How are an omniscient God and free will compatible? No brainlet relidgiot hand waving please. Be at least Thomist level in your propositions.

How are an omniscient God and free will compatible?

No brainlet relidgiot hand waving please. Be at least Thomist level in your propositions.

  1. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    It's not compatible really. If God made you and he knows the future, he knows whether or not you'll to go hell or heaven. The religion still demands of you that you act according to its precepts anyway though, which means humans are created sick and then commanded to be well, so to speak.

  2. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    they are not compatible and don't let any abrahamist tell you otherwise

  3. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    before asking that question you have to prove to us that the Old Testament actually talks about omniscience and free will as we understand them today.
    so I'll wait for your findings and then we can resume the conversation

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      no no no, if you claim that the old testament uses a different definition of free will or omniscience than we use nowadays, then it's on you to prove it
      i love how you just make a big claim without any proof, worse yet, you ask us to prove the negative in the same sentence. this is some of the worse mind trickery i've seen on this site, and that's saying something.

      • 1 week ago
        Anonymous

        >bro prove to me people 6000 years ago had a different meaning of some concepts
        >>>LULZ is there

        • 1 week ago
          Anonymous

          that's the task he set up for himself though, it's not my fault it's impossible

          • 1 week ago
            Anonymous

            when interpreting old texts the default hypothesis is that they DON'T mean the same thing it means to our modern eyes.
            claiming that the Bible talks about omniscience and free will in the sense that God knows EVERYTHING and that our decisions are ours alone requires proof

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      have a nice day sophist. If you were really enthusiastic for discussion, you'd simply unpack your premises for everyone else to work with. People like you just wish to waste others' time.

      • 1 week ago
        Anonymous

        do you think the garden gnomes thought God could create a rock so heavy he couldn't pick it up? or do you think Yahweh can only do everything that is logically consistent?

        you won't answer because you're not historically equipped for this conversation

        • 1 week ago
          Anonymous

          Then enlighten the thread oh all knowing schizo homosexual. Few things worse than a homosexual acting like he's privy to secret knowledge as if it's noble to monopolize knowledge of God. Again, you're dishonest and not actually interested in discussion.

          • 1 week ago
            Anonymous

            it's simple, God has a plan for Israel and not an individual plan for everyone. this means the general fate of Israel is determined but the single humans are free to do whatever they want.
            Yahweh in so many instances does things that an omniscient being would never need to do, like "check out" what was happening in Sodom and Gomorrah.
            this suggests to us that God is powerful enough to influence our physical reality in many ways, so he can respond to problems, but he doesn't really know everything going on at all times.

            • 1 week ago
              Anonymous

              >he doesn't really know everything going on at all times.
              >God isn't omniscient
              Then he's not really a God. I wish I could smash people's like you faces in with a sledgehammer for being so blind to such poor reasoning.

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                >he's not really a God
                why not?
                you are showing your complete and utter ignorance again by applying your modern standards of what a God is to things written 4000 years ago.
                to those civilizations being able to know so much about reality and doing such acts was indeed the sign of a powerful God, I don't know what to tell you, he should have given them smartphones and shit?

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                >if God is so powerful, why do paradoxes arise when I try to comprehend it? Checkmate
                I really wish fewer atheist were retards. I feel so alone

  4. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    [log in to view media]

    Because having knowledge of what someone is going to do doesn't inhibit their ability to choose

    It would be on you to show they are not compatible

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      >Because having knowledge of what someone is going to do doesn't inhibit their ability to choose
      yes, it does. does the die "choose" which side to land on? if humans behavior can be perfectly predicted, then we are nothing more than mindless automatons.

      • 1 week ago
        Anonymous

        >does the die "choose" which side to land on?
        a die isn't a person

        • 1 week ago
          Anonymous

          the only difference is that a person is organic and much more complex. nothing else.

          • 1 week ago
            Anonymous

            thats a pretty important difference anon

            • 1 week ago
              Anonymous

              but not a fundamental one for the problem

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                why not

      • 1 week ago
        Anonymous

        But is the behavior being predicted? Not necessarily. An omniscient and omnipotent god cannot exist within our reality, he must exist outside of it. Given that, he can see all along the 4th dimension aka our timeline. Because he will see what situations you will be in and how you react, that doesn't necessarily make your reaction any less yours. If someone else was in that position, perhaps they would react differently.

        We all exist within a timeline and we all will do things in the future, no doubt. But does our existence within a timeline necessarily mean we cannot make our own decisions within?

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      >Because having knowledge of what someone is going to do doesn't inhibit their ability to choose

      No, but the guy in question will cast you into everlasting fire if you choose the wrong thing, and since he knows that you'll choose sin or righteousness everytime anyway, we are actually just his playthings and not actual free agents at all.

      • 1 week ago
        Anonymous

        well we are free agents because you can choose God or away from God

        • 1 week ago
          Anonymous

          But God knows what you'll choose beforehand, which means that the choice itself is meaningless.

          • 1 week ago
            Anonymous

            which brings us back to my first reply
            Because having knowledge of what someone is going to do doesn't inhibit their ability to choose

            It would be on you to show they are not compatible

            • 1 week ago
              Anonymous

              >ability to choose

              Again that's not the issue. The issue is that whether or not you end up in heaven or hell is completely determined by God because he knows what you'll choose before it even happens.

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                >Again that's not the issue
                free will is the whole point of this thread anon.
                sounds like you're just jumping onto something else.

                >issue is that whether or not you end up in heaven or hell is completely determined by God because he knows what you'll choose before it even happens
                ok so how is it completely determined by God

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                >free will is the whole point of this thread anon.

                Yes and why is free will important in religion anon? Explain that to me pls.

                Dumb fuck.

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                what are you seething about now?

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                >ok so how is it completely determined by God

                If I created you, and know every single thing about you, and know what you'll choose in every single moment of your life, and then tell you "If you choose the wrong thing, you'll burn in everlasting fire", you're literally either trolling people or being a sadist.

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                >If I created you, and know every single thing about you, and know what you'll choose in every single moment of your life, and then tell you "If you choose the wrong thing, you'll burn in everlasting fire", you're literally either trolling people or being a sadist.
                but none of that is mutually exclusive with free will

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                Not him obviously. I reject the notion of double predestination on the facts that 1) God explicitly desires for people to go to heaven 2) Everyone has some sort of possibility for going to heaven 3) I reject the preexistence of souls

                Following this, how would God be responsible exactly for the actions of the individual leading to damnation? People go to hell as a result of their evil souls, not for failing to fulfill some rituals or something.

              • 1 week ago
                Dirk

                Double predestination is clearly compatible with 1 and 3 and possibly compatible with 2 if you posit molinism

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                I don't believe in Molinism. I'll also add that I believe predestination (as it is usually understood) doesn't exist on the micro-scale, as in our individual human lives. It certainly exists on the macro-scale, major historical events such as the rise of the Roman Republic.

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                >how would God be responsible exactly for the actions of the individual leading to damnation?

                Because if God is omniscient, he already knows whether you will be eternally damned or not. Telling people they have a choice, when you already know what'll happen, is, as I said, either trolling or sadism.

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                >Because if God is omniscient, he already knows whether you will be eternally damned or not.
                And? They can still decide their fate on an individual level, God is simply observing them. God doesn't cause individuals to murder or cut their dicks off.

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                God has always been aware that some people will go to hell (through their own actions). And he created the universe knowing that the Fall would happen because the bliss of the elect would be so great, that it would outweigh the suffering of the damned.

                But God doesn't just pick someone and decide "Okay he's going to be damned" or whatever. I don't see how there is any contradiction with what I am stating?

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                >God doesn't cause individuals to murder or cut their dicks off.

                No, but he knew from the moment they were born that it was their fate to murder or self-mutilate. The concept of a free choice matters little, because whatever people ACTUALLY choose, is what God knew they would choose.

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                How does this make God responsible for anything? He is merely observing a natural process. He knows what the ultimate end result of all of us will be, but we obviously change throughout our lifetimes. There are many people who lived lives of degeneracy but turned to Christ. It's still their own actions that result in perdition.

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                >He is merely observing a natural process.

                Yes, a natural process that HE made and that he knows everything about.

                Do you even pay attention to the arguments people make?

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                I don't care about the arguments other people make. I still don't understand how God observing people making their own choices makes him responsible for anything. Yes, he is omniscient. How does this make him responsible for any of the evil someone does?

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                If you know that people are going to be evil long before they act evil, then condemning them to an eternity of hellfire makes very little sense.

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                But they go to hell because of their own choices. The responsibility is fully on them. You are making presumptions about God's omniscient nature and trying to force the idea that he causes people to act sinfully.

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                >Be god
                >Create bright, brilliant universe, vibrant in it's beauty and awe inspiring in its scope
                >Send someone to eternal timeout for masturbating and saying "fuck" one too many times
                God is either a bumbling fool or evil. Creating something broken then ordering it to be fixed on pain of death is either evil or hapsburg jaw-tier retardation

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                I don't believe God does that. As I said, he doesn't desire to send people to hell. It's not a matter of doing some minor sin one too many times.

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                Well what you believe is contrary to god's law.
                >The penalty of sin is death
                Sounds pretty cut n dry to me

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                And God is merciful.

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                Yet hell exists?

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                Yes. People who mutilate others, who rape children, etc. deserve hellfire. It is perfectly just. Spend any time in the real world or look at history and you will see how just hell is.

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                God is love. Turning away from God is the ultimate departure from love and joy. God wants us to be joined with Him, but he will not force it. So if someone turns away from God by disobeying him (doing things like raping and murdering), then when they die their soul will not join with God, but rather will be left in the darkness we know as Hell. We can’t fathom what Hell fees like while we live, because even when we sin we still are in the presence of God. Only the unrepentant dead can know the full pain and suffering of turning fully away from God.

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                Im sorry i dont mean to be reductionist, but that just reads like something from the Hobbit

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                >But they go to hell because of their own choices.

                But they aren't really choices if the one who condemns them knew in advance what they were going to do.

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                They are their choices. God doesn't make them do anything. Again foreknowledge doesn't equal him controlling us. I don't see how this is so hard to understand.

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                >God doesn't make them do anything.

                But he knew their actions before they happened.

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                Please explain to me how he causes it to happen.

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                God is the source of everything, which means he is the source of serial killers just like he is the source of love and companionship.

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                Because he created everything and ultimately is the source of everything. Humans having one step for free will doesn't change him being the ultimate source. Unless he isn't powerful enough to control human decisions.

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                He is powerful enough to control human decisions, he chooses not to. If he wanted to create robots then he could do so.

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                What is God supposed to do, obliterate anyone who does anything bad? God loves his creation. While anyone lives, they still have the chance to repent and turn towards God. But if God were to smite every creature that turns from him, no one would ever have the chance to come back into unity with God.

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                >What is God supposed to do, obliterate anyone who does anything bad?

                That's what he already does though, he just waits some 70 years.

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                God exists outside of time.
                Most non protestant Christians pray for the dead, because they think their prayers can retroactively benefit the dead person. God sees past, present and future simultaneously, so he knows all the prayers that will be dedicated to a person after his death, before his death.

                But him existing outside of time and knowing what we will do, is not the reason for us doing it, we have free will.

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                God determines who goes to heaven or hell and is perpetually locked after death

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                God's nature determines*

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                This

                Foreknowledge doesn't equal predestination. He knows everything we do, but we have the ability to decide for our selves by our actions.

                Tired of you sunken cost fallacy retards not addressing the implication of God being a cruel cunt by creating beings to reject him and suffer for it. It's nonsense.

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                We are created through our parents fucking. It's a natural process. Our existence itself is a result of free will.

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      They might be free to choose, this is philosophically sound I agree, but that comes across as hardly free will at all. Double Predestination is a Hell of a doctrine.

      Imagine this
      Someone records all your life, like in the Jim Carey movie The Truman Show

      Using a time machine, we send all the tapes recording every moment of your life from birth to death to a man living the year you were born, in a remote village on the other side of the planet, who will never leave his village, and using some kind of brain device, we put all the information about your life in his brain.

      That man will live knowing everything you have done, do and will do, without interferring with your free will.
      God can do that because he exists outside of time, and he has infinite processing power intellectually.

      Fucking useless

      • 1 week ago
        Anonymous

        >They might be free to choose, this is philosophically sound I agree, but that comes across as hardly free will at all. Double Predestination is a Hell of a doctrine.
        ok but you not liking the second option doesn't somehow invalidate free will

      • 1 week ago
        Anonymous

        determinism is scientifically unproven and inconsistent with scripture

        repentance makes no sense in a deterministic world

        it's not about interference
        the very fact that a precise sequence of events can be accurately known means that it's set in stone, impossible to change. this means that what we call "choice" is just an illusion of choice.

        [...]
        ask a priest or a rabbi what god's omniscience means and see what they will tell you. are you claiming that every single religion in existence has read the bible wrong and that only some mythical "lost meaning" that you don't even know is correct?

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      >Because having knowledge of what someone is going to do doesn't inhibit their ability to choose
      if god could be wrong about what you are going to do, he'd not be omniscient. he cannot be wrong about what you are going to do == you are going to do exactly what he knows you will do. therefore whatever happens cannot be termed 'choosing', since in the end you only have one real choice.

      • 1 week ago
        Anonymous

        >if god could be wrong about what you are going to do, he'd not be omniscient. he cannot be wrong about what you are going to do == you are going to do exactly what he knows you will do. therefore whatever happens cannot be termed 'choosing', since in the end you only have one real choice.
        again, just because God knows what you are going to choose doesn't somehow get rid of your ability to choose

        • 1 week ago
          Anonymous

          repeating this won't make it true. you don't have a choice if you don't have at least two alternatives to choose from, and you can only choose what god already knows you will, because otherwise he'd be in error.

          • 1 week ago
            Anonymous

            >if god could be wrong about what you are going to do, he'd not be omniscient. he cannot be wrong about what you are going to do == you are going to do exactly what he knows you will do. therefore whatever happens cannot be termed 'choosing', since in the end you only have one real choice.
            again, just because God knows what you are going to choose doesn't somehow get rid of your ability to choose

            Does the philosophy for this get deeper or did it get stuck on this, which is very Philosophy 101 State College tier

            • 1 week ago
              Anonymous

              >Does the philosophy
              The world cutting edge of philosophy i mean

              LULZ doesn't have many real philosophers, mainly failures who are only slightly better than a college freshman

  5. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    [log in to view media]

    There is no free will, only determination.

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      how do you know?

  6. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    Imagine this
    Someone records all your life, like in the Jim Carey movie The Truman Show

    Using a time machine, we send all the tapes recording every moment of your life from birth to death to a man living the year you were born, in a remote village on the other side of the planet, who will never leave his village, and using some kind of brain device, we put all the information about your life in his brain.

    That man will live knowing everything you have done, do and will do, without interferring with your free will.
    God can do that because he exists outside of time, and he has infinite processing power intellectually.

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      it's not about interference
      the very fact that a precise sequence of events can be accurately known means that it's set in stone, impossible to change. this means that what we call "choice" is just an illusion of choice.

      when interpreting old texts the default hypothesis is that they DON'T mean the same thing it means to our modern eyes.
      claiming that the Bible talks about omniscience and free will in the sense that God knows EVERYTHING and that our decisions are ours alone requires proof

      ask a priest or a rabbi what god's omniscience means and see what they will tell you. are you claiming that every single religion in existence has read the bible wrong and that only some mythical "lost meaning" that you don't even know is correct?

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      I think the very event of people out there knowing would find a way to influence your life. Even if they never leave the island.

  7. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    There's no contradiction. You either understand or you don't, simple as.
    >A man's heart deviseth his way: but the Lord directeth his steps.

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      which brings us back to my first reply
      Because having knowledge of what someone is going to do doesn't inhibit their ability to choose

      It would be on you to show they are not compatible

      i know that you think you can just repeat something completely irrational until it seems like it's true to you, but that doesn't make it any less irrational

      • 1 week ago
        Anonymous

        yes because I just repeated by reply to the original point when the original point was repeated in the thread.
        please try to keep up

  8. 1 week ago
    Dirk

    There is no inherent tension between the notions that an all knowing God exists and that man possesses free will. You have to suppose God only knows all future actions because he dictates them for this to even be an issue.

  9. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    Foreknowledge doesn't equal predestination. He knows everything we do, but we have the ability to decide for our selves by our actions.

  10. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    I guess you could see predestination as having to exist if you believe we preexist in some sort of soul cloud? But as a Christian I don't believe in this it seems ridiculous. Our souls didn't exist prior to conception, they were created through our parents having sex.

  11. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    seeing the future and actuating the future are not the same thing
    God can know what you're going to do with perfect knowledge and clarity but He doesn't make you do it, it's something you freely choose, but He knew you were going to freely choose to do it

    if you think that's paradoxical, it just means you can't comprehend 4-dimensional thinking outside of time

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      >God knows what will happen ahead of time
      >It's your fault
      ???

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      You certainly can't comprehend extradimensionality. I can conceive of several solutions to the OP, but I'm not aware of how Christians attempt to do it soundly.

      Like OP said, no brainlet hand waving. Back this up with other arguments or it's Hinduism tier drivel. How does Christian theology detail, in a philosophically cogent and persuasive manner, how free will disproves a sadistic God?

      • 1 week ago
        Anonymous

        They are their choices. God doesn't make them do anything. Again foreknowledge doesn't equal him controlling us. I don't see how this is so hard to understand.

        >But they go to hell because of their own choices.

        But they aren't really choices if the one who condemns them knew in advance what they were going to do.

        I wonder why free will defenders always bring up this opening, yet never attempt to bridge it systematically so that it thoroughly dispels its major objections. Pure self-assured midwit posting.

  12. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    >God knows everything you will ever do
    >does God also know everything HE will do?
    >yes of course
    >so isn't God a slave to his own determinism?
    christcucks have to admit God himself has no free will because just like many things either nobody has it or everyone has it

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      How would God being omniscient make him a slave to any higher power you troglodyte

  13. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    predestination is incompatible with God sending Jonah to save Nineveh, and later sending Nahum to predict its destruction

    garden gnomes believed that just men, existing in a city, could stop a city from being destroyed, because God would protect the city out of affection for the just men living there. That is why Abraham had that dialogue with God. And why a city of sinners can save itself if enough of its people repent and change their ways.

    Jesus himself would use counterfactuals like "if I had performed this miracles in xxxxx this would have happened"

    The brother of Jesus, James the Just, was called Just because people popularly thought he was one of the very just men that saves a city from being destroyed by God. Josephus (a garden gnome, not a Christian) links the murder of James the Just with the derstruction of Jerusalem

  14. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    Created sick, commanded to be well
    -Hitchens
    Imagine still believing this shit into adulthood. This is a religion created by and for iron age peasants.

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      [log in to view media]

      >Hitchens

      UHM YOU HAVE TO BE GOOD (AS IN WHAT I WANT YOU TO DO) BECUASE YOU JUST HAVE TO OKAY YES OBJECTIVE MORALITY DOESN'T EXIST BUT STILL IT'S AN OBJECTIVE TRUTH THAT GOD IS FALSE AND IT'S OBJECTIVE MORALITY THAT RACISMRINO AND SEXISMRINO IS BAD!

      • 1 week ago
        Anonymous

        Great post

      • 1 week ago
        Anonymous

        Do you think someone who doesn't believe in absolute truth, would claim the fact that absolute truth doesn't exist, is an absolute truth
        or
        do you think it would just be a truth, like any other
        ?

        • 1 week ago
          Anonymous

          They essentially claim that the fact that there is no absolute truth is an absolute truth.

          • 1 week ago
            Anonymous

            what work is the word "essentially" doing here? lmao
            is it supposed to let you get away with says shit that is essentially wrong?

            • 1 week ago
              Anonymous

              Because they aren't really aware of it. They do it unconsciously. That's why I added "essentially."

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                I don't think there are any absolute truths
                >ISN'T THAT AN ABSOLUTE TRUTH? *honk, honk*
                No, I just think it's true...

  15. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    It's pretty easy
    You define omniscience as knowing what is knowable
    And free will as the ability to have done otherwise (presumably you think this is coherent, since you are asking about free will. I don't)

  16. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    [log in to view media]

    Omnipotent God can do anything, ESPECIALLY the impossible.

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      That's an issue if you believe in a good God
      That makes the problem of evil grow super huge

  17. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    I knew that you were going to be a homosexual today, but it is you who chose to be a fag

  18. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    Free will can't possibly exist. "Magic space garden gnome" doesn't solve the problem, it just introduces an unnecessary entity.

  19. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    knowing about the future doesnt mean the future is set

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      Do elaborate

  20. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    God allowed us free will. We should live in accordance with His will, but we are free to turn away from him. Don’t see what’s so hard to understand about that.

  21. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    Even God gets bored and wants to be suprised

  22. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    According to my family
    1. God knew everything that would ever happen
    2. God knew every single one of your actions before you were created
    3. God knew everyone who would be in heaven and hell before they were created.
    4. God lead people into careers
    5. God gave everyone their intelligence, singing voice, athleticism and gave them the opportunities. Nothing you did was ever of yourself because God was responsible for all.
    6. God was regularly blessing people with money but the purpose of being blessed with the money is to help others.
    7. God put specific people in your life to either help them or learn a lesson from them.
    8. Everything that happens to you has a purpose under God's will.
    9. God was regularly decreeing things upon countries and its politics. Like making Haiti poor to punish them for their pact with Satan.
    10. God even used evil things in order to bring about good in accordance to His will.
    11. If someone died it's because God willed them to die.
    12. God blessed certain people by making sure they were born into Christian families.
    13. God picked your family and even spouse in accordance to His plans.
    14. Only those who have been transformed inside where the spirit of God makes them want to do good can be saved.
    15. We're all born tainted with original sin but some people are born to be supremely evil.

    Yet my family said we had free will.

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      Your family's wrong

      • 1 week ago
        Anonymous

        Is God not sovereign?

        • 1 week ago
          Anonymous

          He is sovereign, absolutely. That is why he allows free will and some level of chance. He's above micromanaging every little thing in our mortal lives. He could, but he observes most of the time. That's why miracles are not the norm.

  23. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    >Be at least larpist level in your propositions.
    libertarian free will is a spook

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      It's just at that point the omniscience compatibility is moot
      you don't think free will is coherent, of course how it ads up with omniscience is irrelevant

  24. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    They aren't
    free will doesn't exist anywhere in the bible
    also god creates evil. he literally says so in the bible too

    Abrahamists are fucking schizo cultists

  25. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    God is the demiurge in many ways, but maturity is realizing this is fair and to strive to be good anyway.

    • 1 week ago
      Dirk

      Esotericism is pretty immature

  26. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    It is not logically incompatibility and no amount of cope will change it

    Sure, he can work about our logic, but it’s still illogical
    >Hurr it’s logical that it’s illogical!
    Solipsist scum

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      >It is not logically incompatibility
      Stop taking drugs and return to the thread sir

  27. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    You are god.

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      Our minds are probably at a lower level of existence. Now how do Christians resolve this?

  28. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    [log in to view media]

    Free Will as a concept is logically inconsistent, and the real source of the debate is the discrepancy in how the term is applied.

    define Free Will, and the controversy evaporates.

  29. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    Frankly I never understood how free will was possible at all.

    If I consider me, who tries to be kind to people, versus somebody who doesn't try to be kind to people.

    Why do I try to be kind to people?
    That's the way I was raised.
    And it makes me feel bad when I'm not kind.
    So the factors were
    1) How I was raised (Out of my control)
    2) My nature (Also out of my control)

    If the choices we make are influenced by outside forces, then it's not really free will is it?
    We were destined to do what we did.
    And the choice to be a better person, how do people have the willpower?
    Where does willpower come from?
    If it is from within, how does it get there?

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      BTW I never took any sort of philosophy class, so if somebody has addressed this already please point me to a book.
      Also I'm not trying to say nihilistically lol nothing matters it's all predestined, obviously our choices matter, but using my logic it feels like our choices were never our choices

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      Free will is control over your actions, not over your upbringing.

      • 1 week ago
        Anonymous

        but what influences your actions?
        your upbringing.

  30. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    [log in to view media]

    >don't ever buy no weed from the gas station

  31. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    The Sun knows it all, bakalet

  32. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    idk man

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