The Goths are so fucking cool. I love Rome, but I can't help but learn as much as I can about these peoples. The idea of a nation superimposing themselves across the Roman Empire is so alien to my current worldview; I can't imagine like the people of Lithuania just up and moving to Hungary, or the people of Moldavia moving to Spain.
The way they waged war, the way they traded, lived, ate, slept, married- ALL of their lives are just so interesting.
So Goth appreciation post. Man these fuckers were cool. Even the Vandals, you dirty mother fuckers
I agree. I wish there more movies about novels about the Goths during the late Roman Empire, but there’s literally so little!!
>but there’s literally so little!!
what are there? Never seen anything.
>novels about the Goths
Well, I'm planning to work on that. There are some around, but not many, as you indicate.
We have King Heidrek the Wise, that's basically an Epic from the period.
Since you find Goths so interesting would you like one of the most detailed description of a Gothic king by a Roman?
He describes Theodoric’s daily routine, his physical appearance and his behaviour.
checked and ill look at the link thanks mate
in today's day and age i never want to see adaptations of shit i love, but yeah some kind of quality attempt at portraying something like Galla Placidia's life or the settlement of the Suebi into Spain or even Odoacer sending the imperial regalia to Constantinople would be cool to see
I’m always upset how little sources there are for 5th century Rome. There’s far more surviving sources about 1st to 2nd century Rome, which are the best documented time periods. I wish there was a time machine just so I could back in time to document everything.
It’s probably also why it’s so hard to make movies and novels about that time period.
kino, great find anon
Goths are the most pathetic of all the Germanic people's to invade the Roman Empire. The Visigoths were just abject failures in everything, the Ostrogoths had only two Kings of any note and both got shafted by the far superior Franks.
Don´t talk like that about my ancestors, mother*ucker.
They were brave enough to destroy the Roman Empire from within (they even sacked Rome several times).
They also took the rest of Roman Spain and created a 300 years old Kingdom and gave us the Law that Spain has been using for 1000 years (Liber Iudicorum that descends from Recesvinto Code).
>Piggybacks off of Gaiseric's efforts in (successfully) combating the Roman Empire
>proceeds to lose every battle, fall into complete anarchy twice for decades at a time, be the most oppressive, poor and weak Kingdom in all of Western Europe
>Does less than the Franks, Vandals and even Burgundians in law codes
>Loses every single war against any other foreign competitor
>Achieves no lasting cultural or historical works
They were shit.
What kind of autism is this? They were easily the most impressive of the Germanic tribes, not to take anything away from the Franks or Lombards. Goths actually values Roman culture, they didn't destroy Rome from within or try to subvert it, they tried to continue it and integrate it with their bar bar culture which is why it ultimately failed.
They became civilized in Italy and Iberia too quickly, some were neoplatonists even. But Rome had its last golden age under Gothic kings. Literally couldn't happen under Franks and Lombards because for one the Eastern Romans devastated the peninsula and also because west Germanic tribes cucked to the church immediately rather than play hard to get like the Visigoths. They just didn't care about architecture or any of that quite like the Goths valued it, based on all that has been left behind it's not even comparible.
When you talk about the intellectual achievements of these people, you're often just talking about Greeks and Romans, or Germanics educated by them too so no need to squabble over what's there like a bunch of snownaggers. But in terms of martial valor the Goths we're spoken of so highly that their legacy will forever be that of peerless warriors when they were still keeping up their warrior traditions, before the settled in western Europe and even then for some time after.
>they tried to continue it and integrate it
That's the last thing they tried doing. The Visigoths had the strongest ethnic segregation laws out of all people in Western Europe. They didn't even allow Romans to serve as soldiers, work in administration or ever appoint them to roles. Fuck even the Vandals were more accommodating.
>They just didn't care about architecture or any of that quite like the Goths valued it
What are you smoking? The Frankish and even Lombard achievements in architecture far outdo the Goths, there's far more of it, more royal patronage towards these structures and more impressive monuments from the Franks and Lombard's than any of the Goths.
>When you talk about the intellectual achievements of these people, you're often just talking about Greeks and Romans, or Germanics educated by them
No. It might surprise you since the Goths produced nothing. But there was actually an intellectual community in most of Western Europe that existed independently and was patronized by Nobility. The Vandals were noted producers of Hagiographies and poetry, the Franks of Histories, military manuals, epic poetry and rhetoric manuals. The only output ever done under the auspices of state under the Gothic Kingdoms was during Theodoric's reign, and that only came out of the Senate, an independent entity. Which was quickly purged by him.
> But in terms of martial valor the Goths we're spoken of so highly
Lmao. These are the people that lost nearly every single war they got into. Known for their incompetence in military matters. There have only ever been three notable kings to 'win' wars. Euric won through treaties, Theodoric won through treachery and only Totila made considerable success actually fighting on the field and he lost regardless.
>Known for their incompetence in military matters.
>talking about the people who are synonymous with the Fall of Rome
That painting of Ataulf was painted in the XIX century.
The Goths looked like this:
You can google images "Cantigas de Santa Maria" to see more images of the time (early Castilla).
I think it's mostly just christian painting tradition, they didn't look exactly like that. Archeologically is proven that they looked like this.
The Cantigas were miniatures painted in early Castilla and many of the people shown are literally Goths or Goths descendants. They obviously were not Picasso so they are not shown with their real features but we can get an idea.
well these are some court musicians and not warriors or free men, no armor is showed there
yeah, but we are talking about the Gothic ethnicity, not just soldiers.
There’s actually a description of how 5th barbarians in Gaul looked like
> You who are so fond of looking at arms and armed men, what delight, I believe, you would have felt if you had seen the young prince, Sigismer, decked out in the garb and fashion of his nation, as the chosen lover or as suitor paying a visit to the palace of his father-in-law. Before him went a horse gaily caparisoned; other horses, which were laden with flashing israeliteels, preceded and followed him. But the most gracious sight of the procession was the prince himself marching on foot amid his runners and footmen, clad in gleaming scarlet, ruddy gold, and pure-white silk, while his fair hair, glowing cheeks, and white skin matched the colours of such a bright dress.
The princelings and allies who escorted him presented an aspect terrifying even in peacetime. Their feet from toe to ankle were laced in hairy shoes; knees, shins, and calves were uncovered: above this was a tight-fitting many-coloured garment, drawn up high, and hardly descending to their bare knees, the sleeves covering only the upper part of the arm. They wore green cloaks with crimson borders. Their swords were suspended from the shoulders by overrunning baldrics, pressed to their body, which was girded with studded deerskins. This equipment adorned and armed them at the same time. Barbed lances and missile axes filled their right hands, and their left sides were protected by shields, the gleam of which, golden on the central bosses and silvery-white round the rims, betrayed at once the wearers’ wealth and ruling passions…
Although it’s a description of Burgundians, not Goths.
> In Sidonius’ letter to his friend Domnicus, we get a glimpse of a “Barbarian prince” parading up to the palace of his father-in-law, the Burgundian King, Gundobad.
Your image was also produced hundreds of years after the goths and is a better projection of how 13th century Iberians looked. Medieval depictions of the past are famously anachronistic because they had little way of knowing how people in ancient times looked. The 19th century image, while also wrong, is probably a closer estimate.
But as you can see most of them are tall, blond, and probably blue eyed (they did not paint the colour of the eyes in miniatures). This means that they most probably were of gothic ancestry (plus other recent ancestry). So it is the images more similar to what the goths could have looked like when they arrived in Spain and it is totally different from the XIX century paintings like in the OP (or the pictures in the wikipedia about each gothic king).
Goths were from Gotaland in Sweden
steal his look
Celto-Germanic clothing looks so fucking comfy and cool. I got some early Anglo-Saxon clothing with leg wraps and medieval-ish boots. All of the clothing is made of linen and I have to say that its the most comfortable, breathable clothing I own, and is much stronger than anything I buy from a clothing store. It cost a pretty penny though.
How did every single East Germanic language including Gothic get cucked despite them spreading everywhere? Literally none of them exist anymore.
Goths are still alive and well in their homeland. Territories in Eastern Europe were their colonies.
But what does "got" mean? Gotland, Gothemburg, etc.
Does it mean "God", or "Good"? I know that goths descend from the Getae, but they have the same root as word, it must mean something.
> also God; Old English god "supreme being, deity; the Christian God; image of a god; godlike person," from Proto-Germanic *guthan (source also of Old Saxon, Old Frisian, Dutch god, Old High German got, German Gott, Old Norse guð, Gothic guþ), which is of uncertain origin; perhaps from PIE *ghut- "that which is invoked" (source also of Old Church Slavonic zovo "to call," Sanskrit huta- "invoked," an epithet of Indra), from root *gheu(e)- "to call, invoke." The notion could be "divine entity summoned to a sacrifice."
> But some trace it to PIE *ghu-to- "poured," from root *gheu- "to pour, pour a libation" (source of Greek khein "to pour," also in the phrase khute gaia "poured earth," referring to a burial mound; see found (v.2)).
> Originally a neuter noun in Germanic, the gender shifted to masculine after the coming of Christianity. Old English god probably was closer in sense to Latin numen. A better word to translate deus might have been Proto-Germanic *ansuz, but this was used only of the highest deities in the Germanic religion, and not of foreign gods, and it was never used of the Christian God. It survives in English mainly in the personal names beginning in Os-.
As for Gotland
> Swedish word Gotland comes from Swedish land, Proto-Indo-European *ǵʰewd-, and later Proto-Germanic *geutaną (To pour.)
The first one makes more sense.
They were basically a farmers ethnicity. They wandered through Europe for centuries. Most goths in Spain went to very rural areas and ended up as farmers. You can´t expect the same than from a real army as the Romans or others.
They left the Recesvintus Codex which is the first law in the Western World. Spain used it for 1000 years (under different names) and was also carried to America.
They also left a good number of churches and other buildings while ruling Spain for 300 years. For a rural bunch it was good.
Gothenburg is a mistranslation, but perhaps a deliberate one as Swedish rulers and nobles loved exaggerating the connection to the old Goths. Geatenburg would make more sense as göte = geat.
Gotland, however, could be accurately translated as Gothland given that the Old Norse didn't distinguish between Gutes and Goths and got does mean Goth in modern Swedish.
>I know that goths descend from the Getae
They didn't, Jordanes made up a bunch of bullshit to glorify Gothic history. The Getae were Dacians so they weren't even Germanic.
Getae = Serb
Swedes don’t speak eastern Germanic, no one does. It is extinct. Northern Germanic languages are more related to western Germanic languages than eastern.
>Northern Germanic languages are more related to western Germanic languages than eastern.
Well yeah. The only preserved Eastern Germanic language is also the most archaic preserved version of a Germanic language, and at that point it's speakers had already migrated far away from their North and West Germanic brothers. However, Old Gutnish had clear similarities with Gothic so it isn't unreasonable to think that they were once part of the same group as you can switch groups, like Low Saxon/Low German that was once in the Anglo-Frisian group, but is today closer to Dutch and High German.
I got into studying the Gothic cuktures and languages from JRRTolkein. Funny enough, he learned what Gothic he could and even wrote a bit with it or in it.
It’s a real shame history loses stuff over the ages. I wish I could just get lost all day in Wikipedia reading endless detailed accounts of gothic shit.
Are there any gothic ruins alive today? Did they ever build anything of worth and lasting? Anywhere from Iberia to the Caucuses? And speaking of Iberia, what are the chances some backwater village in Ukraine or Russia or somewhere East like that has like 100 people who keep some kind of Gothic tradition going?
When the dust settles on Crimea I would like to go see Mangup. It's a ruined city in Crimea, there are ruins there with pre-Norse symbolism as well as ruins from others times and cultures. It was also one of the last holdouts of Eastern Roman culture. I've heard it's fascinating to see.
Theodoric built some stuff in Ravenna, but I guess the design of it is alot more Roman than Gothic. And if you want to read something more indepth than wikipedia articles, I would reccommend Peter Heather.
In Spain there are like 100 visigothic churches in rural areas. They are in villages where only 100-200 people live now. They were a rural group so they did not care about building massive architec
Just google images: "iglesia visigoda", "arte mozarabe" or "tesoro guarrazar"
In Northern Portugal and Spain there's tons os Suebi/Visigothic churches
East Germanic was less mutated from Proto-Germanic, meaning it didn't change constantly but remained rigid. The Goths and Burgundians also tended to not genocide the people they ruled. The Franks also didn't genocide so Frankish also died out. Just some patterns I've noticed.
>The Franks also didn't genocide so Frankish also died out.
Frankish is still spoken in the form of Dutch
>East Germanic was less mutated from Proto-Germanic
Of course it was, all other Germanic languages are only properly attested several centuries after the Gothic Bible was written, i.e. they had more time to change, so there's no reason to assume that East Germanic languages were more conservative. On the contrary, the fragments we have of Crimean Gothic are often fairly different from the old Gothic words.
The goths were retarded and a pest
Don´t project yourself, Roman soldier.
Get off my lawn nagger
Sleep tight goth pride
Thats moors from the 17/18/19 century
>berbers/arabs from the early middle ages having curved swords
Stay mad emo
The Goths believed in trans right and were multiracial.
He's talking about Visigoths and etc not mall goths fren
Sometimes I fantasize about being some degenerate pagan landholder patrician in the late antique gaul countryside out in nowhere and spending my days with little else but burying my head in all the interesting shit that won't be preserved centuries later and fucking my big tiddy goth harem that I bought as many of as I can reasonably provide for.
Similar feel but perhaps a genetic memory of sorts, I see myself as a Gothic Iberian BVLL freely and consensually creampie'ing Med PAWGs in-between hunting trips, fishing, duels and various other adventures.
>tfw you will never be a Hispano-Roman nobleman with a goth harem
WHY FUCKING LIVE!!?
Goths were everywhere at some point. Why aren't there more blond people in southern Europe. What happened?
Certainly Alaric did what Attila never could.
That said, the Visigoths were a greater nightmare than any other invading barbarian people.
>what Attila never could.
Didnt the Pope ride out to Atilla and kindly ask him not to sack Rome? I don’t think it was a matter of if Atilla could, I think it was more he decided against it.