How the fuck do you live without any sense of spirituality? Seriously, how does everything not seem vain and bleak to true atheists? Look, I still have doubts about the nature of what I believe in, but I still try to live out my religion to the best of my ability because it is actually a really helpful lens to look at the world through, and at the same time I can respect and understand other people's religions/spiritualities. Most atheists I meet (in the US at least) seem to think all religion is like Fundamentalist Evangelicalism or colonial type Puritanism, but there are deeper psychological implications of religion, and this may sound perennial but fuck it I'll just say it, there seem to be a lot of "psychological" truths in many religions. I'm not trying to reduce religion to only that like some Jungian because obviously there are still metaphysical claims being made but perhaps the psychological world is the metaphysical world. There's just a feeling from all the metaphors and analogies that really do seem true and give a sense of fulfilment. They have to be true, in a way. Who knows how much the metaphysical world can effect the physical world. In antiquity it wasn't really understood how these two were separate, they were often melded together. As we progressed and became more empirical I think we threw the baby out with the bathwater. It's good not to be overly superstitious or magical in thinking, yet at the same time there really does appear to be a higher metaphysical realm, and it seems embedded within our mind in a Platonist sort of way. I'm just not convinced by materialism or the logical ends of empiricism. Sorry, I know that ended up being a ramble but I just wanted to see what you guys think.
How the fuck do you live without any sense of spirituality?
Falling into your wing while paragliding is called 'gift wrapping' and turns you into a dirt torpedo pic.twitter.com/oQFKsVISkI— Mental Videos (@MentalVids) March 15, 2023
>How the fuck do you live without any sense of spirituality?
Many of them don't really. They're dead men walking, androids made of flesh who can never rise to the spiritual nor want to.
> dead men
Says the lifeless golem whose existence is believed to be based solely on praising one dude in the clouds and nothing more for all of eternity
Praising the LORD is the ultimate pleasure and the only path of righteousness to Salvation
JESUS IS KING
Gaslighting yourself into loving someone so they don't torture you for eternity
> dead, empty eyes
Can't make this shit up
Christcuckery is sanitization of the spirit, to be made docile and obedient, with a negated ego robbed of your hope over a false promise of eternal """bliss""" and the threat of eternal torture along with a scapegoat so to disregard the opposition as "evil" and "damned".
There is no spiritual growth through this mental cancer.
The term "Slave Morality" really is fitting.
for once OP is not a fag. you are just right, no more no less. congrats anon
For me, the possibility (or, rather, probability: see Matthew 7:13-14) of eternal torture in the afterlife is much more depressing and horrifying than the most nihilistic version of atheism out there. Plus, I haven't found convincing evidence in favour of Christianity being true. Quite the opposite actually: the more I look into their scripture and theology the more contradictory it all seems to me. So I figured that if it's not supported by the facts, nor it is going to make me feel better, then I have literally no reason to believe in it.
1. Christians have different interpretations of hell
2. Not all Christians read the Bible literally
3. You don't have to practice Christianity there are other options
At best you should just call yourself an agnostic. That's the most "logical" route to take.
>1. Christians have different interpretations of hell
While the Bible is ambiguous in many respects, I think that the notion of Hell as "eternal conscious torment" is the one with more scriptural support. Still, rejecting the Bible altogether solves the problem of having to worry about whether or not my interpretation of hell is the correct one.
>3. You don't have to practice Christianity there are other options
I haven't found any of the other religious traditions to be convincing and/or psychologically satisfying.
>While the Bible is ambiguous in many respects, I think that the notion of Hell as "eternal conscious torment" is the one with more scriptural support. Still, rejecting the Bible altogether solves the problem of having to worry about whether or not my interpretation of hell is the correct one.
Well again, even if this is true, not all Christians read the Bible literally, and are open to development in thought regarding these subjects, not in a relativist type of way, but by deeper spiritual growth or understanding. There has historically been a distinction between esotericism and exotericism in not just Christianity but in many religions.
>I haven't found any of the other religious traditions to be convincing and/or psychologically satisfying.
Not even Buddhism?
>Not even Buddhism?
Naraka doesn't sound much better than the Christian hell. Plus, I happen to like pleasure and desires.
>not all Christians read the Bible literally, and are open to development in thought regarding these subjects, not in a relativist type of way, but by deeper spiritual growth or understanding.
If you don't really believe your own bullshit and your religious beliefs change with the fucking wind, what's the god damn point
Well Christianity wants you to be poor, servile and pacifist to the point where they let your enemies even kill you.
I don't like that. But if there's a life lesson book well there's no other like it. I think.
Maybe Jesus knew his demands were to great. But you have to meet him half way or something.
Just because you don't read the Bible literally doesn't mean you don't believe it, are you retarded? I bet you are a half catechized Ameritard who has only ever been exposed to Evangelical Protestantism.
Agnosticism is the least logical route you can take. Even atheism makes more sense.
What convincing evidence do you have that your religious beliefs are true?
They're NPCs. They "live" by consooming.
Because a being of spirituality is not an intrinsic part of our human conscious. We have the capacity and inclination to, but is something you gotta question in yourself in your life and develop. Like we all need to learn to walk and talk, we need to learn to think beyond our mere bare necessities.
Nice digits. Your post is on the right track but I think it'd be better to say that spiritually IS an intrinsic part of us, just that its a potential that needs to be actualized.
Fair enough, maybe it starts at a basic level of understanding but it develops over time. Language, traditions, family core values, etc.
Everything brings and develop our spirituality, and maybe the lack of our connection to these may respond the primary question in the post.
May sound cliché, but the path of a society and it's presence makes the spirituality of people develop or being unhinged, with equal part of the response of the human being in trying to want to discover their own truth or avoid asking altogether.
>How the fuck do you live without any sense of spirituality?
By not being over-introspective when I feel no need to.
I've got my family. I've got nature.
I don't need to grasp for more constantly or try to over-analyze why these things make me feel the way they do.
I don't understand people like you who need to and I don't want to.
Well it's like in cooking, you something want something sour and sometimes you want something sweet.
One day you may wake up asking yourself why you ever get up, and in the next day you wake up and start your daily return without a thought.
Depends on day, time, and spaces and it's alright not thinking about it, but sometimes it would be nice to ask about ourselves and our motifs.
I don’t know what to tell you man.
I don’t believe in gods but when I did, good times with people I love and a beautiful nature scene have always been better than church.
I guess you could say I get my spirituality from love and nature, I just don’t believe in gods.
I am an atheist. Living without spirituality is impossible it's human nature to partake in ritual I just follow my own rituals. The Greeks really understood this to quote Slavo Zizek "The Greeks you see *spsht* they were not stupid *spsht* they did not really *spsht* believe that if you *spsht* climbed mount Olympus you *spsht* would see Zeus and Aphrodite *spsht* fucking or something *spsht*"
>"The Greeks you see *spsht* they were not stupid *spsht* they did not really *spsht* believe that if you *spsht* climbed mount Olympus you *spsht* would see Zeus and Aphrodite *spsht* fucking or something *spsht*"
Retarded apologia invented by Max Müller in the 19th century. Ancient Greeks performed sacrifices to the gods and made extremely important decisions based on things like hepatoscopy and consulting with oracles who were believed to be in communication with the gods.
and who said they don't have their religions?
what are those cults of consumerism, sex, entertainment, career, politics? there are symbolism everywhere
also, don't mix atheism with materialism, both buddhism and taoism for example are atheists but completely rejects materialism and nihilism
buddhism goes even a step further and rejects metaphysics altogether, there's no 'metaphysical world', there's just this reality which you have to face it.
An ancient verse ascribed to the Buddha in the Questions of King Milinda says:
Not far from here do you need to look!
Highest existence—what can it avail?
Here in this present aggregate,
In your own body overcome the world!
belief in paranormal shit, ghosts, demons, gods etc. doesn't really factor in to how I do anything
That doesn't equate with religion.
religion is inherently paranormal, including all the main characters, their origin stories and belief in the afterlife
Okay retard lol
Remember that Santa won't bring you presents if you don't have faith in him
I come from a very Catholic background. If you are very very Catholic, things look very very bleak. Real true Catholics know that everyone they see is going to Hell, up to and including themselves. Its so awful and so dark that yes agnosticism or whatever looks relaxing by comparison.
Agnostic Atheist here. I don't believe in a spiritual world or that an afterlife exists. I do like history, culture, nature, science and technology and I do become melancholic while thinking or feeling the measure of all things. I understand this "Sehnsucht" of religious people for eternity yet I'm not convinced of their claims.
Because there are loads of old texts like this:
(Fragment form 3rd chapter of Ge Hongs Baopuzi from 4th century AD)
"If we say that there are no immortals in the world, then will it not turn out that we will reject what was written down by wise people, of whom there are at least a thousand, their names and surnames are known, and they have studied all beginnings and ends? Were they just empty speeches?! But if we say that they were endowed with a special pneuma and had a special nature, then I remind you: they are said to have reached their state through training and taking drugs, and not as a result of the possession of some innate knowledge.
If, however, one asserts that the art of the Tao cannot be learned, then I will recall deeds that have been unconditionally attested and have taken place, such as changing the body and appearance, swallowing knives, breathing out fire, the ability not to cast shadows, summoning clouds and clouds, conjuring snakes, bewitching fish and tortoises, liquefying thirty-six kinds of minerals, liquefying jade into a paste, liquefying gold, walking on water as if on dry land, walking on knife blades without wounding the legs, creating illusions and mirages—more than nine hundred such things. All of them can be learned, why can't only one art of gaining the state of immortality be learned?"
The english is a bit broken because I had to google translate Torchinovs russian translation, I had an epub of a lower quality translation on my previous hard drive but it broke and I couldn't be bothered to take the time to find a translation into english.
People write nonsense in wikipedia and in various articles, but the treatises all say more or less the same thing, though they obfuscate a lot, terminology varies etc.
It’s not just a simple decision to believe in religion or not to believe. You can’t just decide to believe.
Uh yes you can.
i've known a couple girls who "decided to believe" all of a sudden
I've always been a Gnostic Atheist, I've never felt the presence of a higher power and don't understand why you would want one anyways.
How do you deal with Descartes argument of the impossibility to truly know anything expect one's own consciousness? I don't believe in a God or spirits as well, the issue is that too truly know you must have been revealed that knowledge and not just deducted it from logic, knowledge and arguments.
This is true. I have experienced this. It is unexplainable
Without any revelation you simply have to assume empiricism and naturalism are true and your senses and measurements are at least relatively accurate. You could of course assume that your senses are inaccurate and lying to you, but that would drive you insane. Basically your personal philosophy should "just work," if your senses can get you through the day without dying then you're fine.
It's easy to be spiritual when your life is fair but if you perceive it's unfair well you start to lose it.
I mean I'm in a situation right now where I'm pretty comfy but I wasn't comfy for the longest time.
It's the opposite, spirituality brings comfort. Not only this but you can have your spirituality participate in your hardships, like when Christians offer up their suffering as a sacrifice.
Your understanding of 'spirituality' is superficial and nondefined
Why are you even asking this question
I got deep into this stuff as a teenager and young adult
Once I got the message, I hung up the phone
Now I live my life
Holy shit so many seething reddit atheists in this thread. Lol nice OP, look how mad you made them.
"Spirituality" is just a strong emotional reaction to the esoteric and supernatural. I'm sorry you're too brown or feminine to not have your mind clouded by emotion.
Men are half beast and half god. This is the curse we are all stricken with.
Meaningless non sequitur
Well maybe you don't want to get tricked so you put up a defence. But history shows that Christianity is completely harmless.
>But history shows that Christianity is completely harmless.
How on earth do you type this out on a fucking history board?
Um well well we got the bible we were meant to get... Maybe there were some corrections along the way who knows. I don't know any passage that says not to charge interest...
>But history shows that Christianity is completely harmless.
What history have you been reading?
>Bartolomé de Las Casas later attributed the following speech to Hatuey which was addressed against Christianity. He showed the Taíno of Caobana a basket of gold and israeliteels, saying:
>Here is the God the Spaniards worship. For these they fight and kill; for these they persecute us and that is why we have to throw them into the sea... They tell us, these tyrants, that they adore a God of peace and equality, and yet they usurp our land and make us their slaves. They speak to us of an immortal soul and of their eternal rewards and punishments, and yet they rob our belongings, seduce our women, violate our daughters. Incapable of matching us in valor, these cowards cover themselves with iron that our weapons cannot break...
>The Taíno chiefs in Cuba did not respond to Hatuey's message, and few joined him to fight. Hatuey resorted to guerrilla tactics against the Spaniards, and was able to confine them for a time. He and his fighters were able to kill at least eight Spanish soldiers. Eventually, using mastiffs and torturing the Native people for information, the Spaniards succeeded in capturing him. On February 2, 1512, he was tied to a stake and burned alive at Yara, near the present-day City of Bayamo.
>Before he was burned, a priest asked Hatuey if he would accept Jesus and go to heaven. Las Casas recalled the reaction of the chief:
>[Hatuey], thinking a little, asked the religious man if Spaniards went to heaven. The religious man answered yes... The chief then said without further thought that he did not want to go there but to hell so as not to be where they were and where he would not see such cruel people. This is the name and honor that God and our faith have earned.
Where in the Bible does it say that men should seduce women, rape, and steal?
He hates the Spanish. He merely associated God with the Spanish, but God will reject anyone who refjects him.
If there is something beyond the material then I have no knowledge of what its nature is. This really is the difference, I'll admit there are things I don't know while "spiritual" people make shit up and then demand people accept these baseless claims as fact.
>life has no meaning unless you believe in talking snakes, virgin births and magic israelites.
Things felt very non-spiritual to me for a long time until I started meditating for several hours a day for a few days a week.
I will warn you that demons can attack you and make you think bad thoughts if you don't pay attention to what you're doing.
You need to be admitted into a psychward.
>DUDE WHAT ABOUT MEANING
>I made my own
>NOOOOO THATS NOT RIGHT YOU DIDNT STOP IT STOP IT STOP IT
>How do you know?
>I made it up
>Oh okay that's valid, you do you
>Meaning is mathematical
Thanks for playing and losing like always, buddy
>mathematics has no meaning
swing and a miss
I just watch old cowboy movies and stuff
I don't really believe in god as described by any major religion, I don't believe in other superstitious things like reincarnation. I am not a fedora tipping atheist, or try not to be, I just haven't seen any compelling evidence. I am interested in philosophy related to consciousness, but it is all very mysterious and one can only speculate on it.
I am pretty right wing and conservative, modern society is a dead end while religious people have a passion for life, they have families, they have ideals beyond the dopamine coom. I am awed by cathedrals and classical music and so on, though this is probably due to my catholic upbringing. Emotionally I am inclined towards "spirituality", but my rational mind could never accept mythology as literal fact.
Jesus probably existed, his story fits what we would expect of Rome and Judaea at the time, he must have had charisma and new ideas to gain such a dedicated following, but did he turn water into wine or walk on water? Doubt it. The bible describes him healing a centurion's servant and being given "vinegar" via a sponge, Posca was a vinegary drink popular among Roman legionaries and he might have been trying to quench his thirst rather than mock his thirst with pure vinegar. His body was then laid to rest by Joseph of Arimethea who was sympathetic to Jesus also. He was not resurrected, he may have simply survived the crucifixion.
Jesus gave himself up to authorities so that his followers would not be targeted, he predicted Peter would deny association with Jesus to save his neck. His followers were no doubt grateful for his self-sacrifice but somewhere along the line this was conflated with him being literally god and dying to "save us" from our sins.
>I am pretty right wing and conservative
Vulgar materialism as it evolved from empiricism forward really isn't the same materialism as defined by Marxists, which looks at complex social situations and tries to find an explanation that is nonetheless non-reductive (rather its dialectical). One can be spiritual and a dialectical materialist at the same time and look at them as seperate domains that talk with each other. The issue at the heart of modern spiritualism is its contention with organized instutional religion, and that critique comes from the side of spirituality itself rather than just reductive materialism that precludes any spirituality at all.
When it comes down to the science vs religion debate, it really is an issue on how science was popularized and made understood in the 20th century, that is as a new religion, but science rather is informed by it and is a new cosmology that should suplant our knowledge not tear down the question of faith, which is a whole other abstract question about mans being and place in the cosmos.