Quick rundown: >Spring 2014 >Two college students from the Netherlands, Kris and Lisanne, travel to Panama >They leave their host family's home one morning to go for a hike >Bring with them a dog belonging to owners of a local restaurant >Told no one where they're going >Later that night >The dog returns home but the girls are nowhere to be found >Host family is alarmed and calls the police >Cops ignore the situation and do nothing until Dutch cops arrive 4 days later to assist >Search begins but no one knows where they went and the area is a mountainous rainforest
>Fast forward more than 2 months >Local woman finds a backpack by the river, strangely dry and undamaged >Backpack belonged to the girls, contains Lisanne's passport, her camera and both of their phones >Phone usage records are pulled by police >For the first 2 days starting 5 hours into the hike, both phones used intermittently to attempt to call emergency, with no success due to bad reception >After 4 days, only one phone has battery left and stays on for another week >During that time, many attempts to enter the PIN were made but none correct >Camera found to contain about a dozen pics taken during the first day by the girls and 90 pictures taken during a single night 7 days after the girls left >All except 3 of the night pictures are pure black >One shows the back of Kris' head >Pic related was the last one taken >Filenames indicate that between the last daytime image and the first nighttime image, one more image existed but was deleted
>Search continues along the river >A boot found with a foot still in it >Numerous scattered bones are found kilometers apart >Some appear bleached and inconsistent with natural decomposition >No scratches or bite marks detected >DNA analysis confirms the bones belong to the girls >Kris' pelvis found snapped in half
interesting.
the info from the camera and cell phone usage sure does make you wonder.
the back pack being found relatively clean and not wet, with their belongings packed neatly inside is particularly suspicious.
the circumstances of the back pack being placed/found/returned as it was has all the attributes of simply being a "Bag of personal effects" of the dead. it seems creepy and suspicious
Stupid is as stupid does. I don't really fucking care. Whatever fuckwits were dumb enough to mate, shat out those two fuckwits. Zombie NPC europeans, maybe more accurately labelled 'city-state dwellers', as occasionally ameridiots, and others, raised around metro decay cities, completely abstract from Nature, will do similar stupidity.
That is exactly what eugenics, proper breeding and raising, was against. Unfortunately with the social spoon, it just breeds more of those kind of dysgenic retards.
>>Cops ignore the situation and do nothing until Dutch cops arrive 4 days later to assist
Fucking why
Do you think they could have been rescued if the police started looking for them immediately?
Some local browns raped and murdered them, then tried to clean up the evidence. That's what happened. Some retarded white women got themselves killed because they thought they were too good for bad things to happen to them, that the world is a naturally good place and people are the same everywhere. They paid the price, they died horrifically, and now they've been reduced to a murder mystery for online dweebs to ponder and debate over, while intentionally ignoring the most obvious cause of their death. It was just a bunch of dumb, horny, violent locals. Case closed.
White women are more captivating to people because they're genuinely much easier to have sympathy for due to them being the most attractive women with a golden retriever-esque outlook on the world. It's always genuinely tragic, like a precocious child being cut down in their youth. A precious resource gone to waste.
>Police coverups
Dumb brown cops didn't want an international incident >Murder of the local suspects
Dumb brown cops didn't want an international incident >The weird night photos.
Dumb brown murderers playing with their stuff after they got done raping and murdering them
Well spoken
It was also too probably sex trafficking but basically the same deal
I believe this too. The suspects probably went back to take the photos to throw off the scent. I believe in a lot of paranormal but theres also a lot of fucked up humans out there especially in 3rd world countries where white women are seen as a commodity
>The suspects probably went back to take the photos to throw off the scent
They went back to a place far away (the plants are different from where they started the hike), at 3am to take wird ass pictures not showing anything else but a creek or cave? No way
Did they also go back to the spot one more time 3 days later just to turn on Kris' phone, turn it right back off again and leave? Because that's pretty stupid and no one would do that, but if you were correct, this is the only thing that could have happened. So it's more likely that you're wrong instead.
>t. retard who doesn't know anything about the case
Some local browns raped and murdered them, then tried to clean up the evidence. That's what happened. Some retarded white women got themselves killed because they thought they were too good for bad things to happen to them, that the world is a naturally good place and people are the same everywhere. They paid the price, they died horrifically, and now they've been reduced to a murder mystery for online dweebs to ponder and debate over, while intentionally ignoring the most obvious cause of their death. It was just a bunch of dumb, horny, violent locals. Case closed.
Explain all the police cover ups, the murders of local suspects, the weird night photos. There's nothing clear about this
>Police coverups
Dumb brown cops didn't want an international incident >Murder of the local suspects
Dumb brown cops didn't want an international incident >The weird night photos.
Dumb brown murderers playing with their stuff after they got done raping and murdering them
Are you telling me they knew how to fake phone calls, completely erase only one photo from the camera, modify the other pics, create an enormous pile of contradictory proofs, but they didn't figure out that doing so they would have focused the attention on their cartel infested shithole? I'm not buying it, sorry
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
Yeah, that's exactly what I'm telling you. The steps people take to cover up their tracks often times make them more obvious. This behavior is exactly what gets criminals caught in less shitty countries. They don't think to themselves >Will attempting to cover all of this up make me look more suspicious?
They think >I have to cover this up right fucking now
So yeah, they failed. That seems obvious to someone like you or I in hindsight, that trying to do what they did would fail, but that's not obvious to a stupid brown.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
NTA but it is obvious you don't know the case well. There is no straightforward explanation. They were murdered but the how and when and all the conflicting pieces of evidence are what make this case exceptionally interesting. There's lots of fault put on the local police but the Dutch authorities also committed quite a few fuck ups, including the parents of the girls refusing to work with local private detectives who are basically the equicalent of private health care vs public (Boquete PD). I get that you might not be interested but your insistence on shitting up the thread is annoying.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
None of what you just said contradicts anything I said.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
okay retarded shill
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
>be murderer >kill and dismember two women >decide to cover it up >by leaving a backpack their belongings practically untouched and in a safe spot for the authorities to find
Brainlet take, fuck off this thread already, like
NTA but it is obvious you don't know the case well. There is no straightforward explanation. They were murdered but the how and when and all the conflicting pieces of evidence are what make this case exceptionally interesting. There's lots of fault put on the local police but the Dutch authorities also committed quite a few fuck ups, including the parents of the girls refusing to work with local private detectives who are basically the equicalent of private health care vs public (Boquete PD). I get that you might not be interested but your insistence on shitting up the thread is annoying.
said you're more annoying than a Redditor or a Twitter shill.
Do you need me to reiterate? Is there some mystical universal force that would prevent people who are familiar the with the terrain and literally live in the middle of the rainforest from being in the middle of the rainforest? I genuinely cannot believe I'm getting resistance on this. What do you want to have happened? A rainforest Sasquatch killed them and took photos? Or do you not want an explanation, do you want a big fat "I don't know" so you can continue to theorize about it ad infinitum? It's extremely obvious what happened here. It's happened to plenty of tourists just like them.
>vastly underestimates difficult terrain for local civilians
there are maybe three dozen people who know the woods THAT well and the police aren't doing their jobs because >muh racism
and international police aren't getting anywhere because >muh racism
fat fucking chance dude this was illuminati werewolves
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
>there are maybe three dozen people who know the woods THAT well
Conjecture. Somebody doesn't really even need to know the woods to be out in the middle of them. I understand your point, but this is a big problem I see with internet people trying to solve mysteries in general. The presumption of expertise and rationality. (You) could kill someone in the rainforest in the middle of the night without being great at navigating the rainforest just as easily as (You) could kill someone in the woods in the middle of the night without being great at navigating the woods. You just have a general familiarity with the terrain you live around, and that's more than enough to traverse it in most cases, especially in the short term. It's not all or nothing with these sorts of things, they don't need to have been killed by survival experts who live specifically in the rainforest. You can just walk into the woods. And keep walking. Then walk back. >and international police aren't getting anywhere because muh racism
No, just because the local police are half uncooperative and half retarded. >illuminati werewolves
Obviously
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
>You just have a general familiarity with the terrain you live around, and that's more than enough to traverse it in most cases,
this is always considering every backwoods redneck as a bear grills rainforest traveller's, right?
even guerrillas fighting the government in the woods get lost in there dumbshit
>they said there were only 3 night pictures and the rest were pitch black >family confirmed >now it's proven the opposite
Explain why family and dutch detectives hide proof then
Also, why panamanian cops put all that effort in messing up with the camera when they could have easily made it disappear with all the backpack instead of finding it. >inb4 retarded browns
Yeah, that's ok, but this is not a retard modus operandi, looks like some schizo serial killer trying to pull a Zodiac with detectives
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
Stupidity and technical know-how are not mutually exclusive. Again, another issue with guys like you, is the assumption that because someone is skilled at a very specific thing means that they're generally competent and would demonstrate perfectly intelligent behavior in a vacuum. Think about how many stupid Indian guys try to scam people online. They're genuinely pretty good with tech, but are generally very stupid people otherwise. Do not assume that someone is a genius just because they're capable of something the average person isn't.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
Here it's not about being stupid, but putting a lot of effort into something completely useless. It's not like they tried to cover traces doing a sloppy job, but they created a whole structure of non sequitur (which needs to be thought of, and it's quite creative in this case). If their only reason was cover some jungle dweller rapists (allegedly three, who died in weird circunstamces right after) it's pretty surprising at least
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
I think jaded anon is right, because at first there was no proofs of their deaths but when the Dutch police and the parents got involved, whoever did this threw them a bone, literally, so they would stop looking.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
There was no proof of death until Dutchies got involved because there was literally no investigation until Dutchies got involved. Chances are if you die in a jungle no one will ever find your remains if no one ever comes looking for you specifically. Shocking huh? Yeah I know.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
That doesn't contradict what you were replying to.
>didn't want an international incident
Some anon that claimed to be from there said there were cannibalistic tribes that the local government didn't want anyone to know about and it was likely a coverup to keep that a secret. But I don't know, would a couple white female tourists really be appealing to them?
>want to keep secret inside forest >not closing the case by finding some bones in the river >build up a shit ton of fake proof and weird things to create a real life creepypasta
Again, shit cover up job. And by shit I mean out of reality level of shittiness, not even explainable with brown skin
>t. retard who doesn't know anything about the case
Talking about yourself, normie?
White women are more captivating to people because they're genuinely much easier to have sympathy for due to them being the most attractive women with a golden retriever-esque outlook on the world. It's always genuinely tragic, like a precocious child being cut down in their youth. A precious resource gone to waste.
I am an Amerimutt I just have no delusions about how stupid white women are and why people care so much when they die. They're self destructively altruistic. Which makes them get into situations where they get murdered, a lot. It's their own fault for assuming the best in others.
White women are more captivating to people because they're genuinely much easier to have sympathy for due to them being the most attractive women with a golden retriever-esque outlook on the world. It's always genuinely tragic, like a precocious child being cut down in their youth. A precious resource gone to waste.
>Someone else that was in the pic?
Exactly this. There's speculation about three local guys being with them. Picrel is an unsourced very low res photo (said to come from the phone of one of them). The river location was later recognised. All those guys died shortly after the case in weird circumstances (the phone owner drowned in the same river after 4 days ). The problem is: why photoshop every pic instead of erasing everything like theuly did to photo #509? Why not discarding the whole camera into the river, or finding only some pieces of it?
To do that it's enough to find their bones down a creek or something, you're all underestimating the ridiculous effort put into messing up with those photos (not mentioning they had the opposite effect)
>the ridiculous effort put into
yeah, seems like they were trying really hard to keep from incriminating someone to the point of fabricating poorly done evidence that the girls were alone.
They probably got kidnapped and raped and killed.
Stupid for young girls to travel alone.
This shit happens in big cities all the time as well, and foreign woman are often targeted.
Yes you dumbfuck you're only the the 6 gorillionth anon ITT to say this exact thing. If it's so clear to you what happened here, then explain the nighttime pics taken 1 week later, the photoshopping and tampering, the partly bleached bones, the failed SIM unlocking attempts, the change in mood in the last daytime pics, the weird timing of the 911 calls. And unlike the previous idiot try to explain it without using the words "retarded" and "brown".
OP thinks this is some paranormal happenings.
Most of the thread thinks it just rape and murder.
It doesn't necessarily have to be paranormal but it sure as shit is not just your typical rape and murder. What makes this case unlike any other is the sheer number of incongruent, unexplainable pieces of evidence.
>What makes this case unlike any other is the sheer number of incongruent, unexplainable pieces of evidence.
Yeah people are motivated to cover shit up to protect reputations, and bribes, and shit like that.
>try to explain it without using the words "retarded" and "brown".
Low IQ male individuals of the rape capital of south america decided to rape and murder two white girls that were traveling alone.
The criminals may have been connected to organized drug crime, or they may have just been local thugs.
Fun Fact: I went to Colombia before and there was a rape case of a white woman on the beach, which the locals blamed on non-Colombian south americans who were traveling through the area (ie probably drug trafficking thugs). Shit like this happens all the fucking time, but gets covered up, because everyone wants those tourist shekels.
>nightime pics
Phones do this all the time when stored in a pocket or a backpack and accidently get turned on.
>photoshopping and tampering
A local police tampering the evidence in order to cover up the case. Possibly due to a bribe, or maybe to protect Panama's reputation for tourists.
>bleached bones
Trying to hide the body
>change in mood in the last daytime pics
Those young locals they were swimming with were probably the ones who decided to rape and murder them.
>weird timing of the 911 calls.
They were kept alive for several days before being killed, and one of them had hidden her phone or some shit.
>Phones do this all the time when stored in a pocket or a backpack and accidently get turned on.
This was a digital camera, not a phone, the year was 2014. I'm sure I don't need to tell you that digital cameras have physical buttons you need to push to take pictures and those really don't go off randomly. >A local police tampering the evidence in order to cover up the case.
If the cops did this, why the fuck would they take the camera back to the jungle and leave it there in a backpack for someone to find? >Trying to hide the body
Why only one and not the other? >Those young locals they were swimming with were probably the ones who decided to rape and murder them.
That explains absolutely nothing, it's just you restating something irrelevant that you've already said a million times. >one of them had hidden her phone or some shit.
Yeah, just about sums up the deep 200 IQ thought you put into explaining this case.
Why are you even posting itt if you don't care about what really happened and you're so content with your "retarded browns" theory that fails to explain 90% of the evidence about what happened?
>you're so content with your "retarded browns" theory that fails to explain 90% of the evidence about what happened?
What more do you want to know?
Either they got raped and murdered,
or they got lost in the woods and animals killed them.
But that photos were apparently tampered with, means it is almost certainly a case of rape and murder.
>I'm sure I don't need to tell you that digital cameras have physical buttons you need to push to take pictures and those really don't go off randomly.
OK boomer.
Well why don't you fill us in with what you think happened? Why is this case of rape and murder so exceptional to you?
>Well why don't you fill us in with what you think happened
I don't know what happened. No one knows, you certainly don't. That's why this thread exists, so we can discuss it and maybe come up with some plausible new ideas. The problem is that your retarded brown rapist theory is fucking stupid because it just flat out ignores just about every known detail that makes this case strange and difficult to explain, so it's completely worthless. The fact that you yourself don't realize what's unusual about this case further proves that you haven't even read the story and thus are full of shit, but if you want a brief list of some of the strange details, see
https://i.imgur.com/ElKOgaR.jpg
Yes you dumbfuck you're only the the 6 gorillionth anon ITT to say this exact thing. If it's so clear to you what happened here, then explain the nighttime pics taken 1 week later, the photoshopping and tampering, the partly bleached bones, the failed SIM unlocking attempts, the change in mood in the last daytime pics, the weird timing of the 911 calls. And unlike the previous idiot try to explain it without using the words "retarded" and "brown".
[...]
It doesn't necessarily have to be paranormal but it sure as shit is not just your typical rape and murder. What makes this case unlike any other is the sheer number of incongruent, unexplainable pieces of evidence.
.
The fact that you've already posted numerous times ITT and you still know nothing about what's being discussed makes me think you're just trolling, to be real with you my nagger.
Because it happens all the time to white girls who travel by themselves to 3rd world shitholes. Not every country is full of feminist who respect women and think theyre equal to men. In a lot of those countries rape is commonplace
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
>Because it happens all the time to white girls who travel by themselves to 3rd world shitholes.
You fucking dumbos keep repeating this while not realising it's the exact reason why this is a special case. Why in the other 1000000 cases of women missing nobody gives a shit after some time but here we are after 10 years discussing a (for you) totally normal event? Because everything in it is fucking strange. Nobody is denying stupid tourists pay the toll, nobody is pushing feminist propaganda here. So please, stop being obnoxious and focus on this particular case or fuck off to your favourite blacked thread
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
its obvious by your reaction to it that you live in the area or a similar place and fit this description, try toning it down and acting civiliz- never mind.
not him but been following this case for years >explain the nighttime pics taken 1 week later
one was dying from the fall crossing the rope bridge and the other was delirious from starvation/exposure after refusing to leave her side, tried to use the flash to track a noise in the night >the photoshopping and tampering
509 deleted by the girls themselves (probably lewds) before the real trouble started (or possibly after, embarrassment is a helluva drug even when facing death) and photo shopping is basically based on 'trust me bro i can tell from the pixels" >the partly bleached bones
combination of high PH river water and bones being washed out down a pebble floor river over the course of weeks then baking in the sun once they came to a stop >the failed SIM unlocking attempts
obviously she didn't know the password to her companions phone, she had the OS pin but neither of them considered sharing the sim password for outbound calls >the change in mood in the last daytime pics
"we are lost" "its your fault" "you said go this way" etc any other minor disagreement is possible between two stressed out young women >the weird timing of the 911 calls
not sure whats weird about it, they tried multiple times and probably had little to no understanding of how cell phone signals work
To preempt your next likely questions: >why was the backpack found neat and tidy
obviously whoever found it wanted to sell the shit inside before they realized what it was and quietly repacked it before turning it in >why did the three boys in the lake picture die
anon, it's the third world, no explanation required
In the end foul play of course is possible. It's also possible they died like many others who go missing in the wild, an unfortunate culmination of many small mistakes and unlucky occurrences combined with an initial naive sense of invincibility caused by their sheltered upbringing and resultant hubris (see death valley germans, bill ewasko etc).
>509 deleted by the girls themselves (probably lewds) before the real trouble started (or possibly after, embarrassment is a helluva drug even when facing death)
Kek, that file could be deleted only from a PC, and it was canceled after the night pics were taken. Various experts tested the same camera model and it's been proven you can't completely erase a pic from the device, and that if you take a pic after the one you delete the numerical succession continues as it never existed. >and photo shopping is basically based on 'trust me bro i can tell from the pixels"
Yeah, explain picrel then genius
Her hair matches well, the angle is the same, but the reason you wash out the larger picture Toni, is that you know the individual strands don't line up.
Even so, I'm betting it was lewds and either the girls deleted it and the 'experts' were retards or the experts themselves deleted it as it contained nothing pertinent to the investigation and was embarrassing (nips)
You notice how the daytime pictures get weird, the girls stop laughing and smiling and the mood and photography itself gets creepy? 509 was taken *after* all that. What's more, we don't know when it was taken. Could've been day 1, could've been day 8. If it was a nude pic, it could've been a nude pic someone took of Kris on day 6 after he killed her, or it could've been a million other things too.
Better yet, check out the lighting in the neck/clavicle area. The cut is hard as fuck, it doesn't look like any pixel I've ever seen lol
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
Yeah, it's pretty bad. I know this is schizo, but this is the neck and shoulder. Look at the black strap and how it goes completely flat. Then it becomes really jagged and starts spking inwards and outwards.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
That's just regular pixelation from a shitty camera. Source: I existed before HD displays
Theres definitely some weird photoshop going on here. Look at her chest zoomed in. Theres a line between her upper left shoulderblade down to her shirt where you can tell theres an edit. Who would take their time to edit something like that and why
Yeah apparently it's cropped from a normal picture and doesn't belong with the night pics
https://i.imgur.com/s0IAIJv.jpg
Alright another try >they're with brown dudes related to local mafia >at some point a guy is holding the camera >first girl gets kidnapped while the second girl is ahead and not looking >last picture of girl looking worried is taken by guy >both girls are sent to rape shed in the jungle nearby >somehow they managed to keep a hold of their phones >during guard shifts or lunches they discreetly try to call 911 >after a few days, dudes find out about phones, kill one girl >second girl freaks out hard and plans her escape >when stench becomes awful they get rid of first body chemically after fucking it for a couple days >girl escapes with camera left around by guys >she snatches a pic of the rape shed >she falls down a cliff and breaks half her bones >goes insane in the dark from the jungle noise, flashes away imaginary monster >they eventually find her >because of her broken bones they get rid of her on the spot hastily >mafia ask police what to do >keep in mind everyone is panicky and uneducated >at this point they really think they will get caught >they decide to make it look as weird and confusing as possible >police uses the town's only computer to completely delete rape shed pic >guys involved are killed off
a few days, dudes find out about phones, kill one girl
I would say they killed her or separated her from the friend, not discovered the phones
of her broken bones they get rid of her on the spot hastily
Still not clear how they cut her foot and why it was still intact
uses the town's only computer to completely delete rape shed pic
The problem is they not only deleted that pic, but also cropped and modified the others
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
>I would say they killed her or separated her from the friend, not discovered the phones
That actually makes more sense yes >Still not clear how they cut her foot and why it was still intact
By this point there are two types of body parts, for two girls
First girl they killed on mafia ground they could simply dissolve in caustic weld the good old fashioned way, they threw the remains to stop the investigation.
Second girl they had to chop off on the spot where she fell, threw body parts down the river. >problem is they not only deleted that pic, but also cropped and modified the others
Once again you guys are just not used to how shitty pictures used to be compared to today.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
>Second girl they had to chop off on the spot where she fell, threw body parts down the river.
On her bones there are no signs compatible with being in the river. Also the foot was found inside a shoe still intact and without signs of violent chopping either >Once again you guys are just not used to how shitty pictures used to be compared to today
I'm talking about the night head pic, that was 100% cropped according with investigators. Also there are some data anomalies in the other ones (daytime pics like the one with the weird breast proportions)
>509 deleted by the girls themselves
509 wasn't just deleted, it was erased completely and unrecoverable from the filesystem. There are entire academic fields dedicated to restoring deleted camera pictures and other shit like that, and unless the Dutch cops lied, someone made damn sure 509 could never be recovered. It certainly wasn't the girls who did it.
The photoshopping of the daytime pics is something I didn't know about at first but it doesn't seem completely implausible. Some of the pics do look really weird and not just because of bad image quality. >"we are lost" "its your fault" "you said go this way"
If they were lost and worried about it I'm not sure they'd willingly be taking more pics, especially when they couldn't even bring themselves to pose nicely and smile for the pics, but I guess it's possible. Just seems weird. >911 call timing
They called only a few times each day at similar times, never tried to call at night, never tried to send an SMS which could actually have worked out for them and they had been texting their family a lot prior.
I do think it's very possible there was no violent crime involved and they simply got lost and died of exposure and injuries. But I don't think it explains some things like the nighttime pics. Using the flash to track a noise for 3 hours? Taking a picture of Kris' head (who was almost certainly dead by then) among other things?
>Using the flash to track a noise for 3 hours?
It's a proven fact that if you light a flash in pitch black night you go temporarily blind. I could understand one try, not 3h of same place photoshoot. Also the photos are mostly in focus and taken by a firm hand >Taking a picture of Kris' head (who was almost certainly dead by then) among other things?
I'm not so sure about that anymore after seeing this
https://i.imgur.com/ljgfHXt.jpg
>509 deleted by the girls themselves (probably lewds) before the real trouble started (or possibly after, embarrassment is a helluva drug even when facing death)
Kek, that file could be deleted only from a PC, and it was canceled after the night pics were taken. Various experts tested the same camera model and it's been proven you can't completely erase a pic from the device, and that if you take a pic after the one you delete the numerical succession continues as it never existed. >and photo shopping is basically based on 'trust me bro i can tell from the pixels"
Yeah, explain picrel then genius
>I'm not so sure about that anymore after seeing this
https://i.imgur.com/ljgfHXt.jpg
>509 deleted by the girls themselves (probably lewds) before the real trouble started (or possibly after, embarrassment is a helluva drug even when facing death)
Kek, that file could be deleted only from a PC, and it was canceled after the night pics were taken. Various experts tested the same camera model and it's been proven you can't completely erase a pic from the device, and that if you take a pic after the one you delete the numerical succession continues as it never existed. >and photo shopping is basically based on 'trust me bro i can tell from the pixels"
Yeah, explain picrel then genius
Yeah I've thought about this too, it's pretty strange. Assuming it's really an edit, someone would still have had to crop that image and shuffle it among the others. Why? To create the impression Kris and Lisanne were together at the time the picture appeared to be "taken"? You can't even tell if she's alive or dead from the crop.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
>Why? To create the impression Kris and Lisanne were together at the time the picture appeared to be "taken"?
That's what I find really weird. No cop on earth would put all this effort to get a really obvious fake. >You can't even tell if she's alive or dead from the crop.
Yeah, the night pictures in general are taken to avoid any body part or personal effect showing in them. Idk if intentionally or not.
I've read a theory about them being captured by someone and then left severely injured into a dump on the 8th night. That could explain the weird pattern of the night photos depicting the same place from the same pov (picrel)
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
I would assume that a killer in the woods would find that their being in the woods was cover enough. I mean, if you're retarded enough to embroil yourself in the disappearance of multiple people, I doubt you would put so much effort into creating what is essentially an unreliable alibi
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
That's what I think too, all this effort in messing up the proofs seems more a serial killer modus operandi to fuck with the police, but it's even more unlikely
https://i.imgur.com/vGVeoqz.jpg
>trust me bro i can tell from the pixels
lul
>post pic unrelated to obvious manipulation of the night pic with the hair >gotcha!!!
Several photos appear to be modified according to data analysis, not just muh pixels
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
He said photoshopping is basically based on >trust me bro i can tell from the pixels
That image is clearly modified based on non retardation.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
Ok, my bad not noticing
https://i.imgur.com/vGVeoqz.jpg
>trust me bro i can tell from the pixels
lul
was referring to
not him but been following this case for years >explain the nighttime pics taken 1 week later
one was dying from the fall crossing the rope bridge and the other was delirious from starvation/exposure after refusing to leave her side, tried to use the flash to track a noise in the night >the photoshopping and tampering
509 deleted by the girls themselves (probably lewds) before the real trouble started (or possibly after, embarrassment is a helluva drug even when facing death) and photo shopping is basically based on 'trust me bro i can tell from the pixels" >the partly bleached bones
combination of high PH river water and bones being washed out down a pebble floor river over the course of weeks then baking in the sun once they came to a stop >the failed SIM unlocking attempts
obviously she didn't know the password to her companions phone, she had the OS pin but neither of them considered sharing the sim password for outbound calls >the change in mood in the last daytime pics
"we are lost" "its your fault" "you said go this way" etc any other minor disagreement is possible between two stressed out young women >the weird timing of the 911 calls
not sure whats weird about it, they tried multiple times and probably had little to no understanding of how cell phone signals work
To preempt your next likely questions: >why was the backpack found neat and tidy
obviously whoever found it wanted to sell the shit inside before they realized what it was and quietly repacked it before turning it in >why did the three boys in the lake picture die
anon, it's the third world, no explanation required
In the end foul play of course is possible. It's also possible they died like many others who go missing in the wild, an unfortunate culmination of many small mistakes and unlucky occurrences combined with an initial naive sense of invincibility caused by their sheltered upbringing and resultant hubris (see death valley germans, bill ewasko etc).
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
Higher res of the collage? Looks schizo at this resolution.
I'm going to give my two cents, and I hope you guys give more theories on what happen instead of just talking about the cover up, which is a given.
First, the cover up was done most likely to keep tourist coming to the place. If people know that there are bands of rapist in the jungle, boom, no turism, no money. Better make it seem like some outlandish case with conflicting evidence.
Now, the other theory that I remember. The girls were being guided by a dog from a local family as far as I recall. It's very possible that the dog went inside the woods and the girls frantically searched for it fearing losing the dog and having to confront the family later. Due to this they went deep into the forest, where they got lost. The dog actually came back alone, and the girls:
A) Got found by some guys and used as cock sleeves until they got bored and killed them
B) Succumbed to the elements
There was supposedly a big rope made of metal I think that people use to get to the other side of some place inside that area. Some people speculate that these girls tried to get across during bad weather, one fell down and injured herself, or downright died. The other one was using her cellphone to illuminate the place in search for her friend. Once again, she could have been found by some local rapists and the same result.
Another, more simple explanation, is that they didn't knew the terrain very well and one of them fell downhill on some steep place and injured herself or died. Same development as the last paragraph after the other girl was trying to locate her lost friend.
I'm not denying that browns could have killed them. But simply saying "browns did it" explains NOTHING and is borderline off topic because the point of this thread is to explain the anomalies of the case, which are conveniently ignored by every retard spamming "browns did it".
Even then it's just one theory out of many. I think it's more likely that they got lost and died of injuries and exposure.
Op here, I'm not thinking of anything in particular, just pointing out that this is a weird ass cold case which is still a mistery after 10 years. Saying "hurr durr it's le brown retarded rapists" doesn't explain how the fuck they did it. All those retards ITT don't know anything about this and are just repeating cringe memes. They don't understand the point.
It's a restaurant near the base of the trail. The trail is called "El Pianista". The restaurant is Italian, hence the Italian play on words "el" being "il" in Italian.
Assuming that the other edited pics had someone photoshopped out of them, which seems fairly plausible: 509 probably showed/incriminated someone else in the pic with the girls in a way that would make it impossible to photoshop out.
Keep in mind we don't know when 509 would have been taken, it could be anytime between evening April 1st and midnight April 8th. It could've been a picture of Kris' dead body after she died or was killed around April 5th or something.
I'm going to give my two cents, and I hope you guys give more theories on what happen instead of just talking about the cover up, which is a given.
First, the cover up was done most likely to keep tourist coming to the place. If people know that there are bands of rapist in the jungle, boom, no turism, no money. Better make it seem like some outlandish case with conflicting evidence.
Now, the other theory that I remember. The girls were being guided by a dog from a local family as far as I recall. It's very possible that the dog went inside the woods and the girls frantically searched for it fearing losing the dog and having to confront the family later. Due to this they went deep into the forest, where they got lost. The dog actually came back alone, and the girls:
A) Got found by some guys and used as cock sleeves until they got bored and killed them
B) Succumbed to the elements
There was supposedly a big rope made of metal I think that people use to get to the other side of some place inside that area. Some people speculate that these girls tried to get across during bad weather, one fell down and injured herself, or downright died. The other one was using her cellphone to illuminate the place in search for her friend. Once again, she could have been found by some local rapists and the same result.
Another, more simple explanation, is that they didn't knew the terrain very well and one of them fell downhill on some steep place and injured herself or died. Same development as the last paragraph after the other girl was trying to locate her lost friend.
Girls rarely go deep inna woods without males accompanying them.
I just have a really hard time seeing two white girls going more than 300ft into the woods off an unmarked path ... unless there were some locals guiding them.
If local dog gets lost, what would make more sense? Run deep inna woods, or tell the locals that their stupid dog ran off into the woods.
I love the paranormal and spooky shit and all that but there's many of you in this thread looking for something that just isn't there in this one. Let's all just take a nice nap and stop thinking about it.
Unrelated, can I interest you in a vacation package to lovely Panama? It's one of the safest countries in South America you know!
[...]
[...]
Why the hands behind the back? why that strange and specific expression on his face? Gives me vibes of some occult shit that might be going on
https://i.imgur.com/0Uk20Nh.jpg
>guys it's nothing guys it was just normal rape and murder guys nothing paranormal
that picture really freaks me out
https://voyager.lupomesky.cz/kremers-froon/kris-gully-3composite.jpg
cant embed because file size limit and im too lazy but shes clearly doing a funny salute/shade her face from the sun and sticking her tongue out
Ah but not all the bones were even recovered. I mean, honestly, if we want to entertain the idea that something ate them that's paranormal there could be all sorts of explanations, like extremely sharp teeth. It could have been eating them when they took the pictures.
They could have been part of some kind of ritual.
Or both of those options, maybe the townspeople are connected in some way to this thing.
[...]
Finally, we do know that Drugs can connect you to things...
The night before all of this they were at a party. Whatever they took, it may have brought them closer to something that would make them a sacrifice. Something that would eat, torture, or rape them.
It is time to wisen up, we know for a FACT that the locals would support this kind of thing, if they had ties to some kind of primeval entities in the woods, or underground, even if it was just a ritualistic murder, this was certainly something dark going on under everyone's noses.
Theres a video of the parents and they stop at a T junction and they ask "whats down there" pointing clearly at a trail going through the bushes only to quickly get moved on and told they are mistaken.
Parents fault for not having expendable cash, if that happened to my kids I would have a blackwater delta team armed to the teeth with thermal combing that area at night + an actually good PI + a female pro to act as bait if possible until I found out what happened.
I would scorch earth... but the parents just gave up.
This. We haven't gotten into the family angle yet, what information do we have about the family? did they traveled there to help with the search? Did they go there after the bodies were found?did they even go there at all? What was their impression of the investigation that took place? Did they comment on any suspicions against the official version? Or did they lose all interest in solving the mystery once the deaths were confirmed? It's weird considering the info on the altered photos, if it happened to a close relative of mine I'd be pissed to say the least...
They flew out about a week after they went AWOL and helped with the search and returned multiple times I think. IRC one family laid it to rest and said they got lost and gave up, the other family thinks foul play but are out of avenues of recourse. All parties seem to think the Panama authorities bungled the case (esp the lead prosecutor).
Alright so someone said that body parts were found. Wouldn’t a forensics expert be able to tell if the dismemberment was done with a sharp object (which would be proof that they were murdered)?
Well that's the other thing that's interesting about this case, is that it shares similarities with other missing persons cases which are mysterious: in that some of the body parts are just found hanging in trees (like the pelvis, if I remember correctly). And then the feet are in the shoes still and everything, yadda yadda.
How does that work? Someone is chemically bleaching the bones and then hanging them in trees? There is something at work here, there is some kind of thing eating people. That's all there is to it.
But someone said they haven’t found tooth marks. A forensics doctor would be able to tell if a foot was chopped with a sharp object right? Archeological studies do this all the time with bones far more ancient than these to determine the cause of death.
Ah but not all the bones were even recovered. I mean, honestly, if we want to entertain the idea that something ate them that's paranormal there could be all sorts of explanations, like extremely sharp teeth. It could have been eating them when they took the pictures.
They could have been part of some kind of ritual.
Or both of those options, maybe the townspeople are connected in some way to this thing.
This one is tantalising. There's so many gaps and I really want to stress that I don't think we will ever come to a substantive conclusion about these poor ladies' last days. The most measured response is to give brevity and thought to likely scenarios. It's basically unsolvable. But anyway.
The condition of the back pack doesn't necessarily mean human intervention. I've left belongings in forests and wetlands for years and so long as you pick a place that avoids the obvious flow of the water (obvious from positioning and flourishing of local flora and root indentations of trees) or away from ground water they just won't rot. Even in a rain forest there are places where a back pack will not rot due to environmental moisture. Nylon can last for years without decaying. At worst, it will weaken, dry and be flake due to sun exposure.
The camera could have been tampered with. But, more likely it was accidental. The girls trajectory or chartered course would not likely have taken them far from routes known to tourist agencies or locals. If the camera, likely configured in their own language, was accessed by someone who found it on or near a trail (who probably considered it's monetary value not it's forensic value) they make have deleted photos by accident. Locals or police may have done this, or locals connected to the police. To cover up their accident they may have fumbled, but this doesn't strictly make them implicit in the girls deaths. Misadventure is the far more likely culprit. Have you ever tried even purchasing a train ticket in a foreign language? Using your phone in a foreign language. All the buttons are in the same place but without the language cue you are bound to make mistakes.
I think the girls mistook the length of the journey. Coming from Europe and being financially comfortable enough to travel they picked a climate and environment that they weren't familiar with or acclimated to. They dun goofed.
>they make have deleted photos by accident. Locals or police may have done this, or locals connected to the police
The Dutch cops were the ones doing the forensic data recovery though. They said that the missing photo was not just deleted but overwritten so as to be unrecoverable. To do this, you have to physically bring the memory card, plug it into a PC and use specialized software to shred the file, and then they'd have had to bring it / the camera back and put it back in the backpack. Doesn't make any sense. There's no way it was just a stupid mistake done by curious locals.
>not all the bones were even recovered.
But at least a foot was recovered inside a show right? Is it such an outlandish thing for forensics to determine how the foot was separated from the body, if sawed, or chopped, or broken off, or bitten off, or blown off, which could help solve the case? I don't think so. So why didn't they? Why nobody talks about this? Isn't the family at least curious?
>how the foot was separated from the body, if sawed, or chopped, or broken off, or bitten off, or blown off
Neither of those things, it doesn't show signs of violence except broken bones inside and a previous chronic inflammation.
https://i.imgur.com/NVz3kFT.jpg
These ladies probably got honeypotted by some local dudes connected to a cartel of somekind and ended up kidnapped and the weird night pictures taken a week later where just them attempting to gain any sorta visibility while escaping through the jungle at night with no equipment and then whatever happens happened....if they were kidnapped by a cartel they probably weren't under all that much surveillance because it was believed "what are these two white women gonna do? Just run away into the scary jungle" but then they did
>the weird night pictures taken a week later where just them attempting to gain any sorta visibility while escaping through the jungle at night with no equipment and then whatever happens happened....
Remember that those pics were taken all from the same place (literally the same spot) for 3 hours straight. Flashing a light in pitch black night without moon gives you tempotary blindness, doesn't help to see around at all. There were no elicopters patrolling the area and surely not during night. Flashing would also be risky if they were escaping, but it's not very useful to signal your position either because the jungle trees stop the light after only a few meters.
Higher res of the collage? Looks schizo at this resolution.
Here, it's quite convincing that the spot is the same and the photographer isn't moving at all
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
Possible location of the night pictures, just found it on google, idk the if the source is reliable. The rock comparison is quite right I admit
Alright guys hear me out >they're with brown dudes who are related to local mafia >during the hike they start acting creepy >girls end up running randomly in the forest >they fall down a cliff >one of them is down, one phone lost >second one stays nearby, tries to contact help with remaining phone, doesn't have PIN >at night she freaks out and tries to scare away an animal with flash >brown dudes/mafia ends up finding them >they pick up both girls >removes brown dudes from camera >do whatever with the girls >time passes >real investigation starts >mafia doesn't want any trouble >mafia is buddies with local authority >throw what remains of the girls at random so they give up on the search
Does it seem plausible?
>>at night she freaks out and tries to scare away an animal with flash
Only on the 8th night?
dudes/mafia ends up finding them
Only after 8 days? And they kept the backpack with all personal effects only to leave it after a couple months to be found? How many km did the girls run into the forest?
This is the most convincing, but then I don't explain how the girls kept calling 911 only at certain hours of the day. Did they have the phines still wiylth them and the guard was off during that time? Could be
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
>the girls kept calling 911 only at certain hours of the day
Can you remind me if only one phone made the calls? You're saying they were calling for the first week, right?
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
>You're saying they were calling for the first week, right?
Yes, but I don't remember if they used only one phone or both. For sure at a certain point the (remaining?) girl or a third party couldn't access the phone anymore because there were several attempts with wrong pin
Idk anon, but a brown would probably take the 88 dollars and trash the rest together with the bodies right? Or do you think the browns are somewhat capable of 4d chess playing?
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
If they're mafia related they're above the random farmer and can act with planning. They could have been high IQ enough to know taking the money meant foul play, or like another anon mentioned, people do stupid meaningless shit trying to cover themselves.
The fact the dudes disappeared one by one after the fact is mafia-ish to me.
>one of them is down, one phone lost
This did not happen because the first phone "was lost" (ran out of battery) after 4 days. On the 5th day in the morning there was one more successful PIN entry and 2 hours later was the first incorrect PIN.
If things had happened how you describe them, they would've been with these creepy brown dudes for 4 days, hungry and severely dehydrated, before running and getting injured. Then the night flash photos took place 3 more days after that.
The rest of what you describe isn't completely implausible but there's just no way the story really began like this.
>You're saying they were calling for the first week, right?
Yes, but I don't remember if they used only one phone or both. For sure at a certain point the (remaining?) girl or a third party couldn't access the phone anymore because there were several attempts with wrong pin
OK here is my new theory >they're with brown dudes who are related to local mafia >during the hike they kidnap the girls >they accidentally (?) kill one of the girls early >throw both girls in a rape shed, >strip the one that is still alive of everything, >just throw the second one in a corner with her bloody stuff >for a week, the girl still alive tries to use her dead friend's phone >she manages to escape the rape shed with some of her stuff >couldn't get her own phone >but she still has dead friend's phone >she falls down a cliff >breaks some bones >cries and camera flashes and wrong PIN >brown guys find her >make her disappear >real investigation starts >mafia doesn't want any trouble >buddies with local authorities >they use the only good computer around (police's) to remove brown dudes from camera >throw what remains of the girls at random >try to make it look like weird freak accident >kill off the only guys who know what really happened
Better?
>>but she still has dead friend's phone
Doesn't even need to be true. She just needs to run away with the camera. To prove what happened.
The removed pic was taken in the rape shed while the guys weren't looking.
Op here, NTA: >hungry and severely dehydrated
Not if they were fed by their kidnappers >Then the night flash photos took place 3 more days after that.
Not sure why. What if only one of the girls escaped after 3 days her friend was already dead or taken by kidnappers to another place? That would explain the difference in bones (the bleached one was the first killed, the other one escaped and fell into the pit where she took the night photos before passing out)
. Some doubts about this for me:
guys find her >>make her disappear
Why the difference in body "treatment"? >>they use the only good computer around (police's) to remove brown dudes from camera
Why not just telling everyone the memory card got corrupted instead of pulling all this shit? (Of course, brown retards, but anyway....)
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
>Why the difference in body "treatment"?
One girl died a week before the other?
I think when/if the living girl escaped, they definitely had gotten rid of the first body the mafia way.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
Only one girl bones had limestone bleaching treatment. Like only one of them was dismembered by mafia
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
>Why not just telling everyone the memory card got corrupted instead of pulling all this shit?
It's between just doing whatever comes to mind to cover themselves regardless of whether it's smart or not, and trying their best to turn it into a total mystery.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
I know it's speculation, but it requires a lot of work to photoshop all those pics, only to get a poor gain for the cover up. >be brown mafia cop >girls lost in jungle narration to push >find only bones in the jungle
Or >find perfectly fine backpack with functioning camera, mysterious pics in it and a lot of work to erase all evidence from it.
Not the most instinctual nor intellectual choice here, it's straight up psycho behaviour. And that brings my theory variation: what if there's a serial killer connection? And he did all the weird stuff? Someone found dismembered (by human) dogs near the area
>during the hike they kidnap the girls
They kidnapped them but let both of them make 911 calls for 3 days? >they accidentally (?) kill one of the girls early
Specifically on day 5 between ~11am and ~1pm. >throw both girls in a rape shed
That would have had to be hidden in the forest somewhere because they never got cell reception at any point, so they never left the forest.
Also if she got thrown in a rape shed why would she not take any pictures of it using the camera? Why didn't she spend any time stuck inside the shed to try to write a message or journal anything that was happening to her? >just throw the second one in a corner with her bloody stuff
Why would they let her keep any of her stuff in the shed? That makes zero sense, especially if they were actually mafia related, they wouldn't be that stupid. >cries and camera flashes
Why?? If she was on the run from mafia browns, the last thing she'd want to do is attract their attention with useless camera flashes that leave her blind when she's also immobile.
Also, the phone was not used at all on the night the pictures were taken. The last time it had been used was 2 days prior and the next (and last) time it would be turned on was 3 days after the camera incident. >they use the only good computer around (police's) to remove brown dudes from camera
Why the fuck would they give the camera back though? They could've just returned the phones and destroyed the camera, destroying all incriminating evidence. The phones alone prove absolutely nothing, it's the camera evidence that makes shit really weird. Why would they bother making a couple shitty and obvious photoshops and then intentionally release them when they knew the Dutch cops were alerady on their case? Again, that's not just retarded, that's insane.
It's one of the more reasonable theories but still fails to explain everything.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
>They kidnapped them but let both of them make 911 calls for 3 days?
Girls managed to keep their phones for that duration >Specifically on day 5 between ~11am and ~1pm
When kidnappers find out phones have been used, they kill one of the girls >That would have had to be hidden in the forest somewhere because they never got cell reception at any point, so they never left the forest
Sure >Also if she got thrown in a rape shed why would she not take any pictures of it using the camera? Why didn't she spend any time stuck inside the shed to try to write a message or journal anything that was happening to her?
She did take a picture of the rape shed, she escaped with camera, fell down a cliff, used camera not to go insane in the dark >Why would they let her keep any of her stuff in the shed? That makes zero sense, especially if they were actually mafia related, they wouldn't be that stupid
Phones hidden up their vagenes for all I know. Even if they didn't let the girls keep anything; she could have grabbed something during her escape >Why?? If she was on the run from mafia browns, the last thing she'd want to do is attract their attention with useless camera flashes that leave her blind when she's also immobile
Just going insane from the previous week and breaking half your bones when you finally escape the rape shed >Also, the phone was not used at all on the night the pictures were taken. The last time it had been used was 2 days prior and the next (and last) time it would be turned on was 3 days after the camera incident
She escaped with camera but not with phone then
(1/2)
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
>Why the fuck would they give the camera back though?
I know it's speculation, but it requires a lot of work to photoshop all those pics, only to get a poor gain for the cover up. >be brown mafia cop >girls lost in jungle narration to push >find only bones in the jungle
Or >find perfectly fine backpack with functioning camera, mysterious pics in it and a lot of work to erase all evidence from it.
Not the most instinctual nor intellectual choice here, it's straight up psycho behaviour. And that brings my theory variation: what if there's a serial killer connection? And he did all the weird stuff? Someone found dismembered (by human) dogs near the area
This one I don't know. Could be just humans being random and not autistically rational the way we are.
>>for a couple days girls hid their phones somewhere and only used them when guards weren't around
For 6 days straight at almost the exact same time every day without missing a beat?
Like anon said, guard shifts.
That's actually in favour of the guard shift theory.
[...]
Why leave the camera if they discovered the phones? Still not 100% sure about that, but this is definitely my favourite theory right now
Camera was dropped somewhere nearby and escaping girl could have had grabbed it and snapped a picture of the shed's location before escaping
Op here, NTA: >hungry and severely dehydrated
Not if they were fed by their kidnappers >Then the night flash photos took place 3 more days after that.
Not sure why. What if only one of the girls escaped after 3 days her friend was already dead or taken by kidnappers to another place? That would explain the difference in bones (the bleached one was the first killed, the other one escaped and fell into the pit where she took the night photos before passing out)
Coroner report said no visible macro or microscopic wear marks of any type were found on the bones, they seemed impossibly cleanly separated. Evidence of phosphorus use (possibly lye?) on one skeleton and a mismatched decomposition timeline for the other. Coroner was apparently strong armed and psyopped in the press by the lead prosecutor (many irregularities with her).
Don’t go alone innawoods was the moral of the story of so many fairy tales (they were in fact cautionary tales) But we stopped reading our girls fairy tales because they’re politically incorrect, racists, etc. Two beautiful girls. So sad.
So, you are very lucky I am in this board tonight. I have studied this case the most among any missing person's cases. The amount of things that doesn't add up is staggering, as others have pointed out.
It's why it's here -- on the paranormal board. This, of all cases, really should be.
But to explore why -- I want to first bring your attention to the picture posted in OP. This was the LAST picture taken BEFORE the night time pics.
What is most notable about it, is WHY was it taken? Not, WHAT is in the photograph, but WHY would they stop and take a picture of some trees, a seemingly dead end in the forest?
What I want you to understand, is that there are a lot of hidden stuff in the woods, and it is known that there could be all sorts of tunnels going on, but if you take a look at this picture you can SEE wired structures in the trees... there is something that looks like a SPINE RIGHT above her.
Tell me that doesn't scare the shit out of you. WHAT is that? WHY does her face look like this? The expression is blank and flat.
Since this was the most haunting case from the unsolved crimes thread I wanted to know more of your theories
Finally, we do know that Drugs can connect you to things...
The night before all of this they were at a party. Whatever they took, it may have brought them closer to something that would make them a sacrifice. Something that would eat, torture, or rape them.
It is time to wisen up, we know for a FACT that the locals would support this kind of thing, if they had ties to some kind of primeval entities in the woods, or underground, even if it was just a ritualistic murder, this was certainly something dark going on under everyone's noses.
>What I want you to understand, is that there are a lot of hidden stuff in the woods, and it is known that there could be all sorts of tunnels going on, but if you take a look at this picture you can SEE wired structures in the trees... there is something that looks like a SPINE RIGHT above her.
Says this to us...doesn't post pic he's on about..lol
>your theories
I went balls deep into this after someone posted a link to some blog
Idk how legit the info on there is but apparently there was a lot of shit overlooked
Best I could do >cell phone data leads me to believe they got separated at some point >one of them likely got hurt and the other went for help, got lost, kidnapped, etc.
reason for (from memory) >it showed separate GPS pings for only ONE of the cellphones >that cellphone had repeatedly been locked out because of failed passcode attempts >yet they still dialed the Dutch emergency number
Some drug running psychos in the jungle wouldn’t know the Dutch number for 9-1-1
I think a lot of the photos from the camera were then tired, exhausted, frantically looking for landmarks in a jungle
Or they were using the flash for light (because cellphone pings showed their phones had been repeatedly turned off and on)
They got lost as fuck and definitely died. The really, really sketchy part was how their remains were found. Bones don’t just wash clean in water. Not in that short of a time.
Something definitely happened to them. Bodies don’t just disintegrate.
>cell phone data leads me to believe they got separated at some point
Either they got separated or Kris actually died. 1 or 2 days before this happened Lisanne's phone ran out of battery and died, she continued using Kris' phone after but didn't know the PIN. It's weird that she would try to unlock it to the point of locking out though, not only is that not necessary to call emergency, but she made it impossible to use other features of the phone like SMS. It looks desperate, like the consequences didn't matter to her anymore. Which makes me think Kris was actually dead, so if Lisanne couldn't guess the PIN, no one would be getting into the phone ever again. >yet they still dialed the Dutch emergency number
Only during the first 2 days. I was excited to see you post this because I thought I'd missed something but sadly it doesn't prove much. On day 3 they only tried 911 and only once, and since then they never tried to call again. >Bones don’t just wash clean in water.
There were also no signs of abrasion on the bones, which would've occurred if they'd been dragged by the river.
I think it's interesting that the prevailing story is that one of the girls got hurt while they were both walking off the trail and in the confusion they got lost in the jungle.
you can look at this guy's blog about that very trail with lots of pictures. The trail is quite well defined and the surrounding jungle is quite thick.
https://www.journeyera.com/el-pianista-trail-boquete/
which logically leads me to this article about how common sense for most people unprepared to go on an off trail expedition into the jungle would probably NOT go off the trail for any reason, especially if the nature highly discourages you from doing it with slopes, dense vegetation, and mud.
https://imperfectplan.com/2020/09/01/nobody-walks-off-trail-in-the-jungle-wearing-shorts/
another thing I think is interesting is the picture of the girls hair. that picture was taken something like 7 days into them being "lost" in the jungle.. and yet, its so clean and beautiful? No dirt? No leaves or twigs of plants? Not all stuck together from water or being oily from going (likely more than) 7 days without a shower?
I highly encourage reading some of the people's comments below the imperfectplan article... some cool insights and the author interacts with the commenters a lot leading to even more knowledge.
These ladies probably got honeypotted by some local dudes connected to a cartel of somekind and ended up kidnapped and the weird night pictures taken a week later where just them attempting to gain any sorta visibility while escaping through the jungle at night with no equipment and then whatever happens happened....if they were kidnapped by a cartel they probably weren't under all that much surveillance because it was believed "what are these two white women gonna do? Just run away into the scary jungle" but then they did
I think we should all consider the possibility that BigFoot was involved. BigFeet do traditionally team up with teams of human rapists and chances are BigFoot even joined in. The transdimensional powers of the BigFoot could account for the deletion of the photos from the camera. Also the photos that depicted nothing could have been the girls attempting to take photos of the BigFoot that gang raped them.
The pelvis split in half could be evidence of gigantic BigFoot dick just absolutely tearing up their terrified Dutch poontangs. Missing bones are explained by Bigfoot partially eating the victims, before, during or after the gang rape. The human participants problem roasted BigFoot and claimed he took it too far. Could explain why they were never found because BigFoot killed/raped/ate all the humans involved. ??? I dunno it seems just as likely as anything else. Oh and the backpack being left behind is standard BigFoot behaviour. BigFoot only wears Prada. Upon recognising the bag as Kmart brand it was likely left behind.
what stands out to me is their lack of text attempts or logging their peril in any form or fashion. My assumption would be that there was someone else with them - preventing them from making their attempting at getting help obvious. As if they were trying to call for help, while trying to hide it from someone.
It was the samsung actually. The ishit's battery lasted for 10 days, although for 7 out of those 10 it was only turned on for brief periods to check for signal.
>You're saying they were calling for the first week, right?
Yes, but I don't remember if they used only one phone or both. For sure at a certain point the (remaining?) girl or a third party couldn't access the phone anymore because there were several attempts with wrong pin
>the girls kept calling 911 only at certain hours of the day
Can you remind me if only one phone made the calls? You're saying they were calling for the first week, right?
The calls only took place between day 1 and day 3, after that no more calls were placed. There were about 2 calls a day on average, both phones were used and both 112 and 911 were called. On the third day only 911 was called a single time.
[...]
OK here is my new theory >they're with brown dudes who are related to local mafia >during the hike they kidnap the girls >they accidentally (?) kill one of the girls early >throw both girls in a rape shed, >strip the one that is still alive of everything, >just throw the second one in a corner with her bloody stuff >for a week, the girl still alive tries to use her dead friend's phone >she manages to escape the rape shed with some of her stuff >couldn't get her own phone >but she still has dead friend's phone >she falls down a cliff >breaks some bones >cries and camera flashes and wrong PIN >brown guys find her >make her disappear >real investigation starts >mafia doesn't want any trouble >buddies with local authorities >they use the only good computer around (police's) to remove brown dudes from camera >throw what remains of the girls at random >try to make it look like weird freak accident >kill off the only guys who know what really happened
Better?
>for a couple days girls hid their phones somewhere and only used them when guards weren't around >eventually guys took phone/they ran out of battery >kill one of the girl to teach them a lesson >remaining girl so freaked out she manages to escape with camera a couple days later
>>for a couple days girls hid their phones somewhere and only used them when guards weren't around
For 6 days straight at almost the exact same time every day without missing a beat?
That's actually in favour of the guard shift theory.
>for a couple days girls hid their phones somewhere and only used them when guards weren't around >eventually guys took phone/they ran out of battery >kill one of the girl to teach them a lesson >remaining girl so freaked out she manages to escape with camera a couple days later
Why leave the camera if they discovered the phones? Still not 100% sure about that, but this is definitely my favourite theory right now
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
>That's actually in favour of the guard shift theory.
It explains the how but not the why. After day 3 they kept turning on the phones (twice a day) but didn't actually make any calls. Why would they even use the phones to check for signal if they hadn't moved at all during that time? And if they had moved places in the meantime, why did the guards shift almost perfectly at the same time every day but only during the first half of the day and not later? It just seems weird, yeah it's not impossible but it's really weird. What would they have been trying to accomplish?
>They kidnapped them but let both of them make 911 calls for 3 days?
Girls managed to keep their phones for that duration >Specifically on day 5 between ~11am and ~1pm
When kidnappers find out phones have been used, they kill one of the girls >That would have had to be hidden in the forest somewhere because they never got cell reception at any point, so they never left the forest
Sure >Also if she got thrown in a rape shed why would she not take any pictures of it using the camera? Why didn't she spend any time stuck inside the shed to try to write a message or journal anything that was happening to her?
She did take a picture of the rape shed, she escaped with camera, fell down a cliff, used camera not to go insane in the dark >Why would they let her keep any of her stuff in the shed? That makes zero sense, especially if they were actually mafia related, they wouldn't be that stupid
Phones hidden up their vagenes for all I know. Even if they didn't let the girls keep anything; she could have grabbed something during her escape >Why?? If she was on the run from mafia browns, the last thing she'd want to do is attract their attention with useless camera flashes that leave her blind when she's also immobile
Just going insane from the previous week and breaking half your bones when you finally escape the rape shed >Also, the phone was not used at all on the night the pictures were taken. The last time it had been used was 2 days prior and the next (and last) time it would be turned on was 3 days after the camera incident
She escaped with camera but not with phone then
(1/2)
>Girls managed to keep their phones for that duration
For 5 days specifically. It's possible Lisanne kept Kris' phone even longer after that because something happened to Kris after day 5, but that doesn't mean the phone was taken away. >When kidnappers find out phones have been used, they kill one of the girls
They killed the girl but didn't take the phone away, because the phone usage pattern stayed the exact same even on day 6, after Kris had become incapable of unlocking the pin, presumably because she was the one killed. That's a really weird decision.
The rest is pretty reasonable. So we're assuming the deleted pic 509 was of the rape shed.
https://i.imgur.com/g9HlAy4.jpg
wtf there was someone behind her, the blog doesnt even mention it, the blur behind her is in shape of a larger person, right?
I dunno anon it looks like a brown skeleton hanging in the trees but I'm pretty sure that's not in fact what it really was.
Or am I? I don't even know anymore. This case is fucking crazy.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
>why did the guards shift almost perfectly at the same time every day but only during the first half of the day and not later?
Could have been two guards changing places once a day. >What would they have been trying to accomplish?
They tried to call for help when there wasn't any people around (only during the changing of the guard)
Alright another try >they're with brown dudes related to local mafia >at some point a guy is holding the camera >first girl gets kidnapped while the second girl is ahead and not looking >last picture of girl looking worried is taken by guy >both girls are sent to rape shed in the jungle nearby >somehow they managed to keep a hold of their phones >during guard shifts or lunches they discreetly try to call 911 >after a few days, dudes find out about phones, kill one girl >second girl freaks out hard and plans her escape >when stench becomes awful they get rid of first body chemically after fucking it for a couple days >girl escapes with camera left around by guys >she snatches a pic of the rape shed >she falls down a cliff and breaks half her bones >goes insane in the dark from the jungle noise, flashes away imaginary monster >they eventually find her >because of her broken bones they get rid of her on the spot hastily >mafia ask police what to do >keep in mind everyone is panicky and uneducated >at this point they really think they will get caught >they decide to make it look as weird and confusing as possible >police uses the town's only computer to completely delete rape shed pic >guys involved are killed off
>investigation starts >they throw what's left of the girls around to make the search stop
Also if you've read the full thing, like another anon said, the search was half-assed as fuck by the police, probably because the rape shed wasn't far from the trail.
>first girl gets kidnapped while the second girl is ahead and not looking
Not looking or listening or anything else. I'll give this a pass because there were streams of water and shit but still. For the last hour of camera photoshooting all pictures were taken only of Kris and not Lisanne, but she faced the camera numerous times, so if it was a mafia brown taking the pics, she'd have noticed unless they only kidnapped Lisanne just before the last pic. Not impossible but not likely either.
I think this whole idea of one of the guys taking the last pic(s) is a red herring, frankly. >during guard shifts or lunches they discreetly try to call 911
These timeframes only cover the pattern of Kris' phone checking for signal twice daily. She made a call outside of those timeframes too and Lisanne did the same all the time every day until her phone died on day 4. >after a few days, dudes find out about phones, kill one girl
They killed her for using her phone but didn't take her phone away and left Lisanne free to use it again. I just refuse to believe they'd let that happen. Surely this wasn't the first time they'd killed someone. >girl escapes with camera left around by guys
This is one day after the killing of Kris. Lisanne takes the camera which she happens to find somewhere but not the phone she'd already been using every day. Why? >she falls down a cliff and breaks half her bones
Just nothing that this happened anywhere between immediately after her escape and 2 days after. >goes insane in the dark from the jungle noise, flashes away imaginary monster
She survived the first night in this environment just fine.
The camera flashes weren't completely haphazard either, some pictures show some strange red fabric or whatever shit placed on a rock. Does it mean anything?
>Not looking or listening or anything else. I
Yes lot of noise in the jungle, if you walk far enough ahead you can't hear whoever is behind you on a trail >if it was a mafia brown taking the pics, she'd have noticed
At first the guys were friendly, girls thought they were hanging out with locals, so giving away camera for pics made sense to them >made a call outside of those timeframes too and Lisanne did the same all the time every day
We would have to assume they somehow managed to hide those phones very well OR the guys knew there was no reception and didn't bother taking them away because they're psychos like that >killed her for using her phone but didn't take her phone away and left Lisanne free to use it again
You guys are right about this, I think they were separated and somehow one girl only had her friend's phone without the PIN code at this point
A girl was either killed then or when the other one escaped >takes the camera which she happens to find somewhere but not the phone she'd already been using every day
She could have had the phone with no battery left >some strange red fabric or whatever shit placed on a rock
Either debris from a nearby river (she fell on rocks) or something she made for future investigation (the former is more likely to me)
>police uses the town's only computer to completely delete rape shed pic
This remains my main problem with the case that will probably never be explained. Removing this pic in a way that's resistant to forensic analysis is not a trivial task. If the cops were smart enough to know they needed to use specialized methods, surely they wouldn't also be so fucking stupid as to release this evidence of tampering into the world? Especially not along with the unedited night footage and a bunch of really bad photoshops of the day pics. They'd have just destroyed this evidence and only returned the phones.
This is absolutely unexplainable to me. It draws so much fucking attention and raises so many questions, and if this is really a murder case, no perpetrator or collaborant in their right mind would ever let any of this shit escape. It's not a question of being stupid or smart, it's a question of being completely insane. And they clearly weren't totally stupid if they knew how to correctly delete #509.
True, it is indeed weird they doctored the pic and then gave away the camera
>Second girl they had to chop off on the spot where she fell, threw body parts down the river.
On her bones there are no signs compatible with being in the river. Also the foot was found inside a shoe still intact and without signs of violent chopping either >Once again you guys are just not used to how shitty pictures used to be compared to today
I'm talking about the night head pic, that was 100% cropped according with investigators. Also there are some data anomalies in the other ones (daytime pics like the one with the weird breast proportions)
Bone and feet are from body that got properly dissolved on mafia ground, the parts they threw away so the investigation would stop
>They'd have just destroyed this evidence and only returned the phones. >This is absolutely unexplainable to me.
This >It draws so much fucking attention and raises so many questions, and if this is really a murder case, no perpetrator or collaborant in their right mind would ever let any of this shit escape.
Except it was a serial killer messing up with detectives like zodiac or btk, that's completely insane and has happened before
Honestly I fully expect some random mafia kidnappers not to think properly about what they should and should not destroy, they didn't have months to think it through or anything
>Bone and feet are from body that got properly dissolved on mafia ground
No, the foot is from Lisanne, the girl who supposedly escaped. Also they found a part of her skin and it wasn't showing much decomposition too. While they found only (bleached) bones from Kris (the redhead who probably died first whose phone got wrong pin numbers)
It really depends on what happened when they found Lisanne. Did they chop her up on the spot, did they bring her back and killed her to shup her up, did they killed her before bringing her body (parts?) back somewhere hidden, only throwing the investigation a bone later?
I have a theory that the deleted photo 509 is probably NOT the only photo deleted. I submit that the photos were in fact taken off the SD card and select photos were removed and/or edited. To cover for this, all photos were manually renamed in sequential order, the SD card was formatted and the newly renamed photo collection copied over (trivial to change the date of the computer when doing this to avoid timestamp issues). The problem is that they mis-numbered them, accidentally skipping 509 and didn't notice.
In effect it has become somewhat of a red herring for the community, with much brainpower focused on this macguffin photo that might be the single missing piece of the puzzle, when in reality there could be dozens or hundreds of missing photos.
Good point, I'll keep it in mind. You're saying it's possible the camera covered more days/things but we know 911 was called and if they had not been kidnapped no picture would have disappeared at all
>Once again you guys don't take into account that digital pictures used to be much shittier than today
I'm absolutely taking this into account, but old digital camera quality doesn't cause the proportions of one half of your body to be wrong nor should it introduce blending artifacts around your arm. See [...] >They had to take some fast and hard decisions.
No they didn't. They had the backpack containing literally all the evidence against them but they slipped up supposedly due to pressure. Yet when they had 2 victims in their rape shed they were totally calm and calculating? Even after they hid the backpack in the forest again, it would take 2 months for it to be discovered. This makes no sense man. >Because contrary to the deleted pic, it makes it look like they just got lost and died of exposure
At first glance yes, until you realize that the gap between the daytime pics of the girls and the nighttime pics is almost a week and it'd be impossible for them to survive that long alone in a jungle with no water or food. In order for this to retain any plausibility whatsoever, they would've had to calculate with the fact that the phone data would be made available and show that the girls were probably still alive ~6 days in. Again, that's a huge fucking assumption to make and they would've never ever been able to think of this if they had been either under pressure or stupid.
>old digital camera quality doesn't cause the proportions of one half of your body to be wrong nor should it introduce blending artifacts around your arm
I'm saying they absolutely can. Thinking pictures can't look weird on their own is kinda autistic (which I can relate to) >when they had 2 victims in their rape shed they were totally calm and calculating?
What makes you think this? >after they hid the backpack in the forest again, it would take 2 months for it to be discovered
Do we have this timeline? Did the backpack spend 2 months out in the open? Or was it thrown away 2 months later to show investigators the girls were probably dead in a ditch somewhere > it'd be impossible for them to survive that long alone in a jungle with no water or food
This is our westerner opinion. They didn't think of this because *they can* survive in the jungle easily.
>>when they had 2 victims in their rape shed they were totally calm and calculating? >What makes you think this?
Your claim that they let the girls keep their phones because they knew they had nothing to worry about. Sounds pretty calm and calculating to me, if it's true. >Do we have this timeline? Did the backpack spend 2 months out in the open? Or was it thrown away 2 months later to show investigators the girls were probably dead in a ditch somewhere
We know the backpack was found by some locals 2 months after the girls went missing. We don't know how long it had been there, it was dry and only a bit dirty and frayed, the damage wasn't too bad. It could've been there for a few weeks maybe. I doubt it was the full 2 months, which cements the fact that whoever manipulated the evidence was not acting in a hurry. >This is our westerner opinion. They didn't think of this because *they can* survive in the jungle easily.
Yeah but they would've also been extra careful leaving any evidence behind because they knew the Dutch cops were on the case with their eurowhitoid eyes peeled. It doesn't take a PhD in anthropology to realize that two white college girls won't survive a week in a jungle with literally no resources. Again, they were deliberately planting falsified evidence according to your theory, so surely they didn't neglect to consider this detail if they were already taking things this far.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
>calm and calculating
How about just psychos? We're saying a girl managed to escape so they're not the best at it. >dry and only a bit dirty and frayed, the damage wasn't too bad
Probably didn't spend a lot of time outside and was only thrown away along with whatever they had left when the investigation happened to make the foreigners fuck off (it told the non-corrupt investigators that they were most probably looking for dead bodies now)
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
>How about just psychos? We're saying a girl managed to escape so they're not the best at it.
Sure, regarding the phone in rape shed theory, I believe you it's possible. But I'm still absolutely convinced they must have had complete control over the process of creating and spreading the faked evidence if the local cops were complicit, so there's no reason why they would've fucked it up so badly. Keep in mind this backpack is literally the only reason why this thread exists at all and why people are still talking about this case 10 years later. They could've simply not put it out there and I'm sure that's what any criminal looking to avoid getting caught would've done.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
My theory is that the cops were only involved in the cover up later, when the shed dudes thought they had fucked up royally and were at risk of being found.
I think the idea was that dropping the remains in the jungle would stop the official investigation. They might have not thought as much about online sleuths.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
The bones stopped the investigation though, not the backpack. The backpack just gave the case notoriety among the public.
Who do you think planted the backpack, the cops or the thugs themselves? Because I'm pretty sure whoever did it had to be the same party that doctored the images and deleted #509. Otherwise they'd be planting incriminating evidence that could've compromised them completely.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
Guide F is def involved, he pops up over and over again. Was supposed to take them on the Pianista, related to the owner of the ranch at the end of the trail, participated in the search and rescue, was the one that found a lot of the remains, turned in the backpack after some villagers 'gave it to him'.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
I bet everyone knows exactly what happened but shuts the fuck up not to get killed.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
The doctored camera was used to give a lot of weight to the theory that they simply got lost. Because what the camera shows is two white girls getting lost in the jungle.
The police probably was able to do the editing but anyone could have planted the backpack.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
What the camera shows is two girls getting lost in the jungle and doing weird shit after apparently surviving for an oddly long time. When combined with the phone evidence from the same backpack, it shows that the whole thing happened under really fucking weird and unexplainable circumstances that point to something happening other then just two white girls getting lost alone.
So I gotta keep asking, if this is not just a freak incident and someone else was in fact involved, possibly killed them, why would they willingly release this information? I gotta ask this doubly so if they were some kind of local organized crime group. This could've cost them everything.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
There are still no hard proof someone was involved, which was considered enough by the perps, I think.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
The proof is in the camera. Someone definitely fucked with the camera contents. The erased image 509 is hard evidence of tampering.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
And that's how our killers get caught, right? They messed up. Either didn't expect the doctoring to be obvious, or felt like, showing the jungle pictures as if no foul play was clearly involved, was valuable enough to take that risk.
They're in bumfuck nowhere and the police is in their pocket.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
They're never getting caught. But there is evidence of foul play with the investigation and it's hard to explain why this evidence exists and hasn't simply been destroyed along with #509. That's all we know for sure.
I gotta go but it's been fun. We could have a follow-up thread to this.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
I just think the camera is where they actually messed up.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
It had to be handled in such a way that no conclusive proof one way or the other was ever found, but enough questions were left that normal people get over stimulated by it and shut it out. The single most important thing from the government/police POV is that the tourism money must continue to flow. What we ended up with is the best situation they could manage to manufacture: the girls probably got lost, we don't know for sure, but our cannibalistic native mafia certainly had nothing to do with it.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
To be fair, the local police did the search, with no dog, they were definitely in on it, what the mafia couldn't do themselves, the police definitely did.
>police uses the town's only computer to completely delete rape shed pic
This remains my main problem with the case that will probably never be explained. Removing this pic in a way that's resistant to forensic analysis is not a trivial task. If the cops were smart enough to know they needed to use specialized methods, surely they wouldn't also be so fucking stupid as to release this evidence of tampering into the world? Especially not along with the unedited night footage and a bunch of really bad photoshops of the day pics. They'd have just destroyed this evidence and only returned the phones.
This is absolutely unexplainable to me. It draws so much fucking attention and raises so many questions, and if this is really a murder case, no perpetrator or collaborant in their right mind would ever let any of this shit escape. It's not a question of being stupid or smart, it's a question of being completely insane. And they clearly weren't totally stupid if they knew how to correctly delete #509.
>They'd have just destroyed this evidence and only returned the phones. >This is absolutely unexplainable to me.
This >It draws so much fucking attention and raises so many questions, and if this is really a murder case, no perpetrator or collaborant in their right mind would ever let any of this shit escape.
Except it was a serial killer messing up with detectives like zodiac or btk, that's completely insane and has happened before
>Except it was a serial killer messing up with detectives like zodiac or btk, that's completely insane and has happened before
Yeah, but then we're dealing with a killer or group of killers who work on their own, without police involvement.
>Not looking or listening or anything else. I
Yes lot of noise in the jungle, if you walk far enough ahead you can't hear whoever is behind you on a trail >if it was a mafia brown taking the pics, she'd have noticed
At first the guys were friendly, girls thought they were hanging out with locals, so giving away camera for pics made sense to them >made a call outside of those timeframes too and Lisanne did the same all the time every day
We would have to assume they somehow managed to hide those phones very well OR the guys knew there was no reception and didn't bother taking them away because they're psychos like that >killed her for using her phone but didn't take her phone away and left Lisanne free to use it again
You guys are right about this, I think they were separated and somehow one girl only had her friend's phone without the PIN code at this point
A girl was either killed then or when the other one escaped >takes the camera which she happens to find somewhere but not the phone she'd already been using every day
She could have had the phone with no battery left >some strange red fabric or whatever shit placed on a rock
Either debris from a nearby river (she fell on rocks) or something she made for future investigation (the former is more likely to me)
[...]
True, it is indeed weird they doctored the pic and then gave away the camera
[...]
Bone and feet are from body that got properly dissolved on mafia ground, the parts they threw away so the investigation would stop
[...]
Honestly I fully expect some random mafia kidnappers not to think properly about what they should and should not destroy, they didn't have months to think it through or anything
>the guys knew there was no reception and didn't bother taking them away because they're psychos like that
This is possible but further disproves the idea that Kris was killed for using her phone. Also if they were so sure the girls' phones couldn't compromise them for technical reasons, why wouldn't they later realize that releasing shitty shooped pictures would raise suspicion? >I fully expect some random mafia kidnappers not to think properly about what they should and should not destroy
in this context seems incongruent with that theory. >She could have had the phone with no battery left
That was her own phone. She knew it was out of battery. She had been using Kris' phone for the past day so she'd have brought that one instead, yet she didn't.
[...]
They gave away the camera to make it look like they were enjoying their hike and suddenly disappeared
Yeah but then why not delete the weird ass nighttime pictures altogether? Why would they willingly let them raise so much suspicion?
When was the deleted picture taken exactly? Do we know that?
We don't, the data is completely lost. All we know is the numeric ordering #509 places it between the last daytime image (evening on April 1st) and the first nighttime image (April 8th, 1AM). Could've been at any point during that timeframe.
>further disproves the idea that Kris was killed for using her phone
Yeah I'm scratching that from my theory >shitty shooped pictures
Once again you guys don't take into account that digital pictures used to be much shittier than today >in this context seems incongruent with that theory
Humans aren't robots. They had to take some fast and hard decisions. How many serial killers get caught because of some dumb shit? >had been using Kris' phone for the past day so she'd have brought that one instead, yet she didn't
For some reason she didn't have it when she escaped >why not delete the weird ass nighttime pictures altogether
Because contrary to the deleted pic, it makes it look like they just got lost and died of exposure
>Once again you guys don't take into account that digital pictures used to be much shittier than today
I'm absolutely taking this into account, but old digital camera quality doesn't cause the proportions of one half of your body to be wrong nor should it introduce blending artifacts around your arm. See
https://i.imgur.com/vGVeoqz.jpg
>trust me bro i can tell from the pixels
lul
>They had to take some fast and hard decisions.
No they didn't. They had the backpack containing literally all the evidence against them but they slipped up supposedly due to pressure. Yet when they had 2 victims in their rape shed they were totally calm and calculating? Even after they hid the backpack in the forest again, it would take 2 months for it to be discovered. This makes no sense man. >Because contrary to the deleted pic, it makes it look like they just got lost and died of exposure
At first glance yes, until you realize that the gap between the daytime pics of the girls and the nighttime pics is almost a week and it'd be impossible for them to survive that long alone in a jungle with no water or food. In order for this to retain any plausibility whatsoever, they would've had to calculate with the fact that the phone data would be made available and show that the girls were probably still alive ~6 days in. Again, that's a huge fucking assumption to make and they would've never ever been able to think of this if they had been either under pressure or stupid.
>without police involvement.
Maybe police was scared to investigate that killer or killer group because of cartel not wanting attention in the area/ the murder being one of their affiliates
>Not looking or listening or anything else. I
Yes lot of noise in the jungle, if you walk far enough ahead you can't hear whoever is behind you on a trail >if it was a mafia brown taking the pics, she'd have noticed
At first the guys were friendly, girls thought they were hanging out with locals, so giving away camera for pics made sense to them >made a call outside of those timeframes too and Lisanne did the same all the time every day
We would have to assume they somehow managed to hide those phones very well OR the guys knew there was no reception and didn't bother taking them away because they're psychos like that >killed her for using her phone but didn't take her phone away and left Lisanne free to use it again
You guys are right about this, I think they were separated and somehow one girl only had her friend's phone without the PIN code at this point
A girl was either killed then or when the other one escaped >takes the camera which she happens to find somewhere but not the phone she'd already been using every day
She could have had the phone with no battery left >some strange red fabric or whatever shit placed on a rock
Either debris from a nearby river (she fell on rocks) or something she made for future investigation (the former is more likely to me)
[...]
True, it is indeed weird they doctored the pic and then gave away the camera
[...]
Bone and feet are from body that got properly dissolved on mafia ground, the parts they threw away so the investigation would stop
[...]
Honestly I fully expect some random mafia kidnappers not to think properly about what they should and should not destroy, they didn't have months to think it through or anything
They gave away the camera to make it look like they were enjoying their hike and suddenly disappeared
Sometime after 13:55 on the day of the hike, likely before 16:40 (911 call) and before the first night photo on day 8. Otherwise we don't know. We do know it most likely contains a photo of a retarded brown criminal.
It's not that hard to think about.
They wanted to go the extra mile and use a professional doctoring to remove one pic and leave the others that implied a total accident.
It certainly means that they expected the deleted pic to leave no trace on camera.
This is extremely possible and would definitely explain why we found it. We’re still talking about brown moneys acting in a frenzy, I’m even surprised they got this far tbh.
Nah we aren't. Police got involved in the coverup when the shed guys panicked a week into the abduction. Explains how the girls could use their phones and even escape, while the doctoring was more professionally done.
We know for a fact the local police didn't use dogs for the search and didn't go to any nearby building in the jungle.
I have a theory that the deleted photo 509 is probably NOT the only photo deleted. I submit that the photos were in fact taken off the SD card and select photos were removed and/or edited. To cover for this, all photos were manually renamed in sequential order, the SD card was formatted and the newly renamed photo collection copied over (trivial to change the date of the computer when doing this to avoid timestamp issues). The problem is that they mis-numbered them, accidentally skipping 509 and didn't notice.
In effect it has become somewhat of a red herring for the community, with much brainpower focused on this macguffin photo that might be the single missing piece of the puzzle, when in reality there could be dozens or hundreds of missing photos.
>the newly renamed photo collection copied over (trivial to change the date of the computer when doing this to avoid timestamp issues).
So they changed the date of the computer to simulate different times for each photo? This is even more work than photoshopping everything, which was already unbelievable
No, the EXIF data retains the date the photo was taken regardless, they changed the date on the computer to show the correct file creation date (the one you see in a file manager).
No, the EXIF data retains the date the photo was taken regardless, they changed the date on the computer to show the correct file creation date (the one you see in a file manager).
Seen as this is x i will just post my intuitive thoughts >they probably practice voodoo sorcery or something and given its a tourist spot, they probably sacrifice / rape / eat white people.
A white male went missing in the same area from the UK but ofc no one really cared because he wasn't a white female. inb4 "incel" its actually a well documented phenomena https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missing_white_woman_syndrome >they fucked around and found out
Local gang called "bandito" that they partied with / likely had sexual contact with apparently killed them in a trap house near a mango grove. They found a concealed trail to the Pianista hike round the back of that house. >stumbled onto human trafficking route and got snatched
But why would they show up bleached or dismembered and not get sold for a premium? >guide f (some farmer) kidnapped them
This seems likely too, he owns a farm close by, and seems very dodgy. Same guide the parents paid.
>why would they show up bleached or dismembered and not get sold for a premium?
To make investigators fuck off, the Dutch didn't know whether the girls were alive or not before the body parts showed up
The Spaniards should have put all of these Amerindian voodoo savages to the sword immediately upon their arrival, but in their greed they chose wealth, slavery and cooperation with these devil worshipers, instead of fulfilling God's will and ridding the world of these heathens.
>Eventually, at least 33 bones were found scattered along the same river bank - with evidence of injury.
This could signal something. >use of 33 in the media
https://old.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/czqsde/does_anyone_find_it_weird_that_33_is_used_in_the/
https://old.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/kga5h9/lets_talk_about_the_obvious_occultfreemason_use/
https://old.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/fd1xcn/bizarre_coronavirus_and_the_number_33/
>here's more 33 signaling
ref: https://koudekaas.blogspot.com/?m=1 >1:37PM (European 13:37 PM) 4/5 & 4/6 >Dutch NFI investigators noted down this time of 13:37 for two days in a row in the case files >later clarified by the authorities that it was an error made by the NFI investigators, who inadvertently copied the time of 13:37 and printed it twice; both for April 5th and 6th
I am quite convinced that the three dudes brought them somewhere mafia related (which they were too) with the intent of raping them. Probably killed one by accident. Mafia wasn’t happy about this, so the other one had to go to, but also the three homosexuals. Police obviously helped tampering the evidence and spreading the remains. Guide F was definitely one of the big mafia people involved.
Good bread anyway, feds didn’t get to ruin this for once.
I have a theory on what happened to the 3 boys >they weren’t mafia, but mafia-adjacent playboys
Context: being from a crime-ridden third-world country myself (BR), I know for a fact that it’s considered “cool” for some to “know someone” who is a drug dealer and can get you drugs and “has got your back”, and to boast to your playboy friends that “I can go inside the favela if I want bro” (see the movie Elite of the Troop to get a feeling for this). Continuing. >they meet the two girls in the resort >they want to fuck them, but realize they are just cockteases >get mad at them >approach their mafia friends (because they got the rape infrastructure and guns), saying: Hey we know two hot white gringas who are traveling alone, they will be at such and such location such and such day >mafia guys agree to kidnap them >the playboys and mafia dudes take turns at raping them, eventually killing them and ditching their bodies >local police refuses to look for them because corruption >Dutch police gets on the case, now there could be international media attention directed towards their operation >mafia dudes are afraid the playboys are going to speak under pressure and jeopardize their drug operation >kill them before they can be interrogated (after all, they despise playboys; again watch Elite of the Troop) >sloppy attempt at cover up follows, but they manage to get away with it because of corrupt police and limp-wristed parents and nation (Nederlands)
I’m from southern Italy and the logic there is exactly the same. >I know/am family with this and this mobster
I agree with you that the three limpdicks could’ve have just been guappos (playboys as you call em), though as I stated here
I am quite convinced that the three dudes brought them somewhere mafia related (which they were too) with the intent of raping them. Probably killed one by accident. Mafia wasn’t happy about this, so the other one had to go to, but also the three homosexuals. Police obviously helped tampering the evidence and spreading the remains. Guide F was definitely one of the big mafia people involved.
Good bread anyway, feds didn’t get to ruin this for once.
I still think mafia wasn’t necessarily involved in the kidnapping/initial killing, but was dragged in by the playboys e.g. taking the girls to a mafia-related base of ops. Everything that happened from there strongly looks like someone approaching thins reactively rather than proactively, as in, it wasn’t planned and acted in haste and confusingly. As you say, they only got away with it because of Dutch authorities being useless.
I think Kris Kremers fell and died, so Lisanne eventually had no choice but to move on and try to get out herself. If her phone had died, she would of course attempt to get into Kris’s phone out of desperation in the event that by some miracle there was a window of cell service.
They wouldn't have left the same touristy trail because everyone and their moms told them not to. Without leaving that trail there is no grave accident.
Aight another draft then >girls are on the trail with a few friendly guys >guys are related to a local mafia and were planning on kidnapping the girls >after a point a guy is holding the camera because why not they're friendly locals 🙂 >first girl gets abducted while second one is walking ahead (jungle is noisy) >last picture of her looking worried is taken by dude (psycho) >(up til then, first possible time of the deleted picture, showing perpetrator(s)) >girls are both taken to a nearby shed >girls somehow kept a hold of their phones, maybe the guys didn't bother, maybe knowing there was no reception >captive, they attempt to contact 911 whenever they can >girls are possibly separated >first girl possibly gets killed then
Somehow the remaining girl (Lisanne) still has her friend's phone, still has battery, can't unlock it
After a while both phone(s) have no battery or are taken away
Lisanne manages to escape without her phone >if first girl (Kris) is still alive, that's when she gets killed off >body of Kris is then properly disposed of, dissolved the mafia way >Lisanne somehow grabs the camera >(up til now is the second possible time of the deleted picture, showing where she was kept prisoner) >runs blindly through the jungle and falls down a cliff >bones broken, she stays there for a while, freaks out in the dark, tries to scare away a perceived predator with flashes >guys end up finding her, but have to get rid of her body hastily on the spot because of her broken bones >panicky and uneducated guys are convinced they messed up and are going to get caught >mafia and the local authorities are related, they ask the police what to do >police uses their computer to completely remove the perp-or-shed picture >things have to look weird and confusing, with 0 hard proof someone was involved >lower-rank goons involved are killed off >real investigation starts, mafia or police throws out what remains of the girls so the investigation stops
(1/2)
>police doesn't go near the shed, doesn't bring dogs because it's closeby >doctored camera is used to make it look like two girls were hiking on their own and got lost and died of exposure
How did the killers mess up?
They didn't expect the deleted picture to leave any trace on the camera
And thought it was valuable to their protection to drop a camera that tells a no-foul-play story. Which it actually did with the deleted pic, rather than making it disappear.
(2/2)
We have a pretty good working theory ITT about how mafia browns could have done this. Can we discuss in the next thread how the weird shit could be explained if they got lost and we're alone/abandoned?
>how the weird shit could be explained if they got lost and we're alone/abandoned
I don't think it can, because of the professionally deleted pic. It's the clear sign of foul play that got away.
Yeah but it doesn't imply they were murdered. Just that someone (the guide F) could have abandoned them to their fate and wanted to disassociate himself from the situation, or something.
For this to work, guide F would have needed to get the girls off the very clear touristy trail that everybody told them not to leave.
Then he would need to go with the camera to someone competent.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deaths_of_Kris_Kremers_and_Lisanne_Froon
Quick rundown:
>Spring 2014
>Two college students from the Netherlands, Kris and Lisanne, travel to Panama
>They leave their host family's home one morning to go for a hike
>Bring with them a dog belonging to owners of a local restaurant
>Told no one where they're going
>Later that night
>The dog returns home but the girls are nowhere to be found
>Host family is alarmed and calls the police
>Cops ignore the situation and do nothing until Dutch cops arrive 4 days later to assist
>Search begins but no one knows where they went and the area is a mountainous rainforest
>Fast forward more than 2 months
>Local woman finds a backpack by the river, strangely dry and undamaged
>Backpack belonged to the girls, contains Lisanne's passport, her camera and both of their phones
>Phone usage records are pulled by police
>For the first 2 days starting 5 hours into the hike, both phones used intermittently to attempt to call emergency, with no success due to bad reception
>After 4 days, only one phone has battery left and stays on for another week
>During that time, many attempts to enter the PIN were made but none correct
>Camera found to contain about a dozen pics taken during the first day by the girls and 90 pictures taken during a single night 7 days after the girls left
>All except 3 of the night pictures are pure black
>One shows the back of Kris' head
>Pic related was the last one taken
>Filenames indicate that between the last daytime image and the first nighttime image, one more image existed but was deleted
>Search continues along the river
>A boot found with a foot still in it
>Numerous scattered bones are found kilometers apart
>Some appear bleached and inconsistent with natural decomposition
>No scratches or bite marks detected
>DNA analysis confirms the bones belong to the girls
>Kris' pelvis found snapped in half
Detailed blog about the case:
https://koudekaas.blogspot.com/?m=1
Came here to post this, a very good/spooky read with all the details if it's your first time in this thread.
interesting.
the info from the camera and cell phone usage sure does make you wonder.
the back pack being found relatively clean and not wet, with their belongings packed neatly inside is particularly suspicious.
the circumstances of the back pack being placed/found/returned as it was has all the attributes of simply being a "Bag of personal effects" of the dead. it seems creepy and suspicious
Stupid is as stupid does. I don't really fucking care. Whatever fuckwits were dumb enough to mate, shat out those two fuckwits. Zombie NPC europeans, maybe more accurately labelled 'city-state dwellers', as occasionally ameridiots, and others, raised around metro decay cities, completely abstract from Nature, will do similar stupidity.
That is exactly what eugenics, proper breeding and raising, was against. Unfortunately with the social spoon, it just breeds more of those kind of dysgenic retards.
Jesus fuck, what a a sad and retarded post
pretty obvious that they got murdered by some local scumbags who then tried to get rid of the physical evidence
why is this a mystery exactly?
hello agent Johnson, how's it like knowing that you'll spend an eternity burning for serving your israeli masters?
>>Cops ignore the situation and do nothing until Dutch cops arrive 4 days later to assist
Fucking why
Do you think they could have been rescued if the police started looking for them immediately?
Pretend like I don't know what you're talking about.
That's the quick rundown whole point
Some local browns raped and murdered them, then tried to clean up the evidence. That's what happened. Some retarded white women got themselves killed because they thought they were too good for bad things to happen to them, that the world is a naturally good place and people are the same everywhere. They paid the price, they died horrifically, and now they've been reduced to a murder mystery for online dweebs to ponder and debate over, while intentionally ignoring the most obvious cause of their death. It was just a bunch of dumb, horny, violent locals. Case closed.
Basically.
Well spoken
It was also too probably sex trafficking but basically the same deal
I believe this too. The suspects probably went back to take the photos to throw off the scent. I believe in a lot of paranormal but theres also a lot of fucked up humans out there especially in 3rd world countries where white women are seen as a commodity
>The suspects probably went back to take the photos to throw off the scent
They went back to a place far away (the plants are different from where they started the hike), at 3am to take wird ass pictures not showing anything else but a creek or cave? No way
Did they also go back to the spot one more time 3 days later just to turn on Kris' phone, turn it right back off again and leave? Because that's pretty stupid and no one would do that, but if you were correct, this is the only thing that could have happened. So it's more likely that you're wrong instead.
This or they got lost in the jungle and died. Animals then ate them
Where did white women hurt u?
This.
Dumb tourists always get lost/killed in the forest and the police understand this.
It's why they didn't do anything.
dude did anyone else just see that thing GRAB her?
Gtfo, normie: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missing_white_woman_syndrome
>t. retard who doesn't know anything about the case
Explain all the police cover ups, the murders of local suspects, the weird night photos. There's nothing clear about this
>Police coverups
Dumb brown cops didn't want an international incident
>Murder of the local suspects
Dumb brown cops didn't want an international incident
>The weird night photos.
Dumb brown murderers playing with their stuff after they got done raping and murdering them
>Dumb brown cops didn't want an international incident
>cause international incident
>still relevant after 10 years
Bravo, Boquete P.D.
Indeed
Are you telling me they knew how to fake phone calls, completely erase only one photo from the camera, modify the other pics, create an enormous pile of contradictory proofs, but they didn't figure out that doing so they would have focused the attention on their cartel infested shithole? I'm not buying it, sorry
Yeah, that's exactly what I'm telling you. The steps people take to cover up their tracks often times make them more obvious. This behavior is exactly what gets criminals caught in less shitty countries. They don't think to themselves
>Will attempting to cover all of this up make me look more suspicious?
They think
>I have to cover this up right fucking now
So yeah, they failed. That seems obvious to someone like you or I in hindsight, that trying to do what they did would fail, but that's not obvious to a stupid brown.
NTA but it is obvious you don't know the case well. There is no straightforward explanation. They were murdered but the how and when and all the conflicting pieces of evidence are what make this case exceptionally interesting. There's lots of fault put on the local police but the Dutch authorities also committed quite a few fuck ups, including the parents of the girls refusing to work with local private detectives who are basically the equicalent of private health care vs public (Boquete PD). I get that you might not be interested but your insistence on shitting up the thread is annoying.
None of what you just said contradicts anything I said.
okay retarded shill
>be murderer
>kill and dismember two women
>decide to cover it up
>by leaving a backpack their belongings practically untouched and in a safe spot for the authorities to find
Brainlet take, fuck off this thread already, like
said you're more annoying than a Redditor or a Twitter shill.
The photos were taken in some bumfuck remote part of the rain forest between 1 and 5 am.
Do you need me to reiterate? Is there some mystical universal force that would prevent people who are familiar the with the terrain and literally live in the middle of the rainforest from being in the middle of the rainforest? I genuinely cannot believe I'm getting resistance on this. What do you want to have happened? A rainforest Sasquatch killed them and took photos? Or do you not want an explanation, do you want a big fat "I don't know" so you can continue to theorize about it ad infinitum? It's extremely obvious what happened here. It's happened to plenty of tourists just like them.
>vastly underestimates difficult terrain for local civilians
there are maybe three dozen people who know the woods THAT well and the police aren't doing their jobs because
>muh racism
and international police aren't getting anywhere because
>muh racism
fat fucking chance dude this was illuminati werewolves
>there are maybe three dozen people who know the woods THAT well
Conjecture. Somebody doesn't really even need to know the woods to be out in the middle of them. I understand your point, but this is a big problem I see with internet people trying to solve mysteries in general. The presumption of expertise and rationality. (You) could kill someone in the rainforest in the middle of the night without being great at navigating the rainforest just as easily as (You) could kill someone in the woods in the middle of the night without being great at navigating the woods. You just have a general familiarity with the terrain you live around, and that's more than enough to traverse it in most cases, especially in the short term. It's not all or nothing with these sorts of things, they don't need to have been killed by survival experts who live specifically in the rainforest. You can just walk into the woods. And keep walking. Then walk back.
>and international police aren't getting anywhere because muh racism
No, just because the local police are half uncooperative and half retarded.
>illuminati werewolves
Obviously
>You just have a general familiarity with the terrain you live around, and that's more than enough to traverse it in most cases,
this is always considering every backwoods redneck as a bear grills rainforest traveller's, right?
even guerrillas fighting the government in the woods get lost in there dumbshit
>they said there were only 3 night pictures and the rest were pitch black
>family confirmed
>now it's proven the opposite
Explain why family and dutch detectives hide proof then
Also, why panamanian cops put all that effort in messing up with the camera when they could have easily made it disappear with all the backpack instead of finding it.
>inb4 retarded browns
Yeah, that's ok, but this is not a retard modus operandi, looks like some schizo serial killer trying to pull a Zodiac with detectives
Stupidity and technical know-how are not mutually exclusive. Again, another issue with guys like you, is the assumption that because someone is skilled at a very specific thing means that they're generally competent and would demonstrate perfectly intelligent behavior in a vacuum. Think about how many stupid Indian guys try to scam people online. They're genuinely pretty good with tech, but are generally very stupid people otherwise. Do not assume that someone is a genius just because they're capable of something the average person isn't.
Here it's not about being stupid, but putting a lot of effort into something completely useless. It's not like they tried to cover traces doing a sloppy job, but they created a whole structure of non sequitur (which needs to be thought of, and it's quite creative in this case). If their only reason was cover some jungle dweller rapists (allegedly three, who died in weird circunstamces right after) it's pretty surprising at least
I think jaded anon is right, because at first there was no proofs of their deaths but when the Dutch police and the parents got involved, whoever did this threw them a bone, literally, so they would stop looking.
There was no proof of death until Dutchies got involved because there was literally no investigation until Dutchies got involved. Chances are if you die in a jungle no one will ever find your remains if no one ever comes looking for you specifically. Shocking huh? Yeah I know.
That doesn't contradict what you were replying to.
>I deliberately entered a thread full of things I don't like...how could this be happening?
Fuck off you know it all retard
An entire week after the murder, at night, in the same jungle where the murder took place?
Yeah makes a lot of sense. Retard
Sure. Why not? Because it's not something you would do, right? But you aren't a retarded brown, are you?
Your line of logic makes about as much sense as the evidence itself, so I have no choice but to conclude you're a retarded brown as well
>didn't want an international incident
Some anon that claimed to be from there said there were cannibalistic tribes that the local government didn't want anyone to know about and it was likely a coverup to keep that a secret. But I don't know, would a couple white female tourists really be appealing to them?
>want to keep secret inside forest
>not closing the case by finding some bones in the river
>build up a shit ton of fake proof and weird things to create a real life creepypasta
Again, shit cover up job. And by shit I mean out of reality level of shittiness, not even explainable with brown skin
>t. retard who doesn't know anything about the case
Talking about yourself, normie?
Ok, Anglo-Arab.
I am an Amerimutt I just have no delusions about how stupid white women are and why people care so much when they die. They're self destructively altruistic. Which makes them get into situations where they get murdered, a lot. It's their own fault for assuming the best in others.
>I am an Amerimutt
Slav + Irish israelite + African.
I have some Mexican in me as well mijo
How long have you two been together?
Head on back plebbit
There's no such thing as altruism.
White women are more captivating to people because they're genuinely much easier to have sympathy for due to them being the most attractive women with a golden retriever-esque outlook on the world. It's always genuinely tragic, like a precocious child being cut down in their youth. A precious resource gone to waste.
you know you only care about white women too. naggers dont love their own women, they call them 'kweenz' as a joke
White people are just better than you.
they were like exotic animals, and so plump too. Strutting and swaying so arrogantly, I don't blame whoever did this..
All mechanical clocks tight... Is Marduk poisoning my mind? It could be an awful pain to get in one then.
they wanted to know about Panama werewolves. they found them.
directly related to the dog owner, they're related to the werewolves
wonder what the probability is of them being trafficked?
Responded to the post about photoshopped picture on the other thread
But why would this be photoshopped? She's smiling and doesn't look like she's in distress. So what was it to hide? Someone else that was in the pic?
>Someone else that was in the pic?
Exactly this. There's speculation about three local guys being with them. Picrel is an unsourced very low res photo (said to come from the phone of one of them). The river location was later recognised. All those guys died shortly after the case in weird circumstances (the phone owner drowned in the same river after 4 days ). The problem is: why photoshop every pic instead of erasing everything like theuly did to photo #509? Why not discarding the whole camera into the river, or finding only some pieces of it?
>The problem is: why photoshop
Maybe to help support the narrative that they were alone and just got lost.
To do that it's enough to find their bones down a creek or something, you're all underestimating the ridiculous effort put into messing up with those photos (not mentioning they had the opposite effect)
>the ridiculous effort put into
yeah, seems like they were trying really hard to keep from incriminating someone to the point of fabricating poorly done evidence that the girls were alone.
>to keep from incriminating someone
Or at least to deny that they girls were with someone. Maybe the guys from the lake picture. Or the guide.
how would they die from exposure?
how would they get lost? just go back.
one of them probably fell from one of the crossings and broke her leg..
It'd be kind of funny though. Thousands of years later... Hmmm she's still just fine and anon is burning in hell.
*Still burning
They probably got kidnapped and raped and killed.
Stupid for young girls to travel alone.
This shit happens in big cities all the time as well, and foreign woman are often targeted.
Yes you dumbfuck you're only the the 6 gorillionth anon ITT to say this exact thing. If it's so clear to you what happened here, then explain the nighttime pics taken 1 week later, the photoshopping and tampering, the partly bleached bones, the failed SIM unlocking attempts, the change in mood in the last daytime pics, the weird timing of the 911 calls. And unlike the previous idiot try to explain it without using the words "retarded" and "brown".
It doesn't necessarily have to be paranormal but it sure as shit is not just your typical rape and murder. What makes this case unlike any other is the sheer number of incongruent, unexplainable pieces of evidence.
>What makes this case unlike any other is the sheer number of incongruent, unexplainable pieces of evidence.
Yeah people are motivated to cover shit up to protect reputations, and bribes, and shit like that.
>try to explain it without using the words "retarded" and "brown".
Low IQ male individuals of the rape capital of south america decided to rape and murder two white girls that were traveling alone.
The criminals may have been connected to organized drug crime, or they may have just been local thugs.
Fun Fact: I went to Colombia before and there was a rape case of a white woman on the beach, which the locals blamed on non-Colombian south americans who were traveling through the area (ie probably drug trafficking thugs). Shit like this happens all the fucking time, but gets covered up, because everyone wants those tourist shekels.
>nightime pics
Phones do this all the time when stored in a pocket or a backpack and accidently get turned on.
>photoshopping and tampering
A local police tampering the evidence in order to cover up the case. Possibly due to a bribe, or maybe to protect Panama's reputation for tourists.
>bleached bones
Trying to hide the body
>change in mood in the last daytime pics
Those young locals they were swimming with were probably the ones who decided to rape and murder them.
>weird timing of the 911 calls.
They were kept alive for several days before being killed, and one of them had hidden her phone or some shit.
>Phones do this all the time when stored in a pocket or a backpack and accidently get turned on.
This was a digital camera, not a phone, the year was 2014. I'm sure I don't need to tell you that digital cameras have physical buttons you need to push to take pictures and those really don't go off randomly.
>A local police tampering the evidence in order to cover up the case.
If the cops did this, why the fuck would they take the camera back to the jungle and leave it there in a backpack for someone to find?
>Trying to hide the body
Why only one and not the other?
>Those young locals they were swimming with were probably the ones who decided to rape and murder them.
That explains absolutely nothing, it's just you restating something irrelevant that you've already said a million times.
>one of them had hidden her phone or some shit.
Yeah, just about sums up the deep 200 IQ thought you put into explaining this case.
Why are you even posting itt if you don't care about what really happened and you're so content with your "retarded browns" theory that fails to explain 90% of the evidence about what happened?
>you're so content with your "retarded browns" theory that fails to explain 90% of the evidence about what happened?
What more do you want to know?
Either they got raped and murdered,
or they got lost in the woods and animals killed them.
But that photos were apparently tampered with, means it is almost certainly a case of rape and murder.
>I'm sure I don't need to tell you that digital cameras have physical buttons you need to push to take pictures and those really don't go off randomly.
OK boomer.
Well why don't you fill us in with what you think happened? Why is this case of rape and murder so exceptional to you?
>Well why don't you fill us in with what you think happened
I don't know what happened. No one knows, you certainly don't. That's why this thread exists, so we can discuss it and maybe come up with some plausible new ideas. The problem is that your retarded brown rapist theory is fucking stupid because it just flat out ignores just about every known detail that makes this case strange and difficult to explain, so it's completely worthless. The fact that you yourself don't realize what's unusual about this case further proves that you haven't even read the story and thus are full of shit, but if you want a brief list of some of the strange details, see
.
The fact that you've already posted numerous times ITT and you still know nothing about what's being discussed makes me think you're just trolling, to be real with you my nagger.
hate to say it but
>seethe, cope, mald
Because it happens all the time to white girls who travel by themselves to 3rd world shitholes. Not every country is full of feminist who respect women and think theyre equal to men. In a lot of those countries rape is commonplace
>Because it happens all the time to white girls who travel by themselves to 3rd world shitholes.
You fucking dumbos keep repeating this while not realising it's the exact reason why this is a special case. Why in the other 1000000 cases of women missing nobody gives a shit after some time but here we are after 10 years discussing a (for you) totally normal event? Because everything in it is fucking strange. Nobody is denying stupid tourists pay the toll, nobody is pushing feminist propaganda here. So please, stop being obnoxious and focus on this particular case or fuck off to your favourite blacked thread
its obvious by your reaction to it that you live in the area or a similar place and fit this description, try toning it down and acting civiliz- never mind.
2014!!?? They’re at Diego Garcia for sure. How many orbs are in the photos?
not him but been following this case for years
>explain the nighttime pics taken 1 week later
one was dying from the fall crossing the rope bridge and the other was delirious from starvation/exposure after refusing to leave her side, tried to use the flash to track a noise in the night
>the photoshopping and tampering
509 deleted by the girls themselves (probably lewds) before the real trouble started (or possibly after, embarrassment is a helluva drug even when facing death) and photo shopping is basically based on 'trust me bro i can tell from the pixels"
>the partly bleached bones
combination of high PH river water and bones being washed out down a pebble floor river over the course of weeks then baking in the sun once they came to a stop
>the failed SIM unlocking attempts
obviously she didn't know the password to her companions phone, she had the OS pin but neither of them considered sharing the sim password for outbound calls
>the change in mood in the last daytime pics
"we are lost" "its your fault" "you said go this way" etc any other minor disagreement is possible between two stressed out young women
>the weird timing of the 911 calls
not sure whats weird about it, they tried multiple times and probably had little to no understanding of how cell phone signals work
To preempt your next likely questions:
>why was the backpack found neat and tidy
obviously whoever found it wanted to sell the shit inside before they realized what it was and quietly repacked it before turning it in
>why did the three boys in the lake picture die
anon, it's the third world, no explanation required
In the end foul play of course is possible. It's also possible they died like many others who go missing in the wild, an unfortunate culmination of many small mistakes and unlucky occurrences combined with an initial naive sense of invincibility caused by their sheltered upbringing and resultant hubris (see death valley germans, bill ewasko etc).
>509 deleted by the girls themselves (probably lewds) before the real trouble started (or possibly after, embarrassment is a helluva drug even when facing death)
Kek, that file could be deleted only from a PC, and it was canceled after the night pics were taken. Various experts tested the same camera model and it's been proven you can't completely erase a pic from the device, and that if you take a pic after the one you delete the numerical succession continues as it never existed. >and photo shopping is basically based on 'trust me bro i can tell from the pixels"
Yeah, explain picrel then genius
Her hair matches well, the angle is the same, but the reason you wash out the larger picture Toni, is that you know the individual strands don't line up.
I always wondered the name of that font you use.
I'm not toni, I just took the photo from the other thread. Camera experts from the investigations said that the picture was cropped anyway so...
Even so, I'm betting it was lewds and either the girls deleted it and the 'experts' were retards or the experts themselves deleted it as it contained nothing pertinent to the investigation and was embarrassing (nips)
By "experts" I mean several parties from the west, not panama cops obviously. Just open the link
, and read something if you're not a brown illiterate
You notice how the daytime pictures get weird, the girls stop laughing and smiling and the mood and photography itself gets creepy? 509 was taken *after* all that. What's more, we don't know when it was taken. Could've been day 1, could've been day 8. If it was a nude pic, it could've been a nude pic someone took of Kris on day 6 after he killed her, or it could've been a million other things too.
>trust me bro i can tell from the pixels
lul
Better yet, check out the lighting in the neck/clavicle area. The cut is hard as fuck, it doesn't look like any pixel I've ever seen lol
Yeah, it's pretty bad. I know this is schizo, but this is the neck and shoulder. Look at the black strap and how it goes completely flat. Then it becomes really jagged and starts spking inwards and outwards.
That's just regular pixelation from a shitty camera. Source: I existed before HD displays
And Lisanne being the tall one is consistent with a 5'5 manlet brownie being cropped out from the photo.
Theres definitely some weird photoshop going on here. Look at her chest zoomed in. Theres a line between her upper left shoulderblade down to her shirt where you can tell theres an edit. Who would take their time to edit something like that and why
This is literally the spooky hair pic…what the fuck?
Yeah apparently it's cropped from a normal picture and doesn't belong with the night pics
a few days, dudes find out about phones, kill one girl
I would say they killed her or separated her from the friend, not discovered the phones
of her broken bones they get rid of her on the spot hastily
Still not clear how they cut her foot and why it was still intact
uses the town's only computer to completely delete rape shed pic
The problem is they not only deleted that pic, but also cropped and modified the others
>I would say they killed her or separated her from the friend, not discovered the phones
That actually makes more sense yes
>Still not clear how they cut her foot and why it was still intact
By this point there are two types of body parts, for two girls
First girl they killed on mafia ground they could simply dissolve in caustic weld the good old fashioned way, they threw the remains to stop the investigation.
Second girl they had to chop off on the spot where she fell, threw body parts down the river.
>problem is they not only deleted that pic, but also cropped and modified the others
Once again you guys are just not used to how shitty pictures used to be compared to today.
>Second girl they had to chop off on the spot where she fell, threw body parts down the river.
On her bones there are no signs compatible with being in the river. Also the foot was found inside a shoe still intact and without signs of violent chopping either
>Once again you guys are just not used to how shitty pictures used to be compared to today
I'm talking about the night head pic, that was 100% cropped according with investigators. Also there are some data anomalies in the other ones (daytime pics like the one with the weird breast proportions)
>509 deleted by the girls themselves
509 wasn't just deleted, it was erased completely and unrecoverable from the filesystem. There are entire academic fields dedicated to restoring deleted camera pictures and other shit like that, and unless the Dutch cops lied, someone made damn sure 509 could never be recovered. It certainly wasn't the girls who did it.
The photoshopping of the daytime pics is something I didn't know about at first but it doesn't seem completely implausible. Some of the pics do look really weird and not just because of bad image quality.
>"we are lost" "its your fault" "you said go this way"
If they were lost and worried about it I'm not sure they'd willingly be taking more pics, especially when they couldn't even bring themselves to pose nicely and smile for the pics, but I guess it's possible. Just seems weird.
>911 call timing
They called only a few times each day at similar times, never tried to call at night, never tried to send an SMS which could actually have worked out for them and they had been texting their family a lot prior.
I do think it's very possible there was no violent crime involved and they simply got lost and died of exposure and injuries. But I don't think it explains some things like the nighttime pics. Using the flash to track a noise for 3 hours? Taking a picture of Kris' head (who was almost certainly dead by then) among other things?
>Using the flash to track a noise for 3 hours?
It's a proven fact that if you light a flash in pitch black night you go temporarily blind. I could understand one try, not 3h of same place photoshoot. Also the photos are mostly in focus and taken by a firm hand
>Taking a picture of Kris' head (who was almost certainly dead by then) among other things?
I'm not so sure about that anymore after seeing this
>I'm not so sure about that anymore after seeing this
>509 deleted by the girls themselves (probably lewds) before the real trouble started (or possibly after, embarrassment is a helluva drug even when facing death)
Kek, that file could be deleted only from a PC, and it was canceled after the night pics were taken. Various experts tested the same camera model and it's been proven you can't completely erase a pic from the device, and that if you take a pic after the one you delete the numerical succession continues as it never existed. >and photo shopping is basically based on 'trust me bro i can tell from the pixels"
Yeah, explain picrel then genius
Yeah I've thought about this too, it's pretty strange. Assuming it's really an edit, someone would still have had to crop that image and shuffle it among the others. Why? To create the impression Kris and Lisanne were together at the time the picture appeared to be "taken"? You can't even tell if she's alive or dead from the crop.
>Why? To create the impression Kris and Lisanne were together at the time the picture appeared to be "taken"?
That's what I find really weird. No cop on earth would put all this effort to get a really obvious fake.
>You can't even tell if she's alive or dead from the crop.
Yeah, the night pictures in general are taken to avoid any body part or personal effect showing in them. Idk if intentionally or not.
I've read a theory about them being captured by someone and then left severely injured into a dump on the 8th night. That could explain the weird pattern of the night photos depicting the same place from the same pov (picrel)
I would assume that a killer in the woods would find that their being in the woods was cover enough. I mean, if you're retarded enough to embroil yourself in the disappearance of multiple people, I doubt you would put so much effort into creating what is essentially an unreliable alibi
That's what I think too, all this effort in messing up the proofs seems more a serial killer modus operandi to fuck with the police, but it's even more unlikely
>post pic unrelated to obvious manipulation of the night pic with the hair
>gotcha!!!
Several photos appear to be modified according to data analysis, not just muh pixels
He said photoshopping is basically based on
>trust me bro i can tell from the pixels
That image is clearly modified based on non retardation.
Ok, my bad not noticing
was referring to
Higher res of the collage? Looks schizo at this resolution.
>I could understand one try, not 3h of same place photoshoot
Spooky noises in the dark, she was trying to keep an animal away or something.
Plausible.
Why are you such denial that they were killed by browns?
I'm not denying that browns could have killed them. But simply saying "browns did it" explains NOTHING and is borderline off topic because the point of this thread is to explain the anomalies of the case, which are conveniently ignored by every retard spamming "browns did it".
Even then it's just one theory out of many. I think it's more likely that they got lost and died of injuries and exposure.
OP thinks this is some paranormal happenings.
Most of the thread thinks it just rape and murder.
Op here, I'm not thinking of anything in particular, just pointing out that this is a weird ass cold case which is still a mistery after 10 years. Saying "hurr durr it's le brown retarded rapists" doesn't explain how the fuck they did it. All those retards ITT don't know anything about this and are just repeating cringe memes. They don't understand the point.
too many /misc/ posters on this board lately. here's a creepy pic from the pianista trail.
This is just Sicily's flag, from a sicilian restaurant menu. "Il pianista" means the "piano player" and has nothing to do with Panama
It's a restaurant near the base of the trail. The trail is called "El Pianista". The restaurant is Italian, hence the Italian play on words "el" being "il" in Italian.
what do we think the missing photo (509?) was?
Assuming that the other edited pics had someone photoshopped out of them, which seems fairly plausible: 509 probably showed/incriminated someone else in the pic with the girls in a way that would make it impossible to photoshop out.
Keep in mind we don't know when 509 would have been taken, it could be anytime between evening April 1st and midnight April 8th. It could've been a picture of Kris' dead body after she died or was killed around April 5th or something.
Those clouds are not an issue -- have you never been outside? "It's cloudy over there but not over THERE" is a thing that happens.
I'm going to give my two cents, and I hope you guys give more theories on what happen instead of just talking about the cover up, which is a given.
First, the cover up was done most likely to keep tourist coming to the place. If people know that there are bands of rapist in the jungle, boom, no turism, no money. Better make it seem like some outlandish case with conflicting evidence.
Now, the other theory that I remember. The girls were being guided by a dog from a local family as far as I recall. It's very possible that the dog went inside the woods and the girls frantically searched for it fearing losing the dog and having to confront the family later. Due to this they went deep into the forest, where they got lost. The dog actually came back alone, and the girls:
A) Got found by some guys and used as cock sleeves until they got bored and killed them
B) Succumbed to the elements
There was supposedly a big rope made of metal I think that people use to get to the other side of some place inside that area. Some people speculate that these girls tried to get across during bad weather, one fell down and injured herself, or downright died. The other one was using her cellphone to illuminate the place in search for her friend. Once again, she could have been found by some local rapists and the same result.
Another, more simple explanation, is that they didn't knew the terrain very well and one of them fell downhill on some steep place and injured herself or died. Same development as the last paragraph after the other girl was trying to locate her lost friend.
Girls rarely go deep inna woods without males accompanying them.
I just have a really hard time seeing two white girls going more than 300ft into the woods off an unmarked path ... unless there were some locals guiding them.
If local dog gets lost, what would make more sense? Run deep inna woods, or tell the locals that their stupid dog ran off into the woods.
is there an album with all the photos? id like to take a look
Some anon linked it here
wtf there was someone behind her, the blog doesnt even mention it, the blur behind her is in shape of a larger person, right?
Just looks like pareidolia to me.
u sure?
Yeah, like another anon pointed, they are crappy pics from almost two decades years ago
You can actually see the same blurry man-shaped effect on front of her if you focus enough.
By that I mean it's just pareidolia, not that she was sandwiched between two otherworldly entities of course
anon, i meant to point out a bad removal job of a real person, not a transparent entity…
Could it be you're used to HD pics and can't conceive phones used to take pics under 1000px?
Was the crazy scary angry guy from thrive that looked like he lost gangster money a thousand times just at my front door? He poofed though.
I love the paranormal and spooky shit and all that but there's many of you in this thread looking for something that just isn't there in this one. Let's all just take a nice nap and stop thinking about it.
Unrelated, can I interest you in a vacation package to lovely Panama? It's one of the safest countries in South America you know!
>guys it's nothing guys it was just normal rape and murder guys nothing paranormal
that picture really freaks me out
Yeah wtf why is that pic so unsettling
She's just messing around
Probably trying to improve the mood
https://voyager.lupomesky.cz/kremers-froon/kris-gully-3composite.jpg
cant embed because file size limit and im too lazy but shes clearly doing a funny salute/shade her face from the sun and sticking her tongue out
Wtf. Where did you find that full resolution photo? Are there more of these?
Anon it's AI. The blurry pic is the real resolution.
Why the hands behind the back? why that strange and specific expression on his face? Gives me vibes of some occult shit that might be going on
Yeah see
I shouldn't have laughed but I did.
Put it that way, it could be she's possessed or the like and she's turning against the girl taking the picture. Nice B-movie jumpscare moment
It was mafia-esque trafficking shit and the authorities were in on it.
>be attractive white female
>go to a third would country
>get killed (and possibly raped)
What’s the mystery?
Isn’t this a brownoid “person”’s forehead among the night pics? You can see his curly hair. Why is no one talking about it?
finger half over camera being lit up by flash with terrain or trees in the background, not a persons forehead lol
Theres a video of the parents and they stop at a T junction and they ask "whats down there" pointing clearly at a trail going through the bushes only to quickly get moved on and told they are mistaken.
Parents fault for not having expendable cash, if that happened to my kids I would have a blackwater delta team armed to the teeth with thermal combing that area at night + an actually good PI + a female pro to act as bait if possible until I found out what happened.
I would scorch earth... but the parents just gave up.
This. We haven't gotten into the family angle yet, what information do we have about the family? did they traveled there to help with the search? Did they go there after the bodies were found?did they even go there at all? What was their impression of the investigation that took place? Did they comment on any suspicions against the official version? Or did they lose all interest in solving the mystery once the deaths were confirmed? It's weird considering the info on the altered photos, if it happened to a close relative of mine I'd be pissed to say the least...
They flew out about a week after they went AWOL and helped with the search and returned multiple times I think. IRC one family laid it to rest and said they got lost and gave up, the other family thinks foul play but are out of avenues of recourse. All parties seem to think the Panama authorities bungled the case (esp the lead prosecutor).
Alright so someone said that body parts were found. Wouldn’t a forensics expert be able to tell if the dismemberment was done with a sharp object (which would be proof that they were murdered)?
Anyone?
Well that's the other thing that's interesting about this case, is that it shares similarities with other missing persons cases which are mysterious: in that some of the body parts are just found hanging in trees (like the pelvis, if I remember correctly). And then the feet are in the shoes still and everything, yadda yadda.
How does that work? Someone is chemically bleaching the bones and then hanging them in trees? There is something at work here, there is some kind of thing eating people. That's all there is to it.
But someone said they haven’t found tooth marks. A forensics doctor would be able to tell if a foot was chopped with a sharp object right? Archeological studies do this all the time with bones far more ancient than these to determine the cause of death.
Ah but not all the bones were even recovered. I mean, honestly, if we want to entertain the idea that something ate them that's paranormal there could be all sorts of explanations, like extremely sharp teeth. It could have been eating them when they took the pictures.
They could have been part of some kind of ritual.
Or both of those options, maybe the townspeople are connected in some way to this thing.
This one is tantalising. There's so many gaps and I really want to stress that I don't think we will ever come to a substantive conclusion about these poor ladies' last days. The most measured response is to give brevity and thought to likely scenarios. It's basically unsolvable. But anyway.
The condition of the back pack doesn't necessarily mean human intervention. I've left belongings in forests and wetlands for years and so long as you pick a place that avoids the obvious flow of the water (obvious from positioning and flourishing of local flora and root indentations of trees) or away from ground water they just won't rot. Even in a rain forest there are places where a back pack will not rot due to environmental moisture. Nylon can last for years without decaying. At worst, it will weaken, dry and be flake due to sun exposure.
The camera could have been tampered with. But, more likely it was accidental. The girls trajectory or chartered course would not likely have taken them far from routes known to tourist agencies or locals. If the camera, likely configured in their own language, was accessed by someone who found it on or near a trail (who probably considered it's monetary value not it's forensic value) they make have deleted photos by accident. Locals or police may have done this, or locals connected to the police. To cover up their accident they may have fumbled, but this doesn't strictly make them implicit in the girls deaths. Misadventure is the far more likely culprit. Have you ever tried even purchasing a train ticket in a foreign language? Using your phone in a foreign language. All the buttons are in the same place but without the language cue you are bound to make mistakes.
I think the girls mistook the length of the journey. Coming from Europe and being financially comfortable enough to travel they picked a climate and environment that they weren't familiar with or acclimated to. They dun goofed.
So the idea here is that they had already looked over the place where the backpack was.
>they make have deleted photos by accident. Locals or police may have done this, or locals connected to the police
The Dutch cops were the ones doing the forensic data recovery though. They said that the missing photo was not just deleted but overwritten so as to be unrecoverable. To do this, you have to physically bring the memory card, plug it into a PC and use specialized software to shred the file, and then they'd have had to bring it / the camera back and put it back in the backpack. Doesn't make any sense. There's no way it was just a stupid mistake done by curious locals.
>not all the bones were even recovered.
But at least a foot was recovered inside a show right? Is it such an outlandish thing for forensics to determine how the foot was separated from the body, if sawed, or chopped, or broken off, or bitten off, or blown off, which could help solve the case? I don't think so. So why didn't they? Why nobody talks about this? Isn't the family at least curious?
>how the foot was separated from the body, if sawed, or chopped, or broken off, or bitten off, or blown off
Neither of those things, it doesn't show signs of violence except broken bones inside and a previous chronic inflammation.
>the weird night pictures taken a week later where just them attempting to gain any sorta visibility while escaping through the jungle at night with no equipment and then whatever happens happened....
Remember that those pics were taken all from the same place (literally the same spot) for 3 hours straight. Flashing a light in pitch black night without moon gives you tempotary blindness, doesn't help to see around at all. There were no elicopters patrolling the area and surely not during night. Flashing would also be risky if they were escaping, but it's not very useful to signal your position either because the jungle trees stop the light after only a few meters.
Here, it's quite convincing that the spot is the same and the photographer isn't moving at all
Possible location of the night pictures, just found it on google, idk the if the source is reliable. The rock comparison is quite right I admit
Alright guys hear me out
>they're with brown dudes who are related to local mafia
>during the hike they start acting creepy
>girls end up running randomly in the forest
>they fall down a cliff
>one of them is down, one phone lost
>second one stays nearby, tries to contact help with remaining phone, doesn't have PIN
>at night she freaks out and tries to scare away an animal with flash
>brown dudes/mafia ends up finding them
>they pick up both girls
>removes brown dudes from camera
>do whatever with the girls
>time passes
>real investigation starts
>mafia doesn't want any trouble
>mafia is buddies with local authority
>throw what remains of the girls at random so they give up on the search
Does it seem plausible?
>>at night she freaks out and tries to scare away an animal with flash
Only on the 8th night?
dudes/mafia ends up finding them
Only after 8 days? And they kept the backpack with all personal effects only to leave it after a couple months to be found? How many km did the girls run into the forest?
8 days is how long mafia browns take to find you. You ever read a book
Maybe the brown dudes captured them immediately, kept them for a week, and then they fell down a cliff?
This is the most convincing, but then I don't explain how the girls kept calling 911 only at certain hours of the day. Did they have the phines still wiylth them and the guard was off during that time? Could be
>the girls kept calling 911 only at certain hours of the day
Can you remind me if only one phone made the calls? You're saying they were calling for the first week, right?
>You're saying they were calling for the first week, right?
Yes, but I don't remember if they used only one phone or both. For sure at a certain point the (remaining?) girl or a third party couldn't access the phone anymore because there were several attempts with wrong pin
>they kept the backpack with all personal effects only to leave it after a couple months to be found?
How often do you clean up your rape shed anon?
Idk anon, but a brown would probably take the 88 dollars and trash the rest together with the bodies right? Or do you think the browns are somewhat capable of 4d chess playing?
If they're mafia related they're above the random farmer and can act with planning. They could have been high IQ enough to know taking the money meant foul play, or like another anon mentioned, people do stupid meaningless shit trying to cover themselves.
The fact the dudes disappeared one by one after the fact is mafia-ish to me.
This is likely. Barring all the stuff that makes this the mystery that it still is.
>all the stuff
Can you list it so I can think about it some more?
It's been a while since I have read the blog posted above.
>one of them is down, one phone lost
This did not happen because the first phone "was lost" (ran out of battery) after 4 days. On the 5th day in the morning there was one more successful PIN entry and 2 hours later was the first incorrect PIN.
If things had happened how you describe them, they would've been with these creepy brown dudes for 4 days, hungry and severely dehydrated, before running and getting injured. Then the night flash photos took place 3 more days after that.
The rest of what you describe isn't completely implausible but there's just no way the story really began like this.
OK here is my new theory
>they're with brown dudes who are related to local mafia
>during the hike they kidnap the girls
>they accidentally (?) kill one of the girls early
>throw both girls in a rape shed,
>strip the one that is still alive of everything,
>just throw the second one in a corner with her bloody stuff
>for a week, the girl still alive tries to use her dead friend's phone
>she manages to escape the rape shed with some of her stuff
>couldn't get her own phone
>but she still has dead friend's phone
>she falls down a cliff
>breaks some bones
>cries and camera flashes and wrong PIN
>brown guys find her
>make her disappear
>real investigation starts
>mafia doesn't want any trouble
>buddies with local authorities
>they use the only good computer around (police's) to remove brown dudes from camera
>throw what remains of the girls at random
>try to make it look like weird freak accident
>kill off the only guys who know what really happened
Better?
>>but she still has dead friend's phone
Doesn't even need to be true. She just needs to run away with the camera. To prove what happened.
The removed pic was taken in the rape shed while the guys weren't looking.
Ok now we have very similar theories
. Some doubts about this for me:
guys find her
>>make her disappear
Why the difference in body "treatment"?
>>they use the only good computer around (police's) to remove brown dudes from camera
Why not just telling everyone the memory card got corrupted instead of pulling all this shit? (Of course, brown retards, but anyway....)
>Why the difference in body "treatment"?
One girl died a week before the other?
I think when/if the living girl escaped, they definitely had gotten rid of the first body the mafia way.
Only one girl bones had limestone bleaching treatment. Like only one of them was dismembered by mafia
>Why not just telling everyone the memory card got corrupted instead of pulling all this shit?
It's between just doing whatever comes to mind to cover themselves regardless of whether it's smart or not, and trying their best to turn it into a total mystery.
I know it's speculation, but it requires a lot of work to photoshop all those pics, only to get a poor gain for the cover up.
>be brown mafia cop
>girls lost in jungle narration to push
>find only bones in the jungle
Or
>find perfectly fine backpack with functioning camera, mysterious pics in it and a lot of work to erase all evidence from it.
Not the most instinctual nor intellectual choice here, it's straight up psycho behaviour. And that brings my theory variation: what if there's a serial killer connection? And he did all the weird stuff? Someone found dismembered (by human) dogs near the area
>during the hike they kidnap the girls
They kidnapped them but let both of them make 911 calls for 3 days?
>they accidentally (?) kill one of the girls early
Specifically on day 5 between ~11am and ~1pm.
>throw both girls in a rape shed
That would have had to be hidden in the forest somewhere because they never got cell reception at any point, so they never left the forest.
Also if she got thrown in a rape shed why would she not take any pictures of it using the camera? Why didn't she spend any time stuck inside the shed to try to write a message or journal anything that was happening to her?
>just throw the second one in a corner with her bloody stuff
Why would they let her keep any of her stuff in the shed? That makes zero sense, especially if they were actually mafia related, they wouldn't be that stupid.
>cries and camera flashes
Why?? If she was on the run from mafia browns, the last thing she'd want to do is attract their attention with useless camera flashes that leave her blind when she's also immobile.
Also, the phone was not used at all on the night the pictures were taken. The last time it had been used was 2 days prior and the next (and last) time it would be turned on was 3 days after the camera incident.
>they use the only good computer around (police's) to remove brown dudes from camera
Why the fuck would they give the camera back though? They could've just returned the phones and destroyed the camera, destroying all incriminating evidence. The phones alone prove absolutely nothing, it's the camera evidence that makes shit really weird. Why would they bother making a couple shitty and obvious photoshops and then intentionally release them when they knew the Dutch cops were alerady on their case? Again, that's not just retarded, that's insane.
It's one of the more reasonable theories but still fails to explain everything.
>They kidnapped them but let both of them make 911 calls for 3 days?
Girls managed to keep their phones for that duration
>Specifically on day 5 between ~11am and ~1pm
When kidnappers find out phones have been used, they kill one of the girls
>That would have had to be hidden in the forest somewhere because they never got cell reception at any point, so they never left the forest
Sure
>Also if she got thrown in a rape shed why would she not take any pictures of it using the camera? Why didn't she spend any time stuck inside the shed to try to write a message or journal anything that was happening to her?
She did take a picture of the rape shed, she escaped with camera, fell down a cliff, used camera not to go insane in the dark
>Why would they let her keep any of her stuff in the shed? That makes zero sense, especially if they were actually mafia related, they wouldn't be that stupid
Phones hidden up their vagenes for all I know. Even if they didn't let the girls keep anything; she could have grabbed something during her escape
>Why?? If she was on the run from mafia browns, the last thing she'd want to do is attract their attention with useless camera flashes that leave her blind when she's also immobile
Just going insane from the previous week and breaking half your bones when you finally escape the rape shed
>Also, the phone was not used at all on the night the pictures were taken. The last time it had been used was 2 days prior and the next (and last) time it would be turned on was 3 days after the camera incident
She escaped with camera but not with phone then
(1/2)
>Why the fuck would they give the camera back though?
This one I don't know. Could be just humans being random and not autistically rational the way we are.
Like anon said, guard shifts.
Camera was dropped somewhere nearby and escaping girl could have had grabbed it and snapped a picture of the shed's location before escaping
Op here, NTA:
>hungry and severely dehydrated
Not if they were fed by their kidnappers
>Then the night flash photos took place 3 more days after that.
Not sure why. What if only one of the girls escaped after 3 days her friend was already dead or taken by kidnappers to another place? That would explain the difference in bones (the bleached one was the first killed, the other one escaped and fell into the pit where she took the night photos before passing out)
Coroner report said no visible macro or microscopic wear marks of any type were found on the bones, they seemed impossibly cleanly separated. Evidence of phosphorus use (possibly lye?) on one skeleton and a mismatched decomposition timeline for the other. Coroner was apparently strong armed and psyopped in the press by the lead prosecutor (many irregularities with her).
Don’t go alone innawoods was the moral of the story of so many fairy tales (they were in fact cautionary tales) But we stopped reading our girls fairy tales because they’re politically incorrect, racists, etc. Two beautiful girls. So sad.
So, you are very lucky I am in this board tonight. I have studied this case the most among any missing person's cases. The amount of things that doesn't add up is staggering, as others have pointed out.
It's why it's here -- on the paranormal board. This, of all cases, really should be.
But to explore why -- I want to first bring your attention to the picture posted in OP. This was the LAST picture taken BEFORE the night time pics.
What is most notable about it, is WHY was it taken? Not, WHAT is in the photograph, but WHY would they stop and take a picture of some trees, a seemingly dead end in the forest?
What I want you to understand, is that there are a lot of hidden stuff in the woods, and it is known that there could be all sorts of tunnels going on, but if you take a look at this picture you can SEE wired structures in the trees... there is something that looks like a SPINE RIGHT above her.
Tell me that doesn't scare the shit out of you. WHAT is that? WHY does her face look like this? The expression is blank and flat.
Finally, we do know that Drugs can connect you to things...
The night before all of this they were at a party. Whatever they took, it may have brought them closer to something that would make them a sacrifice. Something that would eat, torture, or rape them.
It is time to wisen up, we know for a FACT that the locals would support this kind of thing, if they had ties to some kind of primeval entities in the woods, or underground, even if it was just a ritualistic murder, this was certainly something dark going on under everyone's noses.
Yeah there is some weird looking thing to her left, looks almost like a giant arm
>What I want you to understand, is that there are a lot of hidden stuff in the woods, and it is known that there could be all sorts of tunnels going on, but if you take a look at this picture you can SEE wired structures in the trees... there is something that looks like a SPINE RIGHT above her.
Says this to us...doesn't post pic he's on about..lol
>your theories
I went balls deep into this after someone posted a link to some blog
Idk how legit the info on there is but apparently there was a lot of shit overlooked
Best I could do
>cell phone data leads me to believe they got separated at some point
>one of them likely got hurt and the other went for help, got lost, kidnapped, etc.
reason for (from memory)
>it showed separate GPS pings for only ONE of the cellphones
>that cellphone had repeatedly been locked out because of failed passcode attempts
>yet they still dialed the Dutch emergency number
Some drug running psychos in the jungle wouldn’t know the Dutch number for 9-1-1
I think a lot of the photos from the camera were then tired, exhausted, frantically looking for landmarks in a jungle
Or they were using the flash for light (because cellphone pings showed their phones had been repeatedly turned off and on)
They got lost as fuck and definitely died. The really, really sketchy part was how their remains were found. Bones don’t just wash clean in water. Not in that short of a time.
Something definitely happened to them. Bodies don’t just disintegrate.
>cell phone data leads me to believe they got separated at some point
Either they got separated or Kris actually died. 1 or 2 days before this happened Lisanne's phone ran out of battery and died, she continued using Kris' phone after but didn't know the PIN. It's weird that she would try to unlock it to the point of locking out though, not only is that not necessary to call emergency, but she made it impossible to use other features of the phone like SMS. It looks desperate, like the consequences didn't matter to her anymore. Which makes me think Kris was actually dead, so if Lisanne couldn't guess the PIN, no one would be getting into the phone ever again.
>yet they still dialed the Dutch emergency number
Only during the first 2 days. I was excited to see you post this because I thought I'd missed something but sadly it doesn't prove much. On day 3 they only tried 911 and only once, and since then they never tried to call again.
>Bones don’t just wash clean in water.
There were also no signs of abrasion on the bones, which would've occurred if they'd been dragged by the river.
Let's play. I tawt I taw a guy at the front door.
Oh cool. The least interesting "mystery" from that thread got its own thread.
I think it's interesting that the prevailing story is that one of the girls got hurt while they were both walking off the trail and in the confusion they got lost in the jungle.
you can look at this guy's blog about that very trail with lots of pictures. The trail is quite well defined and the surrounding jungle is quite thick.
https://www.journeyera.com/el-pianista-trail-boquete/
which logically leads me to this article about how common sense for most people unprepared to go on an off trail expedition into the jungle would probably NOT go off the trail for any reason, especially if the nature highly discourages you from doing it with slopes, dense vegetation, and mud.
https://imperfectplan.com/2020/09/01/nobody-walks-off-trail-in-the-jungle-wearing-shorts/
another thing I think is interesting is the picture of the girls hair. that picture was taken something like 7 days into them being "lost" in the jungle.. and yet, its so clean and beautiful? No dirt? No leaves or twigs of plants? Not all stuck together from water or being oily from going (likely more than) 7 days without a shower?
I highly encourage reading some of the people's comments below the imperfectplan article... some cool insights and the author interacts with the commenters a lot leading to even more knowledge.
There was this man who lived in the woods, they got lost and he led them to some cabin and killed them
I think one of the girls got injured or something they used the flash from the camera to catch the eye of helicopters looking for them
No elicopters during the night tho
Was this really the last picture taken? It was taken after the one of just her hair?
>1997 Megaritual held in Asia
pls expand upon this
Whole thread was derailed by one homosexual
~~*you*~~?
These ladies probably got honeypotted by some local dudes connected to a cartel of somekind and ended up kidnapped and the weird night pictures taken a week later where just them attempting to gain any sorta visibility while escaping through the jungle at night with no equipment and then whatever happens happened....if they were kidnapped by a cartel they probably weren't under all that much surveillance because it was believed "what are these two white women gonna do? Just run away into the scary jungle" but then they did
Duendes
I hope they were kidnapped and made to endure hell before being killed
>pretty white girls go to brown country
>end up disappearing
whats the mestery?
I think we should all consider the possibility that BigFoot was involved. BigFeet do traditionally team up with teams of human rapists and chances are BigFoot even joined in. The transdimensional powers of the BigFoot could account for the deletion of the photos from the camera. Also the photos that depicted nothing could have been the girls attempting to take photos of the BigFoot that gang raped them.
The pelvis split in half could be evidence of gigantic BigFoot dick just absolutely tearing up their terrified Dutch poontangs. Missing bones are explained by Bigfoot partially eating the victims, before, during or after the gang rape. The human participants problem roasted BigFoot and claimed he took it too far. Could explain why they were never found because BigFoot killed/raped/ate all the humans involved. ??? I dunno it seems just as likely as anything else. Oh and the backpack being left behind is standard BigFoot behaviour. BigFoot only wears Prada. Upon recognising the bag as Kmart brand it was likely left behind.
what stands out to me is their lack of text attempts or logging their peril in any form or fashion. My assumption would be that there was someone else with them - preventing them from making their attempting at getting help obvious. As if they were trying to call for help, while trying to hide it from someone.
Typical BigFoot predation behaviour.
The phone that lost its battery first must have been iOS lol.
Imagine if I had to depend on this crap battery to save my life.
It was the samsung actually. The ishit's battery lasted for 10 days, although for 7 out of those 10 it was only turned on for brief periods to check for signal.
The calls only took place between day 1 and day 3, after that no more calls were placed. There were about 2 calls a day on average, both phones were used and both 112 and 911 were called. On the third day only 911 was called a single time.
This is problematic news. Anon
, we should restart from the beginning...
>for a couple days girls hid their phones somewhere and only used them when guards weren't around
>eventually guys took phone/they ran out of battery
>kill one of the girl to teach them a lesson
>remaining girl so freaked out she manages to escape with camera a couple days later
>>for a couple days girls hid their phones somewhere and only used them when guards weren't around
For 6 days straight at almost the exact same time every day without missing a beat?
That's actually in favour of the guard shift theory.
Why leave the camera if they discovered the phones? Still not 100% sure about that, but this is definitely my favourite theory right now
>That's actually in favour of the guard shift theory.
It explains the how but not the why. After day 3 they kept turning on the phones (twice a day) but didn't actually make any calls. Why would they even use the phones to check for signal if they hadn't moved at all during that time? And if they had moved places in the meantime, why did the guards shift almost perfectly at the same time every day but only during the first half of the day and not later? It just seems weird, yeah it's not impossible but it's really weird. What would they have been trying to accomplish?
>Girls managed to keep their phones for that duration
For 5 days specifically. It's possible Lisanne kept Kris' phone even longer after that because something happened to Kris after day 5, but that doesn't mean the phone was taken away.
>When kidnappers find out phones have been used, they kill one of the girls
They killed the girl but didn't take the phone away, because the phone usage pattern stayed the exact same even on day 6, after Kris had become incapable of unlocking the pin, presumably because she was the one killed. That's a really weird decision.
The rest is pretty reasonable. So we're assuming the deleted pic 509 was of the rape shed.
I dunno anon it looks like a brown skeleton hanging in the trees but I'm pretty sure that's not in fact what it really was.
Or am I? I don't even know anymore. This case is fucking crazy.
>why did the guards shift almost perfectly at the same time every day but only during the first half of the day and not later?
Could have been two guards changing places once a day.
>What would they have been trying to accomplish?
They tried to call for help when there wasn't any people around (only during the changing of the guard)
Love how everyone is sure brown people committed a crime. Lol
They could be blue the facts we do have would look the same.
The negro torso gore.
We have done this.
What reward is there for us?
Alright another try
>they're with brown dudes related to local mafia
>at some point a guy is holding the camera
>first girl gets kidnapped while the second girl is ahead and not looking
>last picture of girl looking worried is taken by guy
>both girls are sent to rape shed in the jungle nearby
>somehow they managed to keep a hold of their phones
>during guard shifts or lunches they discreetly try to call 911
>after a few days, dudes find out about phones, kill one girl
>second girl freaks out hard and plans her escape
>when stench becomes awful they get rid of first body chemically after fucking it for a couple days
>girl escapes with camera left around by guys
>she snatches a pic of the rape shed
>she falls down a cliff and breaks half her bones
>goes insane in the dark from the jungle noise, flashes away imaginary monster
>they eventually find her
>because of her broken bones they get rid of her on the spot hastily
>mafia ask police what to do
>keep in mind everyone is panicky and uneducated
>at this point they really think they will get caught
>they decide to make it look as weird and confusing as possible
>police uses the town's only computer to completely delete rape shed pic
>guys involved are killed off
>investigation starts
>they throw what's left of the girls around to make the search stop
Also if you've read the full thing, like another anon said, the search was half-assed as fuck by the police, probably because the rape shed wasn't far from the trail.
>half-assed as fuck by the police
As in, they didn't bring dogs with them.
>first girl gets kidnapped while the second girl is ahead and not looking
Not looking or listening or anything else. I'll give this a pass because there were streams of water and shit but still. For the last hour of camera photoshooting all pictures were taken only of Kris and not Lisanne, but she faced the camera numerous times, so if it was a mafia brown taking the pics, she'd have noticed unless they only kidnapped Lisanne just before the last pic. Not impossible but not likely either.
I think this whole idea of one of the guys taking the last pic(s) is a red herring, frankly.
>during guard shifts or lunches they discreetly try to call 911
These timeframes only cover the pattern of Kris' phone checking for signal twice daily. She made a call outside of those timeframes too and Lisanne did the same all the time every day until her phone died on day 4.
>after a few days, dudes find out about phones, kill one girl
They killed her for using her phone but didn't take her phone away and left Lisanne free to use it again. I just refuse to believe they'd let that happen. Surely this wasn't the first time they'd killed someone.
>girl escapes with camera left around by guys
This is one day after the killing of Kris. Lisanne takes the camera which she happens to find somewhere but not the phone she'd already been using every day. Why?
>she falls down a cliff and breaks half her bones
Just nothing that this happened anywhere between immediately after her escape and 2 days after.
>goes insane in the dark from the jungle noise, flashes away imaginary monster
She survived the first night in this environment just fine.
The camera flashes weren't completely haphazard either, some pictures show some strange red fabric or whatever shit placed on a rock. Does it mean anything?
(1/2)
>Not looking or listening or anything else. I
Yes lot of noise in the jungle, if you walk far enough ahead you can't hear whoever is behind you on a trail
>if it was a mafia brown taking the pics, she'd have noticed
At first the guys were friendly, girls thought they were hanging out with locals, so giving away camera for pics made sense to them
>made a call outside of those timeframes too and Lisanne did the same all the time every day
We would have to assume they somehow managed to hide those phones very well OR the guys knew there was no reception and didn't bother taking them away because they're psychos like that
>killed her for using her phone but didn't take her phone away and left Lisanne free to use it again
You guys are right about this, I think they were separated and somehow one girl only had her friend's phone without the PIN code at this point
A girl was either killed then or when the other one escaped
>takes the camera which she happens to find somewhere but not the phone she'd already been using every day
She could have had the phone with no battery left
>some strange red fabric or whatever shit placed on a rock
Either debris from a nearby river (she fell on rocks) or something she made for future investigation (the former is more likely to me)
True, it is indeed weird they doctored the pic and then gave away the camera
Bone and feet are from body that got properly dissolved on mafia ground, the parts they threw away so the investigation would stop
Honestly I fully expect some random mafia kidnappers not to think properly about what they should and should not destroy, they didn't have months to think it through or anything
>Bone and feet are from body that got properly dissolved on mafia ground
No, the foot is from Lisanne, the girl who supposedly escaped. Also they found a part of her skin and it wasn't showing much decomposition too. While they found only (bleached) bones from Kris (the redhead who probably died first whose phone got wrong pin numbers)
It really depends on what happened when they found Lisanne. Did they chop her up on the spot, did they bring her back and killed her to shup her up, did they killed her before bringing her body (parts?) back somewhere hidden, only throwing the investigation a bone later?
Good point, I'll keep it in mind. You're saying it's possible the camera covered more days/things but we know 911 was called and if they had not been kidnapped no picture would have disappeared at all
>old digital camera quality doesn't cause the proportions of one half of your body to be wrong nor should it introduce blending artifacts around your arm
I'm saying they absolutely can. Thinking pictures can't look weird on their own is kinda autistic (which I can relate to)
>when they had 2 victims in their rape shed they were totally calm and calculating?
What makes you think this?
>after they hid the backpack in the forest again, it would take 2 months for it to be discovered
Do we have this timeline? Did the backpack spend 2 months out in the open? Or was it thrown away 2 months later to show investigators the girls were probably dead in a ditch somewhere
> it'd be impossible for them to survive that long alone in a jungle with no water or food
This is our westerner opinion. They didn't think of this because *they can* survive in the jungle easily.
>>when they had 2 victims in their rape shed they were totally calm and calculating?
>What makes you think this?
Your claim that they let the girls keep their phones because they knew they had nothing to worry about. Sounds pretty calm and calculating to me, if it's true.
>Do we have this timeline? Did the backpack spend 2 months out in the open? Or was it thrown away 2 months later to show investigators the girls were probably dead in a ditch somewhere
We know the backpack was found by some locals 2 months after the girls went missing. We don't know how long it had been there, it was dry and only a bit dirty and frayed, the damage wasn't too bad. It could've been there for a few weeks maybe. I doubt it was the full 2 months, which cements the fact that whoever manipulated the evidence was not acting in a hurry.
>This is our westerner opinion. They didn't think of this because *they can* survive in the jungle easily.
Yeah but they would've also been extra careful leaving any evidence behind because they knew the Dutch cops were on the case with their eurowhitoid eyes peeled. It doesn't take a PhD in anthropology to realize that two white college girls won't survive a week in a jungle with literally no resources. Again, they were deliberately planting falsified evidence according to your theory, so surely they didn't neglect to consider this detail if they were already taking things this far.
>calm and calculating
How about just psychos? We're saying a girl managed to escape so they're not the best at it.
>dry and only a bit dirty and frayed, the damage wasn't too bad
Probably didn't spend a lot of time outside and was only thrown away along with whatever they had left when the investigation happened to make the foreigners fuck off (it told the non-corrupt investigators that they were most probably looking for dead bodies now)
>How about just psychos? We're saying a girl managed to escape so they're not the best at it.
Sure, regarding the phone in rape shed theory, I believe you it's possible. But I'm still absolutely convinced they must have had complete control over the process of creating and spreading the faked evidence if the local cops were complicit, so there's no reason why they would've fucked it up so badly. Keep in mind this backpack is literally the only reason why this thread exists at all and why people are still talking about this case 10 years later. They could've simply not put it out there and I'm sure that's what any criminal looking to avoid getting caught would've done.
My theory is that the cops were only involved in the cover up later, when the shed dudes thought they had fucked up royally and were at risk of being found.
I think the idea was that dropping the remains in the jungle would stop the official investigation. They might have not thought as much about online sleuths.
The bones stopped the investigation though, not the backpack. The backpack just gave the case notoriety among the public.
Who do you think planted the backpack, the cops or the thugs themselves? Because I'm pretty sure whoever did it had to be the same party that doctored the images and deleted #509. Otherwise they'd be planting incriminating evidence that could've compromised them completely.
Guide F is def involved, he pops up over and over again. Was supposed to take them on the Pianista, related to the owner of the ranch at the end of the trail, participated in the search and rescue, was the one that found a lot of the remains, turned in the backpack after some villagers 'gave it to him'.
I bet everyone knows exactly what happened but shuts the fuck up not to get killed.
The doctored camera was used to give a lot of weight to the theory that they simply got lost. Because what the camera shows is two white girls getting lost in the jungle.
The police probably was able to do the editing but anyone could have planted the backpack.
What the camera shows is two girls getting lost in the jungle and doing weird shit after apparently surviving for an oddly long time. When combined with the phone evidence from the same backpack, it shows that the whole thing happened under really fucking weird and unexplainable circumstances that point to something happening other then just two white girls getting lost alone.
So I gotta keep asking, if this is not just a freak incident and someone else was in fact involved, possibly killed them, why would they willingly release this information? I gotta ask this doubly so if they were some kind of local organized crime group. This could've cost them everything.
There are still no hard proof someone was involved, which was considered enough by the perps, I think.
The proof is in the camera. Someone definitely fucked with the camera contents. The erased image 509 is hard evidence of tampering.
And that's how our killers get caught, right? They messed up. Either didn't expect the doctoring to be obvious, or felt like, showing the jungle pictures as if no foul play was clearly involved, was valuable enough to take that risk.
They're in bumfuck nowhere and the police is in their pocket.
They're never getting caught. But there is evidence of foul play with the investigation and it's hard to explain why this evidence exists and hasn't simply been destroyed along with #509. That's all we know for sure.
I gotta go but it's been fun. We could have a follow-up thread to this.
I just think the camera is where they actually messed up.
It had to be handled in such a way that no conclusive proof one way or the other was ever found, but enough questions were left that normal people get over stimulated by it and shut it out. The single most important thing from the government/police POV is that the tourism money must continue to flow. What we ended up with is the best situation they could manage to manufacture: the girls probably got lost, we don't know for sure, but our cannibalistic native mafia certainly had nothing to do with it.
To be fair, the local police did the search, with no dog, they were definitely in on it, what the mafia couldn't do themselves, the police definitely did.
>police uses the town's only computer to completely delete rape shed pic
This remains my main problem with the case that will probably never be explained. Removing this pic in a way that's resistant to forensic analysis is not a trivial task. If the cops were smart enough to know they needed to use specialized methods, surely they wouldn't also be so fucking stupid as to release this evidence of tampering into the world? Especially not along with the unedited night footage and a bunch of really bad photoshops of the day pics. They'd have just destroyed this evidence and only returned the phones.
This is absolutely unexplainable to me. It draws so much fucking attention and raises so many questions, and if this is really a murder case, no perpetrator or collaborant in their right mind would ever let any of this shit escape. It's not a question of being stupid or smart, it's a question of being completely insane. And they clearly weren't totally stupid if they knew how to correctly delete #509.
>They'd have just destroyed this evidence and only returned the phones.
>This is absolutely unexplainable to me.
This
>It draws so much fucking attention and raises so many questions, and if this is really a murder case, no perpetrator or collaborant in their right mind would ever let any of this shit escape.
Except it was a serial killer messing up with detectives like zodiac or btk, that's completely insane and has happened before
>Except it was a serial killer messing up with detectives like zodiac or btk, that's completely insane and has happened before
Yeah, but then we're dealing with a killer or group of killers who work on their own, without police involvement.
>the guys knew there was no reception and didn't bother taking them away because they're psychos like that
This is possible but further disproves the idea that Kris was killed for using her phone. Also if they were so sure the girls' phones couldn't compromise them for technical reasons, why wouldn't they later realize that releasing shitty shooped pictures would raise suspicion?
>I fully expect some random mafia kidnappers not to think properly about what they should and should not destroy
in this context seems incongruent with that theory.
>She could have had the phone with no battery left
That was her own phone. She knew it was out of battery. She had been using Kris' phone for the past day so she'd have brought that one instead, yet she didn't.
Yeah but then why not delete the weird ass nighttime pictures altogether? Why would they willingly let them raise so much suspicion?
We don't, the data is completely lost. All we know is the numeric ordering #509 places it between the last daytime image (evening on April 1st) and the first nighttime image (April 8th, 1AM). Could've been at any point during that timeframe.
>further disproves the idea that Kris was killed for using her phone
Yeah I'm scratching that from my theory
>shitty shooped pictures
Once again you guys don't take into account that digital pictures used to be much shittier than today
>in this context seems incongruent with that theory
Humans aren't robots. They had to take some fast and hard decisions. How many serial killers get caught because of some dumb shit?
>had been using Kris' phone for the past day so she'd have brought that one instead, yet she didn't
For some reason she didn't have it when she escaped
>why not delete the weird ass nighttime pictures altogether
Because contrary to the deleted pic, it makes it look like they just got lost and died of exposure
>Once again you guys don't take into account that digital pictures used to be much shittier than today
I'm absolutely taking this into account, but old digital camera quality doesn't cause the proportions of one half of your body to be wrong nor should it introduce blending artifacts around your arm. See
>They had to take some fast and hard decisions.
No they didn't. They had the backpack containing literally all the evidence against them but they slipped up supposedly due to pressure. Yet when they had 2 victims in their rape shed they were totally calm and calculating? Even after they hid the backpack in the forest again, it would take 2 months for it to be discovered. This makes no sense man.
>Because contrary to the deleted pic, it makes it look like they just got lost and died of exposure
At first glance yes, until you realize that the gap between the daytime pics of the girls and the nighttime pics is almost a week and it'd be impossible for them to survive that long alone in a jungle with no water or food. In order for this to retain any plausibility whatsoever, they would've had to calculate with the fact that the phone data would be made available and show that the girls were probably still alive ~6 days in. Again, that's a huge fucking assumption to make and they would've never ever been able to think of this if they had been either under pressure or stupid.
>without police involvement.
Maybe police was scared to investigate that killer or killer group because of cartel not wanting attention in the area/ the murder being one of their affiliates
They gave away the camera to make it look like they were enjoying their hike and suddenly disappeared
The pictures seem to show they were on their own which is good for them.
When was the deleted picture taken exactly? Do we know that?
Sometime after 13:55 on the day of the hike, likely before 16:40 (911 call) and before the first night photo on day 8. Otherwise we don't know. We do know it most likely contains a photo of a retarded brown criminal.
Alright, so it's either the only pic showing the guys they were with, or a pic of the shed she was at.
It's not that hard to think about.
They wanted to go the extra mile and use a professional doctoring to remove one pic and leave the others that implied a total accident.
It certainly means that they expected the deleted pic to leave no trace on camera.
This is extremely possible and would definitely explain why we found it. We’re still talking about brown moneys acting in a frenzy, I’m even surprised they got this far tbh.
Nah we aren't. Police got involved in the coverup when the shed guys panicked a week into the abduction. Explains how the girls could use their phones and even escape, while the doctoring was more professionally done.
We know for a fact the local police didn't use dogs for the search and didn't go to any nearby building in the jungle.
Paranormal or not, white women who travel to 3rd world countries are fucking dumb.
I have a theory that the deleted photo 509 is probably NOT the only photo deleted. I submit that the photos were in fact taken off the SD card and select photos were removed and/or edited. To cover for this, all photos were manually renamed in sequential order, the SD card was formatted and the newly renamed photo collection copied over (trivial to change the date of the computer when doing this to avoid timestamp issues). The problem is that they mis-numbered them, accidentally skipping 509 and didn't notice.
In effect it has become somewhat of a red herring for the community, with much brainpower focused on this macguffin photo that might be the single missing piece of the puzzle, when in reality there could be dozens or hundreds of missing photos.
>the newly renamed photo collection copied over (trivial to change the date of the computer when doing this to avoid timestamp issues).
So they changed the date of the computer to simulate different times for each photo? This is even more work than photoshopping everything, which was already unbelievable
No, the EXIF data retains the date the photo was taken regardless, they changed the date on the computer to show the correct file creation date (the one you see in a file manager).
Culturally enriched by people of colour. Get used to it ladies because it's a globally spreading phenomena. You voted for it.
Once we have a working theory I'm sending it to the blog girl and signing it /x/.
crinfe
It's just something I can do. Better than gaming and jerking off. She probly is better at nitpicking theories than some anons here.
>signing it /x/
Based
There's no sequence number in the exif data?
>There's no sequence number in the exif data?
I do not believe so, however I could be proven wrong. Also fuck yes Scully is one of us.
Seen as this is x i will just post my intuitive thoughts
>they probably practice voodoo sorcery or something and given its a tourist spot, they probably sacrifice / rape / eat white people.
A white male went missing in the same area from the UK but ofc no one really cared because he wasn't a white female. inb4 "incel" its actually a well documented phenomena https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missing_white_woman_syndrome
>they fucked around and found out
Local gang called "bandito" that they partied with / likely had sexual contact with apparently killed them in a trap house near a mango grove. They found a concealed trail to the Pianista hike round the back of that house.
>stumbled onto human trafficking route and got snatched
But why would they show up bleached or dismembered and not get sold for a premium?
>guide f (some farmer) kidnapped them
This seems likely too, he owns a farm close by, and seems very dodgy. Same guide the parents paid.
>why would they show up bleached or dismembered and not get sold for a premium?
To make investigators fuck off, the Dutch didn't know whether the girls were alive or not before the body parts showed up
The Spaniards should have put all of these Amerindian voodoo savages to the sword immediately upon their arrival, but in their greed they chose wealth, slavery and cooperation with these devil worshipers, instead of fulfilling God's will and ridding the world of these heathens.
>Eventually, at least 33 bones were found scattered along the same river bank - with evidence of injury.
This could signal something.
>use of 33 in the media
https://old.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/czqsde/does_anyone_find_it_weird_that_33_is_used_in_the/
https://old.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/kga5h9/lets_talk_about_the_obvious_occultfreemason_use/
https://old.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/fd1xcn/bizarre_coronavirus_and_the_number_33/
>here's more 33 signaling
ref: https://koudekaas.blogspot.com/?m=1
>1:37PM (European 13:37 PM) 4/5 & 4/6
>Dutch NFI investigators noted down this time of 13:37 for two days in a row in the case files
>later clarified by the authorities that it was an error made by the NFI investigators, who inadvertently copied the time of 13:37 and printed it twice; both for April 5th and 6th
I am quite convinced that the three dudes brought them somewhere mafia related (which they were too) with the intent of raping them. Probably killed one by accident. Mafia wasn’t happy about this, so the other one had to go to, but also the three homosexuals. Police obviously helped tampering the evidence and spreading the remains. Guide F was definitely one of the big mafia people involved.
Good bread anyway, feds didn’t get to ruin this for once.
I have a theory on what happened to the 3 boys
>they weren’t mafia, but mafia-adjacent playboys
Context: being from a crime-ridden third-world country myself (BR), I know for a fact that it’s considered “cool” for some to “know someone” who is a drug dealer and can get you drugs and “has got your back”, and to boast to your playboy friends that “I can go inside the favela if I want bro” (see the movie Elite of the Troop to get a feeling for this). Continuing.
>they meet the two girls in the resort
>they want to fuck them, but realize they are just cockteases
>get mad at them
>approach their mafia friends (because they got the rape infrastructure and guns), saying: Hey we know two hot white gringas who are traveling alone, they will be at such and such location such and such day
>mafia guys agree to kidnap them
>the playboys and mafia dudes take turns at raping them, eventually killing them and ditching their bodies
>local police refuses to look for them because corruption
>Dutch police gets on the case, now there could be international media attention directed towards their operation
>mafia dudes are afraid the playboys are going to speak under pressure and jeopardize their drug operation
>kill them before they can be interrogated (after all, they despise playboys; again watch Elite of the Troop)
>sloppy attempt at cover up follows, but they manage to get away with it because of corrupt police and limp-wristed parents and nation (Nederlands)
Could just be mafia guys who are good at picking up girls.
Agree with the rest.
I’m from southern Italy and the logic there is exactly the same.
>I know/am family with this and this mobster
I agree with you that the three limpdicks could’ve have just been guappos (playboys as you call em), though as I stated here
I still think mafia wasn’t necessarily involved in the kidnapping/initial killing, but was dragged in by the playboys e.g. taking the girls to a mafia-related base of ops. Everything that happened from there strongly looks like someone approaching thins reactively rather than proactively, as in, it wasn’t planned and acted in haste and confusingly. As you say, they only got away with it because of Dutch authorities being useless.
I think Kris Kremers fell and died, so Lisanne eventually had no choice but to move on and try to get out herself. If her phone had died, she would of course attempt to get into Kris’s phone out of desperation in the event that by some miracle there was a window of cell service.
They wouldn't have left the same touristy trail because everyone and their moms told them not to. Without leaving that trail there is no grave accident.
Aight another draft then
>girls are on the trail with a few friendly guys
>guys are related to a local mafia and were planning on kidnapping the girls
>after a point a guy is holding the camera because why not they're friendly locals 🙂
>first girl gets abducted while second one is walking ahead (jungle is noisy)
>last picture of her looking worried is taken by dude (psycho)
>(up til then, first possible time of the deleted picture, showing perpetrator(s))
>girls are both taken to a nearby shed
>girls somehow kept a hold of their phones, maybe the guys didn't bother, maybe knowing there was no reception
>captive, they attempt to contact 911 whenever they can
>girls are possibly separated
>first girl possibly gets killed then
Somehow the remaining girl (Lisanne) still has her friend's phone, still has battery, can't unlock it
After a while both phone(s) have no battery or are taken away
Lisanne manages to escape without her phone
>if first girl (Kris) is still alive, that's when she gets killed off
>body of Kris is then properly disposed of, dissolved the mafia way
>Lisanne somehow grabs the camera
>(up til now is the second possible time of the deleted picture, showing where she was kept prisoner)
>runs blindly through the jungle and falls down a cliff
>bones broken, she stays there for a while, freaks out in the dark, tries to scare away a perceived predator with flashes
>guys end up finding her, but have to get rid of her body hastily on the spot because of her broken bones
>panicky and uneducated guys are convinced they messed up and are going to get caught
>mafia and the local authorities are related, they ask the police what to do
>police uses their computer to completely remove the perp-or-shed picture
>things have to look weird and confusing, with 0 hard proof someone was involved
>lower-rank goons involved are killed off
>real investigation starts, mafia or police throws out what remains of the girls so the investigation stops
(1/2)
>police doesn't go near the shed, doesn't bring dogs because it's closeby
>doctored camera is used to make it look like two girls were hiking on their own and got lost and died of exposure
How did the killers mess up?
They didn't expect the deleted picture to leave any trace on the camera
And thought it was valuable to their protection to drop a camera that tells a no-foul-play story. Which it actually did with the deleted pic, rather than making it disappear.
(2/2)
that guy playing chicken with the waves
Don’t let this bread die 🙁
Making the next one.
This one needs to go into auto-sage or janitors might delete the next one.
Gotcha.
>janitors
the only thing worse than a
Here is a timeline from the blog
We have a pretty good working theory ITT about how mafia browns could have done this. Can we discuss in the next thread how the weird shit could be explained if they got lost and we're alone/abandoned?
>how the weird shit could be explained if they got lost and we're alone/abandoned
I don't think it can, because of the professionally deleted pic. It's the clear sign of foul play that got away.
Yeah but it doesn't imply they were murdered. Just that someone (the guide F) could have abandoned them to their fate and wanted to disassociate himself from the situation, or something.
For this to work, guide F would have needed to get the girls off the very clear touristy trail that everybody told them not to leave.
Then he would need to go with the camera to someone competent.