I read a few passages of Cioran that deeply resonated with me. But I want to understand Pessimism properly from the beginning. Is there an order to it? Would really appreciate if somehow posted on how to approach pessimism with respect to literature?
the logical conclusion of pessimism is to kill yourself, that's about the only notable thing to come from it you'd need to know
>“The fact that life has no meaning is a reason to live --moreover, the only one.”
Emil Cioran
What a contradiction. He’s just saying no meaning is his meaning.
He doesn't say "meaning", but says "reason" instead.
It's the same thing
Not really. "Meaning" here is purpose. "Reason" is simply the logical explaination of things.
The ancient granddaddy of Philosophical Pessimism is Silenus, see The Wisdom of Silenus.
The recent daddy of Philosophical Pessimism is Schopenhaeur, he is the great sage or saint of Pessimism. For crystal clear supreme view of pessimism read:
>On the Suffering of World and On the Vanity of Life
For intro to "systematic" pessimistic philosophy read:
>Weltschmerz: Pessimism in German Philosophy
For a general introduction to Philosophical Pessimism read
>The Conspiracy Aganist the Human Race by Ligotti
Also read
>Everything by Emil Cioran
>Zapffe's The Last Messiah
Fag
It's true but it somehow makes its philosophy extremely funny to me. Cioran never fails to make me laugh, he had such a perfect grasp on what it's like to really feel the futility of it all, and he makes everything about life sounds so absurd; my brain works in the same way most of the time and it's definitely agonizing, but sometimes going too far in the absurdity makes the pain go away. If life is so absurd anyway why should i even care to die so quickly, might as well go through it, the impermanence of it makes it short enough to endure. Even if i'm deeply depressed and existentially anxious for the rest of my existence, what the fuck is my existence in the grand scheme of things anyway? The passive state of my being is being alive for now, i'll just let things be. I'll die soon enough, we all do.
Cioran took the stoic idea that suicide is way out, that door is always open and pushed it to extreme. He wrote in All Gall is Divided that without the option of suicide he would have surely killed himself kek. The people who hate him don't understand him or don't even read his books.
The idea of suicide is so fucking liberating. I love Cioran, he wrote in Drawn and Quartered that he is nothing more than a sectary of his sensations lmaoooo. He hated being a human, it absolute disgusted him and wanted to see the end of man but ironically he the most "human" human being I know. He would took this as an insult.
I wholeheartedly agree.
>without the option of suicide he would have surely killed himself
He's hilarious. But at the same time it's a fondamentally good loophole. I laugh so much from the shit he's said, in fact, i think there's nothing funnier in life than the absurdity of life itself. Therefore, he really cheers me up when i'm feeling down.
>i think there's nothing funnier in life than the absurdity of life itself.
Same with Beckett and films of Lars Von Trier. They are so funny and self-aware.
Beckett one time said to Cioran that "I take refuge in your ruins". I cried when I first read that, it is such a beautiful expression. That's exactly how I always feel whenever I read Cioran.
>the logical conclusion of pessimism is to kill yourself
No, it's to not have children.
just read beiser's weltschmerz and you'll have a good idea of the tradition of pessimism born out of schopenhauer. for modern u can look at eugene thacker and ligotti
Thank you.
Plato>Kant>Schopenhauer>Cioran. Thats the pessimism road even though Plato wasnt really a pessimist as he definitely believed in heaven.
Thanks. Isn't Plato huge though?
Yes but just focus on his theory of forms and allegory of the cave. And a bit how his worldview clashed with Aristotle. With that you can go to Kant (read an abridged version because Kant is hard for a nooby). And then Schopenhauer which who basically created pessimism, and Cioran's reaction to Schopenhauer afterwards.
>Plato definitely believed in heaven
Why do you speak if you don’t know what you’re talking about?
Heaven is not just a reference to the Biblical concept. The material world being emanations from forms in some kind of heaven is absolutely how Plato viewed reality
You might be retarded, anon. Or just a Straussian. Not really much difference in all fairness.
>where to start
Mess up your sleep schedule, eat only junk food, only consume dreary shit media like Schopenhauer, antinatalism, True Detective, Jerry Springer Show. Start up heroin and opioids
Brutal but honest.
What does heroin and junk food have to do with pessimism
Nothing, people are retarded and pessimism is just another word that triggers their hate.
Ironically enough pessimists are almost always taking better care of their healths, Cioran quit smoking and went on years without coffee or alcohol. Whole religion Buddha built is around not poisoning your body.
Messing up your general health to further your desire for a bad mood
>Being in a foul mood your whole life leads to a healthier lifestyle
Oh shut up
Stop trying so hard to identify with your sufferings. I’m sorry, but you’re never going to become comfortable with suffering. It doesn’t matter if you try to make it a part of your personality.
>True Detective
Probably one of the most hopeful pieces of television that’s ever come out. Hope that you’re reunited with your dead loved ones despite the grittiness of the world is exceptionally rare in media.
>Whole religion Buddha built is around not poisoning your body.
I’ve “poisoned” the shit out of my body, and I still ended up at peace. Drugs and unhealthy habits had very little to do with it all. Buddha was a hack.
Schopenhauer is much much deeper than Cioran and will completely tear you down to nothingness if you truly UNDERSTAND him.
Cioran's skepticism gave him contemporary edge over objectivist like Schopenhauer who is "old fashioned" for 20th and 21st century minds.
Were there any disagreements between pessimistic philosophers on any components of pessimistic philosophy?
It doesn’t matter.
Yes, see Weltschmerz: Pessimism in German Philosophy
Nietzsche was also a Pessimist. Ligotti talked shit about Schopenhauer's system.
>Ligotti talked shit about Schopenhauer's system.
Can you elaborate?
>For example, The World as Will and Representation (two volumes, 1819 and 1844) by the German philosopher Arthur Schopenhauer lays out one of the most absorbingly intricate metaphysical systems ever contrived—a quasi-mystical elaboration of a “Will-to-live” as the hypostasis of reality, a mindless and untiring master of all being, a directionless force that makes everything do what it does, an imbecilic puppeteer that sustains the ruckus of our world. But Schopenhauer’s Will-to-live, commendable as it may seem as a hypothesis, is too overwrought in the proving to be anything more than another intellectual labyrinth for specialists in perplexity. Comparatively, Zapffe’s principles are non-technical and could never arouse the passion of professors or practitioners of philosophy, who typically circle around the minutiae of theories and not the gross facts of our lives. If we must think, it should be done only in circles, outside of which lies the unthinkable. Evidence: While commentators on Schopenhauer’s thought have seized upon it as a philosophical system ripe for academic analysis, they do not emphasize that its ideal endpoint—the denial of the Will-to-live—is a construct for the end of human existence. But even Schopenhauer himself did not push this as aspect of his philosophy to its ideal endpoint, which has kept him in fair repute as a philosopher.
Interesting. I heard of that book too many times now, do you think it's worth a read?
Yes, it is good if you actually read it. Ligotti is very honest and takes a subjective point of view.
This is Ligotti's The Conspiracy Against the Human Race
>LOL DUDE WHAT IF YOU HADN'T BEEN BORN
>mind =blown
I can't imagine not being indifferent to 99% of pessimist examples of how the world is so le bad. I literally cannot imagine not existing. I will continue to disassociate with the world while you wallow in it.
t. schizoid chad
Then you misunderstand pessimism.
I couldn't care less.
So you don't fear anything?
Might be an odd question but, what is a pessimist's opinion on might is right. Sure, life sucks, but the strongests of all might not hold the same opinion. They might be happy and satisfied with life, even if they are ones that are causing misery to others.
read the first chapter of the Yoga Vasistha (on dispassion/vairagya)
cioran and schopenhauer were spiritual boomers who lived carefree lives in homogeneous high trust societies. if you look at what they did instead of what they said, it should be obvious to you that pessimism is nothing but a pose, it's the help of those who need no help
I think Cioran's ill health had a great affect on his personality.