Historically why have persians been obsessed with Ali even though he no interactions with them in his own lifetime?
Historically why have persians been obsessed with Ali even though he no interactions with them in his own lifetime?
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They haven't. Persians were Sunni up until the Safavid Dynasty, when it was shoved down their throats by force.
>Persians were Sunni up until the Safavid Dynasty, when it was shoved down their throats by force.
Stop repeating this dumb myth. Anyone who even takes a small dip into post islamic persian history comes face to face to Ali veneration which ending up producing the significant political movements in the region. There were tons of shia dynasties before the safavids and many shia majority regions. Even ignoring shia islam Ali veneration was common everywhere in Iran which dynasties like the timurids leaned into. Like do you think I'm stupid and am just going to take wikipedia articles at their word? The Buyids and Ismailis existed hundreds of years before the safavids.
Now kindly fuck off from this thread before it devolves into the same shit safavid threads always become. I have a question and that relates to Ali veneration in Iran. I dont give a shit about your stupid sunni shia conflict.
>Stop repeating this dumb myth
It's the consensus position on Persian history amongst academics. You can't expect people to talk to you based on your understanding of Persian history if you possess a fringe view that isn't taken seriously within the scholarship on this subject.
>a fringe view that isn't taken seriously within the scholarship on this subject
Outside of well respected sources such as memri TV and the pr guy for the Saudi family the other anon's opinion is the majority opinion
Okay buddy please explain how the Safavids turned Iran shia thing is true when we know the following.
>Mukhtar's rebellion saw the mass involvement of the mawali who were mostly persian for the first time in islqmic history
>expressions used such as the chair of Ali and Ali's 4 seals are motifs found in pre islamic Iran.
>the mawali of Mukhtar's rebellion would go found the kaysanite movement which started preparing for the toppling of the Umayyads which culminated in the abbasid revolution which was a shia movement in which the Abbasids claimed the imamate and where various Da'is were competing for which hashemite they would enthrone.
>Abu Muslim the Dai'i who put the Abbasids into power and was later killed by them was thought by his khurramite followers to be the reincarnation of Ali.
>More Khurramite rebellions spring up in Iran.
>Iranian Caspian dynasties who evaded being conquered by the caliphate become shia and at first Zaidi shia
>Qom in Iran and Kufa in Iraq are two poles of Shi'ism
>Shia majority/pluraity cities in Iran such as Kashan, Qom, Tus, Ray, Nishapur, etc
>authors of the major shia hadith collections were persian and shia scholars in general
>shia representatives in the abbasid government were the nawbakthi clan
>the twelver shia buyids who arise from Daylam expand throughout western Iran
>under their patronage twelver shi'ism is patronized
>parallel development of Ismaili shi'ism in Iran with many Persian da'is in service to the fatimids
>rise of the da'i Hassan e Sabbah who lead aresistance movement against invading sunni seljuks
>Alid, and Imam veneration becoming more and more popular even causing sunni dynasties like the khwarezmians and timurids to make overtures to shia
>half of post ilkhanate dynasties being shia
>notable is the sardabar dynasty which was a shia dynasty that arose out of populat revolt from khorasan which resembled the safavid rise to power
You have to be a moron to repeat the safavid turned iran myth
And soon Iran will turn into Mahayana once I take absolute power.
I remember you, you were in a thread talking about how you wanted to free Iran from Abrahamism right? I know a Persian girl at my school, she has green eyes and I thought she was Italian : )
I think the Catholics were behind the rise of the Safavids because they wanted to weaken the Ottomans.
If Iranians had allied with Ottomans, then Europe would have been finished, and honestly, I would have preferred this seeing how things have turned out.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shahrbanu
that hardly explains the veneration.
The serious answer?
Politics
The Persian empire wanted to distinguish itself from the Ottomans and Mughals
Tying Persian identity to Shiism reaffirmed their nationality and kept them out from the theological umbrella of Sunni leaders
>The Persian empire wanted to distinguish itself from the Ottomans and Mughals
You're as dumb as the first poster. Ali veneration has been a constant presence in post islamic iran as I've already mentioned
Yes
And then the Shah adopted it for political purposes
You're dumber than him.
Safavids slaughtered so many people and killed off the bloodline of Sassanian kingly lineage. They also imported a ton of Arabs.
I think Iran was finished by Mongolian invasions, and then Safavids took over the corpse.
I'm not even sure if most Iranians can trade their descent to the Sassanids.
this thread isn't even about the Safavids. What the fuck is wrong with you? Where do you autists keep coming from?
The Kaysanites, Khurramites, the shia northern dynasties, buyids, shia of Ray, Kashan, Qom, Tus, Nishapur, etc are actual relevant topics to early islamic Iran and Ali veneration in Iran. I've long learned from making any thread related to the safavids on this board but now I can't make a simple thread about Ali veneration in Post Islamic Iran without it being ruined by autists with a stick up their ass.
I doubt you're even Iranian, and you should shut the fuck up.
Shia is not in the geopolitical interests of Iran, and I find your recount of history highly revisionist.
Yaghnobis are the purest of Iranians, and they are Sunni.
Historically, the West has always been Iran's number 1 enemy and still is, so it would have been better if Iran allied with Ottomans to eradicate them.
Moreover, Iran could reunite with Turan and its Central Asian brothers more easily and not waste time antagonizing the Arabs of the Levant.
Iran becoming Shia only benefitted the West more than anyone else, and Westerners are a bunch of two-faced good for nothing slaves of israelites who have far less honor than even Bedouin bandits.
Oh I'm speaking to a retarded schizo no wonder
Fuck off. You're not even Iranian.
>I'm not even sure if most Iranians can trade their descent to the Sassanids.
I'm 100% sure more Englishmen, Frenchmen, Chinese, Germans, Indians, Egyptians, and Arabs can't either.
>bloodline of Sassanian kingly lineage
lmao your precious bloodline all became shia and mutted themselves with sayyids
Why are there so many Western Persophile? Do they work for think tanks or something? It pisses me off. Stick to your Arab buddies.
I fucking hate the West, and I hope China can help culturally enrich Iran.