Was decolonization messy on purpose?

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    • #112509
      Anonymous
      Guest

      Was decolonization messy on purpose?

    • #112510
      Anonymous
      Guest

      Yes obviously.

      • #112627
        Anonymous
        Guest

        >Obviously

    • #112511
      Anonymous
      Guest

      In most of Africa no.
      For the French parts absolutely.

      • #112515
        Anonymous
        Guest

        Love this narrative in the English speaking world according to which Britain was nice and all but France was awful
        It’s like France is their boogeyman to avoid talking about how they themselves behaved
        France didn’t do half the bonked up shit Britain did in Africa. Hell, the South Africa apartheid remains the worse case of decolonization and it didn’t occur in a French colony.

        • #112521
          Anonymous
          Guest

          >the South Africa apartheid remains the worse case of decolonization
          Nearly all of the worst countries in Africa have French origins, you freaking what? Are you really going to argue that Mali and Chad are or were ever in a better state than freaking South Africa?

          • #112523
            Anonymous
            Guest

            Sounds arbitrary

            • #112524
              Anonymous
              Guest

              Defining Apartheid as "the worse case of decolonization" is far more arbitrary than observing objective living conditions like secure access to food or water you freaking mong.

              • #112537
                Anonymous
                Guest

                Colonization ha s been over for some time, any conditions the blacks are living in now is due to their own actions

                • #112540
                  Anonymous
                  Guest

                  >Colonization ha s been over for some time
                  Not that logn to be honest.

                  >any conditions the blacks are living in now is due to their own actions
                  Because things don’t occur in a vacuum like the rest of the world does. Many of the shit you see now is a result of the actions and polices done back in the day. Yes they are things that are done due to locals entities and stuff like that but you can’t be daft and completely just ignore the colonial era and the tumultuous decade after that

                  • #112545
                    Anonymous
                    Guest

                    It’s not white people’s fault that blacks are super corruptible

                    • #112547
                      Anonymous
                      Guest

                      Generalizing the entire population of sub-saharan Africa doesn’t add to the discussion.
                      Botswana has a massive AIDS problem but otherwise avoided political instability, extreme corruption etc despite or in fact because colonial rule amounted to little more than acknowledging British overlordship.

                      • #112550
                        Anonymous
                        Guest

                        Botswana is only relevant because of its diamond mines, otherwise its an absolute shithole

                      • #112555
                        Anonymous
                        Guest

                        It isn’t an absolute shithole though, it’s better than most sub-saharan countries. Many of those countries also have valuable resources but have thus far failed to successfully use them to the benefit of the country as a whole. Botswana did.
                        Whatever point you tried to make is false.

                      • #112563
                        Anonymous
                        Guest

                        So what you’re saying is that Africa needs to have more foreign funded resource extraction so africans can huddle around the giant vacuum hose for warmth because they’re not ever going to do anything themselves

                      • #112564
                        Anonymous
                        Guest

                        You sound like some mentally unhinged man on some new sites comment section lol

                      • #112566
                        Anonymous
                        Guest

                        >dude africa’s great if it has diamonds!
                        okay

                  • #112554
                    Anonymous
                    Guest

                    >Not that logn to be honest.

                    Africa was colonized for 80 years
                    Africa has been independent for 60 years

                    • #112561
                      Anonymous
                      Guest

                      >Africa was colonized for 80 years
                      >Africa has been independent for 60 years
                      Still pretty long especially in an era where tech has made massive jumps and the whole conquest game radically changed where things went much faster than they did in previous centuries lol. Look at Angola. The Portuguese only made the jump from their small coastal control to full on domination in the 1920’s after having been in Africa for literal centuries.

          • #112535
            Anonymous
            Guest

            >Nearly all of the worst countries in Africa have French origins
            South Sudan? Somalia? Zimbabwe? Britain left behind a fair share of horrific shitholes

            >Are you really going to argue that Mali and Chad are or were ever in a better state than freaking South Africa?
            The French left them as shitholes, just like they found them. But at least they didn’t leave behind a racist cast of white colonist ruling over the locals like the British did in SA.

            • #112538
              Anonymous
              Guest

              >Somalia
              Italian

              >Zimbabwe
              Actually doing better now.. Still in the gutter but actually making little steps to recovery.

              >Britain left behind a fair share of horrific shitholes
              True but they thing is that many of them are on their road to recovery or actually have a chance of making it big.

          • #112570
            Anonymous
            Guest

            >Hell, the South Africa apartheid remains the worse case of decolonization and it didn’t occur in a French colony.
            Yeah dude because what the French did in Algeria, Cameroon, Mali, Niger, Chad, and Mauritius was just so benign. Especially Algeria, Apartheid was so much worse than the military directly torturing and killing civilians.

            He kind of has a point though
            Don’t get me wrong, the French weren’t any better than the British like he claims, but they also weren’t any worse like it’s often claimed by the British.
            As someone who studied African history thoroughly, I can tell you that the (slight) difference between French and British former colonies in black Africa doesn’t boil down to how the colonial masters behaved but rather to where the colonies were located.

            East Africans are superior to West Africans. There, I said it.
            West Africa will always be a shithole.
            The only "successful" British colony located there, Nigeria, only "does well" economically due to its massive population (kinda like India "does well"). But in reality Nigeria is a godawful poverty-ridden shithole that hosts one of the most heinous terror group on the whole planet.
            If I was given the choince between living in the "successful" Nigeria or in Kenya/Tanzania, i’d choose in a split second.

            • #112576
              Anonymous
              Guest

              What do you think about Ghana history? What do you think is in store for Ghana?

            • #112598
              Anonymous
              Guest

              >The only "successful" British colony located there, Nigeria, only "does well" economically due to its massive population (kinda like India "does well"). But in reality Nigeria is a godawful poverty-ridden shithole that hosts one of the most heinous terror group on the whole planet.
              Ghana is objectively far more successful than Nigeria, has a lower poverty rate, better access to education, and better Infastrcture.
              Even Sierra Leone is starting to get better, and is turning into a better functioning Democracy.

            • #112610
              Anonymous
              Guest

              >mfw Ghana is now a French colony

              • #112611
                Anonymous
                Guest

                The post your quoting doesn’t say or even imply such a thing though
                Can’t you read?

                • #112626
                  Anonymous
                  Guest

                  Yes I can indeed. He claims Nigeria is the only somewhat successful British Colony in west Africa, which means he’s implying
                  a) Ghana is less successful than Nigeria, which is a glaringly false claim
                  b) or he’s implying Ghana is not a British colony, which if not, would imply it to be another part of French West Africa
                  Both implications are false but I gave him benefit of the doubt and assumed he meant the less scrotebrained claim

            • #112629
              Anonymous
              Guest

              >West Africa
              Best: Ghana (british)
              Worst: Mali (french)
              >East Africa
              Best: Kenya (british)
              Worst: Burundi (belgian)
              >Indian Ocean
              Best: Mauritius (british)
              Worst: Madagascar (french)

              • #112630
                Anonymous
                Guest

                >West Africa
                >Worst: Mali (french)
                It’s actually Niger (which is French as well)
                Mali has a pretty bad HDI (roughly similar to the shithole British ex-colony Sierra Leone) but still quite above Nig(g)er

                >East Africa
                Worst: Burundi (belgian)
                Burundi is considered part of Central Africa, and anyway has a higher HDI than South Soudan (British) which is in East Africa

        • #112526
          Anonymous
          Guest

          >Hell, the South Africa apartheid remains the worse case of decolonization and it didn’t occur in a French colony.
          Yeah dude because what the French did in Algeria, Cameroon, Mali, Niger, Chad, and Mauritius was just so benign. Especially Algeria, Apartheid was so much worse than the military directly torturing and killing civilians.

          • #112528
            Anonymous
            Guest

            You left out Madagascar. Lol the French bonked them up hard.

            • #112529
              Anonymous
              Guest

              I knew I was forgetting somewhere important, thanks anon. It’s laughable to call Apartheid the worst thing that happened down there.

          • #112534
            Anonymous
            Guest

            You think people weren’t being tortured and killed under Apartheid?

          • #112541
            Anonymous
            Guest

            >Yeah dude because what the French did in Algeria, Cameroon, Mali, Niger, Chad, and Mauritius was just so benign.
            The French did bonked up shit in Algeria, but not in the other countries you randomly mentioned for now reasons afterward.

            >Especially Algeria, Apartheid was so much worse than the military directly torturing and killing civilians.
            Yeah, bad things happen during guerrilla warfare.
            The Americans did the same in Iraq, the British did the same in Ireland….etc
            That’s bad but nowhere near as bonked up as doing shit like that during freaking peace time like in South Africa.

        • #112539
          Anonymous
          Guest

          I love the french narrative more. It’s like a pendulum. They swing from outright denying they did anything bad in colonial africa to taunting nafris with pictures of lynched algerians and the infamous "algie drowning practice in the seine" photo whenever they get in an argument. What an absolute schizophrenic race.

          • #112546
            Anonymous
            Guest

            >poltards are scrotebrained
            What a fascinating discovery

            • #112553
              Anonymous
              Guest

              Eh, I don’t frequent /poo/. I comment on what I see from french posters on /int/ and even normalscrotes on f*c*book

          • #112551
            Anonymous
            Guest

            Algerians really don’t have any self awareness, it’s amazing
            The drowings in Paris in 1961 occurred during a pro-FLN rally at the heart of Paris, after FLN terror attacks in Paris had been killing dozens of policemen in the previous weeks.
            So yes, the policemen snapped when they saw a pro-terrorism rally in their freaking city by a bunch of foreigners, just like any other police in the world would have.

            Algerians are one of the most wicked people on earth and everything they got during colonization they fully deserved it (unlike sub-saharan africans, viets, native americans….etc)
            Hell, the very reason why Algeria was colonized in the first place is because these subhumans had been enslaving Europeans for centuries
            Most justified colonial conquest ever

            • #112558
              Anonymous
              Guest
            • #112560
              Anonymous
              Guest

              >Algerians are one of the most wicked people on earth and everything they got during colonization they fully deserved it
              How bonked are you in the head?

              >Hell, the very reason why Algeria was colonized in the first place is because these subhumans had been enslaving Europeans for centuries
              that was actually the first war that various Euros cracked down on Algeria. The reason for the conquest was not due to "THEY ENSLAVED US".

            • #112601
              Anonymous
              Guest

              What gave French the right to steal resources from Algeria? Dirty kaafir your time is up now Muslims will give you something back

              • #112602
                Anonymous
                Guest

                What resources? Algerians lived or piracy and goat herding when the French arrived
                Soil was full of oil but it aint like them sheep fucker knew how to extract it or even had the technology to use it.
                Btw colonization was a payback for the enslavement of white europeans by Algerians

                • #112604
                  Anonymous
                  Guest

                  >Btw colonization was a payback for the enslavement of white europeans by Algerians
                  It wasn’t you scrotebrain. the "payback" was done long before the colonization and even back then Europeans used the pirates within the area as way to hinder their allies. this whole "payback " is rooted in some scrotebrained entitlement.

              • #112603
                Anonymous
                Guest

                >resources from Algeria
                What, like their alfalfa farms?

          • #112556
            Anonymous
            Guest

            Well, the "crimes against humanity" in Algeria never happened but boy i sure wish they did

          • #112572
            Anonymous
            Guest

            It might be the narrative among far-right French people who are butthurt about getting ethnically replaced, but it’s definitly not the official French narrative.
            Everyone in France has heard about that insignificant "massacre" in which dozens of pro-FLN protesters in Paris were beat up and thrown in the Seine by the exasperated police they had been killing for months.
            This shit is taught in French school and the French president apologizes for it every year.

            Meanwhile, I doubt anyone in France below the age of 60 has ever heard of the infamous massacres perpetrated by Algerians on Pieds-noirs and garden gnomes on 20 August 1955.
            This shit was basically the turning point of the Algerian War and turned a decolonization conflict into a race war.
            That day the Algerians reached a level of barbarity (a word that comes from "Beber", how fitting) that would make the Dirlewanger brigade puke in disgust. Not even the worst of what the French army later did to Algerian rebels (in reprisal for that day) such as torturing them with electricity on the dick, even comes close to what Algerians did to random civilians on that day.

            • #112575
              Anonymous
              Guest

              You vastly overestimate the memory or historical knowledge of the average French person

            • #112577
              Anonymous
              Guest

              >a word that comes from "Beber", how fitting
              You got that wrong, champ. Bar bar is influenced from the greek Barbaroi which was used to describe all non hellene. Say, even your gallic ancestors were called Barbaroi at one point or the other.
              By the way, since it’s a matter of perspective, and you consider it wholly justified and legal to lynch and nuke nafris, I’m pretty sure nafris felt wholly justified in killing a bunch of settlers who weren’t native to the land, no? Funny how morality works both ways.

              • #112578
                Anonymous
                Guest

                Pretty sure this guy is German
                Anyways yes, "the suitcase or the coffin" works both ways and i am fine with it
                I will add that pieds noirs are a bunch of spanish garden gnomes who have been a pain in the ass ever since they came back and if it were up to me i’d have left them with the Algerians, i’d even have exchanged them for the harkis

              • #112580
                Anonymous
                Guest

                >By the way, since it’s a matter of perspective, and you consider it wholly justified and legal to lynch and nuke nafris, I’m pretty sure nafris felt wholly justified in killing a bunch of settlers who weren’t native to the land, no? Funny how morality works both ways.

                I’m sure even the most racist guys in France just want to remigrate muslims and not genocide them.
                I doubt any of them could castrate a father in front of his children before killing them all or slice newborns with a cleaver like Algerians did to random white and gnomish civilians on that day
                Only arabs (and maybe mexicans) are capable of that kind of sadistic shit

                • #112588
                  Anonymous
                  Guest

                  Kek, what? Are you implying that the pieds noirs were in any way less violent in their "Retaliations" against the natives? Or are you trying to paint them as the ultimate victim of le evil algerians? Jesus Christ, get a grip.
                  And no, the most racist guy in france would absolutely genocide les bougnoules. Do you specialize in selective deafness?

                  • #112589
                    Anonymous
                    Guest

                    Algerians are the scum of the earth, aren’t they the kidnapping capitol of the world?

                  • #112590
                    Anonymous
                    Guest

                    >Are you implying that the pieds noirs were in any way less violent in their "Retaliations" against the natives?

                    Factually yes
                    Sometimes they’d shoot or beat to death an innocent Algerian, but this doesnt even come close to the ISIS-tier gorey shit the Algerians had done to cause these retaliations to begin with

                  • #112592
                    Anonymous
                    Guest

                    French people in 2021 are just as justified in wanting to kill every Algerian in France as the Algerians were justified in 1960 in wanting to kill every French person in Algeria.
                    French people in France and Algerian people in Algeria.

                  • #112593
                    Anonymous
                    Guest

                    No matter how biased you are, beating up someone before throwing him in a river or throwing someone to his death from a helicopter is objectively less bad than castrating a father in front of his kids and putting the genitals in his mouth or hacking newborns into pieces with a cleaver.
                    The French were brutal and rutheless while the Algerians were barbaric and sadistic.

                  • #112597
                    Anonymous
                    Guest

                    >And no, the most racist guy in france would absolutely genocide les bougnoules. Do you specialize in selective deafness?

                    The French far-right’s favorite word is "rémigration", not "génocide"

                  • #112620
                    Anonymous
                    Guest

                    The most racist guy in any country would absolutely genocide every other race. Except they don’t have any power because they are scrotebrained. You need diplomacy with other people and other countries to negociate or trade in the real world. Thankfully you are also scrotebrained and that’s why you also don’t have any power.

                    • #112621
                      Anonymous
                      Guest

                      What the fuck are you even trying to say you stupid scrote?

                      • #112622
                        Anonymous
                        Guest

                        That saying the most racist guy in France would absolutely genocide the algerians is a stupid and useless statement.

                    • #112623
                      Anonymous
                      Guest
                • #112607
                  Anonymous
                  Guest

                  >Only arabs (and maybe mexicans) are capable of that kind of sadistic shit
                  the French did bonked up shirty to religious minorities within France during various parts of history.

        • #112543
          Anonymous
          Guest

          >it didn’t occur in a French colony.
          Algeria basically had segregation anon. Technically their colonies had some form of it

          • #112559
            Anonymous
            Guest

            Considered part of the arab world, we’re discussing nignogs in this thread
            Though it’s hilarous how Algeria, despite its shitty religion and culture, its massive inbreeding rate and its brutal decolonization war, still does better than the best parts of black africa.
            Genetics are truly something amazing.

            • #112562
              Anonymous
              Guest

              Algeria is part of Africa you scrotebrain. Ignorance is not a virtue.

              • #112571
                Anonymous
                Guest

                And Europe is part of Asia if we go by scrotebrained landmass distinction instead of cultural and racial distinction.
                You know very well what people mean when they say "Africa", and no they don’t mean Egypt or Algeria

        • #112609
          Anonymous
          Guest

          Read the loi cadre, or our attempts at shooting down the mali federation

        • #112617
          Anonymous
          Guest
          • #112625
            Anonymous
            Guest
      • #112552
        Anonymous
        Guest

        >What is the Mau Mau uprising
        >What is the Portuguese anti colonial wars

      • #112632
        Anonymous
        Guest

        The French are quite clearly the villains of history.

    • #112512
      Anonymous
      Guest

      Yeah leaving behind all that infrastructure sure was messy

    • #112516
      Anonymous
      Guest

      […]

      >Pre-colonial Africa was messy too
      Not any more or less than the rest of the world.

      • #112518
        Anonymous
        Guest

        Yes, much more
        In 1880, the rest of the world didn’t have wars between freaking villages nor did it have slaver raids…

        • #112519
          Anonymous
          Guest

          >In 1880, the rest of the world didn’t have wars between freaking villages nor did it have slaver raids…
          No they had massive scale wars between people anon. American Civil War?

        • #112582
          Anonymous
          Guest

          Blood feuds were still a thing in the Balkans, Italy, Scotland, and parts of North America

          • #112584
            Anonymous
            Guest

            Difference is that in these places villages weren’t nations

            • #112586
              Anonymous
              Guest

              Neither were they across Africa.

              • #112587
                Anonymous
                Guest

                Pre-colonial Africa had many village-nations (especially in Central Africa) and even the most developped "nations" tended to consist in a hundred of villages at most
                If it had had mapped borders, it would be even more of "a mess" than current Africa

                • #112606
                  Anonymous
                  Guest

                  Not really . Espcially since many of these entities had organized political structures, taxation structures, militarizes, hierarchies, castes, a ruling class or more. What is Aksum, Kongo Kingdom, Ethiopia, Nubia, Somali city–states, swahili city-states, Songhai, Mali. etc etc.

      • #112581
        Anonymous
        Guest

        >Cannibalism, living in mud huts with no sanitation and slavery weren’t that bad bro

      • #112639
        Anonymous
        Guest

        Uh what?

        Read some of the missionary accounts of 19th century Africa and keep in mind these guys were anti-slavery liberal/progressive types.

        >cannibalism
        >human sacrifice
        >"muti" beliefs where albino skins and dried baby fingers were used for magic
        >constant small scale violence

        Africa south of the Niger and north of the Limpopo was pretty hellish in pre-colonial era.

    • #112530
      Anonymous
      Guest

      Africans wanted colonialism to end, they didn’t want a period of gradually ceding power, of negotiations to redraw maps or anything, they wanted independence right away, so that’s what they got.

      Colonial borders have remained despite much war and instability since maintaining national governments and national armies in Africa is a source of stability. If a nation cedes territory it sets a precedent that violence and hostility gets results, which invites more. In theory anyway, regardless in practice they remain.

      Also isn’t it the left always saying "diversity is strength"? Tribal woke af nations would be a clusterfuck. They have to learn to live together to some extent.

      • #112532
        Anonymous
        Guest

        No other way was really possible because the colonial power would rush it if it was getting to costly for them. There’s also the fact that if the locals were to agree to independance at later date the European power could do so many things to fuck them over in one or any combo of the following like:

        >Refuse to do anything at all past the bare minimum until the date of serperation
        >set up the economy and political/economic structure that even spot independence Europeans woudl have death grip on the economy.
        >Strip everything that is not bolted to the floor.
        >Leave but have all the resources be firmly under the control of their companies
        >Infinitely delay it.
        >Set up the colony so that it’s political structure would be super frail and easy to exploit post independence

        there was nothing that could work asides from immediate independence since Africans didn’t have much pull asides from the threat for rebellion which was iffy since as shown in the Mau Mau Rebellion, Malaysian emergency, Portuguese Colonial War they could put them down brutally if they desired.

        • #112542
          Anonymous
          Guest

          What are you basing this on? Europe had universal democracy and had elected socialist governments vehemently opposed to colonialism. In the end most newly independent democracies would be taken over by despots. No doubt Europe would make errors or place their interests over Africa’s at points, because they are human, however it would be far from your "da jooz" tier conspiracy theories.

          It is obvious you are an extreme far-leftist who prefers incorrect opinions that give you good feels as opposed to facts, logic and correct opinions. Just admit you are wrong and stop being an idiot.

          • #112544
            Anonymous
            Guest

            >Europe had universal democracy and had elected socialist governments vehemently opposed to colonialism
            On paper. yo fail to realize that just because a government is ""lefty" or "eighty" doesn’t mean their polices all align with it. Especial when many left wing politicians back than were not all against colonization. Even today we have Euro states promoting polices abroad that completely clash with their beliefs.

            >your "da jooz" tier conspiracy theories.
            How is it a conspiracy when all those things I mentioned did occur in some way?

            • #112548
              Anonymous
              Guest

              >Refuse to do anything at all past the bare minimum until the date of seperation
              Many colonies were ruled on shoestring budgets so maintaining the status quo until the time was up is realistic. you saw this in Eritrea/Somalia under British military administration and German South West Africa under South Africa

              >set up the economy and political/economic structure that even post independence Europeans would have death grip on the economy.
              Was the primary goal for Rhodesia with how minority rule and voting operated in the state

              >Strip everything that is not bolted to the floor.
              France did this to Guinea by stripping the copper from several government buildings

              >Leave but have all the resources be firmly under the control of their companies
              Belgium’s plan in the Congo by Belgian mining companies supporting Katanga to split so they can get total access to their resources.

              >Set up the colony so that it’s political structure would be super frail and easy to exploit post independence
              Many colonies in Franco-Africa fit this. Especially since their elections are dependant on who has France’s backing and the reverse also apposite to France

      • #112619
        Anonymous
        Guest

        >Also isn’t it the left always saying "diversity is strength"
        No, that’s only for white nations.

        In African nations it’s "the colonists mixed together people from different tribes, that’s why African nations are violent".

      • #112637
        Anonymous
        Guest

        > diversity is a strength
        Random borders make countries less diverse than they ar should be.

    • #112599
      Anonymous
      Guest

      Anyways, don’t forget that "colonization" isn’t over. ~thirteen African countries have their economic policies ran from Paris. Africa is still very much under control of eurohomos and resources are still being extracted so Europe can afford to live with its degeneracy.

      • #112600
        Anonymous
        Guest

        Resources are being extracted by chinks and then SOLD (in exchange for MONEY, just like during slavery) to the Europeans.
        The only thing Europe is stealing to Africa right now is its inhabitants

    • #112624
      Anonymous
      Guest

      If only Britain had listened to Ian Smith…

    • #112628
      Anonymous
      Guest

      Why does this board become so freaking cucked when darkies come into the equation? I swear that what’s left of whites in 100 years will still be crying over how huwhite privilege is keeping the black man down.

    • #112636
      Anonymous
      Guest

      If they had enough control to do it properly they wouldn’t do it at all.

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