Why do commies love the GDR? It was poorer than the west, killed its citizens trying to escape, etc

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    • #133288
      Anonymous
      Guest

      Why do commies love the GDR? It was poorer than the west, killed its citizens for trying to escape, and kept a lot of fascist aspects from the Nazis.

    • #133289
      Anonymous
      Guest

      Aesthetics.

    • #133290
      Anonymous
      Guest

      who lol

    • #133291
      Anonymous
      Guest

      >it was poorer than the West
      Even the West/CIA didn’t agree with this statement.

      • #133292
        Anonymous
        Guest

        I’m claiming shenanigans, because parity with west germany is simply ludicrous. Outperforming Italy, eh. Actually, isn’t Italy a little high?

        • #133293
          Anonymous
          Guest

          Italy was fine by the late 80s/90s, northern Italy was almost as rich as Germany

          • #133297
            Anonymous
            Guest

            Preposterous. Italy is never fine. It is a swamp in which no sane man would venture.

            • #133318
              Anonymous
              Guest

              Italy in 1991 had the worlds fourth largest economy after U.S, Japan and Germany.

      • #133294
        Anonymous
        Guest

        >GDR outperforming western germany and almost all of western europe
        Very subtle tankie lmao

      • #133295
        Anonymous
        Guest

        >Italy lower than the UK in the 1980s
        I’m calling bullshit on this whole map. This is exactly when Italy was still doing well and the Warsaw Pact’s economic problems were starting to become a publicly acknowledged and debate topic within their countries

        • #133298
          Anonymous
          Guest

          Hindsight bias, the post. In the 1980s Nobel Prize winning economists were still predicting the USSR’s eclipse of the US economy in the 2000s.

          >GDR outperforming western germany and almost all of western europe
          Very subtle tankie lmao

          The CIA is the most powerful tankie org on earth. I hear in the depths of Langely they have a secret shrine to Stalin where all the glowies go to pray.

          I’m claiming shenanigans, because parity with west germany is simply ludicrous. Outperforming Italy, eh. Actually, isn’t Italy a little high?

          >grug mad because preconceived notions of world challenged by fact… grrr…

          • #133299
            Anonymous
            Guest

            Any scrotebrain can make a meme image and slap
            >source: le CIA xD
            on it. It seems very implausible and I’m not going to blindly believe some .jpg. I’m going to look it up though.

            • #133301
              Anonymous
              Guest

              The GDP per capita of west Germany was almost twice that of the GDR according to (they even cite the CIA as well, go figure)
              https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_East_Germany

              >inb4 muh wikipedia
              Still more reliable than you meme pic

              https://geographic.org/wfb1987/worldfactbook87nati.pdf
              >GNP: $174.7 billion, $10,400 per capita;
              growth rate 2.4% (1985)
              I love how people pretend to be ultra critical skeptics the moment that anything differs from their preconceived notions, hyper-analyzing every little bit as though they aren’t scared 105IQ brainlets whose world is being shattered by one communist country having a strong economy.

              • #133306
                Anonymous
                Guest

                The reason I’m sceptic is because I know people who have lived there and the economy was one of the reasons why the country collapsed. They also recieved financial aid from the west and there was a huge black market for all kinds of products. Add to that the whole turning-your-entire-country-into-a-giant-prison-to-keep-people-from-fleeing-thing and it’s really hard to believe that they were doing BETTER than the west.

                • #133309
                  Anonymous
                  Guest

                  >people are susceptible to propaganda
                  >sold their nation down the river for some negro music and fizzy corn juice
                  Shocking.
                  I think the real tragedy of communism’s fall is what it says about humanity as a whole. People were given peace, prosperity, stability, all the happy trad families they could want… and they still spit at it. They thought homelessness was propaganda to keep them afraid of capitalism, keeping them from their precious consumer goods which would make them *truly* happy. When you look at globohomo hell, remember, this is the future humanity expressly asked for.

                  Why? Do you know what kind of hoops you had to jump through to buy a car or even freaking furniture in the Soviet Union? They were in constant deficit of consumer goods. The only thing they could manufacture well was tanks.

                  Tanks are part of GDP. All kinds of stuff which is useless to the average person is part of the Western GDP too. It’s a decent statistic, but not without flaws.

                  • #133310
                    Anonymous
                    Guest

                    >It’s a decent statistic, but not without flaws.
                    It’s absurd. Why not add all the bunkers that Albania built to the GNP and call them the Switzerland of the Balkans.

                  • #133311
                    Anonymous
                    Guest

                    >People were given peace, prosperity, stability, all the happy trad families they could want…
                    Yeah, as long as they said yes and amen to everything the party did and never asked any critical questions. And if it was all just propaganda, why did they have to build the wall? The people were leaving in droves before it was erected and never looked back. Maybe reality is propaganda as well?

              • #133308
                Anonymous
                Guest

                Even if we take those numbers at face value, the GDR was still a tyrannical shithole that jailed and totured political dissidents, had to build walls and mine fields to keep their own people from leaving and collapsed after less than 5 decades. Not really a win for socialists, is it?

                • #133312
                  Anonymous
                  Guest

                  Great, now your criticizing it woke af on fact. This is a good start. Yes, I think that the efforts that communists had to go through to get people to accept their utopia is pretty damning. People don’t want good things, and this is the world they asked for. I think the communists should have just let people leave, but let them know there’s no hope of them ever coming back. It would be a great eugenic program in the end, the West could have all the scum of the earth and more resources could go towards making healthy, happy generations of model socialists instead of feeding ingrates.

                  • #133313
                    Anonymous
                    Guest

                    >It’s not my system that is wrong, it’s those damn humans!

                    And since when is an authoritarian hellhole a utopia? Don’t socialists usually pretend they care about freedom and democracy?

                    • #133315
                      Anonymous
                      Guest

                      Yeah, the average human is scum. Go talk to the average person and disagree if you want, but you’d just be bullying yourself at that point.
                      >Don’t socialists usually pretend they care about freedom and democracy?
                      Isn’t that the mistake that led to the fall of communism in Eastern Europe in the first place? They truly believed that the average person wasn’t a shortsighted moron who could be bribed into submission with 99c sucrose water buckets. Ffs, Stalin was willing to hand over East Germany if they allowed the communists to compete in fair elections and ensure Germany’s neutrality lmao. freaking idealist lib.

                      Learn from the past. China sure did.

                      • #133320
                        Anonymous
                        Guest

                        Ah yes, the socialist finally reveals his authoritarian, elitist mindset. No surprises here. Thank god you scrotebrains don’t hold any power here.

                      • #133321
                        Anonymous
                        Guest

                        >meme buzzwords and protestant social teaching
                        Is that all you losers ever have? It’s no shock that your cultures lack any concept of shame.

          • #133300
            Anonymous
            Guest

            The GDP per capita of west Germany was almost twice that of the GDR according to (they even cite the CIA as well, go figure)
            https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_East_Germany

            >inb4 muh wikipedia
            Still more reliable than you meme pic

            • #133357
              Anonymous
              Guest

              GDP doesn’t determine prosperity it determines how much of society is subject to the market, free public services don’t increase GDP but privatized equivalents do.

              • #133361
                Anonymous
                Guest

                It’s been a while since my economics class, but if memory serves, GDP is (C + I + G + (EX – IM)), so consumption plus investment plus government spending plus the product of exports -imports is equal to GDP, so the government spending of a nationalised health system like we have in the uk would increase GDP.

                The idea of consumption being directly tied to GDP (and by extension prosperity) is obviously pretty bunk on the face of it, but that’s economics for you.

          • #133350
            Anonymous
            Guest

            >I hear in the depths of Langely they have a secret shrine to Stalin where all the glowies go to pray.
            Unshocking

      • #133302
        Anonymous
        Guest

        >UK gdp per capita almost the same as the USSR

        no wonder glowscrote intelligence is so bad

        • #133304
          Anonymous
          Guest

          >1985
          I’d believe it

          • #133307
            Anonymous
            Guest

            Why? Do you know what kind of hoops you had to jump through to buy a car or even freaking furniture in the Soviet Union? They were in constant deficit of consumer goods. The only thing they could manufacture well was tanks.

        • #133305
          Anonymous
          Guest

          Have you looked at what UK wages are like?

      • #133317
        Anonymous
        Guest

        >it’s real (aside from Portugal which was edited for memes)
        what the fuck was the CIA smoking?

        • #133319
          Anonymous
          Guest

          Generally, intelligence agencies try not to succumb to normie propaganda and biases, or they’d suck at their job. Underestimating (or overestimating) your enemy is a scrotebrained mistake. The CIA has other such classics as the average Soviet eating a better diet than the average American, pretty funny tbh.

          • #133323
            Anonymous
            Guest

            >average Soviet eating a better diet than the average American
            Wasn’t that true if you consider sugar and junk food as negatives?

        • #133339
          Anonymous
          Guest

          Actually, Portugal is real, too. Portugal was a real shithole before joining the EU

          • #133341
            Anonymous
            Guest

            it’s not scrotebrain
            6K for Portugal, why are you lying

            • #133343
              Anonymous
              Guest

              GDP per capita was $2.7k (can’t find GNP for 1985). I doubt GNP was far off from CIA’s projection.

              • #133344
                Anonymous
                Guest

                Forgot my picture

      • #133322
        Anonymous
        Guest

        You know western academia and intelligence had the remarkable habit of taking the official eastern bloc numbers for real even though they were totally made up?:
        http://von-der-lippe.org/dokumente/statistics_gdr.pdf
        (summary of a longer report by a german professor of statistics on east german economic statistics)

      • #133324
        Anonymous
        Guest

        The CIA is not to be trusted when providing statistics about the Eastern Bloc. They routinely over estimated capabilities to justify their own budget and general governmental corruption (eg the air force’s budget)

      • #133330
        Anonymous
        Guest

        >being relatively prosperous until adopting free market and then collapse and never recover.
        Pizza hut bros, I thought we had an objectively better system…
        >b-b-but they are over estimatin-
        I think righties seem to forget why they were called the second world.
        >my system is better even though it’s built on 300 year old power structures,
        nice confirmation bias there free marketards.

        • #133354
          Anonymous
          Guest

          seethe

        • #133358
          Anonymous
          Guest

          Your own graph shows that Western Europe beat Communism – are guys just scrotebrained?

      • #133335
        Anonymous
        Guest

        You got this from /int/.

      • #133345
        Anonymous
        Guest

        Woke af lmao

      • #133347
        Anonymous
        Guest

        From that map alone without checking i can say that it is BS. GNPpc is not even used to measure wealth or income, but borrowing capabilities of the state, it’s called GNI now i believe.

      • #133351
        Anonymous
        Guest

        Somewhere on the CIA page for economic espionage they lay out why they got East Germany’s economic size wrong, woke af on faulty currency conversion numbers

        • #133352
          Anonymous
          Guest

          woke af spreadsheet jockeys

      • #133353
        Anonymous
        Guest

        holy cope

      • #133355
        Anonymous
        Guest

        One of the most frequently cited examples of grossly flawed analysis by CIA concerns an erroneous entry in The World Factbook 1987 that stated that in 1986 West German GDP per capita was $100 lower than that of East Germany. This is cited by critics as demonstrating the extent to which CIA overestimated the strength of the Communist economies and failed to see the deterioration that led to the collapse of the Communist regimes.

        While the process that led to this is deserving of criticism and has since been corrected, the published figures were not a reflection of CIA’s analytical judgment of the relative performance and strength of the West German and East German economies. The discrepancy occurred as a consequence of separate analytic divisions using different methodologies to convert GDP into a dollar figure for inclusion in its World Factbook.

        The East German analyst, working with an outside contractor hired to devise ways of compensating for the inaccuracies of East German data, used “purchasing power parity ratios” (PPPRs) woke af on UN data to estimate GDP in dollars.
        The West German analyst applied the dollar-deutsche mark market exchange rate from 1985 to convert the 1986 West German GDP figure (used also by the OECD) into dollars.
        The problem from using two different conversion rates was compounded by the fact that in 1985 the dollar was booming compared to the deutsche mark. Thus, using the market exchange rate between the currencies resulted in a significant underestimation of the West German GDP.
        The isolated nature of the error is demonstrated by the fact that, in that same year, the Handbook of Economic Statistics published by the Directorate of Intelligence used a common methodology for converting GDP into dollars, reported 1986 West German per capita GDP as being 32 percent greater than the East German figure:

      • #133359
        Anonymous
        Guest

        Its amazing how commies are now blantantly faking data. You got BTFO’D here:

        Reminder that East Germany was so shitty that…

        >There was a massive workers protest and uprising against their new soviet overlords which was brutally suppressed (typical communist hypocrisy)

        >by 1961 20/TWENTY percent had fled to the west

        >The Commies experienced such a drain that they had to build a freaking wall to keep their people

        >still people would rather brave that murder gauntlet than live in a communist shithole (most of these were working class btw. Nice utopia scrotes)

        >for all the “USA CIA PUPPET!” Shit chudpol says, DDR has no sovereignty and were puppets of Moscow. Their leader even made out with Brezhnev like the good little cuck he is

        >being relatively prosperous until adopting free market and then collapse and never recover.
        Pizza hut bros, I thought we had an objectively better system…
        >b-b-but they are over estimatin-
        I think righties seem to forget why they were called the second world.
        >my system is better even though it’s built on 300 year old power structures,
        nice confirmation bias there free marketards.

        seethe

        One of the most frequently cited examples of grossly flawed analysis by CIA concerns an erroneous entry in The World Factbook 1987 that stated that in 1986 West German GDP per capita was $100 lower than that of East Germany. This is cited by critics as demonstrating the extent to which CIA overestimated the strength of the Communist economies and failed to see the deterioration that led to the collapse of the Communist regimes.

        While the process that led to this is deserving of criticism and has since been corrected, the published figures were not a reflection of CIA’s analytical judgment of the relative performance and strength of the West German and East German economies. The discrepancy occurred as a consequence of separate analytic divisions using different methodologies to convert GDP into a dollar figure for inclusion in its World Factbook.

        The East German analyst, working with an outside contractor hired to devise ways of compensating for the inaccuracies of East German data, used “purchasing power parity ratios” (PPPRs) woke af on UN data to estimate GDP in dollars.
        The West German analyst applied the dollar-deutsche mark market exchange rate from 1985 to convert the 1986 West German GDP figure (used also by the OECD) into dollars.
        The problem from using two different conversion rates was compounded by the fact that in 1985 the dollar was booming compared to the deutsche mark. Thus, using the market exchange rate between the currencies resulted in a significant underestimation of the West German GDP.
        The isolated nature of the error is demonstrated by the fact that, in that same year, the Handbook of Economic Statistics published by the Directorate of Intelligence used a common methodology for converting GDP into dollars, reported 1986 West German per capita GDP as being 32 percent greater than the East German figure:

        Its amazing how easy you freaking commie scrotebrains make it to debunk you. Its so freaking embrassing.
        You scrotes really think you can come here and just lie like this, and get away with it? LULZ will rekt you clowns everytime you spew this freaking non-sense.

    • #133296
      Anonymous
      Guest

      Reminder that East Germany was so shitty that…

      >There was a massive workers protest and uprising against their new soviet overlords which was brutally suppressed (typical communist hypocrisy)

      >by 1961 20/TWENTY percent had fled to the west

      >The Commies experienced such a drain that they had to build a freaking wall to keep their people

      >still people would rather brave that murder gauntlet than live in a communist shithole (most of these were working class btw. Nice utopia scrotes)

      >for all the “USA CIA PUPPET!” Shit chudpol says, DDR has no sovereignty and were puppets of Moscow. Their leader even made out with Brezhnev like the good little cuck he is

      • #133331
        Anonymous
        Guest

        >righties would risk dying to get some pizza hut because they believe in muh god scrotebraination
        being rightwing is a mental illness

        • #133336
          Anonymous
          Guest

          https://leftypol.org
          You will never live in USSR

        • #133366
          Anonymous
          Guest

          >Claim that material conditions are all that matters
          >Cant even offer better material conditions than capitalism, therefore rendering your entire ideology meaningless

    • #133303
      Anonymous
      Guest

      The fall of the DDR in 1989 directly led to the development of modern, soulless, globohomo Germany. Better to be poor and keep your national identity rather than end up like "Strong United Germany" has in our timeline.

      • #133314
        Anonymous
        Guest

        Anne?

        • #133316
          Anonymous
          Guest

          It’s aight bro

      • #133338
        Anonymous
        Guest

        >dude you should just be poor in an authoritarian shithole because muh national larp
        >even if we are also essentially puppets of the Russians

    • #133325
      Anonymous
      Guest

      Leftists are completely scrotebrained.

    • #133326
      Anonymous
      Guest

      It was a bastion of socialism and democracy in the heart of Europe. Where everyone had a job and a home and there was no war.
      Unlike West Germany, which is ruled by neonazis to this day, where prostitution, fascism, militarism, drug abuse, exploitation, racism, Zionism, colonial grip on Greece, pornography and bourgeois tyranny rule.

      • #133327
        Anonymous
        Guest

        >Unlike West Germany, which is ruled by neonazis to this day

        That’s a weird kind of Neo-Nazism they practice there

        • #133328
          Anonymous
          Guest

          Gladio agents and slave labourers for German capitalists.

          • #133329
            Anonymous
            Guest

            Its capitalistic as fuck sure, but its not Nazi. West German culture is ethnically masochistic to an insane degree.

            • #133332
              Anonymous
              Guest

              The core of nazism was anticommunism, that tradition was continued in the FRG.

              • #133333
                Anonymous
                Guest

                >nazism is when you don’t like communism
                lmao

                • #133337
                  Anonymous
                  Guest

                  At its core. The war waged against the USSR was unlike any other.

                  • #133362
                    Anonymous
                    Guest

                    Germany killed a higher percentage of Poolaks than Russoids, and the Poolaks weren’t Communist. Germany killed so many of them for being Slavic scrotes, not because they agreed to be ruled by gnomish Communists.

                    • #133364
                      Anonymous
                      Guest

                      The war against Poland was a conventional one. The war against the Soviets was very different, since all captured communists, political officers and government officials were ordered to be shot and POWs in camps killed en masse.

                      • #133365
                        Anonymous
                        Guest

                        All members of the Polish intelligentsia, former government officials, and military officers were ordered executed by the Germans. Everybody except Polish laborers and low ranking soldiers were ordered killed, and sed laborers and low ranking soldiers were corralled into slave labor camps. There was no difference in the treatment of Poland, Yugoslavia, or the Soviet Union, despite Poland’s Catholic Conservatism and Yugoslavia’s Orthodox Monarchism. Brutality against nations was due to the Slavicness of sed nations, not what government they were ruled by. The Czechs, despite the comparative Left Liberalism of their government/society and friendliness to the USSR, were treated far better than Poles or Serbs for the simple fact that they had more Germanic genetic influence than Poles or Serbs. Anti-Communism was simply a justification for the war of the Nazi regime against the Eastern nations for their future plans of Lebensraum. Had the primary goal of the Nazis been Anti-Communism they would simply have established Anti-Communist governments, rather than treat Slavic peoples as subhuman. It also was a ploy by Hitler to retain power in the early years as the majority of the German population was heavily Anti-Communist.

    • #133334
      Anonymous
      Guest

      tbh a lot of it comes from the fact that it represents a communist triumph over fascism

    • #133340
      Anonymous
      Guest

      Because they don’t actually give a damn about people’s quality of life, they’re religious fanatics obsessed with their pipedream of utopia.

    • #133342
      Anonymous
      Guest

      It’s just Rhodesia for tankies

    • #133346
      Anonymous
      Guest

      They had cool music.
      https://youtu.be/rrWH5ktKdgs

      • #133348
        Anonymous
        Guest

        lol ‘fartburg’

      • #133349
        Anonymous
        Guest

        >they
        this is a swede commie LARPer band from the late 90s

    • #133356
      Anonymous
      Guest
    • #133360
      Anonymous
      Guest

      Why?

      Quite simple. Germans were the most militant and organized, and had the best scientists, engineers, etc Prussians lived that way long before.
      This made it naturally the most advanced part of the Soviet Union.
      Basicly the Germans were the best anti communists and the best communists.
      They were just the best.

      The USA likewise benefited from a huge german population that made up its largest ethnic group from the 1800s on until they merely became ‘white’.

      Germanics are more advanced than slavs.
      Other things credited to Soviet slavs were actually German inventions too. They didn’t even give them a lot of the credit and yet still must acknowledge how well they did.

    • #133363
      Anonymous
      Guest

      Because commies don’t think, and they don’t want to think.

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