hello. i have spent the past 100 days doing what this board likes to call "fatmaxxing". basically if you're unfamiliar, the idea is that you can obtain masopotamian fertility godess curves, which is apparently better than the etherial elf build. well i tried it. over the course of 3 months i went from beautiful, elflike and spritely to looking like a FAT, MALE EUNUCH. i have a BIG OL' POTBELLY. i gained 20 pounds (120 to 140) and IT ALL WENT TO MY ABDOMEN. 100% VISCERAL FAT. absolutely NO curves, thighs, hips, or faster than average breast development. i tried a stupid diet from this fucking mongolian basket weaving forum and it RUINED ME. i will be going bulemia again and losing the weight but the damage may be done. please anons, DO NOT try this. btw, my levels are normal.
forgot the unsee
https://unsee cc/album#e3ITDSQvsoQwn9Uf
post side profile
Another bdd gigapassoid thread how original x_x
You look nearly identical. You just have body dysmorphia.
i hate to say it anon but you look a lot better... tits are looking nicer, and sure your belly got a bit bigger but it will go away. and honestly, you just look nicer anyway, much more round and healthy looking.
>https://unsee cc/album#e3ITDSQvsoQwn9Uf
you look the same
you look hot as fuck in both
dont fatmaxx, thats stupid as fuck and im fatphobic as fuck. but try weightcycling, try to go back to the same weight in your first picture and compare them, then keep doing it until you stall
honestly i don't care about being "fat" as long as it is concentrated in the lower body, i'm just upset about having a kinda potbelly
You grew small tits and wider hips, you look okay to me
my hips aren't wider. i've measured this meticulously. they are the exact same width.
tfw youre too late and miss the unsees ;_;
It boggles my mind how easily you guys brainwash each other into obviously terrible ideas on this board
you barely look different
Kek, it takes you 100 days just to move 20 pounds of weight? I move between 130 and 140 on a weekly basis
oof yeah, you look a lot more like a plank. good job on warning others not to do the same though
by any chance are you a bear (animal)?
à significant portion of that is water weight.
gigapassoid? she looks fine but clocky.
ive gained muscle and recomped more than gained weight on pio.
>ive gained muscle and recomped more than gained weight on pio.
Really? How much do you work out? What dose pio and how long on/off it??
30 mg daily for the past like 3 months ish.
I work out 5-7 days a week. Core and lower body + cardio and daily yoga.
I have gained no weight
Do you have measurements?
Would be interesting to hear more details since pretty interesting example.
So you feel you've been able to both gain muscle and get a better fat distro on Pio if I understand right? Or more to it?
ig? ive lost fat overall i think bc adderall makes it hard to eat and I keep turning it into muscle. its hard to say what caused what but I went from a 27 inch waist empty (not like full of food or have to pee) to about a 25.5-26 depending on if I overtrain my obliques. I think that's mostly stomach vacuums though. My hips went from 39 to 37 and back to 38 but my ass is a lot more muscular rn. my boobs haven't grown but its been almost 4 years so im fucked on that anyways. my chest is less fatty, as in its even easier to see my ribs than it was before.
my thighs are much larger and muscly.
last time I was this fit and lean my obliques were huge and it looked weird, now its more slim ig?
ive always been thinner and only broke like 120 when I started estrogen and I stick at 140 even when I try to gain weight. I will say I think im genetically predisposed to build muscle or something because my arms just will not get smaller even though I dont work them out at all
https://unsee
cc/album#PcqpNWPlA1a5lfhi
these are all from tbe last month, the skinnier ones are the more recent ones. no weight change just recomp and pio
Hmm works well ty.
And appreciate you trying this out/ experimenting with Pio while still going for a muscle build.
Though it could be like you say that you have better muscle genes than most people/ are more able to go "natty" if we were on LULZ. Still interesting
yeah I think its genes+lifestyle+how I was raised. Health freak lesbians set me up, good gut health and dislike of sugar. Not to mention teaching me to skate at 7.
My mom (genetic) was a rugby and track star. she went to college on a rugby scholarship and before her back got fucked up/age she was my height. I inherited rugby star shoulders, i never had a chance );
no but seriously i just kinda work our more the more I eat it's almost obsessive
you look great
Are you doing all that just eating at maintenance calories or what?
im trying to gain weight but I cant keep track of calorie counting and adderall makes it difficult to eat in the day and sugary treats and drinks make me feel sick and anxious so its difficult. I do a couple hundred jumping jacks a day outside of my workouts and skate for a few hours when I can, + increased metabolism from adderall and drinking a shit ton of caffeine + constant fidgeting and like passively doing standing stomach vacuums.
I gained a little weight when I was drinking a half gallon of milk a day, need to get back to that.
The thing is pio makes me sleepy bc low blood sugar so when I eat I get energy and when I have energy I workout more.
you look more feminine right now and your tits have grown noticeably. what are you complaining about
not op but kys troll
i swear y'all are blind and retarded fr
do you realize having a lean body is the most masculine thing possible
women are supposed to be thicc
the only women who look good being thin have natural petite builds due to being afab, which we're not, obviously.
trans women generally dont look good without being slightly fat as we need to cover up our masculine build
Were you on Pio?
Usually if you’re not on Pio and you gain weight it’ll go the abdomen at first. One of the main issues with weight cycling and why people started shilling Pio in the first place.
There’s studies on anorexic cis women and this kind of thing happens. And it’s part of why it’s so difficult to stop being ana
Also if you prefer the elf build over the curvy build, like in a best case of each, just go for the elf build
i'm not gonna take pio (btw i also can), is there any way to have it go to my hips without pio
yeah that's because it's been 3 months
>is there any way to have it go to my hips without Pio
Sort of but you’re not gonna like it.
You also lose the abdominal fat first.
So shoot past your goal weight. If you want to be 140, get up to 160. Then lose back down to 140. It’ll be better than just going directly to 140 from 120.
ok but across what timescale? because i don't wanna look like this for a second longer, but 3 months to gain weight 20 pounds and then maybe a month to lose 40 doesn't sound THAT bad
Like the other anon said, gain slowly. Lose fast.
The fat needs somewhere to go. Your fat cells need time to divide. If they have no place to go they end up visceral in your abdomen.
This is why Pio helps, it speeds up the process of you having more fat cells in the peripheral regions.
Then when you lose fast that also targets the visceral fat because it’s easier for the body to get at. Think of visceral fat as survival fat the body gets at in an emergency.
The Ana studies also suggested after about a year the fat did start to redistribute on its own just by maintaining weight. Again, gives the fat cells time to do their thing
Can you use pio to loose weight in the places you don't want??
link to the study?
i didn't even know there was a study, what i'm saying is just based on anecdotal evidence i saw on ED recovery spaces (people on reddit used to call it the "recovery belly"), but what the other anon said about fat redistributing over time in those cases does seem to be true. i think it happened to me at the start, i had a bit of a tummy when i first started gaining weight again after being ana for a long time but eventually it got better.
Copy pasting a write-up on this:
What estrogen seems NOT to do is cause new fat cell division/the creation of new fat cells. Instead this is a complex process where multiple competing genes try to get stem cells to divide into muscle, bone, or fat cells. The gene PPAR-y, our guy, is the one causing it to go towards new fat cells.
Now, why are new fat cells important? Check out this study:
>https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/11333838/
>Twenty of the 27 patients with anorexia aged 27.0 +/- 1.3 y spontaneously gained weight (4.1 +/- 0.9 kg); body mass index (in kg/m(2)) increased from 16.1 +/- 0.3 to 17.5 +/- 0.4. Fat mass and lean mass accounted for 68% and 32% of the gain in total body mass, respectively. With spontaneous weight gain, there was a significant increase in the percentage of trunk fat from 32.4 +/- 1.3% at baseline to 36.5 +/- 1.0% at 9 mo (P = 0.03), which correlated with urinary free cortisol (r = 0.66, P = 0.003). Estrogen treatment was not protective against the gain in trunk fat with spontaneous weight gain.
What's happening is the anorexics have no fat cells in sc spots to store the fat so it all goes visceral.
So yea the anorexic cis girls, and anorexics have what's called a "Hyper gynoid" fat distribution btw/ the little fat they do have is all in good spots, they're not able to store the fat they gain right. Even with exogenous estrogen(anorexics have low natural E levels if any so that might’ve been a factor but with the ex e it’s clear that’s not the only thing going on).
There's other studies on weight cycling in non-anorexics and they seem to show similar results/ weight cycling usually causes accumulation in visceral fat.
This all suggests to me that we have a major problem for the gain phase of weight cycling.
Cont.
I read the anorexic study and panicked over it for a few months. Not sure what to do. Seems certain diets may help. Exercising, etc. But only very slightly and not for very long unfortunately.
Then I came across this study:
>https://academic.oup.com/endo/article/145/1/367/2878508?login=true
They have a transgenic mouse. They get basically all of it's fat to go periphereal/gynoid/subc and basically none of it goes visceral. As a result the mouse gets healthier and has less of a diabetic profile. (Note: The transgenic effect in this mouse is essentially the same as taking pio).
I saw that study and the word glitazone in it and it reminded me of powers post from awhile back:
https://www.reddit.com/r/DrWillPowers/comments/geqs7z/does_anyone_have_any_anecdata_on_weight_cycling/
Powers basically asked trans people if they'd fucked around with glitazones. Like 100 people responded and not one of them answered that question/it was ignored. I ignored it too until I saw the mouse article.
There have been studies on Pio and waist-hip ratio in adults:
>https://academic.oup.com/jcem/article/92/5/1710/2598363
PCOS women losing double the amount of visceral fat on E+Pio compared to just E
>https://care.diabetesjournals.org/content/26/11/3148.short
They took people with a BMI of ~33/morbidly obese and told them to lose a bunch of weight or take Pio and measured their hip-waist ratio. The ones on Pio went up to 34 BMI and had the same significant drop in waist hip-ratio as the ones who lose BMI down to 28.
So Pio seems to have a lot of promise when gaining weight/ cycling. I used to just recommend it for gaining. But now I suspect it could be useful in loss too:
https://diabetes.diabetesjournals.org/content/diabetes/51/7/2029.full.pdf
It's tricky to read but if you run the numbers on Table 2 Rosiglitazone (basically Pio but more sides) seems to be protecting subc fat during loss similar to estrogen.
So yea that's the argument for Pio more or less. May really help with weight cycling. Now on to the side effects and lingering questions.
Note: I'm cutting this short but just brief mention
Discussion on breast dev:
>https://mesityl.substack.com/p/does-pioglitazone-negatively-impact
Potential Risks:
1.) That issue with stem cells results in your body not making enough bone cells. This results in increased fracture risk over a few years. So like old ladies on pio (who take it for diabetes) are likely to break their hips 10% of the time over a 3 year period instead of 5%. I think the solution here is to cycle off pio sometimes/ take a break a few months a year.
2.) There's increased risk of congestive heart failure Congestive heart failure is not really a heart attack but more of a "weak heart". Pio's overall cardiac protective though due to the cholesterol effects and so doesn't result in increased cardiac death.
3.) Pio has a bunch of health benefits as well. Kind of similar to the longevity/metformin stuff and of course the benefits of not having such a visceral fat distribution.
4.) Related to 2. If you get swelling in your feet STOP IMMEDIATELY. About 5% of patients report Pedal Edema (foot swelling, google images, it would have to be pretty extreme).
5.) Bladder Cancer. There was a claim of Pio causing it but those studies have since been somewhat discredited.
6.) Liver Issues: The earlier medications Pio is based on had liver issues as a risk. Pio was kind of developed to get around those issues and such issues aren't a major concern with it. Still good to be on the lookout for.
7.) Don’t take it if you have Grave’s disease. In Grave’s there’s an unusual fat deposit around your eye and if you take Pio with that it may exacerbate it. A lot of the megadose animal studies also suggest this happens at mega-doses in normal animals. However, there’s not documented cases of it happening in any humans without Grave’s.
>Rare Conditions:
Further, some people with rarer health conditions like G6PD have reported issues with Pio/more major liver sides. If you have a condition like that, do not use it imo.
Also if you have a condition like Type 1 Diabetes or Hashimoto's Disease/Hypothyroidism, it is unlikely Pio will help you.
>Pio is a last resort:
Pio is great. But you should only mess with it if you're already doing everything else perfectly.
If you drink alcohol or smoke, quite those first. It will help you far more.
If you're on a gluccocorticoid medication like prednisone Pio also won't help and you should work with your physician to go off of it.
How risky would it be to take pio if you have a slightly irregular heartbeat?
>How risky would it be to take pio if you have a slightly irregular heartbeat?
No idea. I'd recommend working with a trans-healthcare physician who is okay with Pio and could monitor you if you really want to mess with it.
Yeah I can't even get one who isn't ok with pio
Doesn't pio also make you lose muscle or at least make you stop gaining any?? That's my only issue with it, If it can work for fat loss and gain that's great, but idk if that's worth it if you also wanna work out. Is there any more info about using it to lose fat from male pattern areas?
Yea Pio likely isn't great for muscle there's more publications on that but I don't have them on hand.
Basically there's a type of stem cell, mesenchymal stemcells that in adults can become bone, fat, or muscle. And Pio is telling them to become fat.
There might be some way to balance is but I'm not well informed on balancing fat and muscle maxxing. Best I can think of is to switch between phases of each. So fat max 6 months, muscle max 6 months, you'll end up with at least some mix of each even if it's suboptimal.
Also wouldn't worry about the neuron stuff here. In adults there's really not a large neuronal stem cell population and the studies on Pio in the brain actually suggest its pretty good for brain health. For instance some alzheimers studies find a benefit from taking it.
Is 6mo the recommended cycle for pio? Or could you do 3mo cycles? Do you think it's possible to even maintain the muscle you're building while not on pio after you start taking it again?? Probably not right?
It’s really hard to say for any of your questions.
Pio seems best used in a weight cycle bill phase. That’s the optimal time to use it.
If you wanted to be on it 4 years straight that’d be fine too but you might run into bone health issues/fracture risks.
It would likely be harder to maintain muscle but I really couldn’t say how much . The intersection of fat and muscle maxing isn’t studied that well
Yeah I figured there probably isn't much info on it. Ig I just wanted to know how effective it is for losing visceral fat and how bad it affects muscle. Maybe I should start talking it and see idk.
Sounds like a bad idea to take pio if you have bone growth, namely hips.
so if you're ana there's no hope? you just can't get normal fat redistribution
>so if you're ana there's no hope? you just can't get normal fat redistribution
If you don't want fat why would you want a fat distribution?
[girl on left is a product of BBLs, not Pio]
Left is a product of top 1% bone structure and photoshop are you dumb??
>Left is a product of top 1% bone structure and photoshop are you dumb??
She has scarring on her back and tummy indicating heavy/multiple bbls.
It's fat, not bone.
It's obviously both and you're ignoring how edited it is
Eh she posts fairly regularly there’s at least a lot of truth in her photos.
You’re missing the real risk though.
That it’s not fat, bone, or editing. And that it’s the one thing that definitely gives those results.
Silicone injections.
All I’ll say is I don’t think that’s the case for this girl. But it is in most people who look like that.
i don't wanna look like left, that's not thick, that's just wide. she looks boney.
Her butt is bones too.
But yea it’s your call.
Like the bodybuilders say you don’t get to these extreme physiques in a day and if you want to stop earlier on you absolutely can. If you just want a little of it
Also this girl is bbl body not Pio body. Pio does have a bit more belly fat (she had transferred obvi). Will post a pic in a sec
I think Pio/E body is more like the far left on here. Notice the little deposit of fat near the belly.
Drinking body is the far right one. Don't drink.
So what's the best bet for a normal BMI person? Just take it and hope for the best or gain weight first then take pio?
I wondered about the loss phase: Would metformin be usefull in any way since it reduces visceral fat? For someone wanting to lose muscles as well though I'm uncertain by conflicting literature I read about its effect on muscles. You know anything about that?
>is there any way to have it go to my hips without pio
BBL, then lose weight to narrow visceral fat
ideally avoid sugar/carbs/alcohol/stress - the usual suspects
This but you have to have ample subcutaneous fat deposits in the first place which unfortunately neccessitates pio in most cases as per my post
. (Visceral cant be used for a bbl.) Don't be like me and be too skinny. It's critically important you gain weight.
>Usually if you’re not on Pio and you gain weight it’ll go the abdomen at first.
>There’s studies on anorexic cis women and this kind of thing happens
Can you talk more about this?
works on my machine
lmao
t. gained 9 kg without any of it going to my stomach without using pio
20 pounds in 100 days is a bit too fast imo, if you gain weight that quickly you're gonna end up with some visceral fat, especially if you were underweight to begin with (this happens to cis girls recovering from EDs too). i'm 5'8 and it took me almost a year to go from 120 to 140 two years ago, then i weight cycled a bit. now i'm kinda squishy at 160 but it has gone to my curves so i'm happy.
what should i do then? lose some and gain some slowly? can i see a before and after?
not posting nude pictures on here out of respect for my bf but i think
is good advice, like i noticed that when i gained weight and lost it again i'd tend to lose visceral fat first. make sure you stay active too, that also keeps visceral fat at bay.
>make sure you stay active too, that also keeps visceral fat at bay
That is impossible for anas because all of them rot in their bedrooms all day. Even the average fatty on this board is more active.
Lmao. Tfw you start as a fat eunuch and are slowly turning into a fertility goddess. On a scale of 1-10 I give it a 9.5 simply because I still have about 3 years of fat redistribution.
humanity was a mistake
>tfw you reply to the wrong person
I posted a few days ago with the opposite conclusion. Fat maxing with pio and bbls to redistribute fat is key to body passing with a male skeleton.
Should you try to loose the visceral fat first or just cut on pio?
>Should you try to loose the visceral fat first or just cut on pio?
Lose visceral fat by losing weight rapidly.
Add subc fat by gaining while on Pio
So lose before pio or does it not matter? What's the best way to lose it rapidly?
>So lose before pio or does it not matter? What's the best way to lose it rapidly?
I would. Pio's not as beneficial during a loss.
For losing rapidly it depends on you and your resting metabolic rate.
For me, I just follow the "My 600lb Life" diet, though I add a small amount of carbs/ the chicken and rice cut thing to keep me sane.
Can you still do it on pio anyway tho? Or will it stop you losing the bad fat unless you've already done that before starting?
>Can you still do it on pio anyway tho? Or will it stop you losing the bad fat unless you've already done that before starting?
It will actually help lose the bad fat.
Just if you have a hard time losing weight it may make it even more difficult.
If you have an easy time losing weight and a hard time gaining weight I wouldn't worry about it
you looked better skinnier
most do
cut weight
You need to fatten up in order to pass.
gorlog the destroyer
you did this moronically, but its understandable tbh. if you are an adult your ability to alter your subq fat is pretty damn limited. in order to soften yourself out you need to take something like pio.
the good news is visceral fat is ridiculously easy to lose, its not gonna stick around and you arent saddled with loose tissue for the rest of your life.
the bad news is that in order to roll the dice on softening your frame you need to risk getting a double chin on pio. either that or just accept youre gonna be a skinny twink.
the point of fatmaxxing isnt just to give you perfect feminine curves. its mainly to hide MALE bone structure. if you want the elf twinkhon look go ahead but a lot of us have masc bones and wide shoulders and ribs that only fat can hide.