Why don’t Westerners find Chinese history interesting?

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    • #192197
      Anonymous
      Guest

      Why don’t Westerners find Chinese history interesting?

      If you read the comments for this Chinese video (translated through YouTube), you’ll see lots of people saying how they find western history interesting and wish to learn and understand it more.

      Yet a similar sentiment is rarely if ever expressed for Chinese history. Why is this? What’s boring about Chinese history?

    • #192198
      Anonymous
      Guest

      I don’t think westerners dont like Chinese history its just that their history is pretty hard to tackle at first

    • #192199
      Anonymous
      Guest

      >What’s boring about Chinese history?
      It isn’t boring. It’s just extremely hard to understand when everything sounds the same.

    • #192200
      Anonymous
      Guest

      cultural barrier
      too specific names,locatives and terminology
      hard to memorize and put all together

    • #192201
      Anonymous
      Guest

      >Yet a similar sentiment is rarely if ever expressed for Chinese history. Why is this?
      They don’t have a lot of soft power, Japan on the other hand has exported a ton of media and their culture and history has been spread much further because of this.

      • #192208
        Anonymous
        Guest

        I’ve been immune to it, when I see something Japan related I just leave. Been more interested in China, albeit modern China. Tho studying about it in depth made me apathetic.

        • #192227
          Anonymous
          Guest

          >when I see something Japan related I just leave

        • #192231
          Anonymous
          Guest

          You’re on a site owned by a Japanese guy.
          You’re on a site created by a guy who loves Japanese culture.

          • #192232
            Anonymous
            Guest

            That’s a genetic fallacy. I’ve joined this website long after extra boards were created and hatred of anime has always been the norm. You still have /a/ and /jp/ tho, would never lurk there.
            I’ve seen people banned for avatarfagging with anime pictures, for good reason, that’s against the rules.

            • #192233
              Anonymous
              Guest

              avatarfagging is not anime
              avatarfagging is melanoidization

              Anime is anime, its everywhere.

      • #192265
        Anonymous
        Guest

        Interestingly, since very few Japanese speak English or any other European language while millions of Chinese are very fluent in English.

        • #192274
          Anonymous
          Guest

          >very few japs speak english
          They are required to take English courses until their equivalent of like 6th or 7th grade.

          A lot of them are still very poor English speakers, but almost every Japanese person knows the most basic phrases and words of English. In contrast Japanese is only studied by weirdo basement autists and the occasional business professional.

    • #192202
      Anonymous
      Guest

      I find it interesting, I liked this series and it got me into it. I could read about old Chinese men trying to outsmart each other for hours.

    • #192203
      Anonymous
      Guest

      >Why don’t Westerners find Chinese history interesting?
      There’s no Chinese equivalent of anime to serve as an entry level opening point to it. Same reason why most of the west isn’t interested in most types of eastern culture.

      • #192209
        Anonymous
        Guest
      • #192236
        Anonymous
        Guest

        There was, but Beijing in its infinite wisdom decided to kill Hong Kong cinema and its kickass action movies

    • #192204
      Anonymous
      Guest

      There’s barely any exposure to it in the west. I’d say that’s the main reason.

    • #192205
      Anonymous
      Guest

      cause its possible that most of chinese history is fake
      >modern understanding of chinese history comes from the dunhuang manuscripts
      >forgetting china’s national pastime of forging historical items
      >china wont let any one authenticate them
      pre dunhuang china taught an ait type theory because they had no idea about their history

      • #192268
        Anonymous
        Guest

        >modern understanding of chinese history comes from the dunhuang manuscripts
        Lol, what are you smoking man? You should at least know one thing about Chinese classics. At least if don’t want to go into Ancient Aliens-tier retardation.

    • #192206
      Anonymous
      Guest

      I’m surprised people in the comments seem to even be fairly familiar with history of Richard the Lionheart. I don’t think people in the west can name even one medieval Chinese emperor.

      • #192237
        Anonymous
        Guest

        Take anything you see in a YT comment section with a grain of salt.
        The garden gnomeess that runs YT is notorious for not only censoring political opponents of organized garden gnomery but actually changing the content of their comments.

    • #192207
      Anonymous
      Guest

      Chinese History be like:
      >Lu Yongfeng of the Yellow Banner Brigade fights Weihan Zhang of the Leaping Dragon Faction at the battle of Panda Pass
      >Total casualties: 600 million, 100 million civilians eaten

      • #192213
        Anonymous
        Guest

        Underrated post

      • #192310
        Anonymous
        Guest

        /Thread

    • #192210
      Anonymous
      Guest

      Japans rips-off Chinese culture and brings it to the west as their own. Half of the anime tropes is directly imported from Journey to the West.

      • #192273
        Anonymous
        Guest

        To be fair to the Japanese here the Chinese fucking demolished their own cultural hertiage in the Mao era whilst they mostly retained it. Which leads to the bizarre spectacle of the Japanese copy being a more authentic continuation then the Chinese revival moments of Chinese traditions

    • #192211
      Anonymous
      Guest

      It’s painfull boring, repetetive and confusing

      >Ching Yuang of the southern Wing dynasty defeated Wang Qing of the northen Wing in the battle of the Yacataman desert. 20000 northen Wing men were eaten alive
      >Aside superficial aspects, Chinese dynasties/ages seems
      interchangeable across the millenians
      >Outside of the Mongols and Manchus nobody was ever be able to invade them, so it’s always boring Chinese-on Chinese action. There is a reason the Mongol conquest of China and their Yuan dynasty is often the pre-modern timeframe of chinese history better know by normies
      >Chinese dynasty had the habit to rewrite history to fit their agenda, and their high centralization and the institutional continuity across the ages made their 1984 tier effort actually doable. So there is a good possibility that most of their recorded history is bullshit

      • #192212
        Anonymous
        Guest

        Yeah, almost all the time Chinese history is about how kings lost the mandate of heaven and some other guy got it then rose up and take the throne. They rarely go into the social and political situation that led to demise of the dynasty in the first place.
        >Let all blame it on the previous king

        • #192219
          Anonymous
          Guest

          Forgeries always existed everywhere, but outside of China the lack of institutional continuity made people ignorant enough about their pasts to make blatanty errors in their forgery attempts (like the donation of Costantine using medieval terms like kingship and feudal rights)
          Instead the Chinese historians had a good knowledge of their past, at least up to the rise of Qin (and even earlier. Song age antiquaries were well educated about the bronze age Shang for example). So they had the knowledge to make realistic forgeries while ommiting or twisting actuall historical events

          • #192225
            Anonymous
            Guest

            >pope forged donation of Constantine
            Look at this retard and laugh

      • #192234
        Anonymous
        Guest
        • #192298
          Anonymous
          Guest

          Reddit pretends to love pre-commie Chinese history

    • #192214
      Anonymous
      Guest

      W. European history – Latin
      E. European history – Classical Greek and OCS
      Islamic history – Arabic
      Indic history – Sanskrit
      East Asian history – Classical Chinese

      Latin and Greek shit got translated into English par the course. OCS shit did not which is why most people can reasonably talk about Byzantines but have fuck-all knowledge about Bulgary/Rus’/Romanians.
      Arabic got translated into French and German because those were very interested in Mesopotamia and Egypt. Translating from French and German to English is cheap and plentiful.
      Sanskrit got translated into modern Indian.
      Cla. Chinese got translated into Chinese/Japanese/Korean/Vietnamese.
      All of those languages are already expensive to find good translators for in media, let alone finding professional ones with a history academic background.

      So if you want to get into this shit, you need to learn a language. Even more-so than Mesopotamian/Egytpian history where knowing German and French unlocks much better scholarship, but the biggest names are already translated into English.
      The other way around, this doesn’t apply. Chinese already speak Chinese so learning about their own history is accessible. And they all learn English at school so anything done in that is also relatively accessible to them as well.

    • #192215
      Anonymous
      Guest

      Too difficult to remember the names

    • #192216
      Anonymous
      Guest

      Xinjiang is stolen Dzungar clay

    • #192217
      Anonymous
      Guest

      >Why don’t Westerners find Chinese history interesting?
      They were.
      >https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orientalism_in_early_modern_France
      >https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinoiserie#History
      France went nuts for it. Jesuits even promoted Louis XIV as the European parallel to the Kangxi Emperor.

    • #192218
      Anonymous
      Guest

      Names are a nightmare. It’s not just racism, for example Indian or Arabic history is great. But Chinese? I tried reading about the 3 kingdoms era, only name I remember is Cao Cao because it’s a funny one. Otherwise I jsut can’t, names are too similar and impossible to pronounce let alone memorize.

    • #192220
      Anonymous
      Guest

      (OP)
      Names obviously. I’ve spent the past few years casually learning about Chinese history but whenever a source gets too name focused it becomes impossible to follow. Even with the 3k game it took me ages memorise who characters were

      Liu bei meets lu bu who fights liu bang who attacked li chong on the advice of li dan and liang tai while ling bao watched

      • #192305
        Anonymous
        Guest

        >Liu bei meets lu bu who fights liu bang who attacked li chong on the advice of li dan and liang tai while ling bao watched

        And a Chinese, I imagine, would have the same difficulty with Aristoteles, Aristoxenus, Aristarchus, Aristides, Aristagoras, Anaximander, Anaximenes, Anacreon, and Anacharsis.

    • #192221
      Anonymous
      Guest

      I just don’t find chinese or chinese history interesting, aside three kingdoms.

    • #192222
      Anonymous
      Guest

      I’m sure there’s a bunch of interesting shit that happened in chinese history – but at first glance it sure as fuck doesn’t seem like it is.

      My impression of chinese history is that it’s game of thrones. Wang Lin, Wang Lout and Wang Shake-It-All-About all want to be the emperor or fuck the emperor and the emperor wants to fuck everyone else over, except when it’s his favourite concubine Wang Lot murdering everyone or cutting the soles off peoples feet so she can see why they don’t get frostbite. For like a thousand years. And sure, the same could be said of europe, but at least you have different countries and cultures clashing and fucking borders moving around. All I know for China is that at some point the mongols came and ate face and otherwise it was just different people fighting over the middle kingdom.

      Adding to that, there isn’t really a good cultural touchstone to act as a foundation. European history has the greeks & romans and then the christians coming along. Everyone knows how those guys worked. With china I suspect the whole completely different cultural values/confucianism thing trips people up subtly and means it’s not always obvious even *why* something happened. The past is already a different country, but the past in a different country under a completely different moral system is a different country cubed. The few bits and pieces we do get from china tend to be the most grotesque stuff like the castrations or the death of a thousand cuts which makes the whole place sound like a bunch of barbarian murderers you dont want to read more of.

      And yeah, china doesn’t have a good cultural export to act as an introduction. I don’t know all that much japanese history either, but I’m familiar enough through anime that all japanese names don’t just blend together to me and I can figure out roughly how to say them in my head and remember them enough to google them at 2am when I’m bored. China I wouldn’t know where to begin.

      • #192255
        Anonymous
        Guest

        "China long united must divide and China long divided must unite"

        This is your starting point, personally the Civil Wars are just too chaotic and confusing to me so I just focus on the long lasting dynesties like Chin, Han and Tang while ignoring the Warring States and Three Kingdoms periods in-between them

    • #192223
      Anonymous
      Guest

      At least according to bilingual friends the translation quality from Chinese to European languages is overwhelmingly garbage, and most of the Chinese histories and legends you’ll commonly find on bookshelves in the US, UK, etc come from 19th century translations by European missionaries and scholars who had basic functional grasp of the languages but couldn’t translate the tone and artistic aspects to save their lives, and garbled a bunch of words and references as well. Imagine someone with no familiarity with English slang encountering a sentence like "John had a skeleton in his closet." So the end result is stuff that reads as interesting and enrapturing in Mandarin has the version available in English be the equivalent of a crappy Wikipedia article summary of a plot.

    • #192224
      Anonymous
      Guest

      Because the stats are bullshit
      5 million men fought in 2k bc, then the han empire ran for 10 years before being deposed by the pingping

    • #192226
      Anonymous
      Guest

      >the duke of everlasting light engaged with the king of the mountains, but due to a betrayal by the Prince of the ever ending plains he forgot to put his armour on

    • #192228
      Anonymous
      Guest

      Everyone else itt pretty much explained it. The barrier of entry is massive due to the abundance of names and east asian cultural concepts that you have to go out of your way to study in order to actually understand the situation properly. I’ve been casually reading into the topic over the years and the only periods i have some solid knowledge is Qin, Yuan, a bit of Ming, some Three Kingdoms and thats really it. The rest of what i know is just general societal stuff.

    • #192229
      Anonymous
      Guest

      >Why don’t Westerners find Chinese history interesting?
      China is background flavor. Indo-Europeans comprise all the main characters of history.

    • #192230
      Anonymous
      Guest

      very long, repetative, all look same, weird names

    • #192235
      Anonymous
      Guest

      As others have pointed out, the names (and to a lesser extent place names and words/concepts) are nightmare mode.

      Chinese history also doesn’t have as much visual representation as Western or Japanese history. Everyone in the West who casually reads history has a rough idea of what the "characters" like Richard the Lion Heart of Joan of Arc or Caesar, whatever, looked like. In contrast there aren’t many famous depictions or images from Chinese history beyond the most cursory Westernized shit like Mulan or Kung Fu Panda and so Westerners tend to just assume all of Chinese history looks like that. All the major figures look the same, etc.

      Chinese history is also complicated by the fact that China is a huge fucking landmass, comparable to all of Europe. There are always many important players in many different parts doing different things, many battles or events happening concurrently, etc. Northern and Southern China are massively different, same with the West (which is desert) and the North, which is mostly plains and mountains.

      Basically Chinese history is the asian version of Byzantine history, on a larger and longer scale, with a language barrier, and it lacks significant media portrayal in the West to begin with. If you want to study Chinese history it requires extensive reading and learning about abstract concepts, geography, etc, that just isn’t that accessible or interesting to the casual reader.

      • #192241
        Anonymous
        Guest

        >Everyone in the West who casually reads history has a rough idea of what the "characters" like Richard the Lion Heart of Joan of Arc or Caesar, whatever, looked like
        This is absolutely ridiculous. Just because you saw some inaccurate Victorian art of Richard and read a brief description mentioning his height and hair color doesn’t mean you’ll have any clue what he looked like.
        >Chinese history is also complicated by the fact that China is a huge fucking landmass, comparable to all of Europe
        This makes it much easier to learn. You can learn the political history of a very large region just by studying one dynasty. In Europe you’d need to do the same with several dynasties with the sole exception of Roman times.

        • #192243
          Anonymous
          Guest

          >doesn’t mean you’ll have any clue what he looked like
          That wasn’t my point. My point is that even if people’s mental image of a historical person is totally false, they still HAVE a mental image. It’s much easier to remember people when they have both a name and a face. Whether that face is accurate or not is irrelevant.

          >This makes it much easier to learn
          It makes exactly like learning the history of several regions at once, with everything that entails. Aside from the fact that China was frequently divided into multiple factions and competing dynasties, learning the history of a single Chinese dynasty is the same amount of work as learning the history of several competing European dynasties, even if it is just one unified political entity.

        • #192247
          Anonymous
          Guest

          >This is absolutely ridiculous. Just because you saw some inaccurate Victorian art of Richard and read a brief description mentioning his height and hair color doesn’t mean you’ll have any clue what he looked like.

          No, it’s a valid argument. From my point of view of an ignorant European, but with just a bit more knowledge than the average people that is a problem. You can’t really visualize Chinese historical figures as they are not popular at all.
          I know about Mao Tzedung because of his iconic image where he is in his uniform and is saluting and cheering like in the propaganda posters
          I know about Chiang Kai Shek because one might look at WW2 Chinese history and see him in his uniform.

          But anything before that is a blur. You have some vague image about how a pre-1900 Chinese ruler looked like from some popular media but most people couldn’t really know if it was from 1200 or from 1700 AD.
          Meanwhile people have some basic idea about how medieval or Renaissance European leader looked like

        • #192253
          Anonymous
          Guest

          Accuracy doesn’t matter. The point is people have a mental picture. People might not know anything about 1700s Europe or America, but they do mentally picture guys in powdered wigs and the period dress; they don’t know the details of medieval warfare or the crusades, but they can mentally picture guys in chainmail and suits of armor with swords; they don’t the Napoleonic Wars, but they can picture Napoleon. And in Japan, they don’t have to know any of the historical details to get a mental picture for "samurai" or girls in kimonos with powdered faces.

          The same just doesn’t apply to Chinese history.

          • #192259
            Anonymous
            Guest

            He have "Emperor Big Fat Fuck and his thousand whores" "Empress Mother-in Law-From-Hell" "Evil Scheming Eunuchs" and "Great Khan Kill’Em’All"

            the problem is the Histories repeat these characters over and over again so it doesn’t really matter who they were.

    • #192238
      Anonymous
      Guest

      I love Chinese history so much. Even Indian history falls just a bit short of its majesty. (Though arguably they did surpass the Chinese in the field of philosophy and religion, hence the success of Buddhism) All of the dynasties are so rich and interesting and its scale just overwhelms the imagination when you think of all the countless lives and fascinating stories it told and is still telling. Their supreme achievement of being one of the major population centers of the Earth while staying mostly united and well-governed while India, Europe, and the Near-East more often splintered and squabbled really makes it appealing to me.

      I still like the West more of course since I am of it but China is an easy second favorite, even surpassing great cultures like that of Hindoostan, Persia, and Egypt.

    • #192239
      Anonymous
      Guest
    • #192240
      Anonymous
      Guest

      For the same reason German history is boring. Boo hoo ethnically homogenous region sharts it self and goes into civil war every 150 years. The only interesting times are when foreing powers get involved. China isn’t a civilization, its just a country.

      • #192242
        Anonymous
        Guest

        Have you ever simply considered that you are boring? China and Germany have contributed much more to the world than you ever will. Perhaps learn some humility and appreciation for what they’ve given you. China isn’t and certainly wasn’t very homogeneous either. You need to think of them as a country, yes, but on a continental scale.

        • #192249
          Anonymous
          Guest

          You’re obviously butthurt but the poster you’re replying to is right. I too think German history is boring. And if we’re fair to it, they tried to destroy civilization as such quite a few times.

          • #192256
            Anonymous
            Guest

            How many books on German history have you read lately? You seem to be an expert on the subject after all.

            • #192276
              Anonymous
              Guest

              I actually talk about ancient Germanics on a daily basis with a friend of mine. Goths, Visigoths etc.

              • #192296
                Anonymous
                Guest

                Interesting tbh

    • #192245
      Anonymous
      Guest

      There is no cultural overlap unlike with japan which is honestly mostly due to anime and weaboos

      China is so insulated from the outside world, ive never met a chinese person, almost never heard the language spoken, and only know basic stuff like three kingdoms period

      Japanese anime popularity spread to the youth of the west in the 80s/90s and has since exploded, china would need to produce something similar that has the same cultural influence as anime does

    • #192246
      Anonymous
      Guest

      >Why don’t Westerners find Chinese history interesting?
      It’s largely communist state propaganda

    • #192248
      Anonymous
      Guest

      Western history
      >Rise and fall of the greatest empires the world has ever witnessed
      >Huge wars that have shaped history forever with dozens of countries participating
      >Birth of culture and religion

      Eastern History
      >The Zhang Dynasty was destroyed by the Dhang Dynasty and then nothing happened who cares

    • #192250
      Anonymous
      Guest

      […]

      Scandinavian schizophrenic?

      • #192257
        Anonymous
        Guest

        look at this npc. your programing works great

        • #192275
          Anonymous
          Guest

          Just finished watching Free Guy.

    • #192251
      Anonymous
      Guest

      Western works have been translated into every other language under the sun. This is why, for example, it’s not unusual to find Shakespeare being performed in Japan, or even being shown normally in their culture (i.e., you’re just as likely to see Hamlet or Romeo & Juliet appear in an anime as you are to see it appear in a western cartoon when the writers need a school play). This applies to literature, mythology, and yes, history. In China, the dynasties all can tend to bleed together, the political situation isn’t as clearly stated, the names all sound the same, and it’s just not as readily available because significant amounts of text just haven’t been translated. Pop history buffs, if they know anything about China, probably just gravitate to the Chinese Civil War/Second Sino-Japanese War, because of the WWII association, and the Heavenly Kingdom, because "dude Jesus’s Chinese brother."

      • #192252
        Anonymous
        Guest

        Even Romanian plays are performed in Japan, they are like that…

    • #192254
      Anonymous
      Guest

      >Chinese history
      I don’t read fiction. Chinese had history, and repeatedly decided to destroy it and fabricate a more convenient story.

    • #192258
      Anonymous
      Guest

      […]

      >by "white" of course I mean "Turkic"

    • #192260
      Anonymous
      Guest

      Chong Dynasty gets replaced by Ching Dynasty gets replaced by Zhang Dynasty ad nauseam

      • #192262
        Anonymous
        Guest

        Sure but the external enemy changes enough to give the dybesties their own character Hans who keep sending millions of soldiers to freeze to death in Korea and die of maleria in Vietnam feel very different from Tang who are trying to trick Turks into fighting the Tibetians for them

        • #192307
          Anonymous
          Guest

          >the external enemy changes enough to give the dybesties their own character
          True. This is what I used starting out. Knowing the sequence of nomadic steppe entities in the north makes it infinitely easier to put the states and kingdoms into a historical context.

    • #192261
      Anonymous
      Guest

      I read tons of stuff of Europeans going to Asia from the 12th to 17th centuries, but Western sources indicate very little of the other way around (I’ve come across a few Japanese sources). Then there was an article I read a few years ago that had dubious claim some Asian skeleton was found in a grave from 1st century Italy.
      If I were anyone in pre-European colonialism, I’d definitely be one of the first guys to want to go explore what’s on the other side of the world with all these rumors of "the refined and sophisticated yellow men," or the "island nation of Jampon (Japan) filled with gold" or "the land of the round-eyed Daqin (Roman) masters of architecture and water magic."

    • #192263
      Anonymous
      Guest

      it’s not boring, but there’s too much of it and it’s hard as fuck to keep track of places and names that all sound so similar, across half of asia and 5000 years of history

    • #192264
      Anonymous
      Guest

      It’s the names and geography. Can’t remember this shit and usually have no idea where Xinchionghan is or how to pronounce it.

      I’m also not a fan of Muslim history. While geography is not a problem their names are too samey sounding. Every guy is some Ahmed Ibn Mohammad.

    • #192267
      Anonymous
      Guest

      I like their food and I enjoy sticking my dick in their women, but aside from learning about the atrocities committed by Mao, I could not care less about China’s long history. Now ancient Greek and Roman history, THAT’S interesting.

      • #192269
        Anonymous
        Guest

        It’s sad that zoomer opinions can’t be separated from good satire. Thanks for the smelanoid either way.

      • #192270
        Anonymous
        Guest

        You’re mad as fuck, amerishit

      • #192271
        Anonymous
        Guest

        >and I enjoy sticking my dick in their women
        Tales from the basement

        • #192297
          Anonymous
          Guest

          >Tales from the basement
          Heh.

    • #192272
      Anonymous
      Guest

      The perception of the past is filtered through the current. Popular opinons about China are the worst they’ve ever been in western countries, hence the general disregard for Chinese history. Especially when other East Asians country like Korea and Japan fill the ‘historical’ niche of orientalism. Although China is starting to catch on in popular culture in the West its decades behind other countries.

      • #192299
        Anonymous
        Guest

        >The perception of the past is filtered through the current
        Interesting thought tbh

    • #192277
      Anonymous
      Guest

      Chinese history is too difficult due to the names and the cultural understanding of the wars and eastern concepts like Confucianism. I barely understand it as well. Japan on the other hand is much easier to understand, it’s has cultural tropes that Europeans understand better and have familiarity with. Japan is like European country with Far Eastern favor, Daimyos are feudal lords, the Emperor is king, Shogun is the greatest and most powerful of the feudal lords. It’s not that hard to understand why Euros favor Japanese history over Chinese.

      • #192278
        Anonymous
        Guest

        *Far Eastern flavor

    • #192282
      Anonymous
      Guest

      It’s all so tiresome.

      Chinese history is just identical from start to finish. Centuries of one single blob, then a few years of civil war with 100 million eaten, then centuries of one single blob.
      >yes, but what if qu won instead of wu!
      Then they’d be identical? The different dynasties vying for power never had any interesting features, China just absorbs everything. It’s never the confucian empire against the buddhist empire, it’s the confucio-buddhists against identical confucio-buddhists.

      The Qing, Taiping, warlord period, and civil war are interesting because they were different factions who had different goals fighting to enforce their vision for China, but before that it was just big dong vs dong big, whoever wins the end result is the same.

      • #192284
        Anonymous
        Guest

        I don’t know it seems like you have a very surface level understanding of Chinese history? Pretty much every Dynasty’s rise and fall is different from the ones that came before it. You have to look deeper into how each dynasty ruled differently from the others and look at how it eventually contributed to their fall. For example, the Ming were extremely paranoid so they were the first ones to establish a secret police force. This secret police force eventually became equally as powerful as the Emperor which was one of the major contributing factors to the Ming’s downfall. Essentially the Ming was the first dynasty to fall because of Glowies.

        I tried getting into japanese history but i lost interest, names are already hard to remember for me as it is especially so when the japanese names sound so similar.

        My problem with Japanese history the same problem I have with most Feudal societies. Internal power struggles just aren’t that interesting when it comes to Feudalism, the interesting stuff comes from conflicts with those outside the Feudal order.

      • #192286
        Anonymous
        Guest

        This
        it’s the same reason nobody cares about the Roman civil wars after the beginning of the empire. It’s worthless mega rich pretender #1 vs worthless mega rich pretender #2 repeated ad nauseum

        • #192287
          Anonymous
          Guest

          Byzantium honestly has the worst and least interesting civil wars, it’s honestly a lot easier to follow Chinese civil wars cause at the end of them there’s usually a new dynasty that lasts a few hundred years.

      • #192292
        Anonymous
        Guest

        Either you haven’t read any history at all or you are simply a complete idiot if you don’t realize all history is ultimately the same story repeating forever.
        >Wars are only interesting when two phony 20th century ideologies with surface-level differences fight each other lmao
        Genuinely awful opinion and there is a lot more to history than just political struggle.

        • #192293
          Anonymous
          Guest

          Anon, stop being retarded. He’s saying that various chinese factions vying against one another appear indistinguishable to western eyes and therefore nothing seems to change when one triumphs. You can fuck right off with your implication that until the 20th century *all* cultures had at best surface level differences from one another. I’m sure that’s not an opinion you actually hold: but it’s what you said.

    • #192283
      Anonymous
      Guest

      I tried getting into japanese history but i lost interest, names are already hard to remember for me as it is especially so when the japanese names sound so similar.

      • #192285
        Anonymous
        Guest

        You’re missing out bro, I bet you don’t even know about when Oda Nobukatsu fought with Oda Nobutaka because Oda Nobunaga and his heir Oda Nobutada died.

      • #192290
        Anonymous
        Guest

        >when the japanese names sound so similar
        They don’t. Japanese names are very easy to stomach. Chinese (and Korean) names are horrible.

      • #192313
        Anonymous
        Guest

        Sengoku Jidai was pretty kino tho

    • #192288
      Anonymous
      Guest

      Chinese history is fascinating.

      • #192289
        Anonymous
        Guest

        Especially the Qing Qong.

        • #192301
          Anonymous
          Guest

          The Qing period has a lot of similarities to present day America.
          >A tiny ethnic minority dominates.
          >This minority holds the largest ethnic group in contempt.
          >They force the majority to undergo a humiliating physical ritual ( queue in China, circumcision in America)
          >The country persists in thinking of itself as #1 when it’s obvious those days have long since past.

    • #192291
      Anonymous
      Guest

      >Why don’t westerns find uninteresting history interesting?
      /thread

    • #192294
      Anonymous
      Guest

      i DO find chinese history interesting, i just don’t know where to start

    • #192295
      Anonymous
      Guest

      Because everything looks the same and everyone looks the same and everyone sounds the same

      • #192300
        Anonymous
        Guest

        t. Whitey

        • #192302
          Anonymous
          Guest

          Tonal languages are fucking retarded and they sound retarded. None of us complain about japanese because the shit is phonetic.

    • #192303
      Anonymous
      Guest

      Too far removed from European history to be captivating. Anything beyond India is of no interest to me.

    • #192304
      Anonymous
      Guest

      Chinese history is really long and complicated, hard to get into
      while European/Middle Eastern history is always exciting and fun to get into

    • #192306
      Anonymous
      Guest

      High barrier to entry, naming conventions are a bit strange. When you’re from western Europe and see an Eastern European last name you kind of get that it will end with -ski, -ov, -ich. When you’re from eastern Europe you kind of get that a guy with the last name "Smith" has some ancestor that was a smith.
      Name changes are seen much less often in this part of the world, and that can also get confusing even in Japanese history, which is easier to get into because of how pervasive Japanese media is. Keeping track of the Sengoku period name changes for just Hideyoshi and Ieyasu is hard enough.
      There isn’t a simple entry point for China. Three kingdoms has a lot of myth and story to it and you’d get confused as to what’s what. The century of humiliation is more about other actors that the Chinese themselves, plus the ruling dynasty are Manchus and that dynamic is a bit odd. Starting at the beginning would be a bit cut and dry.
      When you hear "Ming dynasty vase" you’d think it’s something much older, not something that’s kinda contemporary with the 100 years war, is "sounds" more like "The 3rd dynasty of Ur, 4th dynasty of Egypt". Emperors not having the name of the dynasty as their last name adds more confusion. Japan is a bit simpler, you have one Dynasty, there are changes in the ruling political structure that are more palpable to westerners. You have a clear cut picture of 3 successive shogunal governments while the Emperor is always the Emperor.
      For entry points Japan has the Sengoku period, the Meiji restauration, Japan comes into contact with the West in these times. Contact with Portugal, Spain, Dutch, English. Japanese victory in the Russo-Japanese war. It raises eyebrows.
      Qin Shi Huang is a similar eyebrow raiser for China for grand projects, but things get convoluted again.
      Bottom line, it takes a lot more willpower to crack into Chinese history than many others.

    • #192309
      Anonymous
      Guest

      Cultural barrier, complicated and strange names.
      A LOT of random shit is still untranslated. Most of it, really, chronicles, clan histories, there’s a lot of it, and translation is pretty hard. And most of the west can’t read pinyin. Also, most people in the world know English as a second language, and English has a lot to offer in history in general, though I’m sure learning the language of X i also good if you want to look into some specific place.

    • #192311
      Anonymous
      Guest

      any good books on Manchuria, Tibet, and Xinjiang?

    • #192312
      Anonymous
      Guest

      Plenty of westerners do find it interesting, just not the majority. And the Chinese are probably just starved for variety because unlike westerners they grow up in a heavily censored information bubble that focuses exclusively on their own culture. Anybody in the west is free to study history using whatever sources they want, but in China only the state-approved sources and topics can be researched.

    • #192314
      Anonymous
      Guest

      westerners are arrogant

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