants over the internet. Same shit is happening with Mercedes and Audi.
>M cars are supposed to be no compromise. Carbon fiber panels, exotic designs like individual TB’s.
Again, the Japs did their equivelant of that in the 80s and 90s as shitbox makers and look where that got them, Nissan went almost bankrupt and had to be saved by Renault, Mitsubishi said fuck cars in general and abandonded everything except making small shitboxes, Toyota now sells mostly hybrid shitboxes..etc you get the picture
Bullshit. Vw gti is a low key performance machine. The car was designed with weight in mind (3150lb), the dct is increadible, and the suspension design is the best I have ever felt on a fwd. I have not driven a type r though
Honda also did a lot for the civic type r compared to a regular civic.
Financially viable is bs. M cars are halo cars as much as i hate that term. Bmw is more concerned with getting the same profit margin on an m3 as they do with a x7.
I will never buy a new bmw. Why the fuck would you not just get a rs3, or rs5? Interior is better, they weigh less, and it seems the guys at the RS department of Audi are doing more for the enthusiast than the homosexuals at M
I will be keeping my stripper/carbon diver/6 speed f80 forever. Fuck your digital dash, fuck your awd, fuck your 26 inch wheels.
poor cope
I’m not coping. New m cars are junk.
Power to weight is not everything. Power band is also very important…. And LS based motor are great, as is the gearing for tracks like leguna or where they do the lightning lap
I hate to be that guy, and while I love setting a good lap, there is also the chassis balance.
GM engineers did some voodoo on suspension design to get amazing levels of mechanical grip…. But I will say, my f80 is so beautifully balanced. You can slide the car around at will. I don’t think the same applies to the alpha platform…. But that is straight cope
I would guarantee the cayman would be way more fun to drive at the limit. But this isn’t figure skating, and we measure cars performance via lap times.
this is honest to god the most honest response i've seen on LULZ. most posters just react with virtual.
I am about to buy a boomer tier iknowhatigotsmobile and would never buy one of these Chinese BMW’s.
Actual rich people can buy what they like and not concern themselves with the status rat race
>Vw gti is a low key performance machine. The car was designed with weight in mind (3150lb), the dct is increadible, and the suspension design is the best I have ever felt on a fwd. I have not driven a type r though
Then why is the G80 M3 or F90 M5 faster than all the cars in your garage?
>the RS department of Audi are doing more for the enthusiast than the homosexuals at M
Oh yeah like what? ditching the DSGs and going ZF 8 speed? dumping V8s and switching to generic V6s? p.s Audis are slower than bimmers except for the R8
Because awd and a factory bump in boost pressure/fuel they creates power the car can actually use via x drive. Also tires have gotten better from the f80.
And lol at faster than all the cars in my Garage…. Not at all.
Audi never claimed to be the ultimate driving machine. They always understeered due to the drivetrain.
They have dialed in the awd over the last decade. The rs3 is a monster. The interiors are better.
Buying a 4000lb bmw with a torque converter is gay. I bet you think a m5 is fun around a track as well. Peak m5 has a n/a v8 and a clutch.
all that autistic shit and you're still slower than the richchad in his X5M. laptimes and speed figures determine if a car is shit. You don't see professional motorsports champions creaming themselves over autistic shit like you on a mongolian basket weaving forum, thats why they're champions, they are care about the right things.
>Toyota Hilux Pick UP S-LN106 Hilux Pick UP S-LN106 weights 1,570 kg
Terrorist double cab diesel hilux with solid axles is 3460 lbs
I honestly think they were afraid it would compete with the M3.
The awd makes a huge difference compared to a f80. HUGE. F80 comp had to get torque taken out of the factory map because the pilot sports can’t handle any more than the competition torque map.
I don’t think the m2 would be close even if it weighed what the last gen weighed (it was also heavy for its size)
Tbh I don’t know why anybody would buy a m2. Just get a Supra. Fuck back seats.
the power of German engineering
>weighs 3814lbs
>somehow feels lighter
>still much faster than a miata
I don't see the problem tbh
Yessir
>2 seats
>4 thousand pounds in normal conditions
>3,637 pounds without the American driver
nothin personal.
Garbage.
RWD Audi R8 weighs 3500 lbs and can't even launch under 3 seconds despite having 70 more HP.
>German engineering
0-60 is meme bullshit
More weight actually helps these new high torque turbo motors. Weight = downforce on the tires which allows more torque to get down. These new motors make fucking torque.
>weighs more than an RS5
Quattro chads. Another decade of dominance awaits
>weighs more than a V6 challenger
It's on the same platform as the M4, it's just how much it weighs
> Changing the auto from a dual clutch to a slushbox
Why?
So they can make more profit. Plane and simple.
Worse if all is they claim it’s due to power limits of the dct. Absolute bullshit.
They also claim people complained it can be jerkey when taking off. Yeah fag, it’s a performance car and that’s what you get for not getting a clutch, but still getting a total performance gearbox
The 8 speed downshifts like a power glide. The 8 speed cannot take extended track sessions like a dct can. But 8 speed fan boy naggers only discuss the upshift measurement.
Omg I can hear noises from outside my car.
>I hear the engine when it accelerated it’s too loud
Ok fag, well add 30 more lbd of sound deadening and tech to noise cancel
>the car is too quite, now it doesn’t sound sporty
We will add active sound and run intake piping inside the car
>NOOOOOOOOO. THATS FAKE NOISE
holy shit. 90s era jap cars were adequate. You could hold a conversation with passangers at a normal speaking volume.
The ironic shit now is nobody talks to eachother in cars any more. The driver is playing their Spotify playlist, passenger is scrolling through Instagram.
This world is clown world.
>Looks up F87
>1,495 kg (3,296 lb) standard
>1,650 kg (3,640 lb) (Competition DCT)
WHAT THE FUG WHERE DID ALL THAT WEIGHT COME FROM? IS THIS THE POWER OF MEXICANS?