AGP/HSTS are archaic psyop terms used by tourists like and
I personally am a based and fempilled hsts lesbian
. The only real trans people were transmeds and we're being slowly pushed out of the community by people who have basically solidified the "trans is a choice" thing into the public paradigm for decades now. Come the next 10 years there will likely be a mass genocide that proves this correct.
insanely based post. absolutely. i agree that within the next 10 years pushback is gonna be so hard that transgenderism will die and everyone without dysphoria will detroon, but i hope after a brief period of chaos the transsexuals will be able to recover.
While I find transmed people broadly correct (why WOULD anyone transition without dysphoria), I also think they're extremely annoying and aren't actually focused on anything that would advance binary trans rights (such as pushing for universal healthcare in the US), just arguing with theyfab retards on Twitter.
However, you are correct that AGP/HSTS is largely a phenomenon pushed by Redditors and Twitter morons on this site.
I think I agree with this person.
The first time I really came out to anyone it was to my first girlfriend, and I was so terrified to. Absolutely terrified. But she was so kind and understanding about it, and shockingly, it actually made her like me even more. When I told her about the idea of "AGP", and how it makes me feel like I'm not a real woman and how I feel like I'm just some awful pervert who doesn't deserve to be treated as a woman because of it, she told me I was wrong. She said she understood completely, and didn't even think it was weird at all. She even said that she could relate to the kinds of feelings I was describing, and said that she thinks a lot of or even most cis girls feel that way too sometimes. She even said that she had masturbated looking at herself in the mirror a couple times. I was really shocked to hear all of that, but it was really, really reassuring, and made me feel a lot less bad about myself. Just wanted to share that with all of you. Even if you are "agp", maybe don't be so harsh on yourself.
All this talk about those new brainscan studies might make the whole theory untenable anywya but no I never really believed in it. I'm sure they are real phenomena that can describe certain traits or collections of traits in certain people, but as the only two reasons anyone would transition it's pretty garbage.
Doesn't prevent me from being brainwormed about it tho but that's another thing
idk if brain scans are really reliable, and I'm always paranoid that a doctor or scientist with a hidden agenda could be playing with the MRI settings to get the results he wants (most of modern "science" is really just conclusion shopping for big capital)
re OP probably not, but there's an element of truth in there - there tend to be two types of people that transition - those with agp introvert computer/art personalities and hsts extrovert straight personalities
no how do you deal with not believing in the brain scans? now that im confronted with the possibility my brain is like that of a mans i feel like im going to fucking puke and i dont know if ill be able to live with it if its true
oh that lmfao
yeah it was from one pseudoscientific looking article. it wasn't verified.
irregardless, it's not going to look like that of a MAN. Hrt does do shit to your brain too
>now that im confronted with the possibility my brain is like that of a mans
Lol what's changed? You're the same person since you read that post. These are just words, you're still the same person.
Like half do and half don't. But the half who don't don't understand that by using it in a joking way they are introducing and reinforcing it to people and its really not worth it
AGP is fact indeed, but HSTS is not, there is no logical process to explain the link of it with transsexualism other than the higher incidence of AGP found in transsexuals and it doesn't happen exclusively in males
>my preferred conclusion is scientific fact >doesn’t even post any legitimate scientific research, just a passage from some rapehon’s book that reads more like her projecting her own feelings onto other trannies
Wow, really bought into the malebrain vs fembrain meme huh?
I wish I were linear tho, I can't even do my chores one at a time, much less in a causal order. If I weren't so chaotic maybe I'd be able to get stuff done like a normal person
blanchard is a stupid homosexual. the agp/hsts dichotomy only works in that most trannies roughly fall into one of the other just based on the stereotypes of both. also for as much shit as agps get, they’re significantly more fun to be around than hsts tbh
Ok let me ask the people here what I have if they believe in it. I'm demisexual so I only feel attraction to guys I romantically like and am In a relationship with first. I don't get attracted to the idea of having a dick or vagina. Though I would want to have a vagina out of the two cause the dick just looks like playdoo strapped on my crotch. I don't really like thinking about myself during sex and just like to focus on my partner (I don't think of myself in fantasies). I was with my partner pretrasition and I don't care how he thinks about me during sex, I just like the idea he's getting off and feeling good from what I'm doing. Once again no casual attraction, no porn, unless somehow it looks like my partner close enough. I wish my boobs were bigger but only cause small bra's are annoying as shit to deal with and bigger one's might help people gender me right. Now explain what I am.
Honestly I kinda do, atleast for the AGP part. Lesbians are like 2% of cis women, no way they are like 60% of trannies, straight men with AGP have invaded and taken over the trans "community".
what even makes you think that tho? if your frame of reference is LULZ memes then thats not gonna be that realistic. as someone who has some agp feelings 99% of what people say about agp makes no sense, it's all garbage they saw someone say on LULZ. just cause i like feeling feminine and sometimes may have sexual feelings over that doesn't mean i want to skinwalk my mom, or assault women, or am into other trans women, or anything like that. agp is mostly pretty harmless. it's actually beautiful tbh cause most of the enjoyment i get from femininity isn't sexual, i just feel genuine happiness, but this is demonized.
most of the etiology in blanchardism is really fucking dumb and not correct. There's obviously a lot of differences between androphilic and gynephilic trannies, which mostly come from the differences between gay and straight men, and which blanchard does correctly identify.
I don't believe that specific typology, but I do believe there are, broadly speaking, two distinct "categories" of trans woman and further research/discussion about it is important.
It's fundamentally bizarre to insist that Kim Petras and Chris Chan have the same condition or are part of the same social movement.
I feel like there’s an element of truth to it, but I think culturally we’re very different to the times that blanchard did his studying in. I think people obsess over it far, far too much. I feel like someone could interpret the way I am as being AGP or HSTS depending on how much they like me
I believe they exist but it's not a dichotomy and they're not mutually exclusive
it's much more complex than a dichotomy but AGP very clearly is a thing and there are tranners who openly admit to being a gay man who transitioned to get straight men
no matter how many threads you post this in it sadly will never become true.
maybe, it doesn't apply to everyone
but in general you probably had either straight male socialization or gay male socialization
tough to tell. i was ruthlessly bullied for being effeminate, called "homosexual" and "queer" constantly, but i never presented myself as gay nor did i ever date anyone before transition. some people i knew suspected i was some kind of queer but others bought that i was a straight boy.
im only attracted to men but i never told anybody that until i was 16 (same age as i transitioned)
I dont think the AGP/HSTS groupings are accurate, rather, it is a reflection of the fact that some people are very effeminate and obviously gay pre-transition, and therefore are more likely to be treated differently growing up and have female friends, and therefore behave more stereotypically “female” after transition. others are more stereotypically “male” in terms of behaviour/ appearance before transition, and therefore grow up in a male environment. unfortunately, this continues to reproduce after transition, as women are far more comfortable around group one trans women rather than group two
I don't believe in it at all.
It ignores and/or contradicts everything I learned in college 10 years ago.
As far as I'm concerned, it's just an extension of bucketcrab mentality at best, and a method of hate for transphobes/trolls at worst.
Blanchardianism is a cult and I don't understand how it took root in everyone's mind seemingly overnight when I wasn't looking.
in broad strokes, i think it describes most reasons for transitioning. although i think it doesn't describe a large majority of online transitioners in their teens/early 20s who are likely uncomfortable with their body image, personality, and attractions and it gets turned into severe dysmorphia and a form of dysphoria
i don't think blanchard's "how do you tell" stuff is accurate though, i'm ugly as hell and i like computers and techy stuff an awful lot but i still like guys
I don't. I think there's probably a few reasons for transitioning but they might overlap or whatever. I also think that if you have dysphoria or if you just feel like transitioning, it's your right anyway because it's your body, although maybe only the first one should be given free healthcare for it.
://academic.oup.com/cercor/article/29/5/2084/5062356 >Although frequently discussed in terms of sex dimorphism, the neurobiology of sexual orientation and identity is unknown. We report multimodal magnetic resonance imaging data, including cortical thickness (Cth), subcortical volumes, and resting state functional magnetic resonance imaging, from 27 transgender women (TrW), 40 transgender men (TrM), and 80 heterosexual (40 men) and 60 homosexual cisgender controls (30 men). These data show that whereas homosexuality is linked to cerebral sex dimorphism, gender dysphoria primarily involves cerebral networks mediating self–body perception. Among the homosexual cisgender controls, weaker sex dimorphism was found in white matter connections and a partly reversed sex dimorphism in Cth. Similar patterns were detected in transgender persons compared with heterosexual cisgender controls, but the significant clusters disappeared when adding homosexual controls, and correcting for sexual orientation. Instead, both TrW and TrM displayed singular features, showing greater Cth as well as weaker structural and functional connections in the anterior cingulate-precuneus and right occipito-parietal cortex, regions known to process own body perception in the context of self.
This study shows that all trans people, regardless of sexual orientation or direction of transition share a set of structural brain differences compared to cis people in the self/body processing regions of the brain that correlate directly to gender identity incongruence and gender dysphoria. Also the study shows that straight trans women's brains are no more feminized than those of cis gay men, and likewise for straight trans men and cis lesbian women with brain masculinzation.
There are a bunch more studies in this vein that went on to show that trans people receiving hrt have these structural brain differences shrink towards cis norms as gender congruence increases.
Keep in mind that the initial study I posted was looking at trans people BEFORE they went on cross sex hrt. Once on long term hrt the brains of trans women will eventually become much more feminized than they were pre-hrt.
Also, these studies suggest that how feminine you were prior to transition is not a measure of how valid you are anyway. You're trans first and foremost because of your gender identity, gender affirming care will give you the brain and body feminization to match that gender identity even if you didn't get a head start thanks to being an androphile and/or having an intersex spectrum condition.
my whole view of what GD is is that it was the wrong brain in the wrong body, without that i ultimately have to accept that somehow deep down im not innately female. and that hurts too much. even if it changed later this just makes every transphobe argument true in my eyes...
oh that lmfao
yeah it was from one pseudoscientific looking article. it wasn't verified.
irregardless, it's not going to look like that of a MAN. Hrt does do shit to your brain too
well i hope it never looked like a mans i have no framework to explain or justify my existence if it did.
>now that im confronted with the possibility my brain is like that of a mans
Lol what's changed? You're the same person since you read that post. These are just words, you're still the same person.
i get that but until i personally get an mri ill have to be haunted by this knowledge. if the same person as before is actually a man i have no attachment to life.
>my whole view of what GD is is that it was the wrong brain in the wrong body, without that i ultimately have to accept that somehow deep down im not innately female. and that hurts too much. even if it changed later this just makes every transphobe argument true in my eyes...
You have this completely backwards. What these studies really show is that cis women and trans women are fundamentally women for the *same* reason: Having the gender identity of a woman. The difference is that cis women start off with a body and social treatment that matches their gender identity and we don't, so we need to transition to get ours to match.
Keep in mind that gender identity is an immutably characteristic of human brains, like sexual orientation or handedness, and since brain scans now support this, I think it provides a much firmer foundation than the 'gendered brain' stuff which was always very thinly supported in the research.
from my perspective it seems like ive lost everything aside from my "gender identity" which even if thats a physical unchangeable part of the brain, that being the only feminized part of the brain feels like instead of being a woman tragically born in the wrong body id instead be a broken male with a fucked up brain
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
Again, you have this backwards. Gender identity is the same thing that causes cis women to be women, because if they didn't have that gender identity they'd develop dysphoria). so "a woman tragically born in the wrong body" is literally correct, it's just that "the wrong body" includes the sexually dimorphic parts of the brain to some extent and that's part of the reason we need HRT, because it helps our brains and bodies match our gender identity the way it does for cis women.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
i see. i guess thats a little better then. idk. im still freaking out a bit because this is all very existential and important to me.
Brain sex is a partial meme since the regions that have been determined as being sexually dimorphic are only noticeably dimorphic when you look at entire groups of test subjects on aggregate. Even then, when you adjust for inter-cranial volume, the sexes overlap significantly with respect to gray and white matter volume and density in these regions. And also, nobody ever looks at your brain on a daily basis. What matters more is getting a passing face, voice, and body. Any of this “ontologically female” crap is just wishful thinking that makes hons and pre-e trannies feel better about themselves. But the harsh truth is that all that matters is passing. Once you pass, you could admit that your sole motive was to get fucked by straight guys or to seduce lesbians and nobody aside from the most deranged and obsessive terfs will care. Because womanhood as a social category is based purely on aesthetics
no! this wasnt a choice for me! i have to be ontologically female or i never would have felt dysphoria when i did! passing is great and all but if its not for the right reason id just be a man who chose this. and im not! ive always been like this. gender isnt a social construct. i transitioned because at some level i am a woman and always have been
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
If that was the case, then there would be such a thing as a masculine or feminine singularity and that anyone who deviated would be trans by default. But that’s not how any of this works. You’re trans because of a discomfort with male characteristics. Shrimple as
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
and that had to have come from something innately female within me or else i wouldnt have hated being male and wanted desperately to be a girl from age 4
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
I don’t deny that the feeling is innate, because my development followed a similar trajectory, but it’s dishonest for us to claim to know for sure what it is when each study provides vastly different results and none of them have been consistently replicable. All that matters is QOL for the patient.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
well why should we even be treated if we are just self hating men in your view? surely therapy would be a better option for that kind of condition
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
Because any form of cognitive or behavioral therapy has been shown to be ineffective.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
but why do you think that is if GD isnt a physical difference in the brain (and thus unchangeable)
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
I’m not saying there isn’t some neurological irregularity in transsexuals, because there often is (I have Tourette’s that can be treated with low doses of speed ffs, that’s not normal), but that we’ll never pin it down to a single region or cluster of regions simply because the brain is far too plastic, allowing some regions of the brain can be used to regulate different cognitive, motor, autonomic, physiological, and sensory functions if another area is damaged. The fact that most of these studies intentionally exclude patients with autism, tic and movement disorders, extremely severe mood disorders, and dsd’s in order to find a potential biological cause of dysphoria in an otherwise healthy and normal population will only give you one piece of the puzzle.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
ah so id never even be allowed to participate (i am autistic).
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
>and that had to have come from something innately female within
Yes. Your gender identity. What you're doing is like a lesbian worrying she can't justifying really being a gynephile because only her innate sexual identity caused her to be a lesbian rather than being 'lesbian brained' (remember the evidence for afab gynephiles having 'masculinized brains' is much weaker than for amab androphiles having 'feminized brains'). It should be obvious this makes no sense because sexual orientation is literally the thing that made her lesbian in the first place. Same with gender identity.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
yeah i guess that makes sense.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
Gender is still technically neurological though no? its just more of a minor area rather than impacting the entire structure or the brain.
I mean sexuality is still technically neurological and hormonal so I'd imagine it's the same thing? I mean it kind of has to be if trans-medicalism has a case to rest on.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
>Gender is still technically neurological though no? its just more of a minor area rather than impacting the entire structure or the brain.
Yes, it being in the self/body processing regions of the brain still means its neurological. From my understanding, a good analogy here is that this part of the brain is where the brain's internal map of your body and identity is, and if that map says you're a woman, but your endocrine system, other parts of your brain and body, and the outside world try to tell you that you're a man, the result is the cognitive dissonance called dysphoria. This is because your brain cannot be convinced that it's internal map is wrong.
This would be pretty close to a direct analogue for that condition where some people are born with an internal brain map missing a left hand, and they experience body dysphoria from having a left hand even though their brain's internal map says they don't have one, and those people often end up finding a way to lose their left hand to make the body match the map, and them matching provides relief (which it does not in dysmorphia, that's actually the key distinction between them).
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
I’ve got a sneaking suspicion it’s more than just the gender identification area that’s mixed up in all cases. I mean I think the AGP/HSTS classifications are bullshit but there are a lot of trans folks who genuinely do not give off male behavior vibes or develop in a neurotypical male manner. To the extent that it’s so noticeable other people pick up on it and usually question if they’re gay and a lot of times they’ll socialize alongside females way more than their male counterparts. Bodily appearance and development aside.
I’ve suspected for a long time that some trans folks are neurologically and potentially hormonally intersex as opposed to other variations of intersex conditions and they just haven’t figured out how to identify it technologically yet. And I’m not talking the “male brain” “female brain” meme because I think biologically it’s a at more complicated than that. But that to me seems to be partially where the whole HSTS and AGP stupidity stemmed out from.
It wouldn’t surprise me if there’s multiple causes for transness in an individual and they manifest in different ways.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
Oh, I don't think that any of the research I posted contradicts that androphilic and intersex spectrum trans women get a head start on transition. It's just good to recognize beint 'trutrans' doesn't *depend* on getting that head start. Those with a head start are just lucky, not more virtuous.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
yeah ive always considered GD to be a neural intersex condition. and what you're describing fits my story as well. i mostly hung out with boys, a few girls but like 70% boys, but despite never telling anyone of my crushes on men i was always percieved as gay and in fact bullied very harshly for it to the point of becoming depressed. i never even could tell what made them think that. (i did have crushes on male friends but never said anything about them)
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
Spent most of my own childhood hanging out with female friends. Hit middle school. Puberty hit. Got super fucking depressed and dissociative out of nowhere. Pretty sure it was ritalin and dysphoria hitting me both at once.
Started socializing more with dudes. Can’t tell you how many times I had people question if I was gay. Family as well were pretty sure I was going to come out at some point. Led to a lot of internalized homophobia and later transphobia because so many people questioned and made fun of my masculinity.
Another reason why Blanchard is fake and gay. I’d probably fit the HSTS category more but because I’m bisexual (which he doesn’t believe in) and didn’t realize I was trans till way later due to dissociation and cultural ignorance, I’d probably be labeled “AGP”. This despite gender identity getting in the way of my dating my ex.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
yeah its definitely flawed. lots of people including myself would unironically be both. like i only like men, had early onset dysphoria, but i never came out as gay pre transition. i also like malebrained shit but part of that is that i had a gamer dad and a tomboy mom so i was just never gonna end up with feminine hobbies lol
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
>drawing comparisons to BIID
While I agree that GD and BIID present in a similar manner, it’s probably best to avoid mentioning that because it gives the wrong impression to Normans
[...]
://academic.oup.com/cercor/article/29/5/2084/5062356 >Although frequently discussed in terms of sex dimorphism, the neurobiology of sexual orientation and identity is unknown. We report multimodal magnetic resonance imaging data, including cortical thickness (Cth), subcortical volumes, and resting state functional magnetic resonance imaging, from 27 transgender women (TrW), 40 transgender men (TrM), and 80 heterosexual (40 men) and 60 homosexual cisgender controls (30 men). These data show that whereas homosexuality is linked to cerebral sex dimorphism, gender dysphoria primarily involves cerebral networks mediating self–body perception. Among the homosexual cisgender controls, weaker sex dimorphism was found in white matter connections and a partly reversed sex dimorphism in Cth. Similar patterns were detected in transgender persons compared with heterosexual cisgender controls, but the significant clusters disappeared when adding homosexual controls, and correcting for sexual orientation. Instead, both TrW and TrM displayed singular features, showing greater Cth as well as weaker structural and functional connections in the anterior cingulate-precuneus and right occipito-parietal cortex, regions known to process own body perception in the context of self.
This study shows that all trans people, regardless of sexual orientation or direction of transition share a set of structural brain differences compared to cis people in the self/body processing regions of the brain that correlate directly to gender identity incongruence and gender dysphoria. Also the study shows that straight trans women's brains are no more feminized than those of cis gay men, and likewise for straight trans men and cis lesbian women with brain masculinzation.
There are a bunch more studies in this vein that went on to show that trans people receiving hrt have these structural brain differences shrink towards cis norms as gender congruence increases.
>Transgender persons experience incongruence between their gender identity and birth-assigned sex. The resulting gender dysphoria (GD), is frequently treated with cross-sex hormones. However, very little is known about how this treatment affects the brain of individuals with GD, nor do we know the neurobiology of GD. We recently suggested that disconnection of fronto-parietal networks involved in own-body self-referential processing could be a plausible mechanism, and that the anatomical correlate could be a thickening of the mesial prefrontal and precuneus cortex, which is unrelated to sex. Here, we investigate how cross-sex hormone treatment affects cerebral tissue in persons with GD, and how potential changes are related to self-body perception.
>significant Cth decreases were observed in the mesial prefrontal and parietal cortices, in both TrM and TrW (vs. controls) – regions showing greater pre-treatment Cth than in controls. The own body – self congruence ratings increased with treatment, and correlated with a left parietal cortical thinning. These data confirm our hypothesis that GD may be associated with specific anatomical features in own-body/self-processing circuits that reverse to the pattern of cisgender controls after cross-sex hormone treatment
Here's one of the studies showing that HRT directly affects the brains structure of trans people in the self/body processing regions of the brain, causing them to become more like those of cis people as gender congruence increases. These studies provide direct observation evidence for the gender identity ingongruence -> gender dysphoria -> gender affirming care -> increased gender congruence -> reduced dysphoria understanding of transness.
I don't believe in the trans thing. I think you're all women who identify as ex-men.
AGP/HSTS are archaic psyop terms used by tourists like and
. The only real trans people were transmeds and we're being slowly pushed out of the community by people who have basically solidified the "trans is a choice" thing into the public paradigm for decades now. Come the next 10 years there will likely be a mass genocide that proves this correct.
I was just joking tho I don't actually think agp and hsts should be recognized I just think it's funny
Yeah you're right people posting about AGP on /lgbt are probably having profound effects on society
insanely based post. absolutely. i agree that within the next 10 years pushback is gonna be so hard that transgenderism will die and everyone without dysphoria will detroon, but i hope after a brief period of chaos the transsexuals will be able to recover.
While I find transmed people broadly correct (why WOULD anyone transition without dysphoria), I also think they're extremely annoying and aren't actually focused on anything that would advance binary trans rights (such as pushing for universal healthcare in the US), just arguing with theyfab retards on Twitter.
However, you are correct that AGP/HSTS is largely a phenomenon pushed by Redditors and Twitter morons on this site.
>why WOULD anyone transition without dysphoria
fun?
I personally am a based and fempilled hsts lesbian
there's no such thing as "hsts". and all women have agp.
I think I agree with this person.
The first time I really came out to anyone it was to my first girlfriend, and I was so terrified to. Absolutely terrified. But she was so kind and understanding about it, and shockingly, it actually made her like me even more. When I told her about the idea of "AGP", and how it makes me feel like I'm not a real woman and how I feel like I'm just some awful pervert who doesn't deserve to be treated as a woman because of it, she told me I was wrong. She said she understood completely, and didn't even think it was weird at all. She even said that she could relate to the kinds of feelings I was describing, and said that she thinks a lot of or even most cis girls feel that way too sometimes. She even said that she had masturbated looking at herself in the mirror a couple times. I was really shocked to hear all of that, but it was really, really reassuring, and made me feel a lot less bad about myself. Just wanted to share that with all of you. Even if you are "agp", maybe don't be so harsh on yourself.
anyway to answer OP's question
no, lol
All this talk about those new brainscan studies might make the whole theory untenable anywya but no I never really believed in it. I'm sure they are real phenomena that can describe certain traits or collections of traits in certain people, but as the only two reasons anyone would transition it's pretty garbage.
Doesn't prevent me from being brainwormed about it tho but that's another thing
idk if brain scans are really reliable, and I'm always paranoid that a doctor or scientist with a hidden agenda could be playing with the MRI settings to get the results he wants (most of modern "science" is really just conclusion shopping for big capital)
the brainscan has always seemed like bullshit
re OP probably not, but there's an element of truth in there - there tend to be two types of people that transition - those with agp introvert computer/art personalities and hsts extrovert straight personalities
how do you deal with it?
deal with what sorry?
the agp?
become fembrained. shrimple as that. also realize that nobody really cares lmfao
hsts are kinda cringe sometimes tho so
no how do you deal with not believing in the brain scans? now that im confronted with the possibility my brain is like that of a mans i feel like im going to fucking puke and i dont know if ill be able to live with it if its true
oh that lmfao
yeah it was from one pseudoscientific looking article. it wasn't verified.
irregardless, it's not going to look like that of a MAN. Hrt does do shit to your brain too
>now that im confronted with the possibility my brain is like that of a mans
Lol what's changed? You're the same person since you read that post. These are just words, you're still the same person.
Like half do and half don't. But the half who don't don't understand that by using it in a joking way they are introducing and reinforcing it to people and its really not worth it
Blanchard's typology is scientific fact
as someone who could be considered agp and is definitely dysphoric, this is not my experience
AGP is fact indeed, but HSTS is not, there is no logical process to explain the link of it with transsexualism other than the higher incidence of AGP found in transsexuals and it doesn't happen exclusively in males
Nope
https://vintologi.com/threads/science-regarding-transexualism.566/post-3410
>my preferred conclusion is scientific fact
>doesn’t even post any legitimate scientific research, just a passage from some rapehon’s book that reads more like her projecting her own feelings onto other trannies
Wow, really bought into the malebrain vs fembrain meme huh?
I wish I were linear tho, I can't even do my chores one at a time, much less in a causal order. If I weren't so chaotic maybe I'd be able to get stuff done like a normal person
blanchard is a stupid homosexual. the agp/hsts dichotomy only works in that most trannies roughly fall into one of the other just based on the stereotypes of both. also for as much shit as agps get, they’re significantly more fun to be around than hsts tbh
do you see these "fun agps" as women or as men?
women, because it’s not hard to see people as they want to be seen if you’re not a maladjusted loser
well yes of course, but do you think they were always meant to be women or do you think they only feel that way because of agp
Ok let me ask the people here what I have if they believe in it. I'm demisexual so I only feel attraction to guys I romantically like and am In a relationship with first. I don't get attracted to the idea of having a dick or vagina. Though I would want to have a vagina out of the two cause the dick just looks like playdoo strapped on my crotch. I don't really like thinking about myself during sex and just like to focus on my partner (I don't think of myself in fantasies). I was with my partner pretrasition and I don't care how he thinks about me during sex, I just like the idea he's getting off and feeling good from what I'm doing. Once again no casual attraction, no porn, unless somehow it looks like my partner close enough. I wish my boobs were bigger but only cause small bra's are annoying as shit to deal with and bigger one's might help people gender me right. Now explain what I am.
I believe they sort of exist but are ultimately unimportant labels
No it's just funny to call others agps
Sounds like something an agp would say
Honestly I kinda do, atleast for the AGP part. Lesbians are like 2% of cis women, no way they are like 60% of trannies, straight men with AGP have invaded and taken over the trans "community".
not all agps are transbians so that doesnt even make sense.
Sure but most of them are. It could also be an overstimation, and that AGPs are a loud minority, HSTS are the silent majority.
what even makes you think that tho? if your frame of reference is LULZ memes then thats not gonna be that realistic. as someone who has some agp feelings 99% of what people say about agp makes no sense, it's all garbage they saw someone say on LULZ. just cause i like feeling feminine and sometimes may have sexual feelings over that doesn't mean i want to skinwalk my mom, or assault women, or am into other trans women, or anything like that. agp is mostly pretty harmless. it's actually beautiful tbh cause most of the enjoyment i get from femininity isn't sexual, i just feel genuine happiness, but this is demonized.
im glad you're able to accept yourself like that. im slightly agp like you and hate myself for it immensely.
i'm more curious about how many of those who say they believe in it have actually read blanchard or lawrence
I think it's bullshit but it's funny to post like I do.
I don't think it's a sound theory and using it for serious analysis is dumb
but boy does it tend to fit most trans I know
most of the etiology in blanchardism is really fucking dumb and not correct. There's obviously a lot of differences between androphilic and gynephilic trannies, which mostly come from the differences between gay and straight men, and which blanchard does correctly identify.
idk i dont think i have much in common with gay men or straight men so i find it a bit inaccurate for me
maybe, it doesn't apply to everyone
but in general you probably had either straight male socialization or gay male socialization
I don't believe that specific typology, but I do believe there are, broadly speaking, two distinct "categories" of trans woman and further research/discussion about it is important.
It's fundamentally bizarre to insist that Kim Petras and Chris Chan have the same condition or are part of the same social movement.
I feel like there’s an element of truth to it, but I think culturally we’re very different to the times that blanchard did his studying in. I think people obsess over it far, far too much. I feel like someone could interpret the way I am as being AGP or HSTS depending on how much they like me
I believe they exist but it's not a dichotomy and they're not mutually exclusive
it's much more complex than a dichotomy but AGP very clearly is a thing and there are tranners who openly admit to being a gay man who transitioned to get straight men
no matter how many threads you post this in it sadly will never become true.
tough to tell. i was ruthlessly bullied for being effeminate, called "homosexual" and "queer" constantly, but i never presented myself as gay nor did i ever date anyone before transition. some people i knew suspected i was some kind of queer but others bought that i was a straight boy.
im only attracted to men but i never told anybody that until i was 16 (same age as i transitioned)
I dont think the AGP/HSTS groupings are accurate, rather, it is a reflection of the fact that some people are very effeminate and obviously gay pre-transition, and therefore are more likely to be treated differently growing up and have female friends, and therefore behave more stereotypically “female” after transition. others are more stereotypically “male” in terms of behaviour/ appearance before transition, and therefore grow up in a male environment. unfortunately, this continues to reproduce after transition, as women are far more comfortable around group one trans women rather than group two
yeah i guess that explains why i was feeling dysphoria at 4, 6 years before i was ever bullied for anything
I don't believe in it at all.
It ignores and/or contradicts everything I learned in college 10 years ago.
As far as I'm concerned, it's just an extension of bucketcrab mentality at best, and a method of hate for transphobes/trolls at worst.
Blanchardianism is a cult and I don't understand how it took root in everyone's mind seemingly overnight when I wasn't looking.
No. Modern brain scan evidence directly disproves both of Blanchard's key assumptions
Brain scans prove it exits and that HRT treats it.
in broad strokes, i think it describes most reasons for transitioning. although i think it doesn't describe a large majority of online transitioners in their teens/early 20s who are likely uncomfortable with their body image, personality, and attractions and it gets turned into severe dysmorphia and a form of dysphoria
i don't think blanchard's "how do you tell" stuff is accurate though, i'm ugly as hell and i like computers and techy stuff an awful lot but i still like guys
I don't. I think there's probably a few reasons for transitioning but they might overlap or whatever. I also think that if you have dysphoria or if you just feel like transitioning, it's your right anyway because it's your body, although maybe only the first one should be given free healthcare for it.
I'm not at tranny tho
://academic.oup.com/cercor/article/29/5/2084/5062356
>Although frequently discussed in terms of sex dimorphism, the neurobiology of sexual orientation and identity is unknown. We report multimodal magnetic resonance imaging data, including cortical thickness (Cth), subcortical volumes, and resting state functional magnetic resonance imaging, from 27 transgender women (TrW), 40 transgender men (TrM), and 80 heterosexual (40 men) and 60 homosexual cisgender controls (30 men). These data show that whereas homosexuality is linked to cerebral sex dimorphism, gender dysphoria primarily involves cerebral networks mediating self–body perception. Among the homosexual cisgender controls, weaker sex dimorphism was found in white matter connections and a partly reversed sex dimorphism in Cth. Similar patterns were detected in transgender persons compared with heterosexual cisgender controls, but the significant clusters disappeared when adding homosexual controls, and correcting for sexual orientation. Instead, both TrW and TrM displayed singular features, showing greater Cth as well as weaker structural and functional connections in the anterior cingulate-precuneus and right occipito-parietal cortex, regions known to process own body perception in the context of self.
This study shows that all trans people, regardless of sexual orientation or direction of transition share a set of structural brain differences compared to cis people in the self/body processing regions of the brain that correlate directly to gender identity incongruence and gender dysphoria. Also the study shows that straight trans women's brains are no more feminized than those of cis gay men, and likewise for straight trans men and cis lesbian women with brain masculinzation.
There are a bunch more studies in this vein that went on to show that trans people receiving hrt have these structural brain differences shrink towards cis norms as gender congruence increases.
>straight trans womens brains are no more feminized than cis gay men
i think its time for me to exit this life.
Keep in mind that the initial study I posted was looking at trans people BEFORE they went on cross sex hrt. Once on long term hrt the brains of trans women will eventually become much more feminized than they were pre-hrt.
Also, these studies suggest that how feminine you were prior to transition is not a measure of how valid you are anyway. You're trans first and foremost because of your gender identity, gender affirming care will give you the brain and body feminization to match that gender identity even if you didn't get a head start thanks to being an androphile and/or having an intersex spectrum condition.
my whole view of what GD is is that it was the wrong brain in the wrong body, without that i ultimately have to accept that somehow deep down im not innately female. and that hurts too much. even if it changed later this just makes every transphobe argument true in my eyes...
well i hope it never looked like a mans i have no framework to explain or justify my existence if it did.
i get that but until i personally get an mri ill have to be haunted by this knowledge. if the same person as before is actually a man i have no attachment to life.
>my whole view of what GD is is that it was the wrong brain in the wrong body, without that i ultimately have to accept that somehow deep down im not innately female. and that hurts too much. even if it changed later this just makes every transphobe argument true in my eyes...
You have this completely backwards. What these studies really show is that cis women and trans women are fundamentally women for the *same* reason: Having the gender identity of a woman. The difference is that cis women start off with a body and social treatment that matches their gender identity and we don't, so we need to transition to get ours to match.
Keep in mind that gender identity is an immutably characteristic of human brains, like sexual orientation or handedness, and since brain scans now support this, I think it provides a much firmer foundation than the 'gendered brain' stuff which was always very thinly supported in the research.
from my perspective it seems like ive lost everything aside from my "gender identity" which even if thats a physical unchangeable part of the brain, that being the only feminized part of the brain feels like instead of being a woman tragically born in the wrong body id instead be a broken male with a fucked up brain
Again, you have this backwards. Gender identity is the same thing that causes cis women to be women, because if they didn't have that gender identity they'd develop dysphoria). so "a woman tragically born in the wrong body" is literally correct, it's just that "the wrong body" includes the sexually dimorphic parts of the brain to some extent and that's part of the reason we need HRT, because it helps our brains and bodies match our gender identity the way it does for cis women.
i see. i guess thats a little better then. idk. im still freaking out a bit because this is all very existential and important to me.
Brain sex is a partial meme since the regions that have been determined as being sexually dimorphic are only noticeably dimorphic when you look at entire groups of test subjects on aggregate. Even then, when you adjust for inter-cranial volume, the sexes overlap significantly with respect to gray and white matter volume and density in these regions. And also, nobody ever looks at your brain on a daily basis. What matters more is getting a passing face, voice, and body. Any of this “ontologically female” crap is just wishful thinking that makes hons and pre-e trannies feel better about themselves. But the harsh truth is that all that matters is passing. Once you pass, you could admit that your sole motive was to get fucked by straight guys or to seduce lesbians and nobody aside from the most deranged and obsessive terfs will care. Because womanhood as a social category is based purely on aesthetics
no! this wasnt a choice for me! i have to be ontologically female or i never would have felt dysphoria when i did! passing is great and all but if its not for the right reason id just be a man who chose this. and im not! ive always been like this. gender isnt a social construct. i transitioned because at some level i am a woman and always have been
If that was the case, then there would be such a thing as a masculine or feminine singularity and that anyone who deviated would be trans by default. But that’s not how any of this works. You’re trans because of a discomfort with male characteristics. Shrimple as
and that had to have come from something innately female within me or else i wouldnt have hated being male and wanted desperately to be a girl from age 4
I don’t deny that the feeling is innate, because my development followed a similar trajectory, but it’s dishonest for us to claim to know for sure what it is when each study provides vastly different results and none of them have been consistently replicable. All that matters is QOL for the patient.
well why should we even be treated if we are just self hating men in your view? surely therapy would be a better option for that kind of condition
Because any form of cognitive or behavioral therapy has been shown to be ineffective.
but why do you think that is if GD isnt a physical difference in the brain (and thus unchangeable)
I’m not saying there isn’t some neurological irregularity in transsexuals, because there often is (I have Tourette’s that can be treated with low doses of speed ffs, that’s not normal), but that we’ll never pin it down to a single region or cluster of regions simply because the brain is far too plastic, allowing some regions of the brain can be used to regulate different cognitive, motor, autonomic, physiological, and sensory functions if another area is damaged. The fact that most of these studies intentionally exclude patients with autism, tic and movement disorders, extremely severe mood disorders, and dsd’s in order to find a potential biological cause of dysphoria in an otherwise healthy and normal population will only give you one piece of the puzzle.
ah so id never even be allowed to participate (i am autistic).
>and that had to have come from something innately female within
Yes. Your gender identity. What you're doing is like a lesbian worrying she can't justifying really being a gynephile because only her innate sexual identity caused her to be a lesbian rather than being 'lesbian brained' (remember the evidence for afab gynephiles having 'masculinized brains' is much weaker than for amab androphiles having 'feminized brains'). It should be obvious this makes no sense because sexual orientation is literally the thing that made her lesbian in the first place. Same with gender identity.
yeah i guess that makes sense.
Gender is still technically neurological though no? its just more of a minor area rather than impacting the entire structure or the brain.
I mean sexuality is still technically neurological and hormonal so I'd imagine it's the same thing? I mean it kind of has to be if trans-medicalism has a case to rest on.
>Gender is still technically neurological though no? its just more of a minor area rather than impacting the entire structure or the brain.
Yes, it being in the self/body processing regions of the brain still means its neurological. From my understanding, a good analogy here is that this part of the brain is where the brain's internal map of your body and identity is, and if that map says you're a woman, but your endocrine system, other parts of your brain and body, and the outside world try to tell you that you're a man, the result is the cognitive dissonance called dysphoria. This is because your brain cannot be convinced that it's internal map is wrong.
This would be pretty close to a direct analogue for that condition where some people are born with an internal brain map missing a left hand, and they experience body dysphoria from having a left hand even though their brain's internal map says they don't have one, and those people often end up finding a way to lose their left hand to make the body match the map, and them matching provides relief (which it does not in dysmorphia, that's actually the key distinction between them).
I’ve got a sneaking suspicion it’s more than just the gender identification area that’s mixed up in all cases. I mean I think the AGP/HSTS classifications are bullshit but there are a lot of trans folks who genuinely do not give off male behavior vibes or develop in a neurotypical male manner. To the extent that it’s so noticeable other people pick up on it and usually question if they’re gay and a lot of times they’ll socialize alongside females way more than their male counterparts. Bodily appearance and development aside.
I’ve suspected for a long time that some trans folks are neurologically and potentially hormonally intersex as opposed to other variations of intersex conditions and they just haven’t figured out how to identify it technologically yet. And I’m not talking the “male brain” “female brain” meme because I think biologically it’s a at more complicated than that. But that to me seems to be partially where the whole HSTS and AGP stupidity stemmed out from.
It wouldn’t surprise me if there’s multiple causes for transness in an individual and they manifest in different ways.
Oh, I don't think that any of the research I posted contradicts that androphilic and intersex spectrum trans women get a head start on transition. It's just good to recognize beint 'trutrans' doesn't *depend* on getting that head start. Those with a head start are just lucky, not more virtuous.
yeah ive always considered GD to be a neural intersex condition. and what you're describing fits my story as well. i mostly hung out with boys, a few girls but like 70% boys, but despite never telling anyone of my crushes on men i was always percieved as gay and in fact bullied very harshly for it to the point of becoming depressed. i never even could tell what made them think that. (i did have crushes on male friends but never said anything about them)
Spent most of my own childhood hanging out with female friends. Hit middle school. Puberty hit. Got super fucking depressed and dissociative out of nowhere. Pretty sure it was ritalin and dysphoria hitting me both at once.
Started socializing more with dudes. Can’t tell you how many times I had people question if I was gay. Family as well were pretty sure I was going to come out at some point. Led to a lot of internalized homophobia and later transphobia because so many people questioned and made fun of my masculinity.
Another reason why Blanchard is fake and gay. I’d probably fit the HSTS category more but because I’m bisexual (which he doesn’t believe in) and didn’t realize I was trans till way later due to dissociation and cultural ignorance, I’d probably be labeled “AGP”. This despite gender identity getting in the way of my dating my ex.
yeah its definitely flawed. lots of people including myself would unironically be both. like i only like men, had early onset dysphoria, but i never came out as gay pre transition. i also like malebrained shit but part of that is that i had a gamer dad and a tomboy mom so i was just never gonna end up with feminine hobbies lol
>drawing comparisons to BIID
While I agree that GD and BIID present in a similar manner, it’s probably best to avoid mentioning that because it gives the wrong impression to Normans
>https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/ejn.14420
>Transgender persons experience incongruence between their gender identity and birth-assigned sex. The resulting gender dysphoria (GD), is frequently treated with cross-sex hormones. However, very little is known about how this treatment affects the brain of individuals with GD, nor do we know the neurobiology of GD. We recently suggested that disconnection of fronto-parietal networks involved in own-body self-referential processing could be a plausible mechanism, and that the anatomical correlate could be a thickening of the mesial prefrontal and precuneus cortex, which is unrelated to sex. Here, we investigate how cross-sex hormone treatment affects cerebral tissue in persons with GD, and how potential changes are related to self-body perception.
>significant Cth decreases were observed in the mesial prefrontal and parietal cortices, in both TrM and TrW (vs. controls) – regions showing greater pre-treatment Cth than in controls. The own body – self congruence ratings increased with treatment, and correlated with a left parietal cortical thinning. These data confirm our hypothesis that GD may be associated with specific anatomical features in own-body/self-processing circuits that reverse to the pattern of cisgender controls after cross-sex hormone treatment
Here's one of the studies showing that HRT directly affects the brains structure of trans people in the self/body processing regions of the brain, causing them to become more like those of cis people as gender congruence increases. These studies provide direct observation evidence for the gender identity ingongruence -> gender dysphoria -> gender affirming care -> increased gender congruence -> reduced dysphoria understanding of transness.
holy shit hq glegle need more of these
explain first how one can change from a male to female.
ive been told on this board im a textbook definition of AGP. Or im just a freak.
It's real but incomplete. Even Muslims 1400 years ago acknowledged there was a difference between perverts and people that couldn't help it
can we stop arguing about random bullshit and answer ops question ffs