How did we stray so far from God?


Warning: Attempt to read property "comment_date" on null in /var/www/wptbox/wp-includes/comment-template.php on line 1043

Warning: Attempt to read property "comment_date" on null in /var/www/wptbox/wp-includes/comment-template.php on line 1043

Warning: Attempt to read property "comment_date" on null in /var/www/wptbox/wp-includes/comment-template.php on line 1043
  1. 3 days ago
    Anonymous

    People thought "science" and "political viewpoints" could supplant morality. Turns out that just made people blindly faithful to highly corruptible institutions.

    • 3 days ago
      Anonymous

      Right, the church and "tradition" are infallible institutions immune to the whims of mankind.

      • 3 days ago
        Anonymous

        throwing the baby out with the bath water: the post

        • 3 days ago
          Anonymous

          Tell me, what's the proverbial 'baby'?

          • 3 days ago
            Anonymous

            all institutions degrade over time, this does not mean that man should disregard all custom and tradition, as they are cultivated within said institutions

            • 3 days ago
              Anonymous

              >some custom and tradition is the baby, and some isn't
              What's the baby? Can you be specific?

              • 3 days ago
                Anonymous

                the sacraments and virtues as defined within christian tradition is the baby

              • 3 days ago
                Anonymous

                ok

            • 3 days ago
              Anonymous

              k bro, I don't necessarily disagree. That however doesn't mean we need to follow tradition to the letter and not be critical of it and change what needs to be changed.

              • 3 days ago
                Anonymous

                no what it means is that we should always err on the side of caution when deciding to "chance" that tradition. it also means that we should be the ones who change it - not some foreign or alien entity.

        • 3 days ago
          Anonymous

          throwing the baby out with the bath water: the post: the post

          • 3 days ago
            Anonymous

            wat

          • 3 days ago
            Anonymous

            throwing the bath water out with the baby: the post: the post-hoc.

      • 3 days ago
        Anonymous

        You're supposed to be loyal to God, not some church or man.

  2. 3 days ago
    Anonymous

    TV
    and the internet

    consuming all day God doesnt exist from the 'hip' people and not even one sermon at weekends on air TV it's pretty shit to be honest

  3. 3 days ago
    Anonymous

    when the church accepted the notion of nominalism by william of ockam it eventually culminated in unabashed materialism

  4. 3 days ago
    Anonymous

    Because god is not a part of our reality, for thousands of years people filled in the blanks regarding physical phenomena with god because that made the most sense. Now that all those things which previously were attributed to an intelligent and supernatural orchestration effort by some being are now attributed to mere cause and effect by unconscious forces of nature, there's nobody (apart from the stupidest and most desperate people) willing to actually waste their finite time alive on something which just has no direct effect on their daily lives, god is not present in the physical world, only the idea of god is present in the minds of those who are desperate for it

    • 3 days ago
      Anonymous

      how do you explain people’s personal revelation or NDE?

      • 3 days ago
        Anonymous

        Hallucinations

        • 3 days ago
          Anonymous

          how do you mean? are they induced from mental illness like schizophrenia or psychosis?

          • 3 days ago
            Anonymous

            Does it not suffice to say it's caused by human psychology/biology, rather than magic?

            • 3 days ago
              Anonymous

              you gave the explanation so I am asking you to elaborate. if there is a psychological/biological rationale to these “hallucinations” then I am open to hearing it.

              • 3 days ago
                Anonymous

                Holy shit dude, you've been sufficiently vague, I don't know what you are asking me to explain. Use your imagination
                People have funny feeling in an emotional/stressed setting (because they are emotional or stressed?) -> Thinks it was caused by a god, which they have heard stories about causing such feelings
                I don't think all NDEs or divine feels are the same, btw. There's probably a lot of explanations needed to account for all of them.

                I just think it's a really low bar to make up an explanation that is more plausible than magic

              • 3 days ago
                Anonymous

                no I am actually being pretty straightforward. I am simply asking you questions to which you respond by evasion or sperging out. I never once stated an affirming claim of God or implied my opinion. if hallucinations are the operative factor in revelation or NDE’s then you should be prepared to describe some pathophysiological rationale for it.
                >use your imagination to account for a phenomenon that I’m arguing is a product of people’s imagination
                why should I buy into this alternative when it seems just as amorphous and vague as the one these Christians are claiming?

              • 3 days ago
                Anonymous

                What do you mean "explain NDEs" ? I don't think NDEs is 1 thing
                What is it I need to explain, how people can form false memories after brain trauma to fill in a "blank", where the memories are all kinds of messed up and scrabbled
                If people have a memory of floating above their body and looking down on it during an operation. I don't think that actually happen. Like there was no soul-eyes floating above them and looking down.
                I don't think they necessarily are making it to get attention either (although I'm sure some people do). I think they have formed a false memory of this having happened.
                Why are the NDE stories so similar? Maybe because people have grown up in a society where stuff like this is portrayed in cartoons and movies all the time, they have heard other people tell stories, they've been expecting something like this to happen, they've been priemd
                Maybe there's an actual physiological reason, like the brain having some part to it that is responsible for spatially orienting you, telling your mind where your body is, etc. That gets fucked up, then it feels like you are located where you are looking, floating in the ceiling, etc

                It's so much work to make up 1 explanation.
                It's also silly, because I don't need to.
                If I think it's possible for some plausible natural explanation to exist, I don't need to actually make one up, or know it.
                There is no competing plausible supernatural explanation, not even close, not remotely. Could I be wrong about magic existing? Sure. Until then, induction puts my mind at ease with this stuff.
                All the explanations I know are natural. Maybe this one is too.

              • 3 days ago
                Anonymous

                that would be a sufficient explanation of NDEs if there weren’t dozens of accounts of people not only describing out of body experiences, but extracting information from those experiences that are corroborated by eyewitnesses during them. for example, people “floating above their body” during an operation and recanting specific details of medical equipment (manufacturing ID’s of headlamps) or interactions of clinical staff over lengthy periods of time (x person was in y room doing z) which is attested by the people present. if these experiences could be solely defined as misattribution or sensory schizophrenia then they wouldn’t inform real world implications, at least not completely. meeting people actively experiencing psychosis or hallucinations substantiates this difference.

                the bottom line is that you do need to explain these phenomena if you are willing to label alternative theories as “desperate” and “stupid”. anything else is just a cop out and belies your own bias.
                explain why a “soul” or metaphysical element of man is not worth considering.

              • 3 days ago
                Anonymous

                >manufacturing ID’s of headlamps
                This is explained by Dr. Habermas massively overstating the evidence for this being a factual event.
                It's literally a made up story, that's my explanation.

                Do you have actually have the "case report" or whatever you call it for these events? No! (Or it's gonna be real low quality garbage as evidence, I suspect)
                They are all just rumours. And people are motivated to lie and cheat about this stuff. That makes my bar for evidence go way up, sorry
                It would take some seriously controlled environment for me to really buy it, maybe you think I'm asking too much?

                Look, I don't think these event are totally fabricated.
                Probably it went like some lady being somewhat conscious during an operation. Then telling a story about how she floated above the operating table.
                Maybe the nurse she told the story to went like: "Did you see the number on the lamp??? There's a 5 digit number on the back of the lamp" NDE-,lady "Yeah, it a was number-number-number-something"
                Nurse later went and looked at the lamp and couldn't properly remember the number, but mistakenly thought it was the number she had been told. Then wrote down the number on the lamp on a note.
                Then goes to the NDE-lady and show her the note: "Was this your number??, It was wasn't it? WOOOW" NDE-lady, goes like: "Uhh, yeah, I think that was my number, too. wooowie" (convinced by the nurse it was the number she said earlier)

                I'm just making this explanation up, right? Why do I have to do this?
                I just find any such natural explanation SO much more plausible than soul-eyes floating above the table.

                Could even just say there is a conspiracy and people are lying. Or a broken clock being right twice a day. (with enough NDE stories being probed about details, some are bound to get some right by chance)
                Patients have eyes and ears, yeah? It's not surprising they can be somewhat aware of their environed during an operation. Even if they are supposed to be unconscious

              • 3 days ago
                Anonymous

                >It's literally a made up story, that's my explanation
                except that it isn’t and fabricating retarded headcanon bullshit to explain away something inconvenient to your entire position makes you no more logically consistent than those “idiots” you claim to lord over via reason and intellect.

                the existential certainty of life outside of a body implies an apotheosis of reality, i.e. a strictly material account for “being” is insufficient. your refusal of your own soul and inane twittering to serve your own bias answers OP’s question.

              • 3 days ago
                Anonymous

                >except that it isn’t
                lol
                How do you know? You are so full of shit
                Where is the evidence? Please show my your most powerful evidence of people gaining this mystical knowledge from NDEs which isn't better explained by mundane theories

                There is a reason this is a "pseudoscience", at worst it's hucksters that are literally lying.
                At best it studies with poor practice, asking leading question, counting unremarkable hits, counting hits multiple times, etc.

              • 3 days ago
                Anonymous

                >explain why a “soul” or metaphysical element of man is not worth considering.
                Sure people can have "souls". I don't know what a soul is, though. So it doesn't mean anything to me.
                Is there a theory of souls, what they can do, how they do it?

                How can a soul see without eyes? I got no clue.
                Why is an immaterial soul spatially located above the operating table? Don't know.
                Why would I be motivated to think souls are a thing? Dunno

                These are all problematic and weird. Even if I thought the mind was a separate thing from the brain.

              • 3 days ago
                Anonymous

                >i don’t care to understand the opposition’s viewpoint because that might topple my position
                yeah if you have no commitment to truth then reading dissenting positions would be unappealing

              • 3 days ago
                Anonymous

                The opposition have no relevant viewpoint
                "souls" is not a theory that makes predictions
                it's unfalsifiable garbage

                Please tell me how souls work!
                see? you can't

              • 3 days ago
                Anonymous

                What do you mean "explain NDEs" ? I don't think NDEs is 1 thing
                What is it I need to explain, how people can form false memories after brain trauma to fill in a "blank", where the memories are all kinds of messed up and scrabbled
                If people have a memory of floating above their body and looking down on it during an operation. I don't think that actually happen. Like there was no soul-eyes floating above them and looking down.
                I don't think they necessarily are making it to get attention either (although I'm sure some people do). I think they have formed a false memory of this having happened.
                Why are the NDE stories so similar? Maybe because people have grown up in a society where stuff like this is portrayed in cartoons and movies all the time, they have heard other people tell stories, they've been expecting something like this to happen, they've been priemd
                Maybe there's an actual physiological reason, like the brain having some part to it that is responsible for spatially orienting you, telling your mind where your body is, etc. That gets fucked up, then it feels like you are located where you are looking, floating in the ceiling, etc

                It's so much work to make up 1 explanation.
                It's also silly, because I don't need to.
                If I think it's possible for some plausible natural explanation to exist, I don't need to actually make one up, or know it.
                There is no competing plausible supernatural explanation, not even close, not remotely. Could I be wrong about magic existing? Sure. Until then, induction puts my mind at ease with this stuff.
                All the explanations I know are natural. Maybe this one is too.

                elaborating a bit on the "false memories" thing, if you are unfamiliar with the idea
                know how people are never reporting the experience of having an NDE real-time?
                It's always the memory of having had an experience later being recalled
                That they wouldn't need to even have the experience, in order to create memories of having had it, still the (false) memory is accessible, as any normal memory, when they get out of anaesthesia/coma

                People have all kinds of false memories.
                Like some trip your sibling went on when you were a small child, but you weren't on it. But your family later told a lot of stories about.
                This is a common thing for people to form false memories of.
                People genuinely recall having gone on that trip, to that city and seen a lion, etc. Vividly they can recall the experience as a grownup.
                Despite it being entirely FALSE, they were at home with grandma, and only heard their sibling tell them about the lion.

      • 3 days ago
        Anonymous

        Even if NDE's are valid they're transcendental, you are effectively leaving reality, there is no evidence that god is having a continued effect in this reality

      • 3 days ago
        Anonymous

        Even if NDE's are valid they're transcendental, you are effectively leaving reality, there is no evidence that god is having a continued effect in this reality

        Also, many NDEs are pretty "borderline" when it comes to whether the person was dead or not, they're definitely in a grey area of brain activity so some of them could be chalked up to the brain releasing chemicals (including DMT, a very powerful psychedelic) to try to calm down the person who is dying.
        No human can actually report to us what it is like to be DEAD, death is a point of no return and thus a point of no knowledge for us living humans.

        Also your point about personal revelation is ridiculous, it could be easily countered by going downtown and watching homeless people ramble about their own personal "revelations". There's no easy way to separate schizo delusion from "revelation" without actual evidence.

  5. 3 days ago
    straight shota

    my kike söycestors from spain spread the ideologies from the middle east

  6. 2 days ago
    Anonymous

    People learned enough information from scientific exploration to determine that gods of mythology aren’t actually real.
    People aren’t straying from god, they’re learning god isn’t in religions if God exists.

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *