Why did Australia and New Zealand not become one country when they gained independence?

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    • #123952
      Anonymous
      Guest

      Why did Australia and New Zealand not end up becoming one country when they gained independence? What are the cultural differences between them?

    • #123953
      Anonymous
      Guest

      The Aussies feared the Maori

      • #124006
        Anonymous
        Guest

        They’re too far away from each other so being administered as a single country would be impractical, also different approaches to the relations with the natives.

        Three main reasons

        1. The “Great Depression” of 1890 was started in Australia and cause the whole world to go into a massive economic downturn. Australia had been a massive investment bubble in the UK stock trade and that bubble bonked up the world. The dominions were forming in the middle of this depression and New Zealand wanted nothing to do with the economic disaster. Had the dominions formed in the 1880’s it’s much more likely they would have joined.

        2. States within Australia traded more with each other than the UK. So it was natural for them to join together. New Zealand traded more with the Uk than Australia. So they were natural trade enemies, and joining Australia would have disrupted New Zealand’s trade.

        3. Cultural differences between New Zealand and Australia. Because New Zealand couldn’t fully conquer the Maori, they negotiated with them to give the Maori their own parliament and special rights and spending. The Maori after they had lost most of the land were still legal equals with the Anglo Kiwis and even had special rights the Anglos didn’t.

        Australia on the other hand didn’t let 90%+ of Aboriginals vote. Aboriginals had always been much less advanced than Maori and had the Aboriginals been totally conquered in every way by the British. The Aboriginals were not even viewed as fully human by the whites and had very few rights.

        New Zealand was worried that Australia would try to legally treat Maori like Aboriginals and that would lead to war. And would be a great tragedy to a people the Kiwis had come to respect.

        Also in many ways Kiwis looked down on Aussies as Kiwis parents and grandparents in that time generally had been middle class British people. Meanwhile Australians had been convicts, and had been drawn from the lower class of British society and were disproportionately Irish. So the Kiwis had a certain sense of superiority of the Aussies for being the favored child of the Empire.

        >Why did Australia and New Zealand not end up becoming one country when they gained independence?
        Because the kiwis didn’t want their maori getting lumped in with the abbos under Australia’s laws, as they thought maoris deserved better.
        >What are the cultural differences between them?
        none.

        >It was never going to happen because of the Maoris
        This is just complete bullshit, when New Zealand raised this issue the Australians changed the laws to not interfere with the treaty of Waitangi. Australians new just how destructive the wars were as many volunteers from the mainland fought in it. It was also a real possibility that should the treaty be broken the Germans would fund a rebellion by the Maori as they were looking to expand their influence in the Asia pacific region (New Guinea and Samoa)

        • #124012
          Anonymous
          Guest

          Just because the Australians say one thing one day doesn’t mean they couldn’t change their mind the next. White Australia Policy was a big part of the creation of the Australian Federation. Don’t forget one of the first major policies of Australia was the deportation all non whites that had come from Blackbirding In Queensland, and to declare that only whites could naturalize as citizens. All it would take is one law change were the extremely white Supremacist Australian government and the Maori would be in major jeopardy.

    • #123954
      Anonymous
      Guest

      New South Wales wanted all trade inbound and outbound from NZ to go through Sydney

      • #123956
        Anonymous
        Guest

        As it should to this day

      • #123957
        Anonymous
        Guest

        Woke af.

    • #123955
      Anonymous
      Guest

      They’re too far away from each other so being administered as a single country would be impractical, also different approaches to the relations with the natives.

      • #123959
        Anonymous
        Guest

        By that logic Western australia shouldn’t be in australia, it’s much further away from Victoria/NSW than the entirety of NZ

        • #123962
          Anonymous
          Guest

          Western Australia tried to leave and London said No.

          • #123963
            Anonymous
            Guest

            Why?

            • #123964
              Anonymous
              Guest

              God freaking knows but westralia was almost a thing.

              • #123965
                Anonymous
                Guest

                Would probably have gone to shit before the 70s mining boom

            • #123966
              Anonymous
              Guest

              Because western australia is almost like an island on its own, completely detached from the rest of the population of the country, separated by thousands of miles of ocean and desert

            • #123983
              Anonymous
              Guest

              Australia is like hotel California, you enter any time you like, but you can never leave.

            • #123986
              Anonymous
              Guest

              Originally Western Australia joined Australia because it had no economy and was a backwater. Eventually Western Australia discovered gold and became rich. The Western Australian voted to leave Australia, but the British high court struck down their independence because they said once a state joined Australia it was not allowed to secede under the Australian constitution.

              • #123991
                Anonymous
                Guest

                WA joined the Federation partly because the Gold Rush, which began in the 90s, brought thousands of easterners who eagerly voted "Yes" into the goldfields. The agricultural areas in the South West, which were responsible for WA’s biggest exports until mining really took off all voted against joining the rest of Australia.
                Westralia is an interesting "VGH, what could have been…" but I don’t think we would have been any better off on our own.

              • #124004
                Anonymous
                Guest

                >but the British high court struck down their independence because they said once a state joined Australia it was not allowed to secede under the Australian constitution.

                No they didn’t. WA asked the British parliament to amend the constitution, which was (and still is) an Act of the British Parliament. They could have done it but said no because the Australian federal government didn’t support it.

                Secession is legal in Australia but only through amending the constitution, which is very hard because a majority of people in a majority of states would have to vote to let a particular state go.

                The territories can be granted independence by Parlaiment however, like Papua new guinea was, so potentially the northern territory or the A.C.T could secede through an Act of Parliament.

                • #124005
                  Anonymous
                  Guest

                  >so potentially the northern territory or the A.C.T could secede

                  Aboriginal ethnostate when

                  • #124009
                    Anonymous
                    Guest

                    would literally end up worse than the democratic republic of the congo or somethinthing without gimmedats

      • #123977
        Anonymous
        Guest

        >They’re too far away from each other so being administered as a single country would be impractical.
        ???
        The distance between Canberra and Wellington is half the distance between Sacramento, California and Washington, D.C.

        • #123980
          Anonymous
          Guest

          You can’t build roads and railways over the high seas.

          • #123981
            Anonymous
            Guest

            What about Hawaii?

          • #123982
            Anonymous
            Guest

            Going from Sydney to Auckland was shorter than Sydney to perth by boat in 1900

    • #123958
      Anonymous
      Guest

      emus can’t swim that far

    • #123960
      Anonymous
      Guest

      >Why did Australia and New Zealand not end up becoming one country when they gained independence? What are the cultural differences between them?

      They’re the same differences as the United States and Canada (minus Quebec).

      • #123996
        Anonymous
        Guest

        Mostly trivial differences that one side massively overstates so they can pretend they totally aren’t exactly the goddamn same?

    • #123961
      Anonymous
      Guest

      Three main reasons

      1. The “Great Depression” of 1890 was started in Australia and cause the whole world to go into a massive economic downturn. Australia had been a massive investment bubble in the UK stock trade and that bubble bonked up the world. The dominions were forming in the middle of this depression and New Zealand wanted nothing to do with the economic disaster. Had the dominions formed in the 1880’s it’s much more likely they would have joined.

      2. States within Australia traded more with each other than the UK. So it was natural for them to join together. New Zealand traded more with the Uk than Australia. So they were natural trade enemies, and joining Australia would have disrupted New Zealand’s trade.

      3. Cultural differences between New Zealand and Australia. Because New Zealand couldn’t fully conquer the Maori, they negotiated with them to give the Maori their own parliament and special rights and spending. The Maori after they had lost most of the land were still legal equals with the Anglo Kiwis and even had special rights the Anglos didn’t.

      Australia on the other hand didn’t let 90%+ of Aboriginals vote. Aboriginals had always been much less advanced than Maori and had the Aboriginals been totally conquered in every way by the British. The Aboriginals were not even viewed as fully human by the whites and had very few rights.

      New Zealand was worried that Australia would try to legally treat Maori like Aboriginals and that would lead to war. And would be a great tragedy to a people the Kiwis had come to respect.

      Also in many ways Kiwis looked down on Aussies as Kiwis parents and grandparents in that time generally had been middle class British people. Meanwhile Australians had been convicts, and had been drawn from the lower class of British society and were disproportionately Irish. So the Kiwis had a certain sense of superiority of the Aussies for being the favored child of the Empire.

      • #123967
        Anonymous
        Guest

        The last point makes me want to sink NZ into the sea, literally anglos liking abos over their siss in Australia because they were poor

        Hope NZ gets ravaged by an earthquake followed by economic depression and then a race war

        • #123968
          Anonymous
          Guest

          >The last point makes me want to sink NZ into the sea, literally anglos liking abos over their siss in Australia because they were poor

          You hate them for acting like backstabbing anglos?

          • #123969
            Anonymous
            Guest

            race traitors who today are basically a reddit country

            Canada is worse though

            • #123971
              Anonymous
              Guest

              Race traitors are cool tho

              • #123972
                Anonymous
                Guest

                t. race traitor

                • #123974
                  Anonymous
                  Guest

                  Seethe

        • #123973
          Anonymous
          Guest

          >Irish
          >siss
          Seamus…

        • #123990
          Anonymous
          Guest

          You will never have a ethnostate

        • #123994
          Anonymous
          Guest

          White kiwis would definitely lose that race war

      • #123976
        Anonymous
        Guest

        This guy explains it. Especially the part about about Kiwis looking down on Aussies because of their convict ancestry.

      • #123995
        Anonymous
        Guest

        Great points, I’d only add another fear New Zealanders had, was of the notable Chinese population in NSW and Victoria which they feared of coming to New Zealand. Additionally, the Australian Constitution was formed without any New Zealander consultation, and was presented to them as something to either join or refuse, and not something which they could negotiate on.

        The last point makes me want to sink NZ into the sea, literally anglos liking abos over their siss in Australia because they were poor

        Hope NZ gets ravaged by an earthquake followed by economic depression and then a race war

        Maori =/= Aboriginals. The Treaty of Waitangi and subsequent negoatiaons were done on purpose to avoid the bloody conquest which would’ve been necessary to take New Zealand. When the British attempted to undermine the treaty, the Maori King Movement effectively checked them for decades. The New Zealand Wars were far more destructive than any Australian frontier war, bar maybe the Black War.

    • #123970
      Anonymous
      Guest

      >Why did Australia and New Zealand not end up becoming one country when they gained independence?
      Because the kiwis didn’t want their maori getting lumped in with the abbos under Australia’s laws, as they thought maoris deserved better.
      >What are the cultural differences between them?
      none.

    • #123978
      Anonymous
      Guest
      • #123979
        Anonymous
        Guest

        And almost the entirety of it is shitty useless uninhabitable wasteland.

        • #123984
          Anonymous
          Guest

          the midwest has been improving over the last ten years

          • #123985
            Anonymous
            Guest

            Kek

      • #123987
        Anonymous
        Guest

        Always been curious about this:
        Is Regina pronounced like ruh-jai-nuh or like ruh-gai-nuh?

        • #123988
          Anonymous
          Guest

          Reh Jee Naa

    • #123989
      Anonymous
      Guest

      >ywn live in the emperor Tony Abbott annexing NZ timeline

      • #123993
        Anonymous
        Guest

        >instead we ended up with some fat useless prick who once shit himself at a maccas
        Woke af Abbott was too woke af for our timeline

    • #123997
      Anonymous
      Guest

      Do you see that big ocean

      • #123998
        Anonymous
        Guest

        Do you see that big desert?

        • #124001
          Anonymous
          Guest

          It is easier to sail along the coast than it is to sail across the Tasman

      • #124000
        Anonymous
        Guest

        Do you see that big ocean

    • #123999
      Anonymous
      Guest

      I told them not to

      • #124011
        Anonymous
        Guest

        Woke af time traveller.

    • #124002
      Anonymous
      Guest

      Why didn’t the Dutch, who had been visiting Australia for longer than the British, and had colonies right next to Australia, not colonise it? Not even the Western half?

      • #124003
        Anonymous
        Guest

        The West doesn’t exactly look like a useful place to settle

        • #124013
          Anonymous
          Guest

          South West is pretty fertile.

          They only saw uninhabitable desert

          Most of the coast is either tropical in the north or Temperate in the south. Land on the coast and you’ll see a jungle or fields.

          • #124014
            Anonymous
            Guest

            Not in Western Australia and even in the NT where it’s tropical the soil is desert like.

      • #124007
        Anonymous
        Guest

        Australia didn’t have spices like Indonesia or sugar like the West Indies

        And Dutch are notoriously poor settlers, all the Afrikaner come from a few thousands settlers of whom the majority was german or french, not Dutch

      • #124010
        Anonymous
        Guest

        They only saw uninhabitable desert

    • #124008
      Anonymous
      Guest

      NZ voted on it and decided not to be part of Aus. It was that simple.

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