Did nomads live better lives than sedentary people on average?


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Did nomads live better lives than sedentary people on average? Not talking Genghis Khan vs the emperor of China just some random dude on a horse vs peasants. I mean, comparatively how well did they eat? How did they spend their free time? How easy was it to have a family? How likely were you to get fucked by a neighboring tribe or kingdom, or by your own elites?

I’m thinking it must have been pretty rough otherwise they would’ve done more art or poetry or whatever but then again maybe they just weren’t bored enough to bother with that gay shit

  1. 7 months ago
    Anonymous

    awooga

  2. 7 months ago
    Anonymous

    It was pretty rough. Finding food is obviously more of a challenge and the open steppes that a nomad culture lives on will inevitably have less defensive barriers shielding said nomads from enemies.

    • 7 months ago
      Anonymous

      >Finding food is obviously more of a challenge
      you know they eat horse, right?

      • 7 months ago
        Anonymous

        maybe “finding food” was a poor choice of words but the fact that grazing livestock required constant movement made it harder to eat, probably. At least harder to eat than lazy tropical civilizations like india

        • 7 months ago
          Anonymous

          It really depends on the kind of nomadic society you fags were. There were nomadic states that were purely nomadic-pastoralists & confederacies of other nomadic clans and there were nomadic states that had sedentary subjects under them (usually Central Asian city states) whom they extracted resources from either through trade or tribute.

          But in general life as a steppenagger nomad is hard.
          >I mean, comparatively how well did they eat?

          While theyr'e not Hunter & Gatherer shitlings, their food supplies wer a tad bit lower as it is based on livestock which is a very finite, slow-replenishing food resource. While this meant they're jacked up in protein, reliance on a relatively slow replenishing food supply meant your numbers are going to be few & also your food supplies are very unstable. A bad disease or an enemy raid can mean the total wipeout or theft of herds, which means an entire tribe starves. This would result to tribes breaking up, getting absorbed by wealthier tribes, or worse engaging in warfare & raiding vs. other tribes & settled people to acquire food.

          >How did they spend their free time?
          They practically had none. The harshness of nomadic existence meant constant activity. If you arent tending your herds, your doing other camp chores like preserving food, tanning hides, making clothes, hunting to augment food supplies, etc. If you're not doing that then you'd be practicing for war & learning how to fight.

          >How easy was it to have a family?

          You're thinking in terms of modern whitoid nuclear families LMAAAAAO. A Tribe is a clan in itself so unless you're a vile criminal who got exiled from his clan, you're assured a family. They'd even find a bride for you in most cases.

          >How likely were you to get fucked by a neighboring tribe or kingdom, or by your own elites?

          Extremely. In this world of scarcity you're going to live in a world of conflicts.
          >Tribe to tribe warfare squabbling over the meagre resources of the steppes: stealing herds, staking claims etc.
          >Clan wars, especially when some incel in another tribe convinces his family to kidnap a girl he likes (Bride Seizing).
          >The Khan/Chanyu/Khagan/Royal Clan/head honcho of the Confederacy asking for tributes from subject clans and tribes for his """"protections."""" Oh its too much? Prepare to get punished via warfare & raiding by the rest of the confederacy.
          >Another Confederation challenges your Chieftain's Confederacy over supremacy over the tribes, leading to a huge war between the two.
          >Bandit Warbands consisting of tribal exiles raiding you for whatever reason.

          >China, Persia, or Russia suddenly deciding a punitive expedition is necessary because they mistook you for the other tribe that attacked a trade caravan.

          It was a harsh environment that bred and extremely tough and warlike people. But at the same time when presented with a different option, Nomads are very quick to abandon their ways, which is why they rapidly get assimilated into settled Chinese/Middle Eastern Cultures every time some Nomad Ruler conquers these places.

          >harder to eat
          >slow-replenishing food
          >scarcity

          One dairy cow can produce enough milk to provide enough calories to sustain 3-5 people every day even if milk is their only source of calories. Herding is an easy way to get a steady supply of high quality calories. It's way easier than farming and the food supply is more reliable because it replenishes literally every day instead of every year.

          • 7 months ago
            Anonymous

            >It's way easier than farming and the food supply is more reliable because it replenishes literally every day instead of every year.
            >*after meme conquests they immediately becomes a settled farmer in a single generation*
            OK.

            • 7 months ago
              Anonymous

              They didn't become farmers they became rulers. The only ones who became farmers would have been forced into it by their chiefs. Nobody ever wanted to be a farmer.

              • 7 months ago
                Anonymous

                >They didn't become farmers they became rulers.
                No only the aristocracy became rulers. So nothing changes really.

                >The only ones who became farmers would have been forced into it by their chiefs.

                Yes this happened A LOT. Especially in China. For example the Jurchen/Manchus ordered their Nomadic commoners (Manchus, Jurchens, Turkcis, whoever) under their rule to became sedentary peoples and even policed their movements by staking out lands in which they must stay in.

              • 7 months ago
                Anonymous

                >No only the aristocracy became rulers. So nothing changes really.

                No shit you're the one who posted a picture of timur insinuating that because he became a ruler of farmers that means that being a farmer is better than a herder I'm glad you acknowledge that your first post was bullshit.

          • 7 months ago
            Anonymous

            >One dairy cow can produce enough milk to provide enough calories to sustain 3-5 people every day
            Did you fucking use the math for a modern day, BHG, roided up dairy cow instead of a steppe cow from the time period?

            Modern dairy cows can produce 7.5 gallons a day. You know, the cows on bovine growth hormones, roided up, in an industrial factory with suction machines.
            Average cows in England back then could produce about 100 gallons annually, so let's be generous and say 2 gallons a week.
            1 gallon is 1600 calories.

            The fuck are you smoking?

            • 7 months ago
              Anonymous

              >Did you fucking use the math for a modern day, BHG, roided up dairy cow instead of a steppe cow from the time period?

              No I was using a single dairy cow owned by a single Ukrainian family. 1 gallon is more like 2400 calories and 1 liter per day for a dairy cow is retardedly low. They can produce like 20-25 liters per day now without hormones and industrial milking machines. I accept that they probably would have produced less in the past but not 25x less.

              • 7 months ago
                Anonymous

                >Assessment of Traditional Dairy Production, Milk Marketing and Processing System: In the Case of Alle Woreda, Segen Peoples Zone, Southern Ethiopia
                >The study show that the overall average milk produce per house hold (HH) per day for the three district Kebeles was 1.5 liters.

                Traditional Ethiopians appear to produce only about 1.5 liters of milk per cow which is about 0.4 a gallon. If you can show your Ukraine single family cow source, I can do the math there. But for a steppe life, where the cow can only produce milk when lactating (just after pregnancy) and constantly burning calories moving from grazing field to field, I can't imagine it produce the same dairy levels we see today.

          • 7 months ago
            Anonymous

            This is clearly untrue by the simple fact that steppe cultures were always outnumbered by sedentary cultures by at least 10 to 1 at the best of cases.
            1 gram of protein is much more "expensive" to make than 1 gram of carbs or even 1 gram of fat, although before seed oils fat was also a luxury. And since steppe cultures ate mostly protein diets it led to them having smaller but stronger populations which had certain advantages and disadvantages compared to sedentary people.

      • 7 months ago
        Anonymous

        to survive you need enough energy, eating too much horse is just going to lead to rabbit starvation (i.e. protein poisoning), it's generally too lean, especially under those conditions

        • 7 months ago
          Anonymous

          They evolved mechanisms to deal with this, just like the Inuit did.

          • 7 months ago
            Anonymous

            What mechanisms? I'm curious.

            • 7 months ago
              Anonymous

              https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2015/09/17/441169188/the-secret-to-the-inuit-high-fat-diet-may-be-good-genes

              • 7 months ago
                Anonymous

                Some Scandinavian tribes live this way too, although they may have more leafy green and berries available.

      • 7 months ago
        Anonymous

        Even Mongols themselves know that their traditional food is shit.
        The "Mongolian cuisine" that you can find in malls across the world was made up in Taiwan.

      • 7 months ago
        Anonymous

        They almost never ate their horses. When meat was eaten it was almost always sheep, not horse. Horses are way less calorie-efficient and take too long to raise to be good food sources. Most of the steppe subsistence was around sheep and sheep products.
        https://acoup.blog/2020/12/11/collections-that-dothraki-horde-part-ii-subsistence-on-the-hoof/

        >Now just because this subsistence system is built around the horse doesn’t mean it is entirely made up by horses. Even once domesticated, horses aren’t very efficient animals to raise for food. They take too long to gestate (almost a year) and too long to come to maturity (technically a horse can breed at 18 months, but savvy breeders generally avoid breeding horses under three years – and the Mongols were savvy horse breeders). The next most important animal, by far is the sheep. Sheep are one of the oldest domesticated animals (c. 10,000 BC!) and sheep-herding was practiced on the steppe even before the domestication of the horse. Steppe nomads will herd other animals – goats, yaks, cattle – but the core of the subsistence system is focused on these two animals: horses and sheep. Sheep provide all sorts of useful advantages. Like horses, they survive entirely off of the only resource the steppe has in abundance: grass. Sheep gestate for just five months and reach sexual maturity in just six months, which means a small herd of sheep can turn into a large herd of sheep fairly fast (important if you are intending to eat some of them!). Sheep produce meat, wool and (in the case of females) milk, the latter of which can be preserved by being made into cheese or yogurt (but not qumis, as it will curdle, unlike mare’s milk). They also provide lots of dung, which is useful as a heating fuel in the treeless steppe. Essentially, sheep provide a complete survival package for the herder and conveniently, made be herded on foot with low manpower demands.

        • 7 months ago
          Anonymous

          You're a fucking retard. Grain-fed massive equine breeds are not a good comparison for a grass-eating steppe pony. If nothing else, they ate the ones that died, which was common enough to mention without comparison to Dothraki meme.

  3. 7 months ago
    Anonymous

    Their lives were poorer, harsher and shorter. You could say as an average that they were more militarized than sedentary people which enabled nearly 30% of a society to participate in war with often times an advanced skill in horse archery and riding. But that doesn't imply that their lives were actually better because of it. Law and order for these people, well until the Russian conquest of Central Asia was arbitrary and cruel even by Middle Eastern standards, especially by Western European standards of their times. The Crusaders were horrified by the cruelty and lack of respect of any real law that the Turkic nomads had and even worked together with the few remaning Arab polities to fight against them.

    • 7 months ago
      Anonymous

      Pretty much these I think

      They were routinely regarded as hardy, brutal people comfortable with levels of misery and hardship that sedentary people just couldn't contend with by almost every settled culture they interacted with. Life was harsh, theft and murder were common, and they were even more susceptible to environmental changes than settled peoples were, but if humans can inhabit a place some people will ultimately chose to do so and eventually form cultures that adapt to the rigors as best as it can.

      I will say, they did seem to generally eat healthier, grain diets were extremely harmful even back then and it was known among the Mongols who made it a point to eat mostly meat as opposed to the Chinese who they considered to be more like animals for eating veggies and grain.
      Also, arguably the most influential nomads of Eurasia ever, the Scythians, produced some of the finest art and sculptures of the ancient world that we know of, so it wasn’t all ‘find food find shelter find sex find grazing land’ and so on, they seemed to be largely an exception since most of them were concerned with all that other stuff so I guess that’s why they stand out.

      • 7 months ago
        Anonymous

        Mongols eated meat and veggies you retard

    • 7 months ago
      Anonymous

      Didnt the crusaders apreciated turks for their martial prowess saying that only them and turks were real warriors ?

  4. 7 months ago
    Anonymous

    They were routinely regarded as hardy, brutal people comfortable with levels of misery and hardship that sedentary people just couldn't contend with by almost every settled culture they interacted with. Life was harsh, theft and murder were common, and they were even more susceptible to environmental changes than settled peoples were, but if humans can inhabit a place some people will ultimately chose to do so and eventually form cultures that adapt to the rigors as best as it can.

  5. 7 months ago
    Anonymous

    >I mean, comparatively how well did they eat?
    Mostly milk and meat. Whatever random shit they can hunt or forage. They would lack access to wheat and stuff, so it's mostly roasted or stewed stuff. Sounds like a lot of constipation and log-shits.
    >How did they spend their free time?
    Taking care of the herd. Chores. Fixing shit. Breaking down and setting up camp for a few weeks. Leisure activities would be archery or wrestling.
    >How easy was it to have a family?
    Pretty easy. Steppe tribes generally married out of their local tribe so you'd find a different group and get a wife from them. Of course, this is assuming you are part of a family. If you come from nothing or lost your family in a raid, your best bet is integrating yourself with another family as a servant-slave and then they decide to adopt you.
    >How likely were you to get fucked by a neighboring tribe or kingdom, or by your own elites?
    Pretty common. Any petty dispute usually ends up with some form of clan/street justice and raids.

    Steppe nomads typically follow migration paths to seek pasture and water. They can't stay in one place for long because animals will over grace and literally shit up the place. So you have to keep moving from water to water, making sure your herd and family are moving together and nothing gets lost. You also have to negotiate and bitch with other tribes because you can't double dip land (takes 1-2 years for grazing area to recover from all the grass eaten and literal shit to decompose). So you could easily fuck yourself up if you don't ride ahead and make sure no other tribe is edging on your pastures.

    I don't think they lived 'better'. Your life was constantly on the move and if shit went wrong or you were too slow on the grazing schedule, your herd could starve and you're fucked.

    • 7 months ago
      Anonymous

      Ever sincei embraced a not keto-friendly/low-carb diet my movements have become remarkably more quick, clean and regular. I am sincerely amazed!

  6. 7 months ago
    Anonymous

    It really depends on the kind of nomadic society you fags were. There were nomadic states that were purely nomadic-pastoralists & confederacies of other nomadic clans and there were nomadic states that had sedentary subjects under them (usually Central Asian city states) whom they extracted resources from either through trade or tribute.

    But in general life as a steppenagger nomad is hard.
    >I mean, comparatively how well did they eat?

    While theyr'e not Hunter & Gatherer shitlings, their food supplies wer a tad bit lower as it is based on livestock which is a very finite, slow-replenishing food resource. While this meant they're jacked up in protein, reliance on a relatively slow replenishing food supply meant your numbers are going to be few & also your food supplies are very unstable. A bad disease or an enemy raid can mean the total wipeout or theft of herds, which means an entire tribe starves. This would result to tribes breaking up, getting absorbed by wealthier tribes, or worse engaging in warfare & raiding vs. other tribes & settled people to acquire food.

    >How did they spend their free time?
    They practically had none. The harshness of nomadic existence meant constant activity. If you arent tending your herds, your doing other camp chores like preserving food, tanning hides, making clothes, hunting to augment food supplies, etc. If you're not doing that then you'd be practicing for war & learning how to fight.

    >How easy was it to have a family?

    You're thinking in terms of modern whitoid nuclear families LMAAAAAO. A Tribe is a clan in itself so unless you're a vile criminal who got exiled from his clan, you're assured a family. They'd even find a bride for you in most cases.

    • 7 months ago
      Anonymous

      >How likely were you to get fucked by a neighboring tribe or kingdom, or by your own elites?

      Extremely. In this world of scarcity you're going to live in a world of conflicts.
      >Tribe to tribe warfare squabbling over the meagre resources of the steppes: stealing herds, staking claims etc.
      >Clan wars, especially when some incel in another tribe convinces his family to kidnap a girl he likes (Bride Seizing).
      >The Khan/Chanyu/Khagan/Royal Clan/head honcho of the Confederacy asking for tributes from subject clans and tribes for his """"protections."""" Oh its too much? Prepare to get punished via warfare & raiding by the rest of the confederacy.
      >Another Confederation challenges your Chieftain's Confederacy over supremacy over the tribes, leading to a huge war between the two.
      >Bandit Warbands consisting of tribal exiles raiding you for whatever reason.

      >China, Persia, or Russia suddenly deciding a punitive expedition is necessary because they mistook you for the other tribe that attacked a trade caravan.

      It was a harsh environment that bred and extremely tough and warlike people. But at the same time when presented with a different option, Nomads are very quick to abandon their ways, which is why they rapidly get assimilated into settled Chinese/Middle Eastern Cultures every time some Nomad Ruler conquers these places.

  7. 7 months ago
    Anonymous

    sex with central asian women

  8. 7 months ago
    Anonymous

    >Did nomads live better lives than sedentary people on average?

    they were MUCH healthier than sedentarycucks. rough lifestyle makes for strong people

  9. 7 months ago
    Anonymous
    • 7 months ago
      Anonymous

      Thats a germanic migration era man you retarded nagger

      • 7 months ago
        Anonymous

        mad chink detected

        • 7 months ago
          Anonymous

          Im not even chink but ok retard

    • 7 months ago
      Anonymous

      the hunter gatherer skull is so cool that he has his own sunglasses

  10. 7 months ago
    Anonymous

    The fact that almost every steppe people would become agriculturalists about 10 minutes after they managed to take over some agricultural land would argue that it kind of sucks.

  11. 7 months ago
    Anonymous

    >old times bad
    why?
    >they were harder
    so more satisfying
    >then why dont you go live that way
    you will shoot me if I try
    >but I dont want to live that way
    You wouldnt know because you havent had the chance.

    • 7 months ago
      Anonymous

      >you will shoot me if I try
      Who is going to shoot you? You know that nomadic tribes still exist right? Nobody seems to shoot them...

    • 7 months ago
      Anonymous

      You're a firstie who doesn't struggle every day.

    • 7 months ago
      Anonymous

      >why?
      A lot of posts explained why. Food is tough. Life is hard work and struggle. Steppe life ain't easy.
      >so more satisfying
      That's one way to look at it, I guess.
      >you will shoot me if I try
      The west didn't even stop a bunch of its own civilians leaving for Ukraine to participate in the war there, and even lets people go to Syria to do the same. You can go do whatever you want, just know if you do illegal stuff you aren't welcomed back.

      And steppe people still do exists. You can go to Mongolia or something or buy some nowhere land in the Midwestern US.
      >You wouldnt know because you havent had the chance.
      You sound like of those insufferable people who think if they got isekai'd back a few hundred years they'd conquer the world like Caesar cause it's alll sooo siiimmmpleeee.

      • 7 months ago
        Anonymous

        Not that guy. I think steppe life would be shit after like a week but it is true that you can’t really “join” them either now or in the past. Nomads have very insular communities and don’t have room for outsiders who weren’t born into the clan. Now they’d tell you to fuck off. Back then they’d probably just stab you and steal your shit. Historically when people have become nomads it’s a whole community that decides to abandon its village for some reason like famine. And humans weren’t built to survive on the steppe alone

        • 7 months ago
          Anonymous

          Modern nomads now just make filthy ger quarters in the outskirts of cities whenever they need to do something in town and then fuck back off with the herds in the steppes during grazing season.

          Thats in Mongolia and Nei Mongol. The stans meanwhile are mostly urban dwellers.

  12. 7 months ago
    Anonymous

    Depends on the time period. The Mongol Empire at it's height was famously safe, public safety was better than in European states. Before that Mongolia was an anarchic shithole on the level of '90s Afghanistan.

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