How do I get self-esteem? I have none, if I had any in the past then it's so long gone I can't even remember it
How do I get self-esteem? I have none, if I had any in the past then it's so long gone I can't even remember it
How do I get self-esteem? I have none, if I had any in the past then it's so long gone I can't even remember it
Why do you want self-esteem?
I feel like crap constantly, can't do anything because I just fuck up or am so retarded that it's all just pointless. Can't talk to people because I fear they will bully me or otherwise shit on me for being such a piece of shit.
Well get better then. Sounds like a skill issue. Or you could also love yourself even though you're a piece of shit. Your choice.
I can't get better at anything, I'm too stupid and bad at everything. I doesn't matter what I do or try, it all goes wrong and people will point and laugh
Alright cool. Now why wouldn't a complete retard piece of shit waste of a human like you be undeserving of love and respect? Why do you need to be good at anything for that?
I don't understand what you mean
Take someone. A random person. He cannot do anything, fucks up everytime, is completely retarded, etc. Is he undeserving of love?
Yes
Alright, then to answer your first question, "How do I get self-esteem?": you don't. Live a life of self-hatred.
Of course you can build self-esteem. Why would you choose not to? Why be miserable when you can flourish?
You obviously can't if your self-esteem depends on how good you are at things. You're trash and retarded, You can't improve. So your self-esteem is never going to go up.
>if your self-esteem depends on how good you are at things
Fortunately, it doesn't, not primarily.
You just said it did. You said someone that is a complete fuck up is undeserving of love.
No, OP said that.
Yep. So to him, it's dependent and he's not gonna make it.
Which would be cause for him to reevaluate where self-esteem actually comes from.
Not gonna happen. Those guys are lost. Be my guest and try though.
What else is there beside your talents? People don’t give a shit about you if you are a boring piece of crap who can’t do anything. You have nothing at all to give to anybody.
Yea ok sure. So give up then.
Not to single you out or anything but this entire line of reasoning is stupid basement dweller shit. If you went outside you'd see people are not talented, and these untalented people run the whole spectrum of social belonging or lack thereof.
But everyone of them can do something enough to be the best among the small community. There are loads of people better than them in the world but here he is the guitar king or the photographer or the gymbro. Why the fuck would you choose to hang out with the retard idiot who doesnt know shit out of them all? Being alone is better than that.
You're saying everyone is very proficient at one thing like guitar or lifting but I don't think this is actually the case. When you're actually in the world dealing with people you'll see this. That's not to mention, you're making an assumption that this proficiency will lead to social success. That also seems to be unfounded, for example, all the impressively buff LULZ users who are turbo isolated their entire lives.
I go to a neet group every weekday with social workers and I see this shit constantly. Everyone has some skill or thing and that is their anchor. I havent met a single retard like myself in over 10 years I’ve been there. Everyone else come and go, I’ve seen dozens of people, only I have remained because I have nothing, can’t go anywhere or do anything
You're damn right. Can you give up now?
That's got nothing to do with social success but I see what you're talking about. Playing guitar or lifting weights is what helps these people feel accomplished and, even more importantly, anchored. Maybe you should find something like that. I'm telling you this is not the source of all self esteem or of social success but it's up to you if you want to believe me.
I have looked a thing for my whole life but there isn’t anything for me. And I’m too old now to even begin and too shit to accomplish even beginner level at anything. And there already is a person for everything, I can’t compete with anybody. And it is a competition even if you don’t want it. Nobody needs you to play guitar for them, there is already the guitar king that has 10 times the skill and experience, you are not needed for anything as a late starter. People will compare you to gym joe if you start lifting and say ”thats good but gym joe has the record ;)”
Why are you talking about it then? Why did you make this thread?
To find selfesteem, but it seems now impossible. I’m retarded, I can’t fucking know this shit before hand but the thread has changed in time now.
Of course it's impossible. Now let's keep hating yourself and no need to try to convince people there is no solution for you. We already know.
Sounds like a ton of cognitive distortions here, ever heard of CBT?
I genuinely recommend this book:
One of very few self-help books that I like and that have actually been helpful in my life.
>How do I get self-esteem?
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Self-esteem is a fucking joke, OP
>I genuinely recommend this book:
[Remove]
Oh god I can feel the cancer growing in me just from reading this title
I don't get the appeal of self-hatred or Carlin, but it seems somehow natural that the two would go together.
>I don't get the appeal of self-hatred or Carlin, but it seems somehow natural that the two would go together.
Self-hatred? Where'd you get that?
The alternative to self-esteem. You either like yourself, or you don't.
>The alternative to self-esteem
Why is that the only alternative? What about "self-esteem is a fucking joke" as an alternative? George Carlin doesn't hate himself, nor do I hate myself. Can't a person just exist in reality? I don't need to believe things about myself that aren't true, I'm just fine admitting my weaknesses, admitting my shortcomings, while at the same time I know what I'm good at and shit
I don't need a fucking participation trophy, I don't need someone to tell me I'm alright, and I don't need to tell myself that it was a fluke if I lose at something, or that the other people must have cheated.. I can just say I lost, and that doesn't hurt me or my "self-esteem" at all. Self-esteem involves jamming your head up your own asshole. Fuck your self-esteem, just accept reality man. "Grow the fuck up," basically
?si=VM_jdyMfK8I1lFdq&t=381 (Self-esteem)
?si=KQjpf7Gy28Z12d4_&t=35 (Love yourself + more self-esteem)
You seem completely confused about what self-esteem is. Narcissism, the need for participation trophies and believing things about yourself that aren't true would be a sign of low self-esteem, while embracing truth and recognizing your weaknesses and shortcomings would be a sign of high self-esteem.
"Fuck your self-esteem" = fuck reality, fuck integrity, fuck self-responsibility, tell yourself what you want to hear, embrace vanity and narcissism, anything necessary to protect your fragile little ego from truth and real life. Why go through life like that? How long do you think that can last before it falls apart through contact with reality?
>while embracing truth and recognizing your weaknesses and shortcomings would be a sign of high self-esteem.
How is that high self-esteem? That's just.. the truth. So you're saying that low self-esteem would be lying to yourself? Except that's not true, people with low self esteem supposedly think negatively about themselves, right? They're two different concepts, as far as I can tell
>"Fuck your self-esteem" = fuck reality, fuck integrity, fuck self-responsibility, tell yourself what you want to hear, embrace vanity and narcissism, anything necessary to protect your fragile little ego from truth and real life. Why go through life like that? How long do you think that can last before it falls apart through contact with reality?
lol now come on man, that's not true. That's not how people use the term "self-esteem," and that's not what they mean when they talk about having high or low self esteem. No one has ever said "that guy really knows his weaknesses, he has HIGH SELF-ESTEEM" lol
I mean, I dunno if this is you
>I don't get the appeal of self-hatred or Carlin, but it seems somehow natural that the two would go together.
But he straight up says that self-hatred is the opposite of self-esteem. Well, what if you SHOULD hate yourself?
>Well what the fuck do you do when all you have are shortcomings and failures? No shit you are good at etc.
If at first you don't succeed, try, try again
Remember, there's a lot of people who never even had the balls to fail in the first place
>So you're saying that low self-esteem would be lying to yourself?
Yes. Why would someone with high self-esteem need to lie to himself? You can't have esteem for your own self, your own mind, if you evade reality. How could you respect a person who does that?
>people with low self esteem supposedly think negatively about themselves, right?
Yes, they consider themselves inadequate, incapable of dealing with life and of facing its challenges, and undeserving of love and respect.
>That's not how people use the term "self-esteem," and that's not what they mean when they talk about having high or low self esteem. No one has ever said "that guy really knows his weaknesses, he has HIGH SELF-ESTEEM" lol
What did you think it means? Of course a person with high self-esteem would be quite likely to understand themselves. You seem to confuse high self-esteem with arrogance or vanity, which are basically counterfeit versions of high self-esteem used by people who actually have low self-esteem to protect themselves.
>Well, what if you SHOULD hate yourself?
Nobody should hate their own self. If you've done wrong in the past, you should strive to correct those mistakes and become better, and if you hate some aspect of yourself, you should investigate it and correct it, but hating your *self*, your own *mind*, is basically mental suicide, nothing good could ever come from that.
>If you've done wrong in the past, you should strive to correct those mistakes
There's no way of correcting anything and I don't even deserve to be fixed
>Yes. Why would someone with high self-esteem need to lie to himself? You can't have esteem for your own self, your own mind, if you evade reality. How could you respect a person who does that?
So you're telling me that someone can't have high self esteem AND be lying to themself?
Except surely that isn't the case, right? Plenty of people have high self-esteem AND lie to themselves, right?
And if that is not the case, then WHY THE FUCK DO WE EVEN NEED THE TERM "SELF-ESTEEM?"
>Nobody should hate their own self.
I think you're out of your fucking god damn mind then. There's lots of people who should definitely hate themselves
>So you're telling me that someone can't have high self esteem AND be lying to themself?
Not at the same time, no. Degrees of self-esteem vary in a person over time, you can operate at a relatively high level of self-esteem on some days, and evade your own mind and knowledge of reality on others. But how could you at the same time realize you're bullshitting yourself *and* have great respect and esteem for your own self? You wouldn't respect someone else who you know is lying to you, would you?
>And if that is not the case, then WHY THE FUCK DO WE EVEN NEED THE TERM "SELF-ESTEEM?"
What do you mean? The term describes a desirable trait that a person can have. There's more that goes into it than not lying to yourself and not dodging reality, but these are a pretty fundamental requirement.
>There's lots of people who should definitely hate themselves
What good would that do, as opposed to distinguishing those aspects of yourself that should rightly be condemned from those that shouldn't. A person is not a monolithic entity, at any given time there's lots of competing tendencies going on which influence our choices. What benefit is there in rejecting your own mind?
>I'm just fine admitting my weaknesses, admitting my shortcomings, while at the same time I know what I'm good at and shit
Well what the fuck do you do when all you have are shortcomings and failures? No shit you are good at etc.
>Well what the fuck do you do when all you have are shortcomings and failures?
First you actually investigate that statement and other statements like these
Like this anon
said, those are called cognitive distortions, i.e. irrational thought patterns. Those have to be replaced with rational and objective thinking. Then you have to figure out what the values are that you esteem, and start introducing those into your life.
It's completely rational and true, I'm too old and too retarded to be good at anything. It's all over. Even if I really tried I will never be good, I can never reach the good level because I have not enough time and not enough skills required. I'm going to be the same piece of shit loser but now I have a drum kit that I can't really play or something like that
Textbook examples of cognitive distortions. Start with "Feeling Great" by David Burns, it's on Library Genesis.
>Textbook examples of cognitive distortions. Start with "Feeling Great" by David Burns, it's on Library Genesis.
Is there a chapter on "that guy is just a homosexual ass attention whore looking for sympathy" in there somewhere? Cause that's what
this guy is
That's possible of course, but there's plenty of people who genuinely feel that way, and even if this person is just attention whoring, there's a chance a genuine person might read this.
>there's a chance a genuine person might read this.
Bleh, I know what you mean because I feel the same way, mostly, but sometimes, there's a part of me that just.. well you know lol
>Not at the same time, no.
Horseshit, we see people like this every day. The people with the highest self esteem are the same people who lie to themselves the most
>But how could you at the same time realize you're bullshitting yourself *and* have great respect and esteem for your own self?
Uhh, by lying to yourself?
>You wouldn't respect someone else who you know is lying to you, would you?
What if you don't know they're lying though?
>What do you mean? The term describes a desirable trait that a person can have.
The last thing I want around me is someone with super high "self-esteem"
>There's more that goes into it than not lying to yourself and not dodging reality, but these are a pretty fundamental requirement.
I think maybe you haven't been paying attention to the whole self-esteem movement and the people involved. If anything, lying to yourself seems to be one of the fundamental requirements
>. A person is not a monolithic entity, at any given time there's lots of competing tendencies going on which influence our choices
Yes yes, that's a cute thought and all, but some people are, dunno what to tell you. I wish that wasn't the case, but some people are just fucking broken
>The people with the highest self esteem are the same people who lie to themselves the most
You're still confusing self-esteem with arrogance and pretense.
>Uhh, by lying to yourself?
If you lie to yourself about having esteem for yourself, you don't actually have esteem. Obviously, when I say "self-esteem", I mean *actual* self-esteem.
>What if you don't know they're lying though?
You know when you're lying to yourself. You can distract yourself from that, run away from it for a while, but deep down, you know.
>The last thing I want around me is someone with super high "self-esteem"
Why?
>I think maybe you haven't been paying attention to the whole self-esteem movement and the people involved.
Correct, I'm not interested in the "self-esteem movement", I'm interested in self-esteem.
>some people are just fucking broken
Yes, and if there's anything at all that can fix them, it's not going to be self-hatred.
>You know when you're lying to yourself. You can distract yourself from that, run away from it for a while, but deep down, you know.
That's what I would assume
>Correct, I'm not interested in the "self-esteem movement", I'm interested in self-esteem.
Well then I'd say you're just coming up with your own definition for "self-esteem." You'd be better off ditching that shit and joining.. me lol
"Self-esteem" isn't a real thing, you know? It's just some term that we invented. For 99.9% of people, it doesn't mean what it means to you, it means damn near the opposite
>Yes, and if there's anything at all that can fix them, it's not going to be self-hatred.
Who says they actually hate themselves?
If you know what "self" means and you know what "esteem" means, "my" definition of "self-esteem" would seem to follow naturally. I'm not redefining any of those words. Sure, I guess there are philosophical debates about what the "self" is, but I use the (I think) common and straightforward view of it being your mind, your inner life, the thing you mean when you say "I". "Esteem" should be clear. If you have esteem for your self, that's self-esteem, which is what I'm talking about. That's also what the author of the book I originally recommended talks about, so I don't think I'm taking crazy pills here. The fact that a term may be frequently misused doesn't change its actual meaning.
The point of all this being that OP is right to want *actual* self-esteem, i.e. a feeling of personal worth and competence rooted in a rational and objective view of himself and his values. And that's what the book is about.
>Who says they actually hate themselves?
Like I said, I hope they don't.
>That's also what the author of the book I originally recommended talks about, so I don't think I'm taking crazy pills here
I dunno, I looked that dude up and he used to fuck Ayn Rand, and that bitch took all the crazy pills. I guess that doesn't mean he was crazy too, but still..
I think if you stick with this "self-esteem" shit, you're going to eventually see that 90%+ of the people involved in that scene are the types that I'm talking about. 90% of the use of the term "self-esteem" has nothing to do with being honest with yourself, and everything to do with giving out participation trophies and whatnot. If the focus was on being honest/authentic/etc.. then there would be no need for the term "self-esteem," we would just say "stop lyin nigga" or go with the whole "authenticity" shit instead (which I find gay sounding as well)
You may have heard this guru guy Dr. K. One of the things he talks about is that self esteem is an emotion, so you can't achieve it through intellect. The things that illicit self esteem in people are pretty obvious, I mean, you already know all of them. For example you could get self esteem from helping someone or being admired. You know there are pitfalls to certain types of self esteem, like how being admired is a temporary form and you must internalized those positive moments so you don't constantly require admiration to feel good. Conspicuous consumption is sometimes said to be a hollow form of pride, whereas having your life financially in order can bring an enduring sense of security.
Get confident stupid
Holding yourself in high regard. If you respect yourself, you have self-esteem.