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Why was it just Europeans that came to America? How is it that not a single Korean, Japanese, or Chinese man ever dreamt of finding land across the sea?
Before you say anything, let me outline what confuses me.
>California wasn’t even touched by the Spanish until the mid to late 1700’s
>a massive period of time took place between Columbus discovering the new world (even though he thought it was the old, people found out it wasn’t quickly after) and the settlement of the north American west coast
>the Chinese knew about America in the 1600’s
>Colonies don’t always have colonial Charters. Connecticut was settled by English who merely sailed there and started their own colony with no royal approval
>Chinese “colonial” republics were established in Indonesia by seafaring merchants yet none of them ever decided to sail east instead of south to found a colony
Why did not a single Asian adventurer ever set foot in America? Do their cultures discourage wanderlust? -
why would they go to a backwards and uncivilised place filled with barbarians? What could barbarians offer the son of heaven or to the celestial empire?
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>single Asian adventurer
Polynesians did, but they are honorary whites -
1. The Pacific is beeeeg, much bigger than the atlantic
2. There were just better places for Chinese who didn’t want to live in China to settle, hence the colonies all over Southeast Asia.
3. Their cultures absolutely discourage wanderlust-
>The Pacific is beeeeg, much bigger than the atlantic
this.
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the ancestors of the native americans made it all the way across on much more primitive vessels. why not the east asians?
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The fuck are you on about, Native Americans didn’t sail to the Americas, they either crossed the Bering Strait and followed the coast downwards into the Americas or waited until the glaciers opened and moved downwards. The only Asians that made it to the Americas were the Polynesians and that was around 1000 years before Columbus.
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>The only Asians that made it to the Americas were the Polynesians and that was around 1000 years before Columbus.
This is exactly what I mean. They were able to do so on rafts and canoes. Why then could the east asians, who had much better ships not do the same?-
East Asians had more primitive mathematics than Polynesians.
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>source: your poopyhole
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The lands of the Ming and their immediate trading partners already provided more than enough for a robust economy. In terms of carrying capacity and wealth distribution, it was far more sensible to just develop their agriculture and economy domestically with some input from tariffed and controlled trade avenues. It’s only with several centuries of hindsight that we know just how profitable the Americas were.
And onto geography, not only is the Pacific huge, crossing the North Pacific is far more perilous than the South Pacific or the Atlantic. You’re basically bombarded by strong winds, irregular currents, constant storms and practically nowhere to gain respite from the elements until you reach the Americas or find Hawai’i. Kuril Islands are a no go unless you have experienced Siberians with you.
>How is it that not a single Korean, Japanese, or Chinese
Oda Nobunaga may have but his primary political objective was not yet complete at the time of his death.The ancestors of Native Americans came over the Beringian Landbridge
Firstly, the Polynesians didn’t sail in canoes. Their ship design was actually something that had been a reliable ocean-going vessel for millennia and Islanders have been perfecting it ever since. Plus, theirs was a culture that had myriad acute navigational techniques and their own class of dedicated way-farers. To really drive the point home, the ancestors of Polynesians were, along with the Phoenicians, the first people to reliably travel over open ocean, not just hug coasts.
>east asians, who had much better ships
The junks of China were not at all more suited for long, open-ocean voyages than the proa of the Austronesians. They were slower, lower distance, high capacity trading ships. They were designed to facilitate the ease of high volume resource exchange in the calmer Indian Ocean and to enter more narrow waterways and harbors.-
In China there was a group who favored exploration and sea trading, but they did not have as much influence as land-woke af merchants and army guys who were paranoid about another Mongol invasion. Zheng He had a large fleet but it was eventually abandoned.
Follow up question: why did China not do any sea trade after it became clear it was easy money for Europe? Turkey eventually built ships of the line and frigates in the European style but never them.
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>why did China not do any sea trade
In what sense? They traded pretty far, it’s just that people often came to them.
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>Zheng He had a large fleet but it was eventually abandoned.
Pretty sure Zheng He merely aimed to announce that China is open for sea trade again.
>Follow up question: why did China not do any sea trade
China-SEA-India-Arabia sea trade has been going on for millenia and is more extensive than any overland trade, it’s what the Portugese co-opted for themselves.
Shame I don’t have the trade routes diagram saved.
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>came over on the landbridge
not all of them, arrowheads have been found across north america that predate it
>polynesians
we’re not talking about modern ones here, those vessels are relatively new and it has not been proved those who first made the trip to the americas would have had them
>better ships
i was overly simplistic here, apologies. what i meant to say was that the technologies surrounding sailing in east asia were much better. europeans were able to build a variety of vessels to fill different niches, i have yet to find any good reason east asians did not do the same.-
>europeans were able to build a variety of vessels to fill different niches, i have yet to find any good reason east asians did not do the same.
Dude, the Chinese were prolific, they just turned inwards and stopped caring about the rest of the world because they knew they were at the top.
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>The junks of China were not at all more suited for long, open-ocean voyages than the proa of the Austronesians. They were slower, lower distance, high capacity trading ships.
read the post he’s replying to next time -
It’s not "sis China stopped trying cause they won" it was the local elites who were backward and worried the sea merchants would get too powerful so lobbied the emperor to put a stop to it. And that ended their short reign as sea power
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>not all of them, arrowheads have been found across north america that predate it
I actually discussed why I don’t think that’s likely here[…]
>those vessels are relatively new
I’m certain the robust double-hull proas like vakas and kaulua have been around since at least the 1000s or so, when Hawai’i and Tahiti were settled. Hell there’s evidence of people living in the Caroline Islands and the rest of Micronesia in the 200s.
But even so, the Malagasy show us that even older catamarans are capable of transoceanic voyaging.
>what i meant to say was that the technologies surrounding sailing in east asia were much better
That’s not necessarily accurate either. Once again, Polynesian societies had an entire class of people dedicated to navigation at an early age. Novel navigational technology just means you can divorce part of the act of navigation from the individual; it does not mean the actual act of sea-faring is any easier.
Besides, one point I forgot to mention is that the Polynesians who crossed the Pacific also had an acute understanding of the islands, currents and seasons over the ocean. The Chinese had no such experience with the far less forgiving North Pacific.Follow up question: why did China not do any sea trade after it became clear it was easy money for Europe? Turkey eventually built ships of the line and frigates in the European style but never them.
There may have been an element of ethnic distrust as well as the domestic. A lot of prominent sailors were ethnic minorities (like the Hakka, Zheng He was from a Muslim faimly) or straight up foreigners (usually Malays).
> why did China not do any sea trade
They did a lot of it over the Indian Ocean. It practically provided all the consumer luxuries they needed (ivory, spices, exotic fruit, precious metals, etc.) At some point it became the Song and Ming’s personal plaything. Pacific trade was a whole nother dimension. Even the Spaniards had trouble profiting off of shipping lanes connecting Mexico to the Philippines.
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>the ancestors of Polynesians were, along with the Phoenicians, the first people to reliably travel over open ocean, not just hug coasts.
When will people stop glorifying the Phoenicians? They got all their technology from the Fryans, who perfected it much earlier-
>Fryans
huh?-
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>WE WUZ
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There was an ancient worldwide Frisian civilization. Coincidentally, all of the possible evidence gets destroyed or "lost" so all we can do is piece it together from hints such as the whiteness of early mummies all around the world, the swastika and other designs that seem to always follow them, the way that white people ALWAYS create a civilization when given half a chance but all other races seem to be copying the European system and then devolving back into unsophisticated violent tribalism as soon as white influence is gone or lessened.
You provided no evidence or sources for anything relevant and you claim that Phoenicians were "the first people to reliably travel over open ocean", so provide some proof of this. Oh you can’t provide proof because we can’t trace the influence of cultures? Okay then, you have zero reason to argue against the proposition that Frisians developed civilization culture and spread it, it is the most likely explanation woke af on what we can piece together so maybe sit down, shut up and listen for once?
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>There was an ancient worldwide Frisian civilization.
There are two things I can’t stand: People who are intolerant of other people’s cultures, and the Dutch.
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Imagine if North America smashed into east Asia? How big will the mountains be? Amasia super continent.
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>The Pacific is beeeeg, much bigger than the atlantic
this is the main reason, also sea travel was hella dangerous back then -
>The Pacific is beeeeg, much bigger than the atlantic
this.
Keep in mind a couple of things on that too. One is that without prior knowledge of the tiny handful of islands in the center of the thing, it’s just one giant ‘kill you slow’ death trap. The weather is also unpredictable compared to the Atlantic and as if that wasn’t bad enough, special technologies had to be developed to prevent regular massive fatalities from diseases like scurvy on trans pacific voyages. Even the Manila galleons REGULARLY lost half their crew. This ocean makes the Atlantic seem like a nice pond.
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>The weather is also unpredictable compared to the Atlantic and
it’s a calmer ocean than the Atlantic and not as prone to storms
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>1. The Pacific is beeeeg, much bigger than the atlantic
not really that much bigger, in the way that’s relevant here-
Yes it is. Northern Pacific Passage is less favourable than the Atlantic crossing, considering currents, weather conditions, etc.
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>In 1312 the predecessor of Mansa Musa of Mali abandoned his easy life as a sultan to find where the Atlantic ends
>He left with hundreds of ships but never returned
What could’ve been… -
because the Yellow River Basin of Han China is extremely rich in natural resources and agriculture. China had everything they needed at home to be the numba wan economy for many, many centuries. the idea of sucking resources out of other countries via overseas colonization would make no sense to China, especially since pretty much all of East Asia was their puppet-tributary state in one way or another at some point already
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This lel
The discovery of the Americas only happened thanks to the spice trade after all – it wasn’t some purely European love of adventure
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Korea was blocked in and the Japanese killed Nobunaga.
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>Do their cultures discourage wanderlust?
freaking hell, read about Zheng He, and what happened to him
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They never had boats capable of long-distance open sea journeys. The reason for that is because they were not as smart or as accomplished as you think they were (the Japanese, at least, had the humility to recognise their backwardness).
Don’t be fooled by Chinese chauvinists.-
Are you mentally scrotebrained?
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The Keying is mildly interesting, notwithstanding the fact that it sailed in the mid-19th Century, and was staffed and captained by Europeans, using European sailing routes. A novelty. For a more realistic gauge of what travelling open seas in a junk was like, look up Richard Halliburton and his Sea Dragon.
The treasure voyages, however, even taking their dubious historicity for granted, never sailed further than a hundred miles or so from the coast. The Chinese never reached the Americas because they couldn’t. It’s no more complex than that.-
>The treasure voyages, however, even taking their dubious historicity
They sailed from Malaysia to Sri Lanka across open ocean.
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Shit map
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Also it took Europe over a century to start heavy duty colonization of North America (at least north of Mexico, which was already developed).
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West Africans tried but failed.
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Another aspect of this that people are not mentioning is the incredible size of the Pacific Ocean. China is nearly twice as far from the New World as Europe.
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not true, the distance is more or less the same
and there are a ton of islands in the pacific-
>and there are a ton of islands in the pacific
In the South Pacific not the north mostly. -
>not true, the distance is more or less the same
Magellan’s boys nearly freaking died crossing it just with their 2nd leg supplies and they expected that the ocean would be as wide as the pacific.
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>ITT: Historylets.
Because China is the smack in the center of global trade while the Euroscrotes are the furthest from the main Eurasian trade routes.
In the 1400s when the first Euroscrote states- the Iberian Kingdoms- stopped being feudal clusterfucks and demanded more revenue for stat expenses, they wanted to be involved with the Eurasian trade.Problem is the Italians and the Muslim States had a monopoly on the Mediterranean trade, so the Iberians wanted a more direct access to the riches of the East. So they entertained explorers who have been yammering about sailing West to reach East and when Spain entertained one of these, they accidentally discovered the Americas instead.
Euroscrotes reached the Americas not because they were special snowflakes with the spirit of discovery: they were desperate scrotes who wanted to get connected to the Eurasian Trade. Its quite telling that despite this discovery of new lands, Spain became super jealous of Portugal when they beat them to the East after Vasco Da Gama discovered the passage south of Africa and into the Indian Ocean, which led Spain to launch Magellan’s expedition a few decades later in their obsession to reach the East.
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>Do their cultures discourage wanderlust?
Yeah dude, it did. Which is why Japanese mercenaries roved around in Asia Pacific, Chinese merchant clans regularly defied the Civilian sea-travel Ban of the Ming & Qing Dynasties and even built Ancap Merchant Republics in their trading Colonies in Southeast Asia to aid in defying these bans, and Sino-Japanese Pirates made the South China Seas a nightmare for maritime nations in the region.They totally had no spirit of adventure and just stayed in China/Japan like good subjects. Unlike all those government-funded European explorers.
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>Do their cultures discourage wanderlust?
Yeah dude, it did. Which is why Japanese mercenaries roved around in Asia Pacific, Chinese merchant clans regularly defied the Civilian sea-travel Ban of the Ming & Qing Dynasties and even built Ancap Merchant Republics in their trading Colonies in Southeast Asia to aid in defying these bans, and Sino-Japanese Pirates made the South China Seas a nightmare for maritime nations in the region.They totally had no spirit of adventure and just stayed in China/Japan like good subjects. Unlike all those government-funded European explorers.
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Facts don’t care fore your feelings :^)
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Magellan’s expedition was a bit more complicated than that; the goal was actually to go across the pacific ocean back and forth for the spaniards to be able to reach east asia in their own routes. The reason magellan died was because he waited too long for favourable winds to carry him from the philippines to america, rather than follow estabilished portuguese trade routes and do a complete circumnavigation.
And columbus expedition wasn’t really that interesting for europeans, since the portuguese already knew there were lands there and all the spaniards knew was that he arrived at some islands. Cortez’s expedition was far more relevant for european interests.
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scrote cope
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>it’s heckin woke af and redpilled to be a locust for moloch
Lmao, I’m counting the days until you boomerlings are wiped from the face of the earth-
Yellow hands typed this.
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>Do their cultures discourage wanderlust?
Yeah dude, it did. Which is why Japanese mercenaries roved around in Asia Pacific, Chinese merchant clans regularly defied the Civilian sea-travel Ban of the Ming & Qing Dynasties and even built Ancap Merchant Republics in their trading Colonies in Southeast Asia to aid in defying these bans, and Sino-Japanese Pirates made the South China Seas a nightmare for maritime nations in the region.They totally had no spirit of adventure and just stayed in China/Japan like good subjects. Unlike all those government-funded European explorers.
Reminder that the chinkshills on this board are mentally-ill Filipinos with identity crises
https://desuarchive.org/int/search/text/ancap%20merchant%20republic/-
Woke af for making all these whitoids seethe with obvious bait. No wonder garden gnome can cuck them so easily
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>mentally-ill Filipinos with identity crises
Filipino. Just one dude. Which is me.>Shill
Also I remember flatly stating out I’m a Chink-Flip in that thread.I actually started off as a Weeab deep into Japanese history, which I find is often a gateway drug into Chinese history. So whenever you see long texts about East Asian, specifically Japanese and Chinese history (that’s not about rape and cuckoldry) that’s usually me.
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>chink, spic, flip mutt
no wonder you’re the way you are-
If you must know, I work for a library. There’s damn near nothing for me to do most of the day and most of what I do is related to the humanities anyway.
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you seem alright
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"The Ming treasure voyages were the seven maritime expeditions by Ming China’s treasure fleet between 1405 and 1433. The Yongle Emperor initiated the construction of the treasure fleet in 1403." (Wikipedia)
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because chink didn’t have solid seafaring tradition beyond hugging the coast and rivers, and everyone in east asia copied chink soo
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>because chink didn’t have solid seafaring tradition beyond hugging the coast and rivers
>Is somehow all over the Asia Pacific
Lol-
>ignoring the "hugging the coast" part
life is so convenient isn’t it?-
>Sails to the Philippines regularly
Yeah. Coasthugging.
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They don’t even have a concept of doing something on your own initiative.
Every Asian, all they want to do is die for the Emperor. Emperor Ching-Chong-Wing-Wong who literally lives in a forbidden city in a forbidden palace and they’re not even allowed to smell a flower that he farted on.
And they all think that’s just freaking great and wonderful and we Westerners are nothing but dogs and animals because we have internal monologues and independent decision-making faculties in our brains.
To them, that’s as disgusting as wiping shit all over your face. What a bunch of hairy barbarians, having thoughts and opinions without even caring about the Emperor’s edicts. *Shudders*
God just wanted to experiment with giving insect-brains to human bodies and hence you have the Asian. It’s as simple as that.
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>1 billion people are this meme some chanshitter says they are
kek who keeps writing this cringy fan fiction anymore, what an embarrassment
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If it had been any dynasty but the Ming/post-Yuan buckbreak dynasty with their endless paranoia then they might’ve been more adventurous. But the Ming didn’t even advance beyond China proper, what would’ve made them go out at Sea?
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The Ming dynasty conquered and ruled Vietnam and Manchuria
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For only 20 years. Vietnam quickly recovered and raped the Ming giving them PTSD for a century.
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What PTSD did the Ming have? Things went on as normal.
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They were more traditionalist than before due to the trauma of being ruled by Mongols
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Are you an illiterate scrotebrain? What trauma did VIETNAM give to the Ming?
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zero-marking grammar
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero-marking_language
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Wrong. The Yuan dynasty went full traditionalist towards the end, destroying the Semu system and Han Chinese officers in the Yuan military like Chen Youding genocided Semu people in Fujian.
The Mongols exchanged populations at the beginning. Han Chinese soldiers, officers and officials were sent to Central Asia (Chagatai Khanate) and Xinjiang like Beshbaliq (Jimsar County), Samarkand and Bukhara to rule Central Asian Muslims while the Yuan sent Central Asian Muslims east to Korea and China as soldiers and officials.
The Chagatai Khanate was extremely anti Muslim and passed anti-Muslim laws discriminating against them while favouring Han Chinese officials over them while victims versa in the Yuan, the Central Asians became the Semu class.
But the Chagatai and Yuan both ended their policies in the 14th century. The Chagatai converted to Islam while the Yuan ended all Semu Central Asian Muslim privileges starting from the 1320s to the 1360s, stripping them of pensions, titles and stripping them of even their religious rights and favored Han Chinese officers like Chen Youding to genocide the Central Asian Muslims when the Muslims revolted against the Yuan in the 1350s Ispah rebellion. The Yuan passed laws enforcing Confucianism.
Chen Youding fought as a Yuan loyalist against the Ming. The Ming defeated him and took over Fujian which Chen Youding had cleared of hundreds of thousands or even millions of Semu Central Asians butchered in the Ispah rebellion in the 1350s-1360s.
The Ming is the sole reason Hui people still exist in China. The Yuan dynasty was helping genocide their Semu class and was reimposing full scale Han rule all over at the end, there would only be Mongols and Han in the Yuan lands.
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[…]
Mongols did not even have enough Mongols willing to move into China and garrison it.mongols relied on non-Mongol offiers and soldires for the majority of their military garrisons in non-Mongol regions. They shifted different ethnic soldiers to each other’s countries
Han Chinese generals and soldiers were shifted west by the Mongol empire to be stationed in Central Asia in Uyghur lands in Xinjiang, in Bukhara and Samarqand in Uzbekistan and Baghdad in Iraq, while Central Asian Muslim generals and soldiers were in turn shifted east to be stationed in China and Korea, so that the soldiers in each area would not conspire with he local populations against Mongols.
Mongols forced Korea to provide hundreds of thousands of virgin Korean girls and Korean boy eunuchs, and distrubited the Korean girls as gifts to their Central Asian Muslim and Han Chinese soldiers.
https://archived.moe/qa/thread/4601866/#q4601866
https://archived.moe/qa/thread/4609970/#q4609988The bulk of Mongols stayed as nomads in Mongolia and did not move into Han provinces. That’s why the last Yuan emperor fled to the steppes of Mongolia and continued reigning in Mongolia as the northern Yuan dynasty. The Mongols never integrated into the Han population.
today in China, the descendants of those Miongol empire and Yuan Central Asian garrisons and Korean women are the Hui Muslims. Despite speaking Chinese now and practicing similar culture now, they still identify as an entirely separate ethnicty from Han because of their paternal lineage, they trace their ancestry to Central Asian Muslims and identify as Hui, not as Korean or Han. There are 8.61 million Hui in China. The Salars are also descendants of Central Asian Muslim garrison under Mongol empire in China except their ancestors married Tibetan women so their culture is tinged with Tibetan but they never identify as Tibetan because of their paternal lineage.
Ok, Chang
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I doubt that’s true, Ajall Shams al-Din Omar’s descendants were yuan loyalists who fought against the Ming, I doubt they would be on the side of Yuan if Yuan was anti-muslim
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semu#Anti-Muslim_persecution_by_the_Yuan_dynasty_and_Ispah_rebellion
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ispah_rebellion
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chen_Youding
Han Yuan loyalists virtually genocided Central Asian Muslims in Southern Fujian and fought against the Ming dynasty in the name of the Yuan.
Ajall Shams al-Din Omar’s descendnts in Quanzhou, Fujian were the Ding family and they were forced to abandon Islam and become apostates after participating in the Ispah rebellion against the Yuan which killed 90% of the Sunni Muslim population of Quanzhou, after the Yuan passed multiple anti-Islam laws. And the remaining 10% were like the Ding family were forced to leave Islam and the are still non-Muslim today.
The Central Asian Sa family of Fuzhou also left Islam.
Only Ajall Shams al-Din Omar’s descendants in Yunnan and Ningxia (Na, Su, La, Ma families) remained in Islam.
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The Mongols exchanged populations at the beginning. Han Chinese soldiers, officers and officials were sent to Central Asia (Chagatai Khanate) and Xinjiang like Beshbaliq (Jimsar County), Samarkand and Bukhara to rule Central Asian Muslims while the Yuan sent Central Asian Muslims east to Korea and China as soldiers and officials.
The Chagatai Khanate was extremely anti Muslim and passed anti-Muslim laws discriminating against them while favouring Han Chinese officials over them while victims versa in the Yuan, the Central Asians became the Semu class.
But the Chagatai and Yuan both ended their policies in the 14th century. The Chagatai converted to Islam while the Yuan ended all Semu Central Asian Muslim privileges starting from the 1320s to the 1360s, stripping them of pensions, titles and stripping them of even their religious rights and favored Han Chinese officers like Chen Youding to genocide the Central Asian Muslims when the Muslims revolted against the Yuan in the 1350s Ispah rebellion. The Yuan passed laws enforcing Confucianism.
Chen Youding fought as a Yuan loyalist against the Ming. The Ming defeated him and took over Fujian which Chen Youding had cleared of hundreds of thousands or even millions of Semu Central Asians butchered in the Ispah rebellion in the 1350s-1360s.
The Ming is the sole reason Hui people still exist in China. The Yuan dynasty was helping genocide their Semu class and was reimposing full scale Han rule all over at the end, there would only be Mongols and Han in the Yuan lands.
Mongols did not even have enough Mongols willing to move into China and garrison it.
mongols relied on non-Mongol offiers and soldires for the majority of their military garrisons in non-Mongol regions. They shifted different ethnic soldiers to each other’s countries
Han Chinese generals and soldiers were shifted west by the Mongol empire to be stationed in Central Asia in Uyghur lands in Xinjiang, in Bukhara and Samarqand in Uzbekistan and Baghdad in Iraq, while Central Asian Muslim generals and soldiers were in turn shifted east to be stationed in China and Korea, so that the soldiers in each area would not conspire with he local populations against Mongols.
Mongols forced Korea to provide hundreds of thousands of virgin Korean girls and Korean boy eunuchs, and distrubited the Korean girls as gifts to their Central Asian Muslim and Han Chinese soldiers.
https://archived.moe/qa/thread/4601866/#q4601866
https://archived.moe/qa/thread/4609970/#q4609988The bulk of Mongols stayed as nomads in Mongolia and did not move into Han provinces. That’s why the last Yuan emperor fled to the steppes of Mongolia and continued reigning in Mongolia as the northern Yuan dynasty. The Mongols never integrated into the Han population.
today in China, the descendants of those Miongol empire and Yuan Central Asian garrisons and Korean women are the Hui Muslims. Despite speaking Chinese now and practicing similar culture now, they still identify as an entirely separate ethnicty from Han because of their paternal lineage, they trace their ancestry to Central Asian Muslims and identify as Hui, not as Korean or Han. There are 8.61 million Hui in China. The Salars are also descendants of Central Asian Muslim garrison under Mongol empire in China except their ancestors married Tibetan women so their culture is tinged with Tibetan but they never identify as Tibetan because of their paternal lineage.
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>why didnt the conformist bug people explore the globe
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>why would a gigantic Eurasian peninsula, already familiar with its many dangerous seas, with competing states and interests be more interested in seafaring than a land-woke af empire with everything it could need and wish for and which the extremely tame South China Sea couldn’t prepare for sailing through the massive pacific, twice the distance between the east coast and london
Gee whiz OP, I really don’t know. -
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All these massive cope by whitoid cucks lmao
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Almost everyone who went out exploring did so with government charter and a desire to find natural resources which could be exported back to the mother country, where demand often outstripped supply. And even then, many of them would be sorely disappointed.
China was largely self-sufficient, and could obtain whatever else it desired from its already existing trade links with the rest of Asia. So while there were Chinese merchants, mercenaries, etc. doing business in SEA and India, they were participating in relative proximity to long-established trade links and trade centres. They would not have obtained anywhere near the same return attempting to export whatever they found in the Americas across the Pacific. -
They did. There’s some evidence that Polynesians traded the ancestors the Araucana breed of chicken with the Incas.
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>Korea
Japan and China hemmed then in
>Japan
the few times Japan was unified enough (and the rulers ambitious enough) for them to contemplate overseas expansion they quite unsurprisingly focused on Korea, China, Okinawa, Hokkaido, Taiwan, etc.
>China
the Ming fleets were abandoned for economic reasons but the rather obvious reasons are:
their economy and populace were already fuckhuge, they really didn’t have a fundamental need for exploration that the europeans did to get their spice fix.
As the difference between the Ming’s borders and modern China’s borders show, the Chinese had rather obvious expansion area on land that were more important than some theoretical sea route-
Actually the Ming Treasure fleets were abandoned because it had accomplished its mission (convince Maritime Asian states to trade with China by sea) and the fact that the state needed the money for new defenses & garrisons to counter a new Mongol Empire that emerged in the 1400s.
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>and the fact that the state needed the money for new defenses & garrisons to counter a new Mongol Empire that emerged in the 1400s.
I was referring to this though I suppose economic really isn’t the best term for that on it’s own, apologies.
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Japanese should have sold Hokkaido to Russia, as they are pussies who can’t handle the cold.
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To everyone saying it wouldn’t be profitable for China because they were a huge land woke af empire with everything they needed.
Poland was in a similar situation, yet a subrealm of theirs still ventured out and established colonies even though they weren’t profitable. Brandenburg within the HRE also had short lived new world colonies.
That’s more the question here, how was there not even an Asian version of Curonia? Why did no east asian sub realm or individual ever even attempt going to the new world. Japan was incredibly decentralized and yet no one even made an effort.
The thread seems pretty conclusive that, despite all the cope, they simply never developed the technology. Am I wrong?-
There were Chinese merchants who founded colonies and established residences elsewhere in the region.
Outside of that, there was no compelling economic reason for trans-oceanic voyages. If you were the Emperor of China and wanted gold, spices, etc. all you had to do was sit and relax while foreign merchants brought it to you in exchange for your manufactured wares. Even into the 19th century European countries ran a trade deficit with China. Indeed, many of the proceeds of European exploration and conquest of the New World found their way into Chinese coffers anyway. -
>Japan was incredibly decentralized and yet no one even made an effort.
>The thread seems pretty conclusive that, despite all the cope, they simply never developed the technology. Am I wrong?This is like saying they didn’t have the technology to colonize Hokkaido because they didn’t until the 1800s.
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They just didn’t do ships.
There were almost no naval wars in east asia before europeans arrived.
The didn’t even colonise Taiwan before the dutch.
It nothing like europe where you have britain constantly being invaded by sea even going back into prehistory.-
There was the war between China and Vietnam, in which China got btfo, and the naval portion of the Imjin War, where the Japanese got btfo by the Korean navy
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Ming China ruled Vietnam and Vietnam never defeated China in a naval war.
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Only 20 years, dipshit.
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They did. Native Americans are genetically related to East Asians.
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Those are basically mongols
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>Do their cultures discourage wanderlust?
lmao, no. Look up Zheng He.-
finally someone with an iq above 80. op’s question is scrotebrained too since Columbus found america by accident
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He only did tribute-collecting voyages and his ships were built for shallow coastal waters not ocean-going.
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>He only did tribute-collecting voyages
There was also an exploratory aspect to his mission when one of his sidequests from the State was "please find out whats beyond the Arabian peninsula, we wanna know." and hit Africa as a result.
I mean the Chinese had an Idea because the Tang Dyansty spoke of Ethiopia in their encyclopedias, but it was hardly the case.
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China
>had no reasons to do so. The inland chinese area Is basically the best place in the entire world. They already had all they needed. Their isolationist culture made the rest
>Korea
Top much busy survive
>Japan
Pathological isolationist. Also their culture is so adverse to unknown explorations that still up to this day Japanese RPGs are very linear, controller experiences with very few open world/open choices elements -
daily remainder that the american exploration was accidental, europeans wanted to reach glorious china
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>daily remainder that the american exploration was accidental, europeans wanted to reach glorious china
*India -
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mystery meat
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Chinese got banned
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viking were known as the world’s best shipbuilders
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For small craft yes, but in the realm of large oceangoing vessels, the Chinese were the best. The Portuguese were pretty good too.
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what? the norse never built complicated craft of any kind
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Why would they decide to go out into a huge barren ocean for no reason? The only voyages that the Chinese did were either land voyages or out west, close to land or known routes. To them, going out to the Pacific would seem like suicide. The most realistic way they would discover America was if they wanted to colonize the coast of Siberia, but I don’t know why anyone would.
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for the same reason the welsh did it in the 1100s
https://www.alapark.com/sites/default/files/2019-04/The%20Welsh%20Caves_0.pdf-
Damn due wtf
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