Have you tried any memelangs?

Have you tried any memelangs?

  1. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    yeah, rust

  2. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    I tried Rust. That's why I hate trannies

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      I wish it were unsafe by default, and the safe stuff were opt-ins

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        that is stupid, rust's borrow checker stuff is just a second type system. it's not rocket science.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          Show me how to build a tree with it then where each node points to the parent and children

          Rust's borrow checker is so retarded.
          >"Oh, you need multiple ownership? Forget about it lol"

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Show me how to build a tree with it then where each node points to the parent and children

        Rust's borrow checker is so retarded.
        >"Oh, you need multiple ownership? Forget about it lol"

        any rustecean here is this seriously true?
        you can't make a tree without unsafe code?

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          It's worth mentioning that someone came up with a safe primitive (GhostCell) that allows you to implement doubly linked lists, trees with backlinks etc. without any dynamic checks and without any unsafe code. But it's a bit esoteric.

  3. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    i tried lua

  4. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    zig is fine

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      does it compile to c or c++ like nim, I couldn't find an answer yet

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        haxe is not a memelang. it is actually used (papers please ofr example). also it is made in ocaml, which is a meme lang used in israelite stuff. good morning sirs

        nim has no roadmap or foundation. andreas is retarded
        >trust bro roadmap will come with zig 3.0, everything will be fixed soon bro just trust me bro

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          with nim*

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          >spreading nim fud
          >can't even get the name right, confuses it with zig

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          >spreading nim fud
          >can't even get the name right, confuses it with zig

          there is a roadmap
          https://github.com/nim-lang/RFCs/issues/437

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          >ocaml is a memelang
          I dunno if F# proves your point or it's contrary coming from Microsoft where it's 50/50 they wanted a ML done right or to use OCaml but not-made-here set in.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        no, the stage1 compiler uses llvm so obviously not

  5. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    I unironically came in here to mention Lua and Rust.

    Lua for some game dev stuff that ended up being moved to a more sensible engine, and Rust for some systems programming before I realized it was essentially just C plus those child-proof caps they put on bottles of pills to keep retards from swallowing the whole bottle.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      i tried lua

      lua's a hue meme but not a memelang, perfect for prototyping shit in love2d

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Lua isn't a meme. Lua is used extensively in game dev.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        That's the only thing Lua is used for. IMO that makes it a memelang. Although it's used for good reason, to be fair - it's got the best embedding story of any language I know of.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          luajit is literally used in CERN

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Also adobe lightroom

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          'memelang' here means the spate of languages trying to innovate in the C space

          C replacements

          I'd put Rust in there with V, Nim, Hare, Beef, Nim, Odin, Zig, Haxe

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Whether a language is a memelang or not has nothing to do with its domain. It just so happens that there are a lot of "C killer" memelangs around. Rust also isn't a memelang. Sorry chuds, but it's actually used in the real world.

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              'here' -- as in this thread

              get back to me when you move up a few esl tiers

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              It is a memelang.
              >"Just have an immutable reference that produces mutable references. It's so elegant! It's not a cope at all!"

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                What are you talking about?

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                ://doc.rust-lang.org/book/ch15-05-interior-mutability.html

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                Yes, they are actually called shared references, not immutable references. But 99% of the time it's accurate.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                Anon... you reach them through an immutable reference 😐

                >Interior mutability is a design pattern in Rust that allows you to mutate data even when there are immutable references to that data; normally, this action is disallowed by the borrowing rules. To mutate data, the pattern uses unsafe code inside a data structure to bend Rust’s usual rules that govern mutation and borrowing.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                That specific documentation page confusingly calls them immutable references, but they are shared references.
                https://doc.rust-lang.org/reference/types/pointer.html#shared-references-

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                The reference to the smart pointer is immutable

                >self.sent_messages.borrow_mut().push(String::from(message));

                self is immutable, yet sent_messages allows you to get both mutable and immutable references, and might panic during runtime if you mess the borrow checking rules which are check in runtime. So it's not just an ugly pattern, it also causes performance penalty

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                "Immutable reference" is an incorrect term. And it's important that these dynamic checks happen because otherwise it would be easy to produce UB. If you don't want dynamic checks, you can use atomics, Cell, or UnsafeCell (which is the "primitive" of interior mutability).

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                It's not, self is an immutable reference.
                fn send(&self, message: &str) {
                self.sent_messages.borrow_mut().push(String::from(message));
                }

                It is an ugly pattern. Basically all the Cells in Rust rely on the unsafe Cell, and whenever they use unsafe code it ends up in very convoluted and ugly code.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                The book is wrong to call it an immutable reference.
                >Basically all the Cells in Rust rely on the unsafe Cell, and whenever they use unsafe code it ends up in very convoluted and ugly code.
                This is nonsense.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                Is self an immutable or mutable reference?

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                It's a shared reference.

                [...]
                any rustecean here is this seriously true?
                you can't make a tree without unsafe code?

                You can make a tree, but if you want backlinks then you need unsafe pointers or safe smart pointers (e.g. Rc).

                pub struct Cell<T: ?Sized> {
                value: UnsafeCell<T>,
                }

                >https://doc.rust-lang.org/src/core/cell.rs.html#244-246

                So?

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                It's not a shared reference. self in this method definition is an immutable reference.

                >So?
                So it's nonsense but it's true? 😐 Using unsafe code makes Rust code convoluted and hard to understand, because it's basically a hack around the borrow checker.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                Calling it an immutable reference is wrong. Saying "unsafe code bad" is moronic.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                pub struct Cell<T: ?Sized> {
                value: UnsafeCell<T>,
                }

                >https://doc.rust-lang.org/src/core/cell.rs.html#244-246

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                That file isn't really ugly or convoluted.

                It's not a shared reference. self in this method definition is an immutable reference.

                >So?
                So it's nonsense but it's true? 😐 Using unsafe code makes Rust code convoluted and hard to understand, because it's basically a hack around the borrow checker.

                I think the proper comparison is to C++. Is unsafe Rust code much uglier than (also unsafe) C++ code?

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                I wasn't talking about that file, but when unsafe code gets abstracted and used, like RefCell, like the snippet I've shared that showed interior mutability.

                Calling it an immutable reference is wrong. Saying "unsafe code bad" is moronic.

                Fine, it's an immutable shared reference that points to RefCell which generates mutable references. Happy now? It is still ugly af

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                C++ doesn't need ugly patterns like interior mutability in the first place. So yeah, unsafe C++ looks better than unsafe Rust

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                You can't really compare "unsafe" code in Rust and C++
                Because unsafe to Rust doesn't necessarily mean it's bad or will cause random memory access. Rust rules exclude some correct programs (which are used in many algorithms btw) because it sees it as a better trade off than allowing these correct programs but with the possibility of introducing incorrect ones. So this contradiction makes working with Rust really painful.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                >So this contradiction makes working with Rust really painful.
                No, it doesn't. I'd hazard a guess you have never (substantially) worked with Rust.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                not that anon but what do you consider to be substantial code? rust programmers trial & error until the red squigglies disappear from what i've seen, very productive

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                How is this even an argument? But fine, let's roll with it. Let's ask someone who actually has a job at Netflix if it's painful to work with or not

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                He admits he's not good at writing Rust. Who gives a shit? I would never claim that Rust is easy to use. It just eliminates footguns (mostly).

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                Because he's afraid of rustroons after him. He messed around with rust more than with go, yet he managed to pick up go much easier and faster.

                >Also I fail to see what this has to do with unsafe Rust.

                You're the one who said that working with Rust isn't really painful, when to do anything useful in Rust you have to use all these abstractions over unsafe code which makes everything convoluted and ugly.

                Even the definition of unsafe in Rust is inconsistent. For me, this is a big flaw in the language design. Calling safe programs unsafe just because. TypeScript doesn't have this problem. the any type is literally an any type. It doesn't have this dumb inconsistency and muddled thinking and definitions

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                He admits he's not good at writing Rust. Who gives a shit? I would never claim that Rust is easy to use. It just eliminates footguns (mostly).

                Also I fail to see what this has to do with unsafe Rust.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                Nobody calls RefCells elegant, they're just an escape hatch you need every once in a while. Not that remarkable. Far from the biggest problem Rust has and no worse than many of the problems other non-memelangs have.
                Cell is zero-overhead and pretty clever.
                The locks and atomics are great.

                Is self an immutable or mutable reference?

                So-called "immutable" references are shared references. "Mutable" references are unique references.
                self is a shared reference.
                Read this: https://smallcultfollowing.com/babysteps/blog/2014/05/13/focusing-on-ownership/

                [...]
                any rustecean here is this seriously true?
                you can't make a tree without unsafe code?

                If you want backlinks you need either unsafe code or runtime bookkeeping with reference-counting and whatnot.
                Implementing data structures in Rust unfortunately isn't very easy. But on the other hand you can design a safe interface so that users of the data structure can't mess it up.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          I've seen a big enterprise software that used luajit as a sort of DSL for domain experts to write rules in.

  6. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Yeah I tried Python

  7. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    yeah, i use beef extensively

  8. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Does zsh count as a meme

  9. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    yeah, I used Nim for some time and enjoyed it. Still needs some work however

  10. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Elixir and Rust, enjoyed both. I fucked over 100 tranny and twinks in my lifetime.Caught only chlamydia but cured it with a single pill.

  11. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    nim and it's great, just needs libraries

  12. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >lua
    why do you guys keep getting baited
    omfg get new material

  13. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    I don't have enough time to fuck around with memes. I've always wanted to build something with Haxe though.

  14. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    I used crystal to generate a tool that formats documentation for my job.

  15. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Yes, Zig. It's nice actually.

  16. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    is forth a memelang or some kind of suicide mission?

  17. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    nim is nice but docs seem shitty to me. I don't know why but navigating their docs and figuring out how to do something is really hard work. For example lookup how to do async its really convoluted like half the docs are missing.
    Haxe is nice very nice if the compile times weren't so long. 2s for a basic hello world just sucks. A c++ similar program compiles in ~0.1s.

  18. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    If any of you anons are into math, you should check out lean4, big brains are using it to formalize mathematics.I tried to work through the tutorial, but had to drop it because of lack of free time. Seems very interesting tho.

  19. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Zig is only nice for having a very portable C/C++ LLVM toolch-
    >have to recompile EVERYTHING to avoid linker errors

  20. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    No, I have a job.

  21. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    tried zig, can't stand its autism of error out on unused parameters

  22. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >a tool I use literally every day in my workflow "rewrites in Zig"
    >its supposed to be 100% compatible drop in replacement, version written in C is no longer updated
    >its 5% faster, but crashes if a filename has invalid unicode
    >makes it completely unusable, since I process millions of random files daily

    I hate memelangs now. The tool is ncdu.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      are you sure?

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Yes. Running ncdu v1 completes on my dataset. Ncdu v2 crashes after about 6 hours with some Unicode error.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          6 hours?

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Yes, it usually takes around 12 hours to do the whole thing.

            Its 230+TB across 18+ million files of porn. Somewhere in there, some filename crashes zigged ncdu.

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              6 hours?

              Proof, the ncdu listing I generated for my last backup (after compiling v1)

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                Did you try to figure out which files kill it?

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                No, the generated file always ends in a different place, and it takes 6 hours to narrow down a bit. I looked into opening a bug report but they're not on github for hipster reasons. I'll probably just send an email

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                Just edit their code to log the files it is looking at somewhere.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          >a tool I use literally every day in my workflow "rewrites in Zig"
          >its supposed to be 100% compatible drop in replacement, version written in C is no longer updated
          >its 5% faster, but crashes if a filename has invalid unicode
          >makes it completely unusable, since I process millions of random files daily

          I hate memelangs now. The tool is ncdu.

          to be fair, nothing handles unicode and any attempt is futile

          6 hours?

          datasets are big or nothing.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          Sounds like a (You) problem

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Not handling Unicode means you don't care about malformed UTF-8.
        Adding proper Unicode support means you'll handle valid UTF-8 better but you also have to address invalid UTF-8 somehow. The laziest way is to crash, slightly less lazy is to clean it with replacement characters. The proper way is to actually fall back to processing byte-by-byte but many people don't do this.
        Rust has an overwrought system for invalid unicode called OsStr (which also does UTF-16 on Windows), and third-party libraries for other approaches. I don't know how Zig does things.

  23. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Perl one liners are allright under the scope they were created for and i think is way too demonized. If we strictly had followed the "nuke ill suited square in round pegs" principle Javascript would've died a long time ago (as rightfully should've).

  24. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    I don't consider V a meme

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      V is the only actual meme

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >networking api calls curl, not uses libcurl, calls curl
      Meme

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      V is a piece of shit

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Why?

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      V is the memeiest language of all. You have to be a complete idiot to fall for anything the creator says.

  25. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    I tried go. having a compiled C-like lang where unicode just werks was nice
    but it had too many things that triggered my autism. like the package import nonsense, enforced formatting, unused vars being compile errors, etc. just shut the FUCK up and let me program
    also got tired of typing if err != nil and _, everywhere

    still a decent lang I might use it some more some time. it seemed good for webshit

  26. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Zig is ok. I've been doing C guides with Zig, for example the build your own text editor thing.

  27. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    i kinda liked odin but i'm with the bnuuy now

  28. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Haxe was pretty comfy I guess

  29. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Nim is awesome. I pretty much use it as a drop in replacement for python.

  30. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    I'm going to try Zig this weekend. I rejected V because its maintainer appears to be an amateur who handles criticism poorly, and Nim because I don't think it's really suitable for the same niche as C (it has a weird mix of low-level and high-level features, such as five optional garbage collection strategies).

  31. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >tfw no Julia mention
    Sad.

  32. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    I've read a fair bit of Haxe.
    Zig, Nim, Odin, V and now Carbon have nothing to provide me that Go can't.
    Haxe is super interesting to me because it could conceivably become a proper cross-platform game engine basis similar but more portable than dotnet/C#.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >Haxe
      already is with something like heaps io?

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        I know about heaps, it's how I played Dead Cells on OpenBSD, but to be "proper" cross platform to me that is possible with Haxe/Heaps would require two more generations of hardware with the current day ones still supported.
        I'm saying Haxe has the possibly to kill remakes/remasters dead and you simply ship a new build of the exact same game to new customers who would trivially play multiplayer games with someone on 3 generations behind.

  33. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Rust is such a memelang it can't implement a graph lmao

    >https://stackoverflow.com/a/28622326/18682208

    >"Graphs are le bad! Doubly linked lists are le bad!!"

  34. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Forth on stm32

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      for me, is massively overtemplated c++ on already overtemplated mbedOS so compile times lets me go home early

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >so compile times lets me go home early
        I work remotely so its freertos/zephyr and c99 most of the time

  35. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    rust is more trouble than it's worth for anything I'd want to work on
    I like nim but I don't like writing nim
    zig is comfy but it's still too undercooked

    if zig makes it to 1.0 with some of the proposed features I'll make the switch

  36. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Strange that these two threads were next to each other

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