Give me one logical argument against the Spartan model of governance that doesn't just boil down "no you can't just enslave Helots, tha...

Give me one logical argument against the Spartan model of governance that doesn't just boil down "no you can't just enslave Helots, that is mean, what if you were the Helot!"

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  1. 2 years ago
    Anonymous

    Dunno u end up a matriarchy I guess

  2. 2 years ago
    Anonymous

    >Give me one logical argument against the Spartan model of governance
    You’d be a helot

  3. 2 years ago
    Anonymous

    it ended up creating a downward spiral were they ended up with an increasingly smaller population for military service which along with giving matriarchs massive power led to them becoming increasingly irrelevant to the point they became a shadow of their former selves ot the point the Romans just turned them the antiquity version of a amusment park

    • 2 years ago
      Anonymous

      to be fair it's not like any of the other poleis overcame that issue either. The Spartiate decline was unique and in earlier periods it wouldn't have lost to the Achaean League, but everyone in the region struggled to exert any power beyond their immediate vicinity after Alexander.

      • 2 years ago
        Anonymous

        even then the other city states had a more graceful fall, not helped by the fact Thebes pretty much proved you didn't need to train your kids since birth to fight, that and Spartans entire system prevented any chance of passing needed reforms which is ultimately what killed them in the end

  4. 2 years ago
    Anonymous

    You'd be the helot because the demiurge likes irony.,

  5. 2 years ago
    Anonymous

    Myke Cole, "The Bronze Lie" has lots of logical arguments.
    The technology lagged behind the rest of the world (because lol let's just use helots); the breeding-stock got less and less as the spartiates died off; everyone else hated them.
    And the government didn't win as many wars as they claimed they'd won. They got buck broken by literal homosexuals from Thebes.

    Also you'll be the helot.

    • 2 years ago
      Anonymous

      The literally forced their citizens to be dedicated to war and only war, and forbade them from engaging in art or learning any kind of craft. Also, it turns into a gynocracy, because only the women are around to do the actual ruling.

      To be fair, getting reamed by the Sacred Band didn't mean you were bad at war. The Sacred Band was absurdly deadly.

      Frick human dignity its just stupid.
      >let's spend all our energy and time keeping slaves instead of spending it developing our civilization
      >hurr we're so superior

      Anyone that thinks we need to opress people or deprive people of resources to survive is projecting their own stupidty to the entire race. You're the weak link. The rest of us will figure out how to do things not like morons because we're smart enough to depend on exploiting machines over living beings because we're not fricking animals.

      Every other Greek city state heavily exploited slave labor. And they were incredibly technologically and culturally progressive. So it's not so much slavery that held the Spartans back, but excessive dedication to tradition.

    • 2 years ago
      Anonymous

      >by literal homosexuals from Thebes.
      They were exceptionally strong.

  6. 2 years ago
    Anonymous

    Collapses on itself

  7. 2 years ago
    Anonymous

    If the army is defeated too much, you have no citizens left, which inevitably leads to slave revolts and other members if your society taking over. It literally happened to them and got BTFO so hard they never recovered and became a meme. How is this even a question

    • 2 years ago
      Anonymous

      helots made up the vast majority of the Spartan army. Spartan citizens just made up an elite core. of it.

  8. 2 years ago
    Anonymous

    Aristotle did a decent job of criticizing it.

  9. 2 years ago
    Anonymous

    well, they were incompetent rulers that got run over by any vaguely organized army and constantly depended on former enemies to exist. They were everyone's b***hes.

    • 2 years ago
      Anonymous

      Why were they so bad at war?

  10. 2 years ago
    Anonymous

    Sparta was basically Roman Disneyland at one point, half the shit about them is exaggerated for the macho tourist

  11. 2 years ago
    Anonymous

    their soldiers didn't outperform other citizen-soldiers who actually did something with their lives when not fighting

  12. 2 years ago
    Anonymous

    >1) What makes you think you'd be le ebin muscular Spartiate? You'd be some browbeaten malnourished Helot who got murdered by a Spartan teenager as part of his education.
    >2) Read up on the 'Spartan Heiresses', the Spartan kings were completely dependent on them.
    >3) Sparta wasn't some epic Conan tier warrior hero kingdom, they spent most of their time terrified that the Helots were going to rise up and overthrow
    >4) They weren't even that impressive on the battlefield, regularly getting beaten by other cities soldiers - the only reason they militarised as much as they did was to control the Helots (see 3)
    >5) I promise you that you're not nearly gay enough to be a Spartan.
    If you want to watch gay porn there's better examples out there than 300.

  13. 2 years ago
    Anonymous

    Spartans spent most of their existence putting down helot revolts and were very reluctant to leave Laconia for long periods of time on fear of being unable to put down helot revolts. No nation can truly excel when it's that held back by fear of revolt.

  14. 2 years ago
    Anonymous

    Ethnic expansion is vastly superior.

  15. 2 years ago
    Anonymous

    First of all humans have an intrinsic human dignity. As they have this intrinsic human dignity, slavery is wrong. This is why the new world order is wrong in their attempts to enslave mankind. This is also why the North was right in freeing the slaves. This makes sense if you think about it.

    • 2 years ago
      Anonymous

      Frick human dignity its just stupid.
      >let's spend all our energy and time keeping slaves instead of spending it developing our civilization
      >hurr we're so superior

      Anyone that thinks we need to opress people or deprive people of resources to survive is projecting their own stupidty to the entire race. You're the weak link. The rest of us will figure out how to do things not like morons because we're smart enough to depend on exploiting machines over living beings because we're not fricking animals.

  16. 2 years ago
    Anonymous

    They lost.

  17. 2 years ago
    Anonymous

    no you can't just enslave Helots, that is mean, what if you were the Helot!
    You are the helot bastard

  18. 2 years ago
    Anonymous

    Because it didn't work, after all. The Helots had the last word.

  19. 2 years ago
    Anonymous

    >SHIT IT'S A TRAPS!

  20. 2 years ago
    Anonymous

    Why is Sparta in the wrong place on the map?

  21. 2 years ago
    Anonymous

    Spartan women used to wrestle each other naked, we need to bring this practice back. Not for dudes though that's just gay.

  22. 2 years ago
    Anonymous

    I can't

  23. 2 years ago
    Anonymous

    Athens won

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