Why was the Soviet Union so incredibly inefficient?
- This topic is empty.
-
AuthorPosts
-
-
January 11, 2021 at 5:19 pm #60296
-
January 11, 2021 at 5:22 pm #60297
Anonymous
GuestThe commies were in a catch 22. Because there was only one party no one could take down corrupt party members through any sort of official process and the party didn’t want to go after corruption because then they would have to admit corruption existed which would make them look bad. They just pretended it wasn’t real until it destroyed the people’s faith in the party.
-
January 12, 2021 at 2:44 am #60326
Anonymous
Guestthis
basically people were afraid to critisize their ideology
if you’re afraid to critizise ANYTHING, be it the state, the garden gnomes, allah or god you SHOULD. -
January 12, 2021 at 3:06 am #60338
Anonymous
Guest>the party didn’t want to go after corruption because then they would have to admit corruption existed which would make them look bad.
Not true. Under the short-lived Andropov leadership, there was actually a huge crackdown on corruption that was allowed to fester during the Brezhnev era. It would have likely continued had Andropov lived longer to implement reforms aimed at making central planning more efficient and responsive to consumer demands, but Gorbachev gently caressed it all up with full-fledged liberalization that undid the entire economic system. -
January 12, 2021 at 3:08 am #60341
Anonymous
GuestPlenty of one party states can deal with corruption. I mean the soviets had Trotsky to deal with rogue elements prior and that worked out pretty well.
The purge was theoretically to get rid of corrupt and venal party members, but of course it had the opposite effect.Fun fact: most soviet industries had their output measured in weight, not amount actually made
As a result, factory overseers would just make heavier and larger than necessary things.
For example, look at Soviet nails. They’re gently caressing huge for no reason other than it helped make the shipments weigh more
Another thing I read once is that even towards to the end of the Soviet Union, they still had insanely inefficient practices, like floating cut trees down rivers to a sawmill to be refined, even though this meant losing up to 40% of the logs
While the "Measuring efficiency by weight" was totally a real thing, the soviet nail story is not, nor are the logging practises out of the ordinary.
-
-
January 11, 2021 at 5:22 pm #60298
Anonymous
GuestFun fact: most soviet industries had their output measured in weight, not amount actually made
As a result, factory overseers would just make heavier and larger than necessary things.
For example, look at Soviet nails. They’re gently caressing huge for no reason other than it helped make the shipments weigh more
Another thing I read once is that even towards to the end of the Soviet Union, they still had insanely inefficient practices, like floating cut trees down rivers to a sawmill to be refined, even though this meant losing up to 40% of the logs
-
January 11, 2021 at 5:58 pm #60299
Anonymous
GuestWhy are westoids so gullible? Is it the fluoride?
-
January 11, 2021 at 6:30 pm #60301
Anonymous
Guest> Why was the Soviet Union so damn inefficient?
> Why was it so damn corrupt?The forced “equality” within Communism means there is little incentive to improve; why bust your ass at work when it’ll get you nothing and you’ll still be stuck living in the same commieblock apartment next to the guy who doesn’t give a gently caress.
Also the oppressive nature of Communism meant interactions between subordinates and higher ups became a quasi-medieval system of patronage; you backed up your boss so that you’d gain benefits and he backed you up to create a powerbase to move up the ladder or at least maintain his position, so there was little incentive in complaining to higher ups about your ineffective boss as you’ll lose your patron if he’s fired and little reason to crack down on those below you, as you’d lose your powerbase.
Thus everybody lied to everybody else up and down the chain of command; a collective farm was ordered by Moscow to produce 10 ons of grain but because Communism is a shit system, the tractor broke down, they didn’t get enough fertilizer, etc. and only 7 tons were produced.
So workers lied to the manager and said 10 tons were produced, who lied to his boss, who lied to his boss and so on up the chain with everybody involved finding excuses and pointing fingers at others for the shortage claiming it wasn’t their fault and Moscow couldn’t really do anything but accept those 7 tons of grain, because they were the ones calling the shots and that meant admitting Communism was a shit system.
-
January 11, 2021 at 9:27 pm #60305
Anonymous
Guest>The forced “equality” within Communism means there is little incentive to improve; why bust your ass at work when it’ll get you nothing and you’ll still be stuck living in the same commieblock apartment next to the guy who doesn’t give a gently caress.
Not only that. There was actually a negative pressure to innovate.
You see, in capitalist societies you can expect to be rewarded for an innovation. You may get a hefty salary as an innovative engineer, simply because your employer wants to keep you and not risk you finding another workplace. Or you may patent some shit an reap the rewards yourself.
In communist there was little of such award available. There was, for example, no alternative employer you could go to if your current boss is a hack. In fact, as an innovator you might had been seen as a threat to the position of your factory director or your local party leader. It was in your best interest to keep to yourself. Especially since your idea would probably never be implemented due to lack of technical expertise or materials.
-
January 12, 2021 at 3:01 am #60333
Anonymous
Guest>In communist there was little of such award available
t. Someone who has never read anything about the USSRThis thread is just horrible boomer tier responses.
The USSR wasn’t horribly inefficient, that being said they had bad economic practices in place. Shared ownership of the means of production was problematic for factories, who would sometimes under-produce to receive more capital. They couldn’t do this every year otherwise they would be sacked, or in some cases shot, but it would happen. They had a persistent shortage of consumer goods, which is another big reason why they went belly up. They over spent on their military because they thought they needed to. They gave away too much in foreign aid, including rebuilding Eastern Europe after the industrialized parts of their nation had been flattened in the largest war human history has ever seen. Leaders kept getting older, more decrepid, and refused to modernize the economy to keep pace with global trends.
Idk I’m simplifying a lot here but that’s a part of it.
-
January 12, 2021 at 3:02 am #60336
Anonymous
GuestNo that’s all made up, FIAT owned the auto industry, various western companies owned other stuff. Communism is just a market economy.
-
January 12, 2021 at 3:10 am #60342
Anonymous
GuestFIAT didn’t enter the country until 1970 and it was built on a license. It never owned the auto industry nor did it ever come close. You need to cite a source other than your poopyhole to prove otherwise.
-
January 12, 2021 at 3:12 am #60345
Anonymous
Guesthttps://www.google.com/search?q=ford+soviet+car+industry&oq=ford+soviet+car+industry&aqs=chrome..69i57j33i22i29i30l4.3340j0j7&client=ms-android-tmus-us-revc&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8
Literally took seconds. The post cooldown is far more time
West created communism.
-
-
-
-
-
-
January 11, 2021 at 6:57 pm #60302
Anonymous
GuestEven for private businesses with less procedure, less bureaucracy, less oversight (thus, more efficient), it is difficult to predict supply and demand from a population. You can only imagine how inefficient a bureaucratic, centrally-planner, slow-moving institution would be enormously incapable of doing exactly this. The link below typically refers to a 3-5 year cycle in consumer-producer relationships.
-
January 11, 2021 at 9:05 pm #60304
Anonymous
GuestThe real communism hasn’t been in URSS.
Marx:
>For communism we should first a capitalist country like Germany, UK, France or USA, and industrial.
After, evolve in socialism.
And the end in communism.Russian
>Take ours peasant country with no economics and no industry and make communism now ! -
January 11, 2021 at 9:34 pm #60306
Anonymous
Guest>Is a poor corrupt authoritarian shithole ruled by incompetents
>Goes through a revolution
>>Is still a poor corrupt authoritarian shithole ruled by incompetents
Same with china. You can’t expect things to instantly change just because there was a civil war. There’s still no civil society, it’s still a one party state with no free speech so you get a pork cycle as the other anon pointed out.This is a problem with all one party states really, and not communism in particular. People argue that without needing to be beholden to the shortsighted whims of the masses, party leadership can make the hard and unpopular, but necessary, policy choices. This is unfortunately just a fantasy. A one party state selects it’s leaders not based on who is actually the most capable, but rather on who is the shrewdest operator of party politics. That’s how you end up with monsters like stalin in a position of supreme authority.
-
January 12, 2021 at 10:15 am #60374
Anonymous
Guest>A one party state selects it’s leaders not based on who is actually the most capable, but rather on who is the shrewdest operator of party politics
Have you ever heard of demagogues and populists in past and today democracies?
-
-
January 11, 2021 at 9:35 pm #60307
Anonymous
GuestIt comes from the fact that communism doesnt work. The free market sets the price, then that determines how much resource is allocated to that. Central planning doesnt have that, so a couple old farts in an office need to decide how to move the whole economy, while also having their own best interests as a priority. Suprisingly, giving very few people the task of controlling all of the economy leads to some mistakes (innefficiencies). All the lieing about meeting quotas, deadlines, and standards, all came from the fact that a few people at the top who had the power to make your life a lot harder couldnt accept that their idealogy was wrong. Obviuosly all the lieing then creates lots more inefficiency and lots of room for corruption.
-
January 11, 2021 at 9:37 pm #60309
Anonymous
GuestPrices are meaningless, oil is it’s own input and everything is priced on energy. So under capitalism prices are an arbitrary value determined by land rent and the products (iphones, coal) are utterly worthless
-
-
January 11, 2021 at 9:41 pm #60310
Anonymous
GuestThe command economy assumes competent leadership and accurate information. If the information given to the leadership is not accurate they can not correct for inefficiencies.
This, I would assume, is the reason for the inefficiency of the soviet Union, if indeed, it was inefficient. -
January 11, 2021 at 10:02 pm #60311
Anonymous
GuestNo free pricing mechanism. Some market economies had similar problems when they introduced price controls.
Also, the incentive structure for industry leaders was less directly based on fulfilling actual consumer demands, which are complex and constantly evolving, but fulfilling a priori criteria instead. There weren’t only shortages in the USSR, but also extreme industrial surpluses* and lower quality grades overall than in the west. The guy in charge of the shoe factory doesn’t lose money on the shoes he doesn’t sell, nor does the guy in charge of the shoe store. Instead, the guy in charge of the shoe factory could get a bonus or a promotion if he went over the quota set for shoe production, so producing more shoes that don’t fit many people’s feet or that look ugly isn’t really a strike against the business-executive-equivalent because.
*Most western countries actually have the same type of wastefulness on agriculture, a sector which is heavily and disproportionately subsidized.
-
January 11, 2021 at 10:05 pm #60312
Anonymous
GuestAll dumb answers, all answers ITT are the same and dumb thing about liberals
-
January 11, 2021 at 10:06 pm #60313
Anonymous
GuestYou ignore that communism is just a normal market economy with some paperwork change and central plans are just 100 page marketing documents
-
January 12, 2021 at 1:52 am #60316
Anonymous
GuestCan’t tell if you are being ironic.
-
January 12, 2021 at 1:53 am #60318
Anonymous
GuestIts obvious, for example western contractors created magnitogorsk. Car industry exported to the west.
Central planning is meaningless you get all your knowledge from the history channel.
-
-
-
-
January 12, 2021 at 1:49 am #60314
-
January 12, 2021 at 1:53 am #60319
Anonymous
GuestThe inherent problem with leftism is that it cannot calculate. Because it cannot calculate, it can’t efficiently allocate resources.
-
January 12, 2021 at 1:58 am #60320
Anonymous
GuestMoronic; capitalism isnt profitable, everyone is dumb and all profit under capitalsim is fraud and stupidity which is why apple is half the stock market.
-
January 12, 2021 at 1:59 am #60321
-
January 12, 2021 at 2:01 am #60322
Anonymous
GuestiPhones are worthless. Before then the market was dominated by railway companies which were state monopolies and frauded investors.
Car dealers arent profitable, the industries that matter arent profitable and capitalism doesnt exist in the sense of profit mattering.
-
-
-
-
January 12, 2021 at 2:31 am #60323
Anonymous
GuestGovernment-run things are usually inefficient. Think of going to get some government documents and how much of a hassle it is compared to buying something from Walmart or a privately-owned store at the mall. In USSR the government ran everything.
-
January 12, 2021 at 2:34 am #60324
Anonymous
GuestYet another dumb and precisely identical response. Communism is just a market economy.
-
-
January 12, 2021 at 2:43 am #60325
Anonymous
GuestBecause they used a centrally planned economy in which state planners made guesses what people needed instead markets themselves.
-
January 12, 2021 at 2:46 am #60327
Anonymous
GuestDumb response number 900. Before 1928 they didnt even have plans and then the plans themselves are just little marketing pamphlets. Exmaple https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://niti.gov.in/planningcommission.gov.in/docs/plans/planrel/fiveyr/welcome.html&ved=2ahUKEwjKkOO6sJXuAhXhJzQIHZqQDXQQFjAEegQIeBAB&usg=AOvVaw3fStit686ZtSp9NBeheK4w from a modern plan
-
-
January 12, 2021 at 2:52 am #60328
Anonymous
Guest>Why was the Soviet Union so damn inefficient?
Because if you run a factory and don’t meet your quota you get more funding.If you run a factory and meet your quota you get the same amount of funding and the expectation to do at least as good next year and if you do worse you look like an incompetent.
-
January 12, 2021 at 2:54 am #60329
Anonymous
GuestDumb response as always. Literallt entire thread is meme responses from people who have never done research.
Quotas didnt matter, it’s just liberals
-
January 12, 2021 at 2:56 am #60330
Anonymous
GuestOk. Then why did it fail?
-
January 12, 2021 at 2:57 am #60331
Anonymous
GuestResource depletion. Same as literally every other civilization.
-
January 12, 2021 at 3:00 am #60332
Anonymous
GuestAre you retarded?
-
January 12, 2021 at 3:01 am #60334
Anonymous
GuestFail; try again; see statistics. Give me 15 seconds to hit the button because it was so easy to respond.
-
-
January 12, 2021 at 3:01 am #60335
Anonymous
GuestThat’s entirely ass backwards.
You run out of resources because of mismanagement. You don’t mismanage because of a lack of resources.
-
January 12, 2021 at 3:04 am #60337
Anonymous
GuestLiterally retarded and not logically possible response. Fantastic.
-
-
January 12, 2021 at 3:06 am #60339
Anonymous
Guest>Resource depletion
What resources were depleted in the USSR? Food? Wood? Water? Minerals? All of that shit is still around today in the CIS countries-
January 12, 2021 at 3:07 am #60340
Anonymous
GuestOil obviously. I’m going to stop responding
-
January 12, 2021 at 3:11 am #60343
Anonymous
Guestoil wasn’t depleted, the prices crashed because OPEC intentionally overproduced
-
January 12, 2021 at 3:11 am #60344
Anonymous
GuestGibberish media response, think for yourself.
-
-
January 12, 2021 at 3:13 am #60346
Anonymous
Guest>The petroleum industry in Russia is one of the largest in the world. Russia has the largest reserves and is the largest exporter of natural gas.[1] It has the second largest coal reserves, the eighth largest oil reserves, and is one of the largest producers of oil.[2] It is the third largest energy user.[3]
Hmmm-
January 12, 2021 at 3:14 am #60348
Anonymous
GuestDumb response; you display no effort. There is simply no point in responding. Read their oil production history.
-
January 12, 2021 at 4:30 am #60359
Anonymous
Guest>Read their oil production history.
But not producing oil doesn’t mean you don’t have the resource, it means you’re not taking it out of the ground and refining it. I mean, the resource is still there, you’re just not exploiting it well.
-
January 12, 2021 at 4:32 am #60360
Anonymous
GuestUgh. Such low iq.
-
-
-
-
January 12, 2021 at 3:13 am #60347
Anonymous
GuestThe caucases have oil though…
-
January 12, 2021 at 3:18 am #60353
Anonymous
Guestare you intentionally being retarded
-
January 12, 2021 at 3:19 am #60355
Anonymous
GuestObviously you are; I presented citations.
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
January 12, 2021 at 3:14 am #60350
-
January 12, 2021 at 3:15 am #60351
Anonymous
Guest*same guy
-
January 12, 2021 at 3:19 am #60354
Anonymous
GuestThey are, and he says the same things. Kinda funny, but we shouldn’t laugh at the Autistic
-
January 12, 2021 at 3:20 am #60356
Anonymous
GuestYour worldview is made up; you dont even attempt to support it. You even acknowledged fiat owned the car industry.
-
January 12, 2021 at 3:26 am #60357
Anonymous
Guest>You even acknowledged fiat owned the car industry.
I did no such thing. Probably for the best you derailed this thread though, the responses were boomer-tier retards who don’t know the USSR never achieved Communism to begin with, only Auth Socialist.-
January 12, 2021 at 3:27 am #60358
Anonymous
GuestThen you’re just gibberish.
Construction industry was private, as was farming. Things were only nationalized in that foreign companies owned them.
-
-
-
-
-
January 12, 2021 at 4:34 am #60361
Anonymous
GuestTL;DR Communism is fake and gay
-
January 12, 2021 at 4:35 am #60362
Anonymous
GuestYeah its just a market economy with window dressing.
-
-
January 12, 2021 at 7:16 am #60366
Anonymous
GuestThis is one of the worst threads I’ve ever read.
-
January 12, 2021 at 7:25 am #60370
Anonymous
GuestYes, communism is just a market economy and theres nothing to discuss except made up stories about nails.
-
-
January 12, 2021 at 7:23 am #60368
Anonymous
Guestpure incompetence they would do ludicrous shit like produce a left shoe in ukraine and a right shoe in kazakhstan under some dumb anti-work pretense
-
January 12, 2021 at 7:25 am #60369
Anonymous
GuestThe periphery regions were not taken care of and were only designed for resource hoarding.
-
January 12, 2021 at 7:29 am #60371
Anonymous
GuestIn the big picture the Soviet Union was way too large to be manageable. The governors had and still rarely have true care for their regions of governance, and the logistics are a piece of shit. Sure one can boast about channels and railroads being built, but the yields of co-operation on such a territory were simply not as beneficial as some balkanized territories could have been.
-
January 12, 2021 at 7:31 am #60372
Anonymous
GuestThis is an example of a dumb response that’s made up and doenst have any verifiable information. Becuase communism is just the same as capitalism and theres no point in this thread.
-
-
January 12, 2021 at 7:49 am #60373
Anonymous
Guest>Why was it so damn corrupt?
Nobody wanted to report bad news, because it was a good way to be seen as a troublemaker. If you bring bad news, you become associated with disruptions to the Party’s plans. Very easy then for your rivals to claim you are disloyal, or a counter-revolutionary, or whatever the boogeyman du jour is. So in this atmosphere of fear, lying becomes normal. Once people lower in the food chain realize their boss has been covering up their mistakes in order to keep up appearances, they realize they can just bribe him to look the other way while they start running various side hustles on the black market. This weakens the overall economy of the Union, but everybody involved directly in the scheme profits. The people in a position to report on it are either bribed or intimidated to remain silent.You see this exact problem a lot in modern day China. People in charge lie to the Party so they don’t get accused of incompetence or disloyalty, the people immediately beneath them notice and take advantage to set up back alley operations for personal profit, and the cycle of corruption begins.
-
January 12, 2021 at 1:53 pm #60375
Anonymous
Guest>Why was the Soviet Union so damn inefficient?
russians
>Was it really an inherent issue of a command economy?
yes
> Or was it down to corruption?
yes
>Why was it so damn corrupt?
russians
-
-
AuthorPosts
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.