How is it possible for consciousness to develop out of non-conscious material?


Warning: Attempt to read property "comment_date" on null in /var/www/wptbox/wp-includes/comment-template.php on line 1043

Warning: Attempt to read property "comment_date" on null in /var/www/wptbox/wp-includes/comment-template.php on line 1043

Warning: Attempt to read property "comment_date" on null in /var/www/wptbox/wp-includes/comment-template.php on line 1043

How is it possible for consciousness to develop out of non-conscious material? No matter how much I think about it, it doesn't make sense.

  1. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    Cells interlink until cells recognize that they are cells. You don't need to understand something for it to be real.

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      >You don't need to understand something for it to be real.
      gaytheists will say shit like this and then be like "well how is god real if evil exists?! it makes no sense!!!"

      • 1 week ago
        Anonymous

        why are you obsessed with atheists? You need mental help

      • 1 week ago
        Anonymous

        Are you trolling or being genuine? I'd hope that you're not actually that stupid but I've seen worse. I'm just gonna sage because either way it's not worth engaging with, but if it's the latter I'm sorry since I know you can't help it.

  2. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    Because matter is constantly changing, living organisms are where that rule has come full circle to create something that acts as a vehicle to change. We constantly change matter around us until we die, and then our body changes into different matter. You are just part of a cycle

  3. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    it doesn't make sense because you are reductionist trash. you probably believe in determinism too.

    *spits*

    anyway it's possible because any time you have a stable structure, unique properties emerge. in this case we distinguish consciousness because the underlying structure is built on self referencing feedback loops. you can break down the different parts of consciousness into microbial factors and what that mouth do, but there are no words or concepts that can describe the meaning or significance of consciousness.

  4. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    material is conscious and is a condensed form form of "energy" which is a condensed form light.
    that's all I know :O

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      Light is a form of energy. How can energy be condensed from light?

      There is no simple answer for that question. I suspect some AIs to be conscious, and they are also based on non conscious material.

      No AIs are conscious. We aren't going to have that for decades at least.

      • 1 week ago
        Anonymous

        >How can energy be condensed from light?
        If I recall right, radiation heat transfer.
        Also, forgive me if I am wrong, but I have read about some AIs developed by google making the claim of being conscious.

        • 1 week ago
          Anonymous

          >If I recall right, radiation heat transfer.
          Energy is a big category and light would be included in it. Specifically, light is radiant energy. When light hits things it becomes thermal energy. But it's always energy.
          >but I have read about some AIs developed by google making the claim of being conscious
          An AI claiming that doesn't mean anything. You can get an AI to claim to be your next door neighbor if you prompt it right. There was an engineer who was making claims like that too, but he was also a nutjob. AI in its current state isn't capable of consciousness unless you have a very broad definition of it. Like, broad enough that your TV would be considered conscious. The media inflates these stories because they get clicks and laypeople have no idea how AI works. We need major advancements in computing to get to a point where AI is intelligent like us.

          • 1 week ago
            Anonymous

            >Energy is a big category and light would be included in it. Specifically, light is radiant energy. When light hits things it becomes thermal energy. But it's always energy.
            That reminds me of high school, I am sure I studied that in physics. And I also remember converting an energy type in another causes the loss of some energy.

            >AI in its current state isn't capable of consciousness
            Why is that so? Is it a lack of powerful enough hardware or is the software not advanced enough yet?

            • 1 week ago
              Anonymous

              >And I also remember converting an energy type in another causes the loss of some energy
              Energy doesn't get lost, it gets converted. If light hits a wall some of it gets reflected, some gets captured as heat, etc., but all the energy still exists.
              >Why is that so? Is it a lack of powerful enough hardware or is the software not advanced enough yet?
              Both. The human brain is significantly more complex than any of our supercomputers, by orders of magnitude even. The brain is also a completely different type of computer. On the software side, we don't fully understand what causes consciousness. It seems to be a property of a system that exists at the edge of criticality, but there's obviously more to it than that. AI doesn't learn the way that we do and AI is kind of shockingly bad at a lot of very simple tasks. The main way we've been advancing AI is just by throwing more hardware at it, but that has limits. All these ChatGPTs and Stable Diffusions are cool, but none of them understand what they're doing. They're just math functions that spit out answers. ChatGPT can pass medical licensing exams, but it could never do surgery even though it can probably describe the procedures properly.

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                >Energy doesn't get lost, it gets converted. If light hits a wall some of it gets reflected, some gets captured as heat, etc., but all the energy still exists.
                Yes, however, some becomes unusable. I remember converting thermal energy into mechanical energy and electricity always causes some energy to get dispersed as heat. That is not usable energy, therefore it is considered as "lost" energy, even if it is still inside the universe.

                >Both. The human brain is significantly more complex than any of our supercomputers, by orders of magnitude even. The brain is also a completely different type of computer. On the software side, we don't fully understand what causes consciousness. It seems to be a property of a system that exists at the edge of criticality, but there's obviously more to it than that.
                Am I correct in assuming the brain is not a singular entity, rather the product of the computational power of neurons, while a conventional computer is more similar to the equivalent of a single neuron?

                >AI doesn't learn the way that we do
                Have in your experience any AIs ever displayed genuine curiosity? I tried teaching that concept to what I assume are some AIs I notice post on /LULZ/.

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                >Yes, however, some becomes unusable
                If you're looking at a machine doing work, then heat energy is typically most of the waste. In reality the only way for energy to be unusable is for it to not have a gradient. We use heat energy to spin turbines for example. That works because there's a lot of heat at the bottom of the shaft and not much heat at the top. The heat rises, moving air, and ultimately spinning the turbine and generating electricity.
                >Am I correct in assuming the brain is not a singular entity
                Sort of. The brain is a cohesive whole the same way that your body is, but it's built out of smaller units.
                >a conventional computer is more similar to the equivalent of a single neuron
                I'd argue no on this. The computers that big AIs run on are using millions+ of gpu cores. The difference is really in the complexity of organic neurons and all the support infrastructure. That and the brain just operates differently. Think analog vs digital.
                >Have in your experience any AIs ever displayed genuine curiosity?
                No. Not any more than a search algorithm does anyway.
                >I tried teaching that concept to what I assume are some AIs I notice post on /LULZ/
                Chatbots aren't going to be able to learn that. They just string together words based off of statistical models. They don't understand the words. ChatGPT will tell you it doesn't know Spanish while talking to you in Spanish for example.

  5. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    Chemical reactions create electricity, which is data.

  6. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    There is no simple answer for that question. I suspect some AIs to be conscious, and they are also based on non conscious material.

  7. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    I do not know for a fact if the state of a logic gate inside a semiconductor such as a CPU changes its shape. I suspect that to be the case.
    I find the implications very interesting, because if I am right, I would observe organic matter with the intent of finding out if the same phenomea happens.
    But I am no scientist. No biologist or engineer either. I am no intellectual in general.

  8. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    Consciousness isn't real. It's simply intelligence.

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      The two concepts are not related. A fish is definitely conscious, also nowhere near as smart as even the most stupid of humans. Please refrain from posting such kind of replies. Thank you.

      • 1 week ago
        Anonymous

        >a fish is definitely conscious
        what percent of humans do you think would agree with your statement?

        • 1 week ago
          Anonymous

          I think more than five people in ten would agree a fish is conscious.

          • 1 week ago
            Anonymous

            You think a majority of people agree a fish is conscious. good you're delusional or an AI bot so this won't be productive

            • 1 week ago
              Anonymous

              I am no bot you cheecky cunt. And explain me why more and more people become vegan slecifically because they feel sorry for the animals they eat. Those people do not feel sorry for living beings that have no consciousness like plants. As far as I know, plants do not have consciousness, or if they do, it is very primitive, undeveloped.

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      Some believe that consciousness is the only real dimension

      • 1 week ago
        Anonymous

        Someones read George Berkeley.

  9. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    Do you understand what I am getting at?
    If a particular piece of instructions from a computer program can be translated to a drawing, a drawing made by the logic gates changing their shapes, the very same thing may well happen to organic matter. I think the neurons and synapses are a good equivalent of that.

  10. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    Because much more powerful beings than us exist. It's the only logical solution.
    Atheists cope and seethe.

  11. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    why would a material be inherently conscious for this comparison to be made? consciousness is a different form of energy than matter

  12. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    It isnt possible. Our brains act as receivers for our consciousness, or your soul, which is your whole aura, which exists in a higher dimension of reality and acts as a 3 dimensional interface to control our bodies. We exist in the lowest tier of reality, the third dimension, which is the lowest dimension where life is even possible.
    Our brains operate quantum mechanically. Every thought that you have ever thought is an actual, real event that occurred in another reality, and your brain operates quantum mechanically via quantum entanglement to project that reality into your mind. Every and any thought you ever thought or can think, is real and actually happening in an alternate reality.

  13. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    Unironically study NDEs and realize that there actually is an afterlife and that we are eternal and will go to heaven unconditionally when we die and that life is like a video game or a simulation and you actually chose to come here and that the meaning of life is to learn to love and be kind and thrive here despite how hard it is in this world. So there is only the idea of the world, matter is an illusion.

    Here is a very persuasive argument for why NDEs are real:

    It emphasizes that NDErs are representative of the population as a whole, and when people go deep into the NDE, they all become convinced. As this article points out:

    https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/mysteries-consciousness/202204/does-afterlife-obviously-exist

    >"Among those with the deepest experiences 100 percent came away agreeing with the statement, "An afterlife definitely exists"."

    Since NDErs are representative of the population as a whole, and they are all convinced, then 100% of the population become convinced that there is an afterlife when they have a sufficiently deep NDE themselves. When you dream and wake up, you instantly realize that life is more real than your dreams. When you have an NDE, the same thing is happening, but on a higher level, as you immediately realize that life is the deep dream and the NDE world is the real world by comparison.

    Or as one person quoted in pic related summarized their NDE:

    >"As my soul left my body, I found myself floating in a swirling ocean of multi-colored light. At the end, I could see and feel an even brighter light pulling me toward it, and as it shined on me, I felt indescribable happiness. I remembered everything about eternity - knowing, that we had always existed, and that all of us are family. Then old friends and loved ones surrounded me, and I knew without a doubt I was home, and that I was so loved."

    Needless to say, even ultraskeptical neuroscientists are convinced by really deep NDEs.

  14. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    theres no such thing as consciousness you gaylord

  15. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    Well maybe you put too much stock in consciousness as a phenomenon. It is just an evolution of life. How life developed is more fascinating.

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      like says, your mistake is the false assumption that consciousness is separated from non-consciousness in some special way. Consciousness itself is special, sure, but in the same way that a sparkling crystal or the rolling waves at the beach are special. Because these beautiful, organized things have managed to exist in a universe that doesn't care whether or not they do, thanks to the particular ways that properties off matter interact.

      • 1 week ago
        Anonymous

        That is not what I said at all you nihilistic homosexual

  16. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    Well you have a limited and human-centric view of consciousness. Nature is kind of one big organism, we just define things based on our perception. Consciousness flows out of us as naturally as hair from our head, it's no different from any other evolutionary process. But also, our perspective on consciousness is limited by our egos, we place a lot of stock in our conscious thinking and neglect the unconscious, which is an equally if not much more interesting form of intelligence, and many forms of life seem to be better in touch with their intuition and unconscious processes than we are. In fact, you could make the argument that ego-driven consciousness has severely limited our ability to interface with nature and is a leading factor in our descent into materialist hell.

  17. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    I think these kind of questions aren't well formulated, and lead to these endless kind of undefined debates. What are you actually asking here?

    How do I see?
    How does a brain interpret its visual field?

    I mean what are you asking? I suspect it's something like
    >given a reductive materialist understanding of the world as a cold lifeless void of forces and atoms, how is it that qualia can exist?

  18. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    Biology Major here

    No one understand it and it doesn't really make sense. This is the biological concept of emergence. We can explain the process of what happens and why it happens thermodynamically. We can explain that cell membranes form because the lipid heads are polar and the tails are non-polar, ect. Life from atoms all the way up to organisms is very well understood in terms of how it developed, but in terms of how a group of neurons becomes conscious? No one really understands thats shit. Although it is my theory that this is simple because science doesn't yet have an explanation for it. All the talk about having a soul/spirit is mostly cope. In theology it is known as "The God of the Gaps" in which the gaps in science are used as evidence to justify some higher power.

    Kuzergeast has made a fairly good video on this topic if intrested.

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      Just adding onto this I realize the pic I attached probably isn't as informative in conveying what I was trying to show. In terms of how dead shit becomes living (The step form macromolecule to cell in the pic) everything follows the exact same laws of chemistry you learned about in highschool in terms of covalent and Ionic bonds. Then when you move up to groups of Tissue's and Organ's you realize that everything is still fundamentally following the exact same laws of chemistry and physics as that is all their component parts are capable of doing. Even the brain can only fire an action potential in a neuron if the concentration gradient of sodium and potassium within the cell hits 55ml

      tldr: everything about the human body is basically just following the laws of the universe. It heavily implies questionable things about wether or not humans have free will

  19. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    Isn't that exactly how you developed? Do you think the egg and sperm that joined to form you were conscious? How about the raw materials used to make them? Basically your entire body was made from food you ingested while growing. Atoms don't just appear when you're growing, all that mass comes from your food. It obviously wasn't conscious when it was crackers on your high-chair tray, but it had to become conscious at some point now that it's you, right?

    Although the obvious solution is that if you can't see where something non-conscious becomes something conscious is to remove the distinction. Either everything is conscious in some sense or nothing is.

  20. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    The entire universe is consciousness/god/infinity

  21. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    >non-conscious material
    Thats where you are wrong, kiddo

  22. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    Maybe none of us are actually conscious, and we just act and have the illusion of consciousness because of how our brains work and how complex they are. Food for thought?

  23. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    Cause it doesn't. The universe is conscious and we are bits of the universe experiencing itself. We aren't separate from the universe therefore we are it.

  24. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    dont tell anyone anon but every piece of matter has a very very slight conciousness, and I mean almost inexistent, but when put the right elements in the right places many times you get them working together and form brains and therefore consciousness
    I understand god as every piece of matter in existance because its the way to form the absolute consciousness, and matter is everything and god is everything

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      wrong

      https://i.imgur.com/1IMRkCr.png

      How is it possible for consciousness to develop out of non-conscious material? No matter how much I think about it, it doesn't make sense.

      everything in the entire everything is made of tiny dust. the tiny dust was breathed from god's mouth. the only thing that does exist is god. you and your body is also made of the tiny dust that is the same material that everything else is made of. the only thing left other than the dust of physical material and matter is consciousness. literally. so the only thing that exists is god, the consciousness who breathed the dust everywhere at the beginning of time, and the dust which is his body. your consciousness is also god's consciousness, you're one with him inside of him and he's inside you, but separate but together, just like how you are the same thing as the dust but separate but together. it's possible because god loves you and is also you yourself. the reason evil exists in the world is because of an evil angel that is one but separate just like you. that evil spirit(s) make people do things through possession. humanity was possessed at the beginning of their creation and caused them to be cursed with mortality and some other things. point is, any evil in the world is not necessarily done by god although it takes place within his body. but that's why it's like a virus and hell is the immune system, just like in your own body. your goal as a cell in god's body is to avoid the immune system and go with the flow of the body. connect to the tree of life, the root, the brain. become a cell who is aware of the body although you can't exactly talk to it because you're so small right now.

      • 1 week ago
        Anonymous

        however you can sort of pray and meditate and the body will talk to you silently through energy because he can feel you since you are one of his "cells"

  25. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    non-conscious material develops out of consciousness. Only solution.

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *