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Why did Australia and New Zealand not end up becoming one country when they gained independence? What are the cultural differences between them?
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The Aussies feared the Maori
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Three main reasons
1. The “Great Depression” of 1890 was started in Australia and cause the whole world to go into a massive economic downturn. Australia had been a massive investment bubble in the UK stock trade and that bubble bonked up the world. The dominions were forming in the middle of this depression and New Zealand wanted nothing to do with the economic disaster. Had the dominions formed in the 1880’s it’s much more likely they would have joined.
2. States within Australia traded more with each other than the UK. So it was natural for them to join together. New Zealand traded more with the Uk than Australia. So they were natural trade enemies, and joining Australia would have disrupted New Zealand’s trade.
3. Cultural differences between New Zealand and Australia. Because New Zealand couldn’t fully conquer the Maori, they negotiated with them to give the Maori their own parliament and special rights and spending. The Maori after they had lost most of the land were still legal equals with the Anglo Kiwis and even had special rights the Anglos didn’t.
Australia on the other hand didn’t let 90%+ of Aboriginals vote. Aboriginals had always been much less advanced than Maori and had the Aboriginals been totally conquered in every way by the British. The Aboriginals were not even viewed as fully human by the whites and had very few rights.
New Zealand was worried that Australia would try to legally treat Maori like Aboriginals and that would lead to war. And would be a great tragedy to a people the Kiwis had come to respect.
Also in many ways Kiwis looked down on Aussies as Kiwis parents and grandparents in that time generally had been middle class British people. Meanwhile Australians had been convicts, and had been drawn from the lower class of British society and were disproportionately Irish. So the Kiwis had a certain sense of superiority of the Aussies for being the favored child of the Empire.
>It was never going to happen because of the Maoris
This is just complete bullshit, when New Zealand raised this issue the Australians changed the laws to not interfere with the treaty of Waitangi. Australians new just how destructive the wars were as many volunteers from the mainland fought in it. It was also a real possibility that should the treaty be broken the Germans would fund a rebellion by the Maori as they were looking to expand their influence in the Asia pacific region (New Guinea and Samoa)-
Just because the Australians say one thing one day doesn’t mean they couldn’t change their mind the next. White Australia Policy was a big part of the creation of the Australian Federation. Don’t forget one of the first major policies of Australia was the deportation all non whites that had come from Blackbirding In Queensland, and to declare that only whites could naturalize as citizens. All it would take is one law change were the extremely white Supremacist Australian government and the Maori would be in major jeopardy.
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New South Wales wanted all trade inbound and outbound from NZ to go through Sydney
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As it should to this day
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Woke af.
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They’re too far away from each other so being administered as a single country would be impractical, also different approaches to the relations with the natives.
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By that logic Western australia shouldn’t be in australia, it’s much further away from Victoria/NSW than the entirety of NZ
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Western Australia tried to leave and London said No.
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Why?
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God freaking knows but westralia was almost a thing.
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Would probably have gone to shit before the 70s mining boom
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Because western australia is almost like an island on its own, completely detached from the rest of the population of the country, separated by thousands of miles of ocean and desert
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Same could be said of the Pacific Coast’s relationship with the rest of the US tbh.
I’ve tried driving from Arizona to San Diego in August. It’s awful. We (I had a co-driver) had to carry shitloads of distilled water in case the radiator dried out. -
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Australia is like hotel California, you enter any time you like, but you can never leave.
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Originally Western Australia joined Australia because it had no economy and was a backwater. Eventually Western Australia discovered gold and became rich. The Western Australian voted to leave Australia, but the British high court struck down their independence because they said once a state joined Australia it was not allowed to secede under the Australian constitution.
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WA joined the Federation partly because the Gold Rush, which began in the 90s, brought thousands of easterners who eagerly voted "Yes" into the goldfields. The agricultural areas in the South West, which were responsible for WA’s biggest exports until mining really took off all voted against joining the rest of Australia.
Westralia is an interesting "VGH, what could have been…" but I don’t think we would have been any better off on our own. -
>but the British high court struck down their independence because they said once a state joined Australia it was not allowed to secede under the Australian constitution.
No they didn’t. WA asked the British parliament to amend the constitution, which was (and still is) an Act of the British Parliament. They could have done it but said no because the Australian federal government didn’t support it.
Secession is legal in Australia but only through amending the constitution, which is very hard because a majority of people in a majority of states would have to vote to let a particular state go.
The territories can be granted independence by Parlaiment however, like Papua new guinea was, so potentially the northern territory or the A.C.T could secede through an Act of Parliament.
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>so potentially the northern territory or the A.C.T could secede
Aboriginal ethnostate when
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would literally end up worse than the democratic republic of the congo or somethinthing without gimmedats
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>They’re too far away from each other so being administered as a single country would be impractical.
???
The distance between Canberra and Wellington is half the distance between Sacramento, California and Washington, D.C.-
You can’t build roads and railways over the high seas.
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What about Hawaii?
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Going from Sydney to Auckland was shorter than Sydney to perth by boat in 1900
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emus can’t swim that far
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>Why did Australia and New Zealand not end up becoming one country when they gained independence? What are the cultural differences between them?
They’re the same differences as the United States and Canada (minus Quebec).
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Mostly trivial differences that one side massively overstates so they can pretend they totally aren’t exactly the goddamn same?
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Three main reasons
1. The “Great Depression” of 1890 was started in Australia and cause the whole world to go into a massive economic downturn. Australia had been a massive investment bubble in the UK stock trade and that bubble bonked up the world. The dominions were forming in the middle of this depression and New Zealand wanted nothing to do with the economic disaster. Had the dominions formed in the 1880’s it’s much more likely they would have joined.
2. States within Australia traded more with each other than the UK. So it was natural for them to join together. New Zealand traded more with the Uk than Australia. So they were natural trade enemies, and joining Australia would have disrupted New Zealand’s trade.
3. Cultural differences between New Zealand and Australia. Because New Zealand couldn’t fully conquer the Maori, they negotiated with them to give the Maori their own parliament and special rights and spending. The Maori after they had lost most of the land were still legal equals with the Anglo Kiwis and even had special rights the Anglos didn’t.
Australia on the other hand didn’t let 90%+ of Aboriginals vote. Aboriginals had always been much less advanced than Maori and had the Aboriginals been totally conquered in every way by the British. The Aboriginals were not even viewed as fully human by the whites and had very few rights.
New Zealand was worried that Australia would try to legally treat Maori like Aboriginals and that would lead to war. And would be a great tragedy to a people the Kiwis had come to respect.
Also in many ways Kiwis looked down on Aussies as Kiwis parents and grandparents in that time generally had been middle class British people. Meanwhile Australians had been convicts, and had been drawn from the lower class of British society and were disproportionately Irish. So the Kiwis had a certain sense of superiority of the Aussies for being the favored child of the Empire.
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The last point makes me want to sink NZ into the sea, literally anglos liking abos over their siss in Australia because they were poor
Hope NZ gets ravaged by an earthquake followed by economic depression and then a race war
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>The last point makes me want to sink NZ into the sea, literally anglos liking abos over their siss in Australia because they were poor
You hate them for acting like backstabbing anglos?
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race traitors who today are basically a reddit country
Canada is worse though
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Race traitors are cool tho
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t. race traitor
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Seethe
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>Irish
>siss
Seamus… -
You will never have a ethnostate
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White kiwis would definitely lose that race war
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This guy explains it. Especially the part about about Kiwis looking down on Aussies because of their convict ancestry.
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Great points, I’d only add another fear New Zealanders had, was of the notable Chinese population in NSW and Victoria which they feared of coming to New Zealand. Additionally, the Australian Constitution was formed without any New Zealander consultation, and was presented to them as something to either join or refuse, and not something which they could negotiate on.
Hope NZ gets ravaged by an earthquake followed by economic depression and then a race war
Maori =/= Aboriginals. The Treaty of Waitangi and subsequent negoatiaons were done on purpose to avoid the bloody conquest which would’ve been necessary to take New Zealand. When the British attempted to undermine the treaty, the Maori King Movement effectively checked them for decades. The New Zealand Wars were far more destructive than any Australian frontier war, bar maybe the Black War.
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>Why did Australia and New Zealand not end up becoming one country when they gained independence?
Because the kiwis didn’t want their maori getting lumped in with the abbos under Australia’s laws, as they thought maoris deserved better.
>What are the cultural differences between them?
none. -
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And almost the entirety of it is shitty useless uninhabitable wasteland.
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the midwest has been improving over the last ten years
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Kek
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Always been curious about this:
Is Regina pronounced like ruh-jai-nuh or like ruh-gai-nuh?-
Reh Jee Naa
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>ywn live in the emperor Tony Abbott annexing NZ timeline
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>instead we ended up with some fat useless prick who once shit himself at a maccas
Woke af Abbott was too woke af for our timeline
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Do you see that big ocean
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Do you see that big desert?
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It is easier to sail along the coast than it is to sail across the Tasman
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Do you see that big ocean
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I told them not to
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Woke af time traveller.
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Why didn’t the Dutch, who had been visiting Australia for longer than the British, and had colonies right next to Australia, not colonise it? Not even the Western half?
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The West doesn’t exactly look like a useful place to settle
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South West is pretty fertile.
Most of the coast is either tropical in the north or Temperate in the south. Land on the coast and you’ll see a jungle or fields.
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Not in Western Australia and even in the NT where it’s tropical the soil is desert like.
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Australia didn’t have spices like Indonesia or sugar like the West Indies
And Dutch are notoriously poor settlers, all the Afrikaner come from a few thousands settlers of whom the majority was german or french, not Dutch
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They only saw uninhabitable desert
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NZ voted on it and decided not to be part of Aus. It was that simple.
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