- This topic has 167 replies, 1 voice, and was last updated 8 months ago by
.
-
Posts
-
-
Why is Odin the paternal head of the Norse pantheon when in others it’s some variant of the sun-god?
-
because you can’t see the sun in scandinavia
-
you get 24 hour sunlight in the summer in scandinavia
-
>you get 24 hour cloud cover in the summer in scandinavia
-
-
-
Odin is Mercury
-
Odin is a person-shaman who became a god, make of that what you will.
-
Odin also hates scrotes
-
Source?
-
I spoke to him, he told me, he only speaks to his aryan sons
-
-
Odin is described by the oldest known work of Norse beliefs to survive, the writings of Icelandic Norseman Snorri Sturlson, to be a TÜRK.
-
Turks are not a race, most modern Turks are armenoid/farmscrotes haplogroup G2
Turks got their name from the steppe conquerors who were white and red haired like pic related
-
>most modern Turks are armenoid/farmscrotes haplogroup G2
G2: 10% in Turkey, mostly among Muslim Georgians or Caucasians.I have zero Armenian myself.
-
Cope, dilate, seethe, and the rest.
https://www.ancientworldmagazine.com/articles/origins-norse-pantheon/-
You understand virtually nothing about the Eddas or folk history tbh. Lots of people later on claimed to be descendants of Greek epics. This is something popularized by the Roman folk origin story. The same similarities exist with The Bible as well. Some sources give Odin’s descent even further back to more obscure figures like Geat.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo-Saxon_royal_genealogies-
I’m aware, and it’s because Troy is the manifestation of Anatolid genius and Trojan-relatives had spread knowledge of farming, religion, advanced society to the hunter gatherers. Moreover, even CWC was about half Anatolian.
However this is also a serious claim, and it is not made in jest. Consider that Snorri is the only serious source of Norse religion that we have, it carries weight.
Odin is described as a wandering wise man from the East, and south.
-
>Consider that Snorri is the only serious source of Norse religion that we have
This is incredibly wrong. He is one of the most inaccurate. The elder eddas and sagas are much more reiable. Hávamál was probably composed in the 9th century and written down later. Snorri was purposefully euhemerizing the gods to explain how the first people “stopped worshipping the one true faith in God” and became pagan.-
>elder eddas
Can you articulate what if anything is in direct contradiction with Snorri? He was merely writing down what was already a long oral tradition.-
Not a contradiction. He adds many things not known in older versions. Much of it is considered to be his own invention
-
-
-
-
The old turkic script looks suspiciously like the runes though
-
Germanic runes literally come from italic and greek alphabets. Odin was a med.
-
The runes were most likely woke af off of various scripts used in the Alpine region so it was only indirectly from meds.
-
>only indirectly from meds
yeah sorry but no, not at all. The elder futhark comes directly from the Latin alphabet. What other alpine scripts are you referring to?The magical meanings behind runes is a Germanic invention though
-
The Camunic, Lepontic, Venetic and Rhaetic scripts who in turn are derived from the Etruscan alphabet.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YBoFjhNwziY
-
-
-
The Old Turkic script is about 500 years younger than Elder Futhark, and the letters that do look alike represent completely different sounds.
-
-
-
You will always be a brown farmscrote
-
>t. no more then 50% farmscrote
-
-
This and probably Scots or Picts or whoever who claimed to be Scythian, that’s probably rooted in some passed down memory of coming from elsewhere pre-maps/writing. Barely anyone traveled most likely, couldn’t read or write, and so when they heard tell of Troy down in the uncharted south or about Scythians they thought it sounded like what their grandparents used to talk about and these kinds of things.
-
Troy is literally in Finland. The sister city of Troy is even named as being a Norse city for fucks sake. Snorri even cites it later in his Heimskringla.
-
He says: “Tyrkland”, either referring to Anatolia (known as Tourkia already) or Tourkestan in Central Asia. And he clarifies by saying “Troy”.
-
>He says: “Tyrkland”
Where is this? The sister city in the Iliad is clearly a reference to Gardariki in Heimskringla. -
-
Hey bud, waiting on you to find that "Tyrkland" reference. You didn’t make that up just to push Turkoidity did you?
-
-
-
Nice try Tolkien
-
I’d deny the Baltic origins of the Iliad if the geography and Odysseus’ voyage didn’t match up so well.
-
-
Turks are the result of whites raping Mongols. Cope seethe and dilate.
-
-
please stop posting if you cannot find clear and concise words to use. nobody wants to slog through your meme-barf.
-
I see the problem here: you’re scrotebrained.
I’ll try do dumb it down for you… Before the Muslims finally sacked Constantinople in 1400ad, and changed the name to Istanbul (This is in what is called "Turkey" in modern times) it was the capitol of the Byzantine empire which itself was a remnant of the Roman empire–eg white. The fact that it was predominantly white in the historical record, beyond the written records and art, is supported by genetic research.
The Muslims preserves several works that predated their invasions while the originals were lost. That doesn’t mean the authors of said works liked scrotes.
Now crawl back under your rock mouth breather.
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
A shaman from “TYRKLAND” (modern Swede for “Turkey”), Odin was elevated to the chief position by virtue of his exceptional talent, knowledge, and expertise.
-
Modern swedish word for turkey is turkiet
Get it right before you larp-
-
That’s Icelandic you scrotebrain.
-
-
-
>“TYRKLAND” (modern Swede for “Turkey”)
…contemporary Swedish uses Turkiet for Turkey.>The elder eddas and sagas are much more reiable.
>the handful of genuine eddas
The Eddas say he is a Trojan Turk and that he led the Germanics to Scandinavia.
It’s well-known that Germanics were considered a Goth-like people. Leibniz even said that Germans, Turks, were from the same source.
>The Eddas say
Not sure what any of this is supposed to mean, but there are precisely >two< Eddas, one of which, the younger, was written by, or in some cases composed by, Snorri Sturluson. The elder Edda, aka "The Poetic Edda" is a compilation of poems – not sagas; it is not a prosaic work, but a poetic work, compiled by an unknown author. Some of the poems, by applying poetic and linguistic evidence, appear to have been composed much earlier than the time at which they were written down, but the point is that this Edda is P O E T I C. Snorri’s Edda is the one in which you’ll find the prosaic fan fiction.>Tyr/Tiw/Tiwaz
This sounds a bit confused. Tīwaz is the Proto-Germanic ancestor, while the other names are much later descendants, and "Tiw" (Old English) of course never existed in the Norse corpus; TīwaR syncopated to Týr, and the /y/ is the result of w-mutation of the /i/, causing /iw/ > /y/. This mutation did not happen in Eastern dialects (TīR).
Týr is attested in a runic inscription (DR EM85;151B) as -tiuR. The full name here, ᚺᚢᛏᛁᚢᛦ (hutiuR), has been analyzed as Hátýr ("High god"), seeing as týr means "god", rather than just being a name. This is also true for some other gods’ names. Other suggestions include Hýdýr, but in the end, we can never know for sure, and most serious runologists leave it at "uninterpretable", which I agree with.
This seems to fit.
If Thor is here, made poor, by the treachery of Loki (Odysseus), and the Greeks (described as the rival enemies)
Sumerian.
I have no idea what you’re on about, but I’ll just cite Cleasby & Vígfuson on this name (Ǫkuþórr):
>[…] one of the names of Thor, Edda 14, 28, but not found in the poems themselves; the öku- is not to be derived from aka, but is rather of Finnish origin, Ukko being the thunder-god of the Chudic tribes.-
>contemporary Swedish uses Turkiet for Turkey.
Contemporary Icelandic uses Tyrkland-
Yes, I know… I actually know a lot about Scandinavian languages… but that has nothing to do with anything.
-
Swedish used to as well, a century or more ago and before.
-
-
-
Meant to say “poems of the elder edda” not elder eddas, yes I know there are two and the first “Edda” is the compiled poetry mostly from the Codex Regius
-
-
-
He was a Steppe-Trojan-Turk who taught knowledge to primitive Norsemen and was worshipped as a result. This is consistent with Snorri’s description of his homeland as “Troy”.
-
What IE religions are headed by a Sun God, OP?
-
Scratch that. I am not a europoid and do not resemble yuropee-ans but this isn’t about me…
It’s about the Trojan Turk shaman who managed to accumulate such shamanic-skill set that he literally ascended to the divine, named Odin
-
So you’re telling me my cultural heritage is TÜRKED
This was an interesting thread, thanks for posting-
Yep. Happy to help clarify this topic.
I doubt it. People usually claimed these things because of a real-basis. The Scythian-origin is sometimes conflated with the Hunnic-Germanic interactions too, especially when it pertains to Alemannic and Frankish households. It seems a Trojan wise man traveled north, and communicated his wisdom to the people he encountered. It happens.
-
No, I know people trekked around and maybe you’re right, but it’s a stretch. I heard on the STJ podcast someone who consulted on the Viking DNA paper, he thought there might be some kind of outsized Greek/maybe Trojan impact in Scandinavian haplogroups, I think he was talking about I1 in particular. I think this would be easy to discredit and won’t be looking into it, and might be unrelated to what you’re talking about, but it’s a fun similarly scrotebrained-looking thought to mull over.
-
It would be just one person. Consider this map of J2(Anatolid). Notice the 1-5% in north Europe and 5-10% in Sweden.
Sometimes individuals are special. To give you a sense of what’s possible. Thomas Jefferson, originally from West Midlands England, had T-L206– exceptionally rare in England but it occurs at less than 0.3%.
Anatolian haplogroups occur at a higher rate than this in north Europe and Scandinavia.
-
>one special person
Yes
I know you’re not saying Odin was necessarily J2, but obviously J2 could have entered any which way with any which population or individual or small group of people, might have been present among a fairly typical CW group or whatever. As for T, it’s rare for sure, but it’s not particularly extraordinary, haplos seep into populations and not everyone’s sampled, there are probably a handful more of A00s out there in odd European places. Looking at Yfull for instance creates the illusion that there are only for instance 15 people who have this or that group when in fact it’s probably always something like 100x more of each per population, pulling that number out of my ass.-
Yes well, we don’t know if Odin even reproduced (with humans) or if one individual might leave a significant genetic marker (I’m aware it’s possible but it’s rare).
-
-
-
Yeah, I listened to that too. That guy is very likable, but he gets a lot of details wrong unfortunately. As I remember it, they were talking about this in the context of Mycenean-Nordic interactions during the Bronze Age, which there is no hard evidence for either way. I believe he implicitly suggested I1 could have entered Scandinavia by way of some faux-Mycenean colonization even. That’s the kind of theory that sounds believable if your only source is Eupedia-maps, but just comes off batshit crazy when subjected to any scrutiny whatsoever.
t. Norskie-
>Mycenean-Nordic interactions during the Bronze Age, which there is no hard evidence for either way
Except the sites in Germany where Linear B has been found.-
In Germany, not in Scandinavia. The Mycenean influence was probably mediated through Central European contacts.
-
>In Germany, not in Scandinavia
You’re a stooge.-
Germany isn’t Nordic, do you comprehend?
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
Consider that Troy was not well known about and the actual Trojan-Roman connection— mocked by some as supposed Julio-Claudian propaganda — is proven by modern genetics and new findings.
-
A thread that asks an interesting question immediately becomes a shit slinging contest between schizos and haploscrotes. Never change LULZ, never change.
-
He is a god of the night sky. Zeus is a god of storms. The Italics had a night-time variant of Jupiter. All are associated with darkened skies. Possibly the olde aryan god was both night and storms.
-
What do you mean why? Because he slayed Ymir.
-
If you take Ynglynga saga literally, which despite people saying it’s a conspiracy theory from christians to paint Odin as a real person, Odin is a man who led the Scandinavians from North Eastern Ukraine to Scandinavia.
-
Yes. The Trojan-Turk man who led them to Scandinavia.
-
I don’t know enough memes to make sense of this finno hyper Korean war level of bullshit.
-
The Eddas say he is a Trojan Turk and that he led the Germanics to Scandinavia.
It’s well-known that Germanics were considered a Goth-like people. Leibniz even said that Germans, Turks, were from the same source.
-
I’ve read the Eddas. There’s nothing to correlate it to Turks anon.
-
No you haven’t.
-
quads beat dubs, you lose roachcel
-
4 DUBS IN A ROW beats quads.
-
-
SEE:
It would be just one person. Consider this map of J2(Anatolid). Notice the 1-5% in north Europe and 5-10% in Sweden.
Sometimes individuals are special. To give you a sense of what’s possible. Thomas Jefferson, originally from West Midlands England, had T-L206– exceptionally rare in England but it occurs at less than 0.3%.
Anatolian haplogroups occur at a higher rate than this in north Europe and Scandinavia.
IN SCANDINAVIA.
Also, this region is where people like Alicia Vikander are from.
-
-
-
-
-
-
I don’t know enough memes to make sense of this finno hyper Korean war level of bullshit.
If you accept that the Germanics originated in Eastern Ukraine it’s hardly a leap that they could have been ruled by some exiles from Anatolia. Boats existed you know.
In an amusing reversal, Goths would later rule over Greeks and Turkics in Crimea.-
>In an amusing reversal, Goths would later rule over Greeks and Turkics in Crimea.
And goths would eventually become Tatars.Odin has second sight so either he knows Troy will fall or he can see it will he tricked by Loki (Ulysses)… he leads some Trojan-Turks to the north (presumably before this happens), then he either takes over or impresses some local germanics, and leads them all to Scandinavia. The leading Turkish-Anatolian-Trojan figures from Troy are worshipped as the Aesir by the germanics, and Odin as the head Turk, is worshipped as the head Aesir.
-
-
-
The amount of information we have about norse paganism is vanishingly small and the handful of genuine eddas we’ve retained might just be from a sect of Odin devotees. Tyr/Tiw/Tiwaz was the deity whose name is cognate with Jupiter and Zeus, and he may well have been the head deity generally. We know that the Norse swore their oaths to Tyr, not Odin.
-
-
Referring to Turks being the rivals of Ulysses, and identifying Loki=Ulysses.
-
here.
-
This is vey curious.
OKÜ-THOR is not translated into Norse. It is considered a title but it seems there is more to it.
>"Cart Thor" or "Driving Thor", from Finnish
Is one derivation but it seems to have agglutinative roots, and is likely Turkish.Also, identifying the Ulysses-Achaen-Greeks with Loki, and as the rivals of the Turks.
-
OküThor
OGHUTOR
It may very well be an Anatolid agglutination language too. Sumerian-Hurrian-Urartian words can look like this sometimes.
-
Gökturks = Blue turks = blue eyed turks
-
-
-
This seems to fit.
If Thor is here, made poor, by the treachery of Loki (Odysseus), and the Greeks (described as the rival enemies)
Sumerian.
-
-
-
-
Like so.
-
-
VGH, the fathers of the Turkic race. Kneel.
-
>Mesolithic R1b-M343 lineages from Villabruna (Italy ca. 12000 BC) to the latest south-eastern European hunter-gatherers cluster closely together. Their ancestry is defined as of Western Hunter-Gatherers (WHG), which includes hunter-gatherer individuals from Bichon (Switzerland ca. 11700 BC), Loschbour (Luxembourg ca. 6100 BC), as well as samples from La Braña (Iberia ca. 5865 BC), and Koros (Hungary ca. 5710 BC).
-
Turks = the result of Mesolithic whites raping Mongoloids.
-
-
-
But the first route is more consistent with the descriptions.
-
I am Swedish but okay.
Turkey = Turkiet
-
Turkish=Turkiet.
Republic of Turkey = Turkish/Turkiet, THE Turkish Republic.
-
Turkey=TYRKLAND
Turk=TYRK
TURKISH=TURKIET (in Swedish)
I’m glad this modern usage/short-hand is used but Tyrkland=Turkey.
-
-
-
He is saying in the first passages, that Odin was a King(royal) Chieftain in Troy, and he had "second-sight" (could see the future), and understood that he should go to the North and the people of the North needed his insights
-
Snorri was coping. He wanted a place in greco antiquity.
-
Nope. He is not coping. He is corroborated by other sources.
Also he is not anti Thor or anti Odin. He says they were holy men.
-
Corroborated by your haplo research, runes, 18th century scholar? This is not serious.
>he is not anti Thor or anti Odin
That much is clear.-
By Sagas, the Poetic Edda.
>that much is clear
Many of the copes are that he was supposedly anti Odin or something.
-
-
-
-
He is saying Turks=Trojans, and that Odin led a lot of Turkish aristocrats, wise people, leading shamans, from Turkey to Scandinavia and these people are what we call the Aesir.
-
My WHG siss. The progenitors of the Turkic race.
-
Nope yall come from the black sis
-
-
Goes from Troy (Turkey) with the Aesir (Trojan notables) to Ukraine (where he picks up Germanics) to North Germany (where he puts some of his sons in position and leaves them there) to Scandinavia (where he does more of this).
-
It seems the ancient Trojans =Turks, and Turk/Trojans = Aesir, and the founders of Germanic nobility, kings, aristocracy, heros— worshipped by the Germanics.
-
yep also Jesus= Turk, Yakub= Turk and shieeeeeet
-
If the Bible said so, I think you’d have to pay attention.
-
-
Yes, their WHG genes won out. God knows what would have happened had whites not raped the barbarism out of them.
-
Trojan Anatolians move north, corral some Germanics, and before you know it, the Germanics worship them for their superior knowledge and insights, and these Trojan Anatolians become Gods/Aesir, and Odin selects his sons to lead groups of Germanics as Kings of various tribes. All over what is now North Germany and Scandinavia.
He uses the word Troy, Turkey, Turkish customs. He says Greeks=Loki.
He also uses some agglutination words that aren’t easily sourced but occur in other sagas/poems too.
-
Z2103 Whites move south, creating Sumer. Anatolians copy white achievement. WHG Mongoloid Turkic proceed to rape Anatolia, taking revenge for their white siss.
-
-
-
-
It might explain why Germanic aristocracy has never felt particularly attached to Germanic people.
Like ruling over a foreign people.
-
Ok, so we have:
>the turk schizo
>slav schizo
>chang schizo
>garden gnome schizo
>the brown internet defense force
>the nazis
Am I missing someone, or are these basically all of LULZ posters-
>the east med «we wuzz the imperial romans» crew
-
theres the jw spammer
-
-
He and his wife have second sight. That means they know what will happen, but either they can’t convince people to do something or it’s inevitable either way. Most likely they’ve figured out that Troy is under siege by these Greeks and sooner or later it’s going to fall. Or like Cassandra, they might have warned but were not heeded.
Their second sight also tells them to go North.
Troy is on the Dardanelles and it controlled the lucrative Black Sea trade. Trojans surely knew about what is now Ukraine and had some ideas about its people.
So he drives forward with the people who listen to him, and join his movement, these are people like Thor and Figi, and the other Aesir.
All of them get on a ship and go north. To Ukraine. There they move around and find some tribals to control.
The rest is history.
-
Imagine if you take some tech and a few hundred Americans of strong character to go find some tribals somewhere who think you’re gods…
-
Troy was the most advanced city on earth in this time.
-
I think they moved right after the collapse. As a kind of refugee wave. That is why they call Greeks/Odysseus=Loki.
So this is one wave of the collapsing Trojan refugee. Like 1200BCE.
-
Wait. This would mean Odysseus was a Trojan who betrayed Troy. A Pelasgian prince who was vassal to the Greeks and who resisted going to war because he didn’t want to fight his own people.
-
-
I am absolutely sure Otü is Hurric-Anatolian. It just sounds like it. I’m looking through my Hurrian and Sumerian dictionaries. And there are like 5 people who speak these languages so don’t be surprised if it hasn’t been noticed before.
-
The Aesir & the other guys, I took that to be some kind of IE & pre-IE pidgin pantheon, same for Olympians & titans and the like, but for the same blending relation to exist in Greece and Scandinavia it’d have to have happened either way back in the early bronze age or copper age or My23&me is right or nearly right or it’s all wrong and the giants/Gods relation is part of PIE religion. That or maybe religion was more globally accepted and had much deeper roots, kind of like how you see venus figurines in a ton of different places.
-
Greece? He says they are the enemy. The evil foes of the Aesir.
-
These are Anatolians (not Greeks) who are moving north.
-
-
If ötu-Thor is Turkish, then Thor of the grass/steppe?
Otü means “grass” or “further away, farthest” in Turkish.
-
Öku-Thor… Thor the Reader? Or the Teacher of Reading? Perhaps he taught some runic signs.
-
Just to make sure, Turkish wouldn’t have been spoken by Anatolians back in Odin times. If there are turkic connections they’d have come from Uralians
-
so do gutians of sumerian history that invaded from the zagros mountains have any connection to goths (guti)? How far back do we know these groups go really
-
That’s absolutely impossible. All I can say.
-
I have no idea but getae (ex. Massagetae, Sauromatae) was a part of a word to indicate at least a Scythian tribe. I’ve heard about the connection between Scythians and Goths but I do not know anything about it.
-
>I’ve heard about the connection between Scythians and Goths but I do not know anything about it.
Dexippus in his "Scythica" gave his "Scythians" all German names, even though prior to that period they were Iranic. It represents the end cultural shift of those people.
-
>Dexippus
what has a greek philosopher has to do with scythians?
-
-
-
-
I’m going to go through some Hurrian/Etruscan/Sumerian dictionaries now.
-
-
An aside: The CWC-heavy Mycenaean Greek invaders of Troy would have been more “Nordic” than the Trojan princes like Thor who were defending Troy, and eventually went to Ukraine, and from there to Germany and Scandinavia.
-
>more Nordic
Yes, of course. Some of the WHG-derived Turkic rapists of Anatolia eventually (the more WHG-admixed) followed the trail of Kurgans left by their siss through Europe to Scandinavia. The more Anatolian admixed ones stayed behind. Hence underdevelopment in Anatolia today.-
VGH the Kurgans of Western Anatolia, the Proto-Nordid Urheimat calls to me my siss..
-
How do you reconcile the oldest kurgans being in southern Russia?
-
Geographic location doesn’t mean much. I’m stuck in Romania on remote work but I was born in Denmark and by blood I’m Austrian. If a whole community of Austrians moved to Romania they wouldn’t be Romanian by blood.
-
-
-
-
-
He’s not talking about TYRLAND. He says Turks, after he says Tyrkland. He then says Turkish customs. He says Troy.
-
I think he was just relating information without knowing the context. The etymologies don’t match Turkeys geography.
-
-
this is hilarious.
-
Go read the freaking original Icelandic if you want and come at me. I posted it.
-
-
Why are brown people allowed to post on LULZ?
-
>when in others it’s some variant of the sun-god?
Nowhere in Europe were Sun gods the chief gods, it’s always the father god, because they are all derived from the Aryan Sky Father. -
He is GREEK GOD, the STRONG sperm.
-
>why are religions slightly different
woah lad, what kind of clever question is that? Sun-gods are common but they are in no way the only existing default for polytheistic religions. -
Meds: the thread
-
In Ynglynga saga it very clearly describes him leading his people out of north Eastern Ukraine. Odin was a newer ancestral deified god. He was not the same as Zeus, Indra, and Celtic Lugh.
Thor is more of a parallel to Herecles and Tyr looks more like the original sky father of the Norse pantheon. I think the Norse were separated by my time than even the Celtic or Italic Indo European populations.
-
he isn’t
>Búri (Old Norse: [ˈbuːre]) is the father and genitor of all gods: the first god, the creator (Old Norse ‘producer, father’), an early ancestor of the Æsir. Búri was licked free from salty rime stones by the primeval cow Auðumbla over the course of three days.also there are godlike giants, Jötunn, with their own primeval ancestor Ymir
>several stanzas from four poems collected in the Poetic Edda refer to Ymir as a primeval being who was born from venom that dripped from the icy rivers called the Élivágar, and lived in the grassless void of Ginnungagap.-
Zeus was the son of Cronus. The concept that the patriarch of Indo-Europeans pantheons aren’t the absolute first born is common. Same thing with Jotunns and Titans. Odin is the paternal chief god of the Germanic pantheon. He might not always have been, but if that’s the case then Tyr is the more likely candidate, not Buri.
-
>>Búri (Old Norse: [ˈbuːre])
Yikes. That would be /(2)ˈbuːri/. No idea why anyone would put an /e/ there, but then again, Wikipedia’s transcriptions are usually unbelievably awful.Thor is more of a parallel to Herecles and Tyr looks more like the original sky father of the Norse pantheon. I think the Norse were separated by my time than even the Celtic or Italic Indo European populations.
>In Ynglynga saga
Ynglinga*
Not the first time I see this misspelled, so I figured I’d say something. This lemma is ‘ynglingr’, not *ynglyngr… Think of it as a cognate of English ‘youngling’; this suffix, ‘-lingr’, is not realized with an /y/.>the first “Edda” is the compiled poetry mostly from the Codex Regius
Codex Regius is a manuscript that contains it; the content doesn’t come from it. What you said implies it was originally written in Codex Regius, and then had select parts of it compiled into an Edda.-
>Codex Regius is a manuscript that contains it
Versions of the Poetic Edda contain many poems and lays not found in the Codex Regius like Baldr’s Dreams, Lay of Hyndla, and the Sigurd lays. Are you trying to emply that the codex regius contains the entirety of the poems contained within the Poetic Edda? Because that’s not true, at least not with modern publications from the 1800s onwards-
Oh yes, that slipped my mind. That’s what I get for replying after having just woken up.
I’m so used to consulting the folios of Codex Regius directly that I just brainfarted.
-
-
-
-
On the topic of Odin’s origins in Ukraine: isn’t it possible that the migration Snorri is talking about is actually a back-migration by Goths who had originally came from Scandinavia. That would explain the confusion with Scythians (or Turks lol) that the Goths picked up newer religious influences from the steppe and area around the Black Sea and then this spread backwards up through eastern Europe, to island of Gotland and into the Scandinavian peninsula. If I’m not mistaken archaeological records of Odin isn’t present before the migration era.
-
Snorri is pulling from classical literature like the Aeneid. It’s not a historical source. Other writers at the same time said Swedish was the language spoken in Eden, to try and elevate Scandinavian status in terms of European Christian history. I don’t know why people think Snorri is the end all be all of norse mythology. He was familiar with the oral traditions but added so much of his own material which is immediately obvious to anyone who has actually read the stuff.
> If I’m not mistaken archaeological records of Odin isn’t present before the migration era
I don’t know about that but I know it’s a popular theory that Odin became important due to the cult of Mercury the Romans introduced.-
I know Snorri is just making stuff up in regards to Troy and ancient kings. We know Thor for example is the same god as Perkunas, or Tyr the same as Zeus. But there very well could have been a migration that brought new influences and if it did take place then the Goths make the most sense to me.
>I don’t know about that but I know it’s a popular theory that Odin became important due to the cult of Mercury the Romans introduced.
I’ve always thought the Odin = Mercury connection to be weak. The Romans saw vague similarities and clearly the Germanics were already worshipping Odin highly.-
>I’ve always thought the Odin = Mercury connection to be weak. The Romans saw vague similarities and clearly the Germanics were already worshipping Odin highly.
in my opinion the Romans saying the Germanics worshipped Mercury really validates the early antiquity of Odin. Our written sources of Odin only come from the 11th century at the earliest, and these sources describe Odin as a wanderer and giver of knowledge, by revealing the runes. Romans 1000 years ago identified the Germanic chief god with Mercury, god of travelers, and related to Hermes, who was giver of knowledge especially when associated with Thoth and Hermes Trismegistus. So I think it’s pretty clear the aspects of Odin found in the Eddic literature and sagas in fact has been around since at least the 1st century. And that’s cool to me
-
-
-
Odin is an old God. Maybe he was just a shaman who got beefed up after death, but it would have had to have been early. Like, 500BC early. The fact that Tacitus says that they worship a God who they call "the wrathful" (Odin from Óðinn from *Wōdanaz from *wōdaz from *weh2t-, meaning "the manic; the excited", ultimately making Odin cognate with the Latin "vates", "seer") indicates that at this time, sometime a bit before 100AD, the Germanics could notice "Odin"’s relationship to a similar word for "fury". Maybe *Wodanaz isn’t a name, but a title, like how "Ares Enyalius", meaning "Chaotic the Wrathful" was? Additionally, since Odin shows up in every Germanic people’s religion with the sole exception of the Goths, we can see that he was present sometime well before 1AD. So, we can assume that Odin was around for the Proto-Germanic period somewhere around 500BC.
So, ironically, Snorri’s theory about Odin being a Trojan is actually most wrong (or at least raises the most questions) because it actually puts Odin as being really freaking old rather than just old. That would mean that Odin was running around sometime around 1,200BC, meaning he’d be a historical person somewhere around the time that Proto-Celtic was just splitting from the broader "Western Forest PIE" group. This would make him actually predate the very existence of the Germanic peoples. Talk about a freaking WEWUZ on Snorri’s part.
What I personally find interesting is his clear transition from some kind of wise shaman wizard God to the God of kings and war. The Romans don’t put him on nearly as high of a pedestal as "Germanic Mars", "Germanic Zeus", and "Germanic Hercules", after all.
-
>The Romans don’t put him on nearly as high of a pedestal as "Germanic Mars", "Germanic Zeus", and "Germanic Hercules", after all.
Zeus is not mentioned by Tacitus as a god the germanics worshipped. They only say Mercury, Hercules, and Mars.-
And Isis. And also Nerthus, Alcis, and Tuisto whom he didn’t use Roman (or Egyptian) names for, although Tuisto and Germanic Mars are generally considered to be the same.
-
-
-
-
>Why is Odin the paternal head of the Norse pantheon
he isn’t. it’s Tyr.
>deus pater = "sky father"
>zeus
>jupiter
>tiwaz -
He’s a WHG or BHG god.
-
Someone put it in a way which made sense to me.
Towards the end, the Norse civilization was being converted, it could have empowered young Nords to keep their tradition and spirit by following Odin by means of self sacrifice for magic, and not being subject.
So Odin gets promoted more over other gods, not that he was more important at one time or another, though he did have a bunch of kids.-
These were all Trojan aristocrats, wise men/woman, and their offspring.
-
-
>sun-god
You mean storm god? -
A better question is whether Tengri is a WHG god. And it’s far more likely.
-
Why would he be that?
-
Mongol Elites were WHG-derived, their dispersion created the Turkic race.
-
-
-
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.