how do you buy gold? surely not by mail.
how do you buy gold? surely not by mail.
Falling into your wing while paragliding is called 'gift wrapping' and turns you into a dirt torpedo pic.twitter.com/oQFKsVISkI— Mental Videos (@MentalVids) March 15, 2023
I know this might sound crazy but some people leave their house
This will not be allowed in the future.
Was already not allowed in the past.
Here, the Bank of Mexico has a National Mint where you can buy. It's where I get my shiny rocks. Nothing in the world beats .999 mexican silver.
.999 Perth Mint does. That shit has been sold out and on permanent pre order in Canada, US and Aus for the past 5 years
Lol, your silver was just discovered to be so fucked with even the chinks are returning it and canceling future orders. Perth mint reputation is dead, will be dead company in 10-15 years. Sad
It was the gold, and off by like .01%
>BEIJING (Reuters) - The Shanghai Gold Exchange (SGE) on Wednesday backed Perth Mint in denying that the Australian processor had sold it “doped” gold bars and said it could take action to protect its reputation.
>Perth Mint said on Tuesday that there was no question about the value and purity of gold bars it has sold to customers in China, after it implemented new procedures following a review of its refining practices 2021.
>“Doping”, or “alloying” is an industry wide accepted practice to minimise the amount of pure gold above the 99.99% purity level in each bar.
>The Perth Mint states that it revised its policies in 2021 when the problem with the one bar came up. This particular bar had supposedly been red-flagged at the Mint to not be sent to the SGE, but was shipped out. At the time, the bars shipped to the SGE did not have an individual assay report. Since then, each bar shipped to the SGE is accompanied by the assay certificate.
Perth Mint sucks. I’ll never buy a Roo. MAybe a Krug, but not a bloody Roo
Perth mint has been caught faking the purity
>sells doped up Australium to the Chinese who return it
Silver is silver. Why would the country it's from matter?
>Why would the country it's from matter?
Nonsense, the Royal Canadian Mint is superior to both of yours.
What about super Mexican silver (American silver)? That beats the pants off of shitty pinata chocolate coins that you call silver.
that is neat can you just walk in and buy it, like a store? reasonable prices? taxes?
In my city there are probably 2 dozen bullion dealers, most you can just walk in with cash and walk out with gold/silver and don't even need to show ID
yeah i am talking specifically about the one in mexico city
Give me a reverse proof Libertad, Jose.
Do you buy Centenarios?
I got silver by mail. They just deliver it and make you sign for it. The contents is not listed.
I bought $7k worth of silver other day, mail guy looked at me delivering it to my door, “damn what is in this thing”, I just smiled.
Back in the early COVID days I started going HARD on metal buys...as was the fashion at the time for those of us who figured the israelite were about to crash everything. One time I had to pickup a box of about 9k worth of AG from my local USPS location cause the package lockers at my cuckpartment complex were already full.
>sweet, at least the mail carrier didn't just drop the shit on my doorstep and call it good. "There could be naggers here..." I said to myself, out loud
>go to USPS hub to pick up my metal
> bitch behind the counter comes back with my metal and loudly says (so she can be heard behind her mask;
"wow anon, this is a heavy box, is this box full of coins too? Lots of people buying precious metals these days..."
>wtf have a little fucking chill holyshit.exe
>me, think fast
"I don't know anything about all that, this is just some custom made tooling for my machine shop..."
Being that I essentially was living in a Memphis suburb and was one of the few whites in the Post Office at the time it was a little butt-puckering, NGL.
Too late for gold, you need guns. You will need to take out the Police Abrams that will roll down your home street within two weeks.
Sven the naggers and latinos in the police could never figure out how to properly drive an Abrams without it immediately breaking down on them.
>You will need to take out the Police Abrams
they aren't going anywhere they ran out of gas
What is an abram?
An American tank.
don't waste your money on gold or silver unless you are schizo
the dollar devalues through inflation, gold retains it's value.
I dont get this, the price of gold fluctuates i guess youre holding for like 30 years or something. Even then why cant the gold market be manipulated like everything else?
can't print gold out of thin air.
Ok satan but that doesnt mean its manipulation proof
>Ooo sorry goy we have enough gold right now dont need to buy it back
true, china could dump it and it would become worthless overnight temporarily.
yeah, but wouldn't that completely fuck their economy?
A finite resource wouldn't lose much value regardless of attempts at market manipulation
have gold/silver coins to act as direct currency.
itr shouldn't be too hard to find people who are willing to trade with it.
Yeah dump on the next tard. If it ever gets that bad you need bullets food and water
sure, but what are you going to trade with then?
do you really want to trade your bullets for food?
>inb4 have a stockpile of food, bullets and water
sounds great on paper, but not in practice.
unless you are living in a vault with more supplies you will need in your lifetime, you will need to trade for supplies.
You can use your gun to get supplies
You actually can though. What is Basel 3 and why have israelites stopped it passing for the past 5 years?
ok, what about diamonds?
>the price is manipulated by the diamond cartel
what about oil too?
>price is manipulated by OPEC
can't they do something similar to gold, too?
diamonds aren't that finite of a resource though, one of the greatest israelite scams ever crafted.
According to a israeliteler I know Diamonds are a huge scam. Unless it's a unique piece israelitelers will just melt a second hand ring for the gold. Emeralds are more valuable.
The Earth makes both of those.
More diamonds and oil can be made but not gold.
minority mindset is a poo in loo that has a youtube channel that if you can get over him being a poo in loo has is very good at breaking down how this stuff works that even his fellow poo's can understand, though be prepared that he repeats himself a lot drilling the basics into stupid poo heads.
>gold retains it's value
No, it doesn't. If it did, then it's valuation vs USD would have continually commensurately risen proportionally to that of the expansion of the money supply. This has not happened. August 2020 it was 2070. The money supply has certainly expanded since then yet the gold USD valuation has actually DECREASED. So you will likely respond that the USD valuation doesn't matter and that gold is the REAL money, but in point of fact, things are valuated in dollars in terms of anything you want to buy with your gold. So if your gold ounce doesn't buy more than it did 3 years ago, say more groceries at the grocery store, then it in fact HASN'T retained PURCHASING POWER per unit (the REAL important metric), and it HASN'T retained PURCHASING POWER (value is a subjective thing and is not the best metric, ie you could greatly value some old family relic which is nearly worthless to me). To be fair NO thing, commodity, currency, good, service, has risen in valuation (or purchasing power per unit, or per discrete act or set of acts in the case of a service). This (the lack of goods and services proportionally rising relative to money supply, not just the price of gold) is largely because of things like derivatives by the way, which are fake product and not a good or service, which absorb currency and hide the natural price mechanism of a money supply vs amount of product relation. And the fact that physical dollars are a TINY % of those in circulation, something like 3%, and the fact that bank created deposit money is not in circulation. IF the commensurate amount of physical cash relative to created debt money that has been created were injected into circulation, THEN there would be hyperinflation, and your gold oz would be worth an order of magnitude + vs USD valuation, as would just about every other good and service. The down side would be that PRICE INFLATION would also be an order of magnitude + higher.
Autismo. Here, let me explain it to you; the idea is that if you have gold, or other precious metals, then you are protected in the event of a currency collapse. If the USD hyper-inflates and dies, then at least you can trade your gold for the currency that replaces it, rather than just ending up flat broke.
>the idea is that if you have gold, or other precious metals
The purchasing power of ANY good and service which you have previously bought will rise in terms of the USD retard.
Yes but I'm sick of autists saying gold and silver are good hedges against inflation. They don't protect against inflation, they protect against economics prolapse.
agree. but that works only in economies, which use gold as base for own monetary. else its just a target on your forehead..
There's nothing special about gold as a commodity or barterable item besides it's durability. A role of toilet paper previously bought is also going to greatly increase in valuation in terms of CURRENT dollar valuation in a hyper inflation situation. That's all that gold would be doing as well. It wouldn't be like a raise in dollar valuation because of demand increase or supply decline or scarcity. This sort of valuation is REAL value per unit increase.
You fucking asshole, in the event of hyper inflation the ounce of silver you bought for $25 is now worth $25000. Don't believe me? Try to buy anm ounce after hyperiflation see how much it cost. You must be some kind of shill or really stupid.
It may not keep up with inflation but apart from the occasional blips gold always goes up. Gold isn't a investment like a stock, you're not supposed to buy gold and sell it 2 years later, it's protection. You sell it when you don't have any other choices. Every serious trader has gold in his portfolio, it's the first thing you should buy before going to the stock market. If you don't you may as well play texas hold'em.
I didn't say that having some gold is a bad thing. I have bought and sold gold before myself. I am more of a silver enjoyer though, At any rate, I am saying the idea that it (gold) is some special thing is largely a myth. And in terms of continually increasing ones purchasing power to offset the price of inflation, which is a must, it (gold) is certainly NOT the best way to go if you have any skill at things like day trading. Even if you are always trading back into USD, if the amount of USD holdings increase are outpacing the price inflation, then you are increasing purchasing power. Of course, in a situation of HYPER inflation of prices, this method becomes impossible, but that isn't the case currently. Of course, there are those that are NOT talented traders, and then they eat shit and lose purchasing power. So YES to having some things like gold and silver, but NO to it being the best hustle in terms of proactively increasing you total purchasing power as an individual.
Plan for the worst, hope for the best. Make sure you've got some long-term storage food and water supplies, make sure you have some physical gold and tradeable items. But then put those in a closet and get on with your life. Stop looking for the global disaster that's going to bring back Jesus under every bed or nook and cranny.
I dunno my dude, I think about taking out a good chunk of my savings I have with some investment firm, paying off my credit card debt and buying some silver with whatever's left of the chunk I got out.
Really have no confidence in the market rn, I want to buy some property but everything is fucked sideways especially with the interest rates.
Hey retard. You realize your debt evaporates of the dollar is devalued right? If anything you should be debt maxing
Slow Bank collapse will cause deflation.
I am a schizo and I hold gold, some silver, XRP (the Standard) and XLM. I prefer to have as little money in the bank as whilst I am a schizo, I am also antisemitic.
nahh.. you are inbreed retard..
>unless you are schizo
so what you're saying is everyone here should do it
>don't waste your money on gold or silver unless you are schizo
This. Why else would there be so much organized opposition to people owning them?
listen here, glowie, you either fuck off or im beating your ass with my 1kg gold bar
You must invest in shitcoins
Sign me up
i did once. by mail.
a special armored package delivery service did it. so that exists.
had to sign off & ID myself on receiving the parcel.
i think per mail there's low max amounts in the few thousands where you can do it.
>a special armored package delivery service did it.
kek how much fucking gold did you order you mad man?
I want to put my fiat bux into assets and not keep it as a liability in a bank
Amount isn't that important, whether you mail-order guns, ammo or gold the type of insurance of the package changes the used delivery service. If it's UPS or DHL it's just an amazon package with ID-check.
Sounds like a great way to get on Mohammed's and Ivan's radar for a home invasion.
prospect you lazy nagger
here in Germany i just went to my local bank, it was even cheaper than buying in a goldshop which was quit weird. I bought 10 Krugerrand for 13k back then, they took the money from my bank account and i got a call like 3 days later and picked it up in person.
You americans really get your gold via mail ? Dont your banks sell gold or dont you have goldshops ?
You "paid" numbers on a computer screen for real, actual gold. Let that sink in.
so now your government has a paper trail you own gold lol
It has a paper trail that he owned gold at the time of the purchase. Nothing more. If he says he fed the gold to the ducks in the park, what can they do?
they have a trail that he BOUGHT gold.
Alas, he lost it in a boating accident
German banks offer the option to send it per mail too. Insured, on their own risk.
Never buy from some random online gold shop. There's a considerable fraud risk and getting the money back is not always possible.
Dude the government now knows you have it. Ffs
What are they gonna do, take it? No refunds
And why not?
What will the people do when the government announces a confiscation?
I'm asking seriously.
What tools do you have to protect yourself?
Look at the Netherlands. The population at large and by a huge percentage is on the side of the farmers. They are protesting and have been for months(it has been longer than 1 year for sure).
And the Regime is still taking their land, still committing a suicide.
What will the people do when the Regime takes their gold/homes/land?
It would be a festival of violence
Maybe. We will see.
So far the weak men are hell bent on creating bad times.
Sure they will forge strong men but how long this will take, nobody knows.
So if the strong men rise up and take the power soon I will be extricate.
I'm hoping for it strongly.
But I understand that it may take a generational change and thus may happen in 20 years or 10 years.
Netherlands have nothing to protect themselves with.
Local coin shop dealers. They all have gold and silver on hand in decent quantity
I don't want coins, I want bars.
I can order any size bars at my local dealer, to bad that only silver bars can i afford
There are refiners, big ones, that will happily sell you bars. Look for a refiner in your area, see if you can go in and buy or if you can order from them.
If you are owner of a company they won't charge you tax(only coins are exempt from tax in my fucking state). I deal with a refiner directly and they do take public at large appointments
What's wrong with getting things delivered by post you fucking cretin. You do know you get tracking and insured delivery. Maybe the mail systems aren't as good in the third world..
Oy vey. Don't buy silver or gold.
no uhave to pretend for the day ur not a freak and leave the house like normal folk lol
I'd have to drive 300 miles to the nearest mint.
I have this thing called the internet
I can order it from a gold dealer in my city
They deliver it to my house in secure delivery trucks because that's a perfectly reasonable amount of precaution in a 1st world country
not everyone lives in a city.
What is this internet thing? I never heard of it.
Dunno where you'd buy gold or silver here in bongland without getting ripped off.
Sure it's just numbers on a screen for physical value but I wanna get as much as I can.
can't you go to the royal mint or some bank and buy some?
Oh aye and get fucked on price, sure.
8.4% more expensive
That's still an extra £50 out my pocket.
>£682 / £629 = 108.4%
The 500g bar is 15% more expensive:
>362/(630 / 2) = 1.149
So I'm guessing that the more you buy, the less they'll israelite you on the price?
Anyway if your country has 8-10% inflation you'll lose that 8% anyway:
> The Consumer Prices Index including owner occupiers' housing costs (CPIH) rose by 8.8% in the 12 months to January 2023, down from 9.2% in December 2022.
I don't know Romabro, maths has never been my strong point.
I know most Anons stack 1oz's but I wonder if grabbing 5oz bars is better value for money.
I mean it works out in my head.
This is £115 for a 5oz bar, whereas most 1oz coins go for around £25-£30. I figure you're paying for the portability, easier handling, and gay design on it.
Use an online calculator to see how much money you'll lose to inflation to see if buying this will have been worth it. Also I think it's useful to think of it in terms of percentages and not absolute value.
The effect of ten years of 8% inflation on £100:
>100.0 (current year)
>92.00 (end of current year / beginning of next year)
Call me a dumbarse if I'm being one but doesn't that likely mean that buying the silver as is, it will 'retain' its value, whereas the fiat I bought it with will, by the beginning of next year, lose 8% of its value assuming things get worse for paper money?
yeah, but that depends on how the price of silver will change over time according to supply and demand. People will also buy more metal during financial or political crises. It gets complicated. If it matches the rate of inflation, the value will "freeze" at that point and your investigation is safe in that regard. If it grows faster than inflation, you'll make a profit. But I don't have an education in finance or economics so it's just my basic idea of it. Check this chart:
Compare it to how inflation has affected the pound from 1968 til today.
Well, I figure so long as I hold onto it and always keep in mind what I paid for it then I'm golden when a hard time comes along.
you don't make a profit if the price of silver and gold goes up, holy fucking shit, the amount of morons on this board. The nominal price of silver and gold go up, and if everything else is going up in price then you haven't made any profit, you've RETAINED YOUR VALUE and you haven't lost it to inflation. Fuck me are you shills paid to spread misinformation like this? Anyone buying silver and gold to make a profit instead of preserving wealth, you're all going to sell when the time comes and make a loss, you'll cry about it and I'll have nothing to say except you're a fucking traitor.
>and if everything else is going up in price
so if everything else is going up in price by 5% and gold by 6% compared to last year, how could you say that you've only retained your value?
dumb fuck, why are you hung up over minor math? Yeah you dumb bitch, if your gold goes up higher than the rate of inflation then yeah you can profit, but that's not how it usually goes retard. You know when that happens? It happens after a crash, but why am I explaining this to you when you cant even do math yourself? The whole point was that right now in an inflationary environment, working on averages and generalising, gold is just about going up with currency printing or it's below, which indicates that you can preserve wealth, it's not an investment like owning land and renting it out is. Generally, gold and silver match inflation, because it is used as money if not industrially, it doesn't go higher unless there is more demand for it that is monetary or industrial, but the fact that you had to ask me a basic question that is literally basic math, tells me that silver and gold is too complicated for your dumbass to understand or handle. Fucking spaniards can't even watch one simple video to help themselves.
Fuck off with your dumb questions.
I used McDonald's for the memes, and it's also a good investment for fighting inflation aka a Blue Chip stock. But imagine it in a burgerbrain the sandwich back then was completely higher quality but for a fraction of the price. If you sold that same quarter pounder today of much lesser quality it would be worth $6 dollars. Gold is the 5 guys burgers, burger. The quality stays the same but the price goes up or down depending on the percieved value of the future dollar.
you sound new you fucking retard.
Check out Mike Maloney's Hidden Secrets of Money on youtube. If you have questions like these, then fuck off away from gold and silver because you're useless. If you understand what money is, then you'll understand how silver is the lynchpin to this whole unstable market, you'll realise what money is and why silver and gold are the optimum form of money. Once you understand money, you'll figure out the difference between real value price and the nominal price. I'm sick and tired of helping ungrateful cunts so that's all the help I'm going to give, and for any skeptics, i'm just going to agree with them and scare them away from precious metals, because that means there's more for the true stackers.
listen fellow bong, only buy coins as they are not subject to capital gains.
t. long time stacker
I don't know what that means mate.
Some government israelite shit I imagine.
if in the future you sell you rocks and make a profit you will have to pay a tax on that profit, unless its a coin
I wouldnt worry, HMRC wont exist its will be the UN and civil war by then.
CGT allowance is well within having a few bars, even when it is halved in the next few years. Even a £5k allowance would let you offload twenty 10oz bars a year
No one is saving you.
Do you have to pay CGT in bongland with state minted gold/silver coins? I know they have some different bullshit when it comes to bars and they also screw you with VAT on silver
Gold sovereign and gold/silver Britannia coins are CGT free, nothing else is thougg
Usually the premium over spot is lower for higher masses of PMs. This is especially noticeable with gold and platinum.
what the fuck are you talking about you dumb fucking nagger kike? Why are you comparing a derivative to actual cost of silver being sold? How does that make sense you dumb cunt. Go compare it to other sellers instead of a fake derivative designed to manipulate the price of silver down to create an illusion that it isn't scarce and worth much, so your dumb ass doesn't pile into it.
>The spot rate is the price quoted for immediate settlement on an interest rate, commodity, a security, or a currency. The spot rate, also referred to as the "spot price," is the current market value of an asset available for immediate delivery at the moment of the quote.
What's wrong with it?
Nope, not even going to answer.
You refuse to watch this:
I won't be answering your questions, I will just agree with you and say silver and gold are useless and only idiots like me should buy it while smart spaniards like you should call me an idiot for buying and holding it.
I watched those videos a few years ago and I vaguely remember he said there is so much money in the US that the price of gold should've been way higher, which means the metals are undervalued and/or their price manipulated. I vaguely remember some chart he showed in that video or another.
If you want to talk you can calm down and come up with a real argument and if I'm wrong (I probably am since I don't have an education in finance or economics which I mentioned ITT when I talked to the other bong anon) I'll gladly accept it.
lmao uneducated spanish chimp. Imagine being told one plus one equals two, and you have difficulty remembering a decade later what the answer is. Lmao.
This dude is saying some real retarded shit.
thats still somewhat cheapo
Atkinson's for gold, silver is a total ripoff though thanks to 20% VAT
i buy from the Royal Mint, you can also have them store it for you or you can have digital account (0.5% cost) look into it Anon.
At least get yourself a silver coin with the new King on it (about £30) when they come out.
It works out cheaper to buy it from Bairds.
10 1oz coins from Bairds goes at £220 +£50 odd VAT.
The Royal Mint goes for the same at £270 + £55 odd VAT.
I imagine it's mostly to do with having Lizzie and Charles faces on the coins.
Indeed, i have purchased rocks from other places and hunted prices trying to find a deal, i even bought silver from Peru! but i will only buy from The Royal Mint now as i will never have to worry about authenticity. For me it is worth the extra cost. Also you might want to think about when how and if you will sell in the future or will you pass your treasure on to your family?
Rocks are a long term hold, at least 10 years possibly for life. Think about it before you buy.
Chards and Bullion by Post are what I personally use
omg didnt you know digital is better
and that soi is a bad word
and that talks abou9t guns that violates the thought crimes of the us governmetn means perm bans on /k/?
i have 20k in bank and a 200k home what would u do just convert 20k to gold and keep house ???
keep a years worth of living expenses in savings, buy assets that can give you passive income and invest the rest.
How can you generate passive income and beat inflation with 10-50k?
I don't know anything about what 10-50k in Romania is.
Dollars. Also I think I can invest in the American stock market right?
I don't know what you can purchase with 10-50k USD in Romania. Real estate and land lording.
Well thanks anyway. I can afford a shitty apartment in Bucharest, yeah.
>How to Get Passive Income
>People typically generate passive income in one of three main ways:
>Investing. When you invest, you use money you already have to make more money.
>Asset building. This means acquiring an asset that earns money passively over time.
>Asset sharing. Sharing in this sense means selling or renting out assets that you already own.
invest in ETF's, mutual funds, Bonds, or put away in a high interest savings account for 3-5 years.
>invest in ETF's, mutual funds, Bonds, or put away in a high interest savings account for 3-5 years.
Thanks anon I'll look into this.
only do that if you are somewhat assured that you won't need that money, because it will be locked up and taking it out will cost you heavy in penalties fees. Basically only invest what you can live without for 3-5 years.
You can take out a loan with your stocks and bonds as collateral if you need access to the cash. Over collateralise it by a large margin and the interest rate will be so dirt cheap it isn't even worth paying off the principal, just let it inflate away.
I get what collateral means, but how does over-collateralizing work? The loan + collateral becomes a new collateral for another loan or what?
I borrow 10k cash but put up 15-20k worth of stocks as collateral.
thanks, now I get it.
I should say that ETF's are like index funds that are tradable stocks where you aren't penalized for trading unlike the latters, they pay less dividends, because they know what makes them money with your money, where you don't know what makes money. They pay out right now about 3% of your investment per year.
>They pay out right now about 3% of your investment per year.
which means instead of losing 6% of your moneys value due to inflation you only lost 3%
All those come with their own market dynamics and risks. Make sure you understand how interest rates are made, how they behave in the long term and how they influence the amount of money that flows into or out of the stock markets on the large scale.
So I should read about how central banks and the other banks control the flow of money using interest rates right? And then the next step would be to understand how large countries like the US or economic areas like the EU affect the global market?
that's all kindergarten this that is self-evident by reading the news every day.
So you disagree with the anon I replied to? Or maybe I interpreted his advice in the wrong way
you bitch, you fucking bitch. You ignorant bitches, and you fucking unhelpful stacker bitches. I fucking hate all of you ignorant cunts.
Here you go you spanish fucking loser.
That's episode 1, watch the entire series. Understand what money is, yes it's an abstract idea, but a real thing that serves real purpose in the real world, and thus it has rules it must adhere to.
Once you've watched that series, go read "A history of Central banking and the enslavement of mankind".
I'm unwilling to cater to you young cunts any more, all you want to do is profit, you don't really want to rebel and create a new world, you want to profit in this shitty system, so go do your own research cunts.
I'm not interested in your shill video. And calm down before you try to present your arguments. You have the emotional intelligence of a ghetto nagger.
yeah exactly, you're not interested in silver and gold, you're here to FUD. Don't buy silver and gold, it makes you an emotional ghetto nagger like me.
See folks, this is what I mean, you can give these spanish naggers all the tools you want, but they'll never evolve past being a nagger chimp and understand how the tools work, they'll just look at the screwdriver and be like "yeah but how do I hammer this nail in with a screwdriver?".
Buy a diversified portfolio of ETFs. Something local, US market and rest of the world market should do it, keep buying regularly and reinvest the dividends.
alright, I'll look into that thanks!
If you buy anything in the market for the foreseeable future you will be sucking dick at a truck stop within 2 years
I only have a few 10s of thousands of dollars wtf should I do with them? We have 8-10% inflation here.
buy some silver or gold with a good chunk of your savings that you will not be needing to use for awhile. If you have no idea what you are doing it is the safest play as you will get destroyed in this dogshit fake ass market that has been going on since covid. Use some small amount of your savings and learn the market with it at the same time.
I'm not against putting some of the money into gold or silver, but I wouldn't do anymore than about 15% as a hedge against downturns. If the goal is long-term, returns will be better with a diversified portfolio of ETFs
From what I've talked to anons ITT and from what I know I'm leaning more towards your opinion.
I try not to listen to anyone 100% because I know everyone's biased. I know this triggers people and they get offended but I think this is the wisest thing to do.
So it seems that if my goal is long-term investment then if I buy ETFs instead of individual stocks I'll do some of that "hedging" people talk about right? Not placing all my eggs in 1 basket, so I'm covered in case some company or industry gets fucked.
And ETFs track those indices I've been hearing about on the financial news, like S&P 500, right? I still have to do some more research because I don't get why ETFs are considered stocks. Are they a bundles of bundles? AFAIK stocks already are a bundle of shares in 1 company, and ETFs seems to me to be a stock of stocks?
lmao the gyppo still in here asking questions instead of trying to educate himself on the resources provided. God I hope you buy those ETFs and stocks. I'm hoping people keep their money in the stockmarket. Buys me more time to buy assets.
I'm still not buying gold from that homosexual, shill.
lmao no one told you to buy gold from him you insane moronic gypsy fuck. This is what I mean, idiots do not want to learn about precious metals, they only want to profit.
I'm not what your point is. If I make you angry just don't give me replies
the point is you're retarded to not watch the video and make your own conclusions. He gives you all the information needed but because you're butthurt, you refuse to watch the video and you lie saying you watched it before. What a moron. Get the fuck out of this thread with your nonsense you gypsy.
I noticed you went from calling me a Spaniard to calling me a gypsy and a moron. What's your point?!
look you dumb spanish gypsy, I told you what the point was, you don't want to do the research.
A history of Central Banking and the enslavement of manking - Stephen Mitford Goodson
The Creature from Jekyll Island, a second look at the Federal Reserve - G. Edward Griffin
The Hidden Secrets of Money - Mike Maloney.
The first two are books, the last is a video series. What you're being told by anyone here shouldn't be trusted, you should be looking at these sources to understand, you should be doing basic math in your head, visualising and extrapolating the data given to project into the future. You keep asking what the point I'm making is, and the point has been, do your research and take these guys research, instead of coming here and being an argumentative jackass.
AFAIK "argumentative" means something like "prone to arguing" and has a nuance that makes me think of heated debates. You sound like the argumentative one here not me.
I agree these systems are rigged against the poorfags.
I know I don't know shit about this and I'd admitted that before you even called me out for "being a shill".
This is why I was asking questions (which you could easily ignore). I got some very good answers ITT and they saved me a shit ton of time bumbling through the internet and random books, videos, courses and lectures.
bro, I apologise for getting mad, I only want the best for you, because if you free yourself, you are now my brother in arms against the kike cabal, but you make me so mad that you don't want to do the hard work. I gave you a few resources, because those resources will open up your mind to the history of money, how it's used to defraud you, and who the players are. If you just come here to get the important snippets of information without truly knowing what it's based on, you're going to have holes in your game, and one day some slimey snake will talk you into a scam, which you could easily see through if you had checked out some of these resources.
I still highly advocate episodes 1 to 4 of Mike Maloneys Hidden Secrets of money to see who the players are, how the game is being played and how you can protect yourself. I advocate reading "A History of Central Banking and the Enslavement of mankind" so you can see how it was like before we were capture by debt based systems and you can understand that the systems before were actually modern, whereas right now we are using a theft based regressive model that cheats the working class of their money, time, labour and energy. I recommend "Creature from Jekyll Island" so you can truly see how this system was built, how these people acted.
IF you don't want none of that, that's on you, but you're doing yourself a disservice. You romanian gypsy nagger lmao.
reading all the Fritz Springmeyer books along with like you mentioned, history of jeckyl island, the Rothschild family biography by Ferguson
you don't have to go balls deep, but skimming over these every now and then, you will keep learning new things, you'll be amazed at how many scams are the same but just a different flavour of nonsense.
yeah, it's always the same shit in a different uniform, I'm thinking we might be able to see something different though, we will all have to work at it and be stubborn about it, won't be easy, but we have never been closer to freedom than right now
I'll check out your books too. I'm just biased against Maloney because he seems like a fear mongering shill to me, then I noticed he owns a company that sells precious metals or something. That's what I remember from watching his videos lol. The parts where he talked about the crazy level of inflation and the history of PMs and fiat did seem legit though.
IGNORE ANYONES PREDICTIONS. It's not their predictions that you need to be focused on, it's the information and education they provide you.
thanks anon. I'll keep an open mind and check out the stuff you've posted here, test it, and see if I can come up with my own predictions. No worries, I try to listen to people even when they're rude or emotional.
Buying an ETF means you are buying a share in a fund which invests in the companies that makes you the index you are tracking. Take an S&P etf. They buy shares in the companies on the s&P and rebalance their portfolio when companies drop in and out of the index (it's the top 500 companies in the US, companies fall out of come in all the time) usually you pay a small fee (less that 1%) but in return you get a dividend from the ETF (a proportional share of the dividends they receive from investing in the top 500 companies). You then take those dividends and buy more of the share in the ETF. This is compound interest. That's how you build wealth. Gold and silver are a hedge meaning when markets go down, gold and silver usually go up, so when your portfolio is down, it won't be down as much as if you were 100% stocks. Yes, you can stack 100% gold and silver, but it won't pay dividends and you won't build wealth, just store your value.
thanks for the thorough explanation anon.
No worries, don't listen to the doom-mongers in this thread, the secret to long term wealth creation is exactly as I have laid out. It's not hard to understand and even easier to do. Just make sure you have a long term mindset.
this works in the current system right now because it's all leverage, the compound interest is other idiots piling in and providing money that is taken from them and given to someone else as profit. This game can't work in the presence of silver and gold being actual money, because the idea of money growing is perverse, you either have economic input and created money or made money, or you don't input anything and you make no money. The reason why bankers and the rich hate precious metals, is that if they run out of money, and they need money, that makes you above them when they come to you cap in hand begging for money, and then it truly burns the rich peoples asses that you'd dare ask them to do some work in return for money that cannot be printed. The reason these shit stains love fiat is because when they run out of fiat, they just print more for themselves, they don't need to come to you and be humble. So for now, while the system works, all the interest being made is being made on currency being pulled out of thin air, wealth being pulled out from the future to pay for now, but when everyone goes to pull out their money, that's when they all realise the money isn't there and neither is the interest. The whole reason people are stacking right now is to break that system of debt and go back to a system of MONEY, which is precious metals like silver, gold and copper.
No it's not. Dividends are the profits of a public company that are shared amongst its shareholders. If a company makes things or buys and sells things, they do so for a profit and that money is given back to the shareholders of the company in the form of dividends. You are conflating the monetary system, financial system and shareholdings. Seriously, spend some time to understand the differences.
those profits are fiat currency pulled out from the future via debt. We live in a debt based system. This is what I mean, smart fucks who don't even understand how money works because they know the scams but they don't know the source of the currency. The currency sloshing around in the system being used to pay for goods and services are debtor notes, there is more notes out there than goods and services, the currency out there floating around is all debt currency, pulled out in loans, mortgages or whatever, someone elses earnings depends on someone elses spendings, in a debt based system, if everyone goes to pay their debts, the system breaks.
I'm sure people will argue with this, and all I can say is they don't understand money, but the day of reckoning comes closer each day.
Mate I know how the system works, I have a degree in economics and work in the industry and completely understand the system. You don't seem to realise the pain and suffering your approach will cause. Debt itself isn't really a problem, it's just people borrowing money against future earnings, everyone will have to pay back their debts eventually but it's impossible for everyone to pay off their debts all at once because they haven't actually earned that money yet. I don't necessarily disagree with you re: sound money, it's just that it's unrealistic in the strict form you are describing.
the economics degree holders are the fucking worst. The people who profit from the system are the worst israelite of them all, they defend the system with their bullshit because it profits them. Thanks for admitting you're an economics degree holder but also saying it's all simple to understand, which is true, and begs the question why anyone should respect your degree in economics when you know money isn't complicated.
What I'm asking for, a sound money system is not unrealistic, it has been around before many times and has resulted in the nations that use it being highly prosperous before the central bankers destroy their country from within or from the outside with war.
You don't disagree with me, so don't take it personally that I think your degree means nothing. All this 'money' out here isn't even money, it's currency, borrowed from the future because the system is massively overleveraged, and the longer people play this game, the worse things get year by year, people can try and get their profit and then exit the system, but they'll be living in a world of crooks that are constantly thieving from each other which makes the world a shitter place. I'm sure you know how money works, but so do I, more intricately than most of these clown degree holders, the economics degree is essentially brainwashing to keep people in the system and teach them how to scam each other in big ponzi schemes and through derivatives and futures markets. All sorts of ponzi scheme shit that economics degree holders are trained to hold in high regard even if they know it's all inflationary, and for it to be inflationary it means theft is taking place, so when a economics degree holder advocates for the system, he's advocating for theft in the system to continue, whereas I'm trying to get people to understand they are NOT to be stolen from, any inflation is just theft.
You are welcome to think my degree is worthless, yet it allows me to earn a lot of money making decisions that affect everyone's lives and for the better. I also studied music and mathematics, I have 3 degrees. I may even go back to study an English language degree to be able to call myself a polymath, but that's just ego talking.
I learnt many things in my economics degree and I actually agree with you that most economics degree holders are just brainwashed into the economic orthodoxy but I read Mises, keynes and smith. I didn't just accept the stuff I was told I went searching for all economic ideas, shit I even read Marx (boring as fuck btw). It is only midwits who accept the othodoxy and then parrot the mainstream line like they thought up some grand idea not understanding that they have been duped into believing the lies the system wanted them to believe.
I also think you are conflating economics with finance. Derivatives and futures are a financial product, they don't really have much to do with economics. For example, I studied things like game theory, behavioural economics, macroeconomic policy (how government policy affects the economy) etc. I didn't really do much financial market stuff, but again, that stuff isn't that complicated they just want you to think it's complicated.
worthless in the sense that it doesn't impart true knowledge, for sure it opened doors for you, but the coming people in uni right now are having their degree value inflated away by the system just like their currency, and not only that, there aren't infinite jobs for all these degree holders. I respect your music and math degree a lot more, especially your math degree, in fact my opinion of you just went through the roof knowing you have a math degree, because not once have you said I was factually wrong on anything, you even admitted that I was right in the sense that it's all debt currency out there, and the reason you were able to do that and put aside your ego was because you have a maths degree. Economics degree holders are fucking thieves, liars and morons, you thankfully have a degree that is actually something valuable, math. Anyone who does basic math and extrapolates from that will find more truth in this world than any other piece of information will give them.
Thank you anon for doing maths, I salute you. We need more people like you who take personal responsibility, without basic maths, the average person is an ignorant fuckwit waiting to be robbed by the israelite.
Totally agreed, when I studied math I was able to see the flawed assumptions that most modern economic theory was grounded upon and that led me to researching and reading more widely than the textbooks we were assigned. To give you an idea of what I do, I evaluate economic policy so basically pulling apart retarded ideas and telling them the unintended consequences of their hairbrained policies.
LOOK PEOPLE! This is a maths degree holder telling you the truth. The system is based on math, basic math will expose the entire system if you can visualise things for yourself and move parts of a system around in your head. Math is the true foundation to understanding all these fucking ponzi schemes, and the best thing about Math is that you don't need the degree, the truth is self evident with maths, it's the greatest tool in your toolbox, and once you open your eyes to the system based on the math, it will be hard to go back to being ignorant sheep to be fleeced by the israelite and their central banks.
Don't forget what this NewZealander Math guy said earlier, it's all so simple but they want you to believe it's complicated. He's got a math degree and he's telling you the truth, and I've got no maths degree and I'm telling you to use maths to see the truth. This is why I'm so pushy on getting people to understand basic percentages and ratios and also watching episodes 1 to 4 of Mike Maloney's Hidden Secrets of Money, they give you all the moving parts to assemble in your head to create a model, and once someone understands the model, they will be disgusted at the true scale of human suffering just so some rich elites can be parasites on the rest of the working world.
nature can be conquered through measure and number
the angel Gabriel speaking to Rene Descartes
To go E you an example, my current portfolio is split 30/30/30/10
30% ASX200, 30% S&P 500, 30% rest of the world minus US Stocks, 10% PMGOLD which is physically stored Perth Mint Gold. I also have a bunch of stacked gold/silver I inherited from my dad, but I don't count that in my portfolio (maybe $200k-$250kAUD worth, I dunno haven't counted it in a while, it's buried in a safe place.
This means that when Australian markets are up, my ASX200 ETF goes up same for the rest. Right now my US ETF is being hammered (good time to buy more) which my ASX ETF is sort of flatlining but my rest.of the world minus US ETF is powering along with good gains. I'm making between. 4%-8% dividend return on my ETFs basically keeping pace with Inflation at the moment and my PMGOLD stock is doing really well, leaving me up overall without taking into account my dividend returns.
So my investments are diversified, I'm still making income in the form of dividends which I just reinvest when they come in (quarterly) and I'm still making capital gains on my entire portfolio. Sure, I might be able to make better returns by investing in riskier markets (like emerging markets or tech stocks) but this way I have solid growth (8%-10% per annum over the last 5-10years) but compound interest does all the work while I try and save as much money as possible to keep pouring into my portfolio.
Thanks for the effort posts anon, I'll read more about this stuff and use your portfolio as a starting point. I think it'll be very beneficial for me.
You sound like you know your shit.
I see. I just watched a few of his interviews and other videos like this one:
but I haven't read his books yet.
His point about compound interest stuck with me.
>who don't have time to trawl
I think it's relevant to this part too albeit only to some degree since I agree that we can't really dedicate ourselves 100% to it like he could:
>The CEO of Berkshire Hathaway, when asked once about the key to success, pointed to a stack of books and said, “Read 500 pages like this every day. That’s how knowledge works. It builds up, like compound interest. All of you can do it, but I guarantee not many of you will do it.”
>“I read and think,” Buffett once said. “So I do more reading and thinking, and make less impulse decisions than most people in business. I do it because I like this kind of life.”
No worries, as I said before, it's not complex, the israelites in the financial system want you to think it's difficult and complex, but it's not.
Not gonna matter if he buys now and in less than two years the market is down by 10-15%. I would rather put money into a fire than be long on anything right now. Even if the market does not crash and pumps 10% still not going to beat inflation
You completely miss the point. If you're holding for 20-30 years, and buying more the entire down period, it's not even going to matter. As a bonus he is earning dividends the entire time, and with reinvestment of the dividends into more shares it's likely his dividend income will out weight the unrealised losses he may have. You only have a loss if you sell after 2 years. The fact you can't understand this makes me think you are financially illiterate or 13 yo
Yes and my point is to wait put money in something safe the market falls and you take your tucked away pm or even like a cd or bonds and then buy when the market has come back to reality.
Studies have shown that people who try to time the market under perform index funds and ETFs who just track the market. What matters most if TIME IN THE MARKET. The longer you have money in the market, the better your returns. That's because of dividends and compound interest. You can try and catch the falling knife, or you can just invest and forget. Time and time again it is proven that investing and forgetting will put perform people who try and time the market . It's not rocket science as much as israelites want you to think it is
Is this similar to what Warren Buffet's saying?
Yeah basically. His approach is a little different, he invests in individual stocks which he sees as undervalued. But it is his day job to do this. For us plebs who don't have time to trawl through company reports calculating the intrinsic value of the stock vs current share price, investing in an index fund and reinvesting the dividends over a long period of time will be safer and more profitable than trying to pick stocks and time the bottom and tops of the market.
25 years ago in 1998 one dow share was around 9000 dollars it is 32k now gold was 300 dollars in 98 that would get you 30 oz of gold for one dow share that would be worth 60k today
How do you buy one dow share? Oh wait you can't. But regardless, you aren't taking into account the amount of dividends you would have earned over that period of time. I don't know the exact amount but you might have earned 20-30 maybe even 50k in dividends over that period. You are thinking only in terms of capital gains.
If you had reinvested those dividends into more shares, the returns would be even greater. Compound interest is your friend, something that gold/silver will never give you. Again, I'm not against owning a percentage of your portfolio in gold/silver, but to sink 100% into itmeans you are missing out on the income and returns of dividends and compound interest.
Don't listen to this retard. The best thing to do with market investing is buy early and buy often. Time in the market matters more than timing the market. If you are investing for long term (20-30 years) down periods will be a blip in time. Markets always go up because the companies underlying the market will still produce products and sell them. That's the mindset behind buying ETFs instead of picking individual stocks. Time in the market and compound interest are your friends. If you save hard and pour all your money into your portfolio, on a decent wage ($60kUSD) you could realistically have a million dollar portfolio within 15-20 years and be earning between $40-50k dividends every year. My goal is $1.5mil portfolio to earn roughly $80k in dividends a year so I can retire early. I'm not looking for extreme wealth, just comfy passive income.
20k is probably only a years worth.
Mine arrived by UPS, insured, and I signed for it. No big deal.
where did you order it? all of the website I have seen look like sketchy websites from the late 90's
There are other reputable ones as well. jmbullion, apmex, etc.
https://findbullionprices.com/# is a good overview.
Oh aye that's pretty decen-
>£60 odd VAT added plus postage not factored in
it was too good to be true
I thought they had to include VAT in the prices before checkout?
That's usually the case with everything in the U.K, yes.
I suppose they don't have to.
Reminds me the royal mint wanting you deposit money on the website prior to ordering is the most scammy thing I've seen in a "trustworthy" online-shop.
I dunno if it's wise to stock up on gold. The US government isn't good for their word
gold is a hedge against inflation, you aren't making money on it. you put your money in at current value and when you sell it you have more money but it's worth the same value as when you bought it outside of fluctuations.
U can hide it easy from the israelites, thats the best part about gold
I don't trust anyone selling gold or silver and I don't know enough about it to trust myself.
I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything any more or try to help them beyond just posting this over and over again, hoping people start understanding what situation they are in.
My opinion? Fuck off, don't buy silver, smarter people than you deserve the chance to buy it.
>People waking up to fiat bullshit want to get involved
>Tell them to fuck off
fuck you bitch, stay in fiat, gold and silver is useless, that's what you cunts want to hear. Why come here to denounce precious metals with carefully crafted stupid questions designed to make precious metals look bad? Why come here faking asking about information if all you clowns want to just try and "debunk" real relevant information with dumb imaginary ideas?
For example, you're tired of fiat? Well have you watched this yet?
No? You're going to watch it now and then say you watched it? Or you're not even going to watch it and say you watched it.
Good luck idiots. Fuck silver and gold, leave it for me and the rest of us idiot stackers. Don't you worry about the banks and the real economy having more printed fiat than there is actual goods, services and assets available, don't you fucking worry, the music will never stop, you're all going to be rich, especially when people start withdrawing their funds from the banks, you'll have your paper assets that central banks and governments can just counterfeit and use themselves, while us broke boomer rock loving retards will be having to make private transactions that can't be taxed. Don't you worry about precious metals, just keep asking dumb questions, your government will take care of you, they never lie, let's just cry about MUH DRUMPFFF instead.
Fucking useless homosexuals. The reason I hate so many of you question asking homosexuals is because you have no mind of your own, if I tell you 1+1 equals 2, and a maths degree holder rolls up and tells you 1+1 equals 1000, you'll look at him with his degree and shit on my answer because I don't have a degree, you clowns can't think for yourself or extrapolate from simple information given.
Shut up stupid
>how do you buy gold?
i only buy silver. but I support those of you that do buy gold, you are lucky to have the currency to buy such things
why silver? palladium and platinum are cheaper and have actual high demand industrial uses other than being semi-rare metals.
>paying that much for an ounce of silver
jesus christ that's not going to last.
nm it's palladium I can't read.
I meant cheaper than gold, I'm drunk and starting to not make any sense. sorry.
>palladium and platinum
demand will drop if we actually do transition to EVs.
There is more paper silver than there is actual silver. Silver squeezing the fed causes the entire thing to implode. Permanently disbarring israelites from monetary manipulation.
silver is easily the most undervalued PM. That's what I buy it. Not saying you're wrong, just explaining myself a bit
Something's metaphysically fishy about silver. I don't think God likes it, personally.
Just has a thing against perfectly reflective metals. It's a bit weird. Like when He's observing you he doesn't really want to see you until you're cool with Him.
Also Jesus was sold out with silver.
Gold is okay though. Yellow evokes pity.
fish have silver scales for a reason, be be attracted to each other and my lure.
>who is a israelite
Canuck Anon is a twat, but he's not wrong. Jesus was a dirty arab/rebel israelite.
he was a gentile that proclaimed to be the king of the israelites. he was probably suffering the same ailment as that preacher in Deadwood.
pretty sure that Canadian loves Jesus
you fucking idiot, the fact that jesus was sold out with only 30 pieces of silver, goes to show you how valuable silver truly was in order for a friend to sell out his own friend like that. They could have given him gold, oil, frankincense or whatever, it wouldn't have mattered what as long as it had value, so knowing he betrayed his messiah for 30 silver goes to show how he was given a fucking fortune for selling out his messiah.
>I dunno fellow Chr*stians, don't you think it's weird that the stuff everyone used as money until 1965 was the SAME stuff that judas got paid with?
money is a sin, because it represents something that is not in the here and now
What if we spent as much of our wealth and energy on living beings as we do on guarding and revering gold bars at Fort Knox, gold bars which do nothing, gold bars which don't hear, don't see, don't smell, don't taste and don't speak, and which provide neither food nor clothing nor shelter nor warmth to a single living being! What if we spent as much of our wealth and energy on living beings and as we do on guarding and revering pieces of paper and coins, as well as numbers in data-bases, which do absolutely nothing, which don't hear, don't see, don't smell, don't taste and don't speak, and which provide neither food nor clothing nor shelter nor warmth to a single living being!
Their idols are silver and gold, the work of men's hands. They have mouths, but they do not speak; eyes they have, but they do not see; they have ears, but they do not hear; noses they have, but they do not smell; they have hands, but they do not handle; feet they have, but they do not walk; nor do they mutter through their throat. Those who make them are like them; so is everyone who trusts in them. (Psalm 115:4-8)
israeli words designed to make the goyim unarm themselves. The only protection the common man has against the rich elites, is free market money that cannot be printed away infinitely.
nope, money itself is the problem
do you take more than you need?
Why do those who take more than they need judge those who take only what they need or even less than they need?
You have no problem feeding your cat or your dog whose only work is usually just keeping you company, so why not feed your fellow human being, just or unjust, and not judge whether or not he or she is a mooch?
And, some last questions:
Why do most goods flow from the poor to the rich, from the workers to the non-workers, from those who produce (laborers) to those who produce little (bankers and brokers and CEOs and landlords) as it has been ever since the beginning of money civilization?
Why is it okay for a typical American child, who holds no job, to play with toys (or not play with them, because he has so many he is bored with them), the same toys which are made by a child overseas who works 15 hours a day in a sweatshop?
Now tell me who are the moochers, and who is taking advantage of whom?
nonsense, money isnt the issue, it's a tool. israelite always tell people that money is the problem when in fact it's greed. The problem is human, not material like silver or gold.
Most goods flow from poor to rich, because the rich use fiat currency to eternally rob from the poor and keep them poor. They own the means of production and they own the laws which force you to pay in fiat currency, and they own the printing presses that control the printing of that currency which is limited for you but unlimited for them. The reason why gold and silver is gods money, is because they cannot be printed. The rich cannot pay you in gold and then print more gold for themselves afterwards to rebalance the ratio of gold you have versus them.
this is why I get so angry about this subject, it literally isn't hard at all, it's so easy to understand, it's basic math and reallocating resources on a spreadsheet, looking at percentages and ratios, that's literally it, but I get mad the general public think it's some sort of magic, and they allow themselves to believe nonsense which allows them to be taken advantage of. They never wake up from their idiocy either.
Exactly, they don't want you to be in on it, they want it for themselves. The more people get into it, the better off everyone will be and people won't be trapped in their work to live lives.
>money isnt the issue, i
money is the issue, it's the only problem, it doesn't exist, it is a faith based belief that something with no value has value, it is a betrayal of god that you believe you cannot survive without an imaginary thing that has no value in the here and now
Promise is debt. Debt is a promissory contract.
Do not make promises. Do not premeditate.
Do not take Prometheus, Fore-thought.
retarded israeli nonsense.
Greed is the issue. Money is not an issue, it's a tool, to show your economic input and for you to embody something with value and deploy it later on to trade with someone else for something that you think is of equal value or if it isn't, trade that money for something and get some change on top of it.
You see? This kike shit you come up with is essentially gold and silver for the israelites, while everyone else gets brainwashed to think it's a sin to have money, and then the israelites run everything and force you to work for their fake money that they can endlessly print. Get fucked out of here you israeli kike.
>all of them frothing mad naggerspeak
Holy shit, homosexual.
if you have no belief that money has value, there is no power available to the greedy
A prostitute has relations with somebody to get money, even if she is only presenting the illusion of love. She knows people need and crave love. But if she finds love for her client, she can no longer receive money for her services to him, and if he loves her, he can no longer pay money to love her.
When I work and do something for you, if you don't give me anything in return, then I ask for a note that you sign that says I did a certain amount of work for you in promise for you giving me a certain amount of work to be done in the future because you have nothing to give me right now. What that note is, is debt, but if you pay me in that debt note and promise whoever holds it can redeem it from you, then it becomes money based on trust.
Money is needed you fucking israeli retards, and to try and brainwash people that it's money and not your lying thieving israeli greed that's the problem, not money itself.
and if I refuse to accept anything from you unless it is given freely? what if everyone you encountered had that way of life?
whats better zombie apocalypse or what I describe, a world filled with people without faith in money?
>Money is the issue
>Proceeds to describe a problem with fiat currency
One issue is that people have been tricked into thinking fiat currency is money. It is not. Real money does indeed have value regardless of faith or belief because it is used for other things besides being currency.
I agree about not taking on debt, or at least limiting it as much as possible. But it is impractical to avoid all promises, premeditation and fore-thought.
>Real money does indeed have value regardless of faith or belief because it is used for other things besides being currency.
this is true, but typically the use of metals and precious stones have limits, and of course the entire reason for shiny rare metal having value was it was the only way to convince the warrior class to risk their lives over nothing worth having
>it is impractical to avoid all promises, premeditation and fore-thought.
I agree with this as well, but I can also see that doing this, imagining what life could be like without the shackles of false faiths, is the path to salvation, if you can't imagine a different world, you can't build one
based. I can tell this guy does math in his head or he has watched important stuff that explains finance, economics and money. When a nigga says people have been tricked into believing fiat is money, I pop a boner and a half. You made my day Americano, thank you for being educated.
o for fuck sake, what do you mean why not platinum or palladium? You ask these questions for what purpose? To just seem fucking smart or something?
Do you know WHY something becomes money? Do you know the PROPERTIES of money? Do you know the most VALUABLE essence of what money is? Do you understand why something becomes economically viable as money such as gold and silver but not palladium?
Short answer, palladium and platinum are so much rarer than gold or silver, the population has no use of it as money as it is too scarce. Gold, silver and copper occupy the perfect spot of being rare but not rare enough. Gold for high value expenses, silver for medium purchases and copper for small purchases and giving change. I'm so disgusted at the lack of self education here, just blindly reaching out like idiots to ask stupid questions that are literally self explanatory. The fact that gold, silver and copper fit into this rare enough but not so rare, has meant that humanity has recognised them in free markets as money over time, for over 5000 years of recorded history and probably a lot longer than that. Take gold across the world and people recognise it, take palladium and see who recognises it.
That first episode is all the help I'm willing to give, I'm not sitting here arguing with retards, follow the research yourself cunts.
You must be trolling right? Your comparison is completely backwards. Per ounce, platinum group metals are much more expensive than silver. They mostly have only one main industrial use: catalytic converters to reduce the emissions of internal combustion engines. Silver on the other hand has a very wide variety if industrial uses because it is the most electrically conductive material so it's used to make many different things that use or generate electricity.
>surely not by mail.
registered mail covers up to 8K worth of insurance for 10 bucks
used mostly by coin dealers and silver bugs
Ask your house bank. They have all the proper processes for a secure transaction in place and they have a reputation to lose. Be highly suspicious about buying from small businesses, amateurs or shady hustlers.
I get it by post, it’s tracked, we’ve got at least 20 years before our system collapses like America, by then you’ll be current south africa
the value added tax to silver is some real horseshit i cant believe you let your ruling elites get away with
You have a mark-up on everything you buy when you take it to the till.
This is essentially the same thing, it's just not the done thing. Generally the VAT is priced into the cost of everything we buy.
£20 including VAT, it's that price at the till and no more questions asked.
Apparently our gold sellers don't operate on the same factor, they go more Yank with it.
Most investment gold is VAT free though, certain coins are also CGT free
or you can just invest in gold futures
When you buy gold there are a few things you want to consider
Always buy low. If gold is at the highest price its been in over five years, maybe now's not a good time to buy.
You should get it from a refutable dealer and make sure that it's solid gold, and not a hunk of lead coated in gold. You need to drill a hole into your gold to test this.
>the design and history
A lot of gold bullion is just worth its weight in gold. Some gold antiques are worth more than their weight because of historical reasons. Some people have difficulty selling things like reichmarks because they have swastikas on them, despite being pure silver. Remember this if you buy something with a christian design on it, and you later try to sell it to some kike.
>the sell back price
Gold retailers will not buy back gold at the price they sell it at. Beware this.
Some places will give you a certificate instead of gold. Fuck these places. They are scams.
Almost all of Swedish gold reserve is in anglo and swiss banks. I dont fucking get this.
no refunds sven
How to buy at spot prices
>>Have cash on hand to purchase and take delivery of a COMEX futures contract
>>Call a commodities brokerage firm (Google “commodities brokerage firm”) and ask them “If I set up an account and then pay in full for a silver futures contract, can you get me the warehouse delivery receipt?” -If the answer to this question is no, call another firm and find someone who knows how to get you the warehouse delivery receipt. Many brokers have never done this so you will need to find a broker who knows the process.
>>If the broker tells you they can get the warehouse delivery receipt, then open an account, fund the account with enough money to buy the silver futures contract, place an order to buy the contract, and wait for the receipt to be delivered. Placing the order will cost you a commission and there are some fees to get the receipt. All in, the expenses will be $300-500 depending on the firm.
>>Once you receive the warehouse delivery receipt (about 30 days or less) then you read the receipt. On the receipt are the name and phone number of the warehouse. Call the warehouse and make an appointment to pick up your silver from the warehouse. The warehouses are all in New York City, New York.
>>Show up at the delivery warehouse on time for your appointment. For each contract, you purchased they will have five 1000oz silver bars waiting for you. No, there are no other sizes available. Yes, they will all weigh a little more or less than 1000oz. Yes, the bars weigh 62.5 pounds each so you need to make sure your car or truck can carry the weight. No, the warehouse to not offer delivery service nor will they ship your bars.
>The warehouses are all in New York City, New York.
>How to have the Chinese mob get both your cash and offload silver plated cement to Baizou
I bought some silver to stop my wife spending the money. I still have the silver so i guess it worked.
only 4kg's but it's i could afford.
less than 5% of zoomies are investing in stocks, not because of wages because they are stupid because they weren't taught finance and the truth about how a capitalistic society actually works. If you are hoarding your money like a peasant your money will lose it's value, if you are investing it into what the market demands your money is gaining value.
Not online of course, you'd have to research sellers around your area. Avoid traceable gold if possible, see picrel.
Beware of gold plated tungsten bars, it's a thing. The only reliable way to detect them is either by drilling them or ultrasound. Gold and tungsten have the same volumic mass, meaning you can't detect it by weighting them.
Do you mean density? What the fuck
I've bought about 10K in metals from Tex metals in the past couple months.
Yes through mail. Insured next day is free.
Ebay. Plenty of reputable bullion dealers. Cheapest I've found for bulk.
I buy all my gold and silver for the best economic forcaster, Peter Schiff.
I bought it by mail
>surely not by mail.
Sure, that's how they're gonna "get ya" because you used mail. Correct me if I'm wrong but as a consumer wouldn't additional mail fraud criminal prosecution possibilities just add to my protection?
This may sound stupid, but don’t think about buying gold unless you just want to have gold. I mean that your intention is never to sell that gold, but SPEND it.
You are going to pay premium to buy it and it is already sort of overvalued. Then you are going to want to insure the delivery and basically the idea of making profit off it goes out the window.
But if you want it for the sake of barter post-collapse, go right ahead and get some.
I'm holding for 40ish years, enough to sell a little a month to keep me alive for 5-10 years at that point because the idea of a 'real' pension just seems surreal and mythical already
As long as you have no delusions of profit, you are clear to buy gold without being mocked by me.
No expects to make money on gold and silver but retards. It has and always will be a way to not lose money on inflation. Also silver was like 4.50 in l01 and the dow was 10k silver is almost 22 right now with the dow being 31k so any retard thinking putting money in a safe index is better can suck my dick.
Have you seriously never been in a /SETF/ thread here or /PMG/ on LULZ?
LULZ is all 18 year olds that watch homosexuals on youtube who shill retard get rich quick new age shit in hopes of buying a terrible car and bad clothes they are basically naggers with indian teenager taste. Not a good test.
lmao, that's why I'm being harsh to these fucking newbie retards. They don't want to understand precious metals, they want to come in, make a profit and if they don't, they'll cry and shit on precious metals for not doing something they were never meant to do. These idiots will stay ignorant and uneducated for the rest of their life because they burned themselves on the stove, and these cunts will never be able to have their minds opened to what sound money is. Better to burn these idiots first, let them suffer in life and then come back to precious metals when they have experience, I know tons of retards that went in on SLV a decade ago, they got burned and now refuse to even educate themselves on what silver and gold is for, and they're going to be left hanging to dry when everyone rushes for their precious metals.
Gee, sure seems like a lot of people expect to make money off of PM.
lmao imagine being a spanish chimp who can't handle that some emotional retard gave him "A history of Central banking and the enlavement of mankind" as well as "hidden secrets of money bu mike maloney", and the best you can do is ask retarded questions instead of self educating.
I love it. I fucking love being a cunt about silver and gold, and having panicked spanish naggers trying to escape fiat get turned off to silver and gold because they need to be spoonfed gently and have their shit encrusted asses wiped gently with "hey baby, this is why silver and gold are a hedge against inflation".
>the gold bar is just as big as the silver bar
>they have equal mass
nice try, schlomo
I mean you would win in that case as silver is like half the weight of gold when they are the same size so you would have 2 kilos of gold there
buy at your local bank
go pick it up yourself
if you are ordering online you will end up getting scammed by some chang
TD is one of the biggest banks in Canada.
I mean to be honest with you not a single one of these nerds and geeks have mentioned the reality of the end of times.
In the modern world you'd be trading toilet paper obviously
let me lay out the math for u
2 sheets of toilet paper = 30.413 rounding of course individual bean.
a whole bounty pack the 2 ply will get u a loaf of bread
and if u have 3 ply quilted ultra max sheets u are now the 1% and can buy a wife for 50 rolls
if you have an inkjet printer you can actually print out online gold orders in gold leaf.
you can stack it after, but I prefer to redeem it for cash right away
Is this a joke?
its not 99% pure obviously.
if you take it to a gold changer in a shopping centre they usually give a good price depending on weight
Can you elaborate on the process?
Find a mint and buy it from there.
/Buy/ gold??? Just touch something next to you lmao, viola you got gold baby. The real question is, how do you NOT have gold if you've already typed in this thread? LOL
People told me not to buy 1kg bars, but it's so i can one day cave someones head in with one.
'but you can smash a head in with anything, why a silver bar?' Because silver won't cause them an infection, i don't do war crimes.
they will deliver every day and night... it's insured and tracked.... people order way more expensive things via mail.... JMBULLION delievers...
I have a guy who mines it for me in my backyard.
thats the thing. 68% of backyards are stocked with undiscovered pig-gold. you need to hire an professional to extract it. can take weeks.
I bought by mail JM bullion. This was nearly a decade ago, not sure I would do it again. But I was happy with the service.
pro tip: you dont. becauee if you dont know what you buy, you will get scammed. Real gold is very rare now. You better to stock food than Gold. At the end of time, gold will not save you. You will die with you goldpiece like a fat pig ready to travel Gaymarria Express.
plus, you will get robbed , beaten and dismembered. someone will snitch you.
most food is fake now too
Fuck off, total collapse of society is extremely unlikely and if you want gold/silver just go to a reputable Bullion dealer. Stop being a doom-mongers.
yes by mail from a no sales tax state. they insure the package and mark it valuable. one time the post office didnt deliver it and i had to go harass the post office until they went and looked in the safe. took all day but i got my silver.
I am not opposed to food stamps. I just don't take them for myself.
Neither do I take government assistance (except that I use libraries and walk on roads and sidewalks), and I try not to take organized do-goodism. If somebody is paid to help me, I prefer not to accept their help. If they are volunteers, I will take their help. The philosophy of living this way is to receive what is freely given, from the heart. I want all my human contacts to be sincere, with no motivation but the motivation of giving itself. It's about being real. I prefer to go hungry than to recieve food not given freely.
Do not worry about your life, what you will eat;
nor about the body, what you will put on. . .
Consider the ravens,
for they neither sow nor reap,
which have neither storehouse nor barn;
and God feeds them.
Of how much more value are you than the birds? . . . .
Consider the lilies, how they grow:
they neither toil nor spin;
and yet I say to you, even Solomon in all his glory
was not arrayed like one of these.
If then God so clothes the grass,
which today is in the field
and tomorrow is thrown into the oven,
how much more you, O you of little faith?
And do not seek what you should eat
or what you should drink,
nor have an anxious mind.
For all these things the nations of the world seek after,
and your Father knows that you need these things.
But seek the Kingdom of God,
and all these things shall be added to you.
--Jesus (Luke 12:22, 30-31)
Again I saw that under the sun
the race is not to the swift,
nor the battle to the strong,
nor bread to the wise,
nor riches to the intelligent,
nor favor to the men of skill;
but time and chance happen to them all.
--attributed to "the Son of David" (Ecclesiastes 9:11)
Pure and simple, faith is trusting yourself to chance.
>how do you buy gold?
Order it from a bank. Then show up when they have it delivered.
Now good luck trying to turn it back into money.
it is better not to have any beer to give to the alcoholic,
and it is better not to have any money to give to the moneyholic.
Then we all have to deal with the reality of circumstances beyond our own power (called the Law of God). Then the addict faces his addiction without anybody judging him or trying to parent him and you are forced to be creative and give love that goes beyond material things.
In other words,
it is better not to have money than to pay taxes.
It is better not to have anything that belongs to Caesar,
because all that belongs to Caesar is unreal.
If you depend on money, you are no better than the Caesars who depend on your money. If you don't want to pay taxes, then don't own money. Don't be a hypocrite about it. If you don't like the Wal Marts and the Exxons, then don't buy from them, don't own anything from them, and stop thinking you can't live without them. Make it up in your mind that you would rather die than be dependent on Wal Mart or Exxon, that you need absolutely nothing from Wal Mart or Exxon or any corporation or bank. If you think you can't survive without corporations or banks, then you are declaring that you are their life-blood. They wouldn't be the monsters that they are without you. Money is their life-blood, and all who rely on their life-blood are one with them. I don't care what Christian or any other faith you profess, if you think you cannot possibly survive without corporations, then you believe corporations are greater than God. And you believe God is not in control, is not sovereign. If you think you can't survive without corporations and banks, you have no faith, and all your talk of God is utter nonsense. You are using the name of God in vain. Then you wonder why the word "God" is so loathsome to people.
None of your fucking beeswax, nagger.
What do you do if you find money?
I usually leave coins or bills right there, because, as I've said, money only exists in the head. It's an excercise to see everything as it is, not filtered through the mind of belief. If my eye lusts after a dollar bill on the ground like it is something special, then my mind is still not the infant's mind. The infant mind sees everything as it is. The infant has no thoughts, no value judgments.
The Infant mind is the Zen mind.
Except you become the Zen mind,
you cannot enter the Kingdom of God.
An infant has no regard for money, because she knows money does not exist. She does not know money. She does not know illusion. She might see a pretty piece of paper with designs & a picture of a man on it, and is attracted to that for what it is, but that's all she sees. One time I found a $20 bill and decided to play with it in this way. I cut it up and made a collage out of it. Bills are works of art - but only a rare few see them as such.
However, if there is a person near me who believes in money, I will pick up the coin or bill and pass it on to him or her.
People often say I don't touch money. If they mean I don't touch coins, bills, or credit cards, they are mistaken. If they mean I stay away from thought of credit and debt in my mind, they are more accurate (though I am still in the process of letting go of touching money in my mind)
I must make clear that I have no aversion to touching coins or bills or credit cards. Aversion to touching coins or bills or credit cards is just as superstitious as attraction to them. Either attraction or aversion to bills, coins, or credit cards is attributing a power to them that does not exist. Attraction or aversion to coins, bills, or credit cards is idolatry, in other words.
To be attracted to or aversed to anything that has no ears, eyes, nostrils, or mouth is to become deaf, blind, without sense and without taste.
This entire thread has been reported to ADL for antisemitism.
I hope you all enjoy getting canceled from everything that matters.
Better to invest in Brass and Lead.
>surely not by mail.
Why not? I've been buying from bullion mart for a while and everything is insured in case of theft or loss. Which hasn't occurred yet.
The greatest thieves and mooches and lazy and greedy people are at the top of the money system: bankers and stock brokers and CEOs, who not only contribute little or nothing to society, but bleed the goods from the workers at the bottom. The very pattern of money society since ancient Sumer & Egypt has been for wealth to flow from the workers to the non-workers, from the industrious to the lazy. When you take more than you need, you are a thief. The very nature of the system of commerce is robbery and extortion.
Okay Marx, settle down.
Ignore these pussies about getting robbed, I swear... This is why kids need fathers in their lives.
Any online bullion dealer (apmex., SDBullion, JMBullion) Will ship you gold online, I'd recommend buying Eagles, but at the end of the day that's up to you. If you want to make sure your gold is 100% real, bring it to any big pawn shop and they will test it for you.
I would recommend staying away from bars larger than 10oz if your looking into gold. Simply because they are harder to resell.
What Money Is & What Money Is Not
Money is coined liberty, and so it is ten times dearer to the man who is deprived of freedom.
If money is jingling in his pocket, he is half consoled, even though he cannot spend it.
--Dostoevsky (House of the Dead, part 1, chapter 2)
Money is incarnate desire.
-James Buchan (Frozen Desire)
Money is not a dollar bill or a check or a penny, nickle, or dime. Money is not gold or silver or copper, nor is money cowrie shells or gems or salt blocks or cattle.
Money is not a credit card. Money is not even an electrical current or binary code in a computer! All of these things represent money, but they are not money.
Money is not a material substance.
The Goddess Juno Moneta, root of our word "money"
Money is a belief in the head.
Money is a shared belief of two or more people. A German mark is nothing but a piece of paper with pretty pictures on it to a Yanomamo in the Amazon jungle. The Yanomamo sees it with the eyes of reality.
Both the buyer and the seller must
believe in money
or it's not money.
Money is credit.
Credit is belief.
The very first definition of credit in The American Heritage Dictionary is: ‘Belief or confidence in the truth of something”
The word credit comes from the Latin credere, “to believe.”
So does the word creed. Creed is another word for religion, for both refer to a shared (cultural) belief.
Money is credit, a creed, a religion.
Credit is also praise (also called honor, glory, award, prize). Praise is the opinion, the beliefs, of others.
The word praise comes from the Latin pretire, meaning “to prize”, which comes from the Latin pretium, meaning “price”! And this is derived from the Indo-European root per-, which means “to traffic, sell”!
The words prostitution and pornography come from per- [see Love & Possession - Sex & Money for a discussion of prostitution, the root of all professions].
Working for money is ulterior motivation.
When you work for the sake of working itself, you are being real.
When you work to gain the credit of others, you have ulterior motivation; you are pretending, not being real; you are prostituting yourself; you are adulterating yourself; you are an adulterer; you are serving an image in the head (your imagination); you are thus an idolator.
The word hypocrite is actually the English form of the Greek hupocrite, which means actor, pretender.
You cannot work for both Reality and imagination. For either you will hate the one and love the other, or else you will be loyal to the one and despise the other.
Yes, Money exists no place but in the mind!
In the same way that we could point to a dollar bill and call it money, we might point to a photograph of John F. Kennedy and call it John F Kennedy, even though we know the photograph itself is not John F Kennedy, and that's okay, the nature of symbol. Now if we actually believe the photo itself is John F. Kennedy, then we are deluded, superstitious. We might point to Michaelangelo’s painting of God on the Sistine chapel and say “This is God” knowing that the painting itself isn’t God. But if we actually believe it is God, then we are idolators. Idolatry is simply an archaic word for superstition.
Idolatry is mistaking the symbol for the thing it symbolizes, blindness to Reality.
You can pledge allegiance to a symbol or you can pledge allegiance to Reality. You can't do both.
You can pledge allegiance to stars and stripes, to scriptures, to money, or else you can actually care about real things, real people. It's impossible for you to do both.
You can't serve both Reality and Mammon.
But most adult people in the world believe money to be a real substance. Most adult people in the world are deluded, superstitious, idolators. This is not a statement of judgement, but of simply what is. Look around: are not people, at this very moment, sacrificing living beings, human and animal, and even whole nations, as well as destroying the natural environments they depend upon, for this delusion, this imagination, this idol, that exists only in the mind?
People bicker and war over symbols, over creeds, not over Reality.
Many natives in the Americas were astonished at their European conquerors’ lust for a yellow substance called gold – a lust so great they massacred whole populations and environments to get it. Natives, like Black Elk, commonly called gold "the yellow metal that makes white men crazy" and the thing that they worship [Black Elk Speaks]. Why do people lust so much after something so useless? Many Christians and Muslims and israelites love to condemn other religions as idolators even as they themselves sacrifice themselves and their fellow human beings before this idol called money, this idol they serve with all their hearts, minds, and souls, even as they mouth praises to God. And they eat food offered to this idol.
Wars and animal exploitation and environmental destruction are all sacrifices to this idol, hopelessly beyond rationality.
When you serve what is unreal, you become unreal.
When you serve what is Real, you become Real.
The idols of the nations are silver and gold,
The work of men’s hands.
They have mouths, but they do not speak;
Eyes they have, but they do not see;
They have ears, but they do not hear;
Nor is there any breath in their mouths.
Those who make them are like them;
So is everyone who trusts in them.
The faith of every person is in accord with his innate character.
A person is made up of faith.
Whatever his object of faith, even so is he.
(Bhagavad Gita 17:3)
Those who worship the gods go to the gods.
Those who worship their ancestors go to their ancestors.
Those who worship the elements go to the elements.
Those who worship Me come to Me Only.
(Bhagavad Gita 9:25)
Money is a schoolteacher.
Don’t get me wrong,
imagination is a beautiful thing.
But imagination ceases to be beautiful when we start believing it to be real.
This is when we serve our imaginations rather than our imaginations serving us.
Money is imagination.
The rulers of the nations serve imagination and are thus Imagi-Nations.
Render unto imagination what belongs to imagination.
Render unto Reality what is Reality.
When you are in preschool and kindergarten, the teacher might give you gold stars as incentives to learn. When you reach higher grades, you receive grades of A, B, C, D, & F as motivation. These are your credits. There are students who learn simply because learning is fun and interesting, and there are students who learn to get credits. Some students who began learning for credit start realizing learning is fun, and they learn for the sake of learning. These are the mature ones. They are not under a law outside themselves, but under a law written on their hearts. The immature students need a system of credit and debt to push them along. The mature students are beyond credit and debt, and do everything for gratis, grace. Immature people need outward laws to guide them. Mature people realize that the reward is in doing, under grace. Mature people work gracefully, are generous, able to give expecting nothing in return and able to receive without guilt, without debt. Money is law, a schoolteacher for the immature. Gratis is grace, freedom for the mature. Money is forced, gratis is graceful.
Money has its purpose, and its purpose is to also become obsolete, just as gradeschool’s purpose is to become obsolete and a child’s purpose is to grow up.
The trouble is, our society has become corrupt, and children stopped growing up, continuing to work for outward credit.
Reward and punishment [credit and debt]
is the lowest form of education.
-- Chuang Tzu
All Credit to Jah,
All Credit to Reality.
Hallelujah means renouncing self-credit. Money is self-credit.
Hallelujah means letting Jah again take care of credit and debt.
Hallelujah means returning Thought of Credit & Debt to Heaven,
returning the Knowledge of Good & Evil to Heaven,
Returning Stolen Fire to the Gods.
Hallelujah means re-entering the Grace of Eden
from which we fell when we lusted after the Fruit of the Tree of Knowledge of Credit & Debt, when we lusted after the fruit of our own efforts, the rewards of action.
If you don't care for the word "God", because it's been abused, ponder on what manages credit and debt, the cycles of nature, apart from our control, whatever brings balance of positive and negative in the universe. You can see all credit belongs to it. Ponder our insignificance in the face of the infinite. Humility is realization of reality. Reality doesn't care whether you call it "God" or not. Call it Truth, call it Reality, or whatever you like. Simply be aware of, accept and love reality with all your being, the only natural thing to do, the only happy thing to do. Every creature must submit and bow to reality sooner or later, either voluntarily or involuntarily. If you want a happy life, bow to reality voluntarily. Voluntarily means without payment, without expectation of credit, without force, without control. Cont-rol means "against the roll."
The same that applies to religious folks applies to you: to overlook reality, to overlook real people, because we're hung up on words, is called idolatry, mistaking the symbol for the reality it symbolizes. Again, people oppress and kill each other over symbols, not reality, whether we're talking religious theocracies condemning folks for not using the right god-label, or atheistic regimes, condemning folks for using any god label. It makes no difference, all oppression comes from the same spirit: idolatry, mistaking symbol for reality.