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>Japan and Russia has turned a feudal system into being global engineering pioneers in a few decades
what was their secret?
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Industrialization through direct state intervention.
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This, also why we are heading into the Chinese century. Competent authoritarianism completely outclasses capitalism
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> authoritarianism
If economic "freedom" exists only for select few, it isn’t actual freedom.If economic "authoritarianism" acts in the interests of general public and with its support, it isn’t exactly authoritarian.
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It’s illiberal when economic control and planning isn’t in the hands of the rich, and instead planned by a identifiable, nameable bureaucracy.
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>This, also why we are heading into the Chinese century. Competent authoritarianism completely outclasses capitalism
Who would win, competent authoritarianism or one flappy boi? The answer may surprise you!
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The west got hit way more by covid than China what are you smoking
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Yes, yes. China numbah wun. It’s economic miracle most certainly isn’t having any massive seizures right now.
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>what was their secret?
The secret of soviet mental gymnastics when they pretend that Russia wasn’t industrializing before them-
At a much slower pace than under the Soviets.
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and without millions of dead, how horrible
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Millions more would die if commies didn’t take the actions they took
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>Not intentionally starving their population would have killed millions more
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Under french terms
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>foreign investments is… le bad
this is economic genius of communism
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Cope
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>Cope
I can’t even imagine how you do
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>incoming cope
In reality OP, centralized economies have their uses and contrary to belief they can be more efficient and powerful than the free market. It just relies on the state having a plan and will to do something other than embezzle and fuck around. -
Japan and Russia were modernized through western aid and guidance. They didn’t do it alone.
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Autism. Lots and lots… oceans of autism.
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That Meiji restoration was a hell of thing. Pretty rare for the leadership of a society realize that they have to completely alter the status quo in their society and completely restructure the social and economic order.
I still don’t know how or why exactly they achieved this, rather than be satisfied as puppet kings like what happened in India.-
Themselves were already modernizing in their own domains, they just put the entire country in overdrive
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Because they got rid of everyone that had something to lose from modernization. It turned around and bit them in the ass a few decades later.
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>Pretty rare for the leadership of a society realize that they have to completely alter the status quo in their society and completely restructure the social and economic order.
Except that they succeeded in part because they didn’t have to. Their social and political structure were very extremely favorable for nation-building and quite similar to Europe in many ways. High literacy (afaik similar to contemporary Prussia), very high urbanization, largely homogeneous population confined to a small area (+insular) rather than a vast empire, a homogeneous language and writing, homogeneous customs, established native dynasty, etc. They even had their own budding form of nationalism in the Edo period since the early 1700s, distinguishing what’s "Japanese" from what were considered alien influences.
They imported lots of things from the West, but they never had to "radically alter", but radically modify and tinker their pre-existing society here and there.
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>Japan and Russia has turned a feudal system into being global engineering pioneers in a few decades
because it was feudal system where regional rulers struggled against each other.
look at other major civilizations like Persia and China, only a few regional chiefs were allowed to bring about innovations and they were chronically bribed by the already established old systems to block everything new in those highly bureaucratic empires. -
Imperialism. Russia sucked the other soviet Republics dry. Japan created their own comercial empire with their conquered subjects.
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Proofs?
Russia subsidizes most of the soviet republics
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grain exports during the 1920s y 1930s
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holodomor never happened
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Yes it freaking did. Collectivization-induced famines and persecution of kulaks was a thing. It probably wasn’t an intentional ethnic genocide but it was an atrocity nonetheless.
I’m freaking sick of tankies tbh. It’s like they see neo-nazis, confederate lost causers, and holocaust deniers and feel the only way to realistically combat them is to be as stupid and insufferable as them.
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same thing happen in UK and Ireland
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>And you are lynching Negroes
Why do commies think that atrocities committed by other people justify their crimes?-
were you see justification?
projecting much?
you anglogarden gnomes are really fragile
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lol no
Russia subsidized most of Soviet republics
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even prior to the revolution, the empire was industrializing on a massive rate, since the goverment realized how assbonked they will become if a big war involving them happened, WW1 happened only like 3 decades after they that process, the soviets are also aware that they need to modernize if they wanted to hold off the west
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>are you happy with the current system
>yes
>off to the gulag you go
>are you happy with the current system
>no
>will you trust me to change it
>no
>off to the gulag you go
>are you happy in the current system
>no
>will you trust me to change it
>yes
>welcome aboard, here’s your party pin
It’s amazing what you can do when everyone is on the same page, it just takes a shitload of purges.-
>It’s amazing what you can do when everyone is on the same page
indeed, that’s where the ccp strengh lies today, the fact they can have total political will in a decision unlike the US where democrats and republicans are constantly fighting-
I agree, but sometimes there is a place for gridlock and slow changes. Pretty much up until 2001, the US was a veritable utopia and an uncontested, optimistic superpower. A state like that doesn’t need revolutionaries enforcing total ideological agreement, it needs a variety of viewpoints which all generally agree on their objectives that can motivate incremental change. My issue with modern democracies is a complete failure to play to their strengths, attempts at incremental change is met with ideological screeching, everyone wants to LARP as a revolutionary, etc.
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>there is a place for gridlock and slow changes.
indeed I should add that the US two party system isn’t a mistake or a sign that something is not working but the opposite, the two party system basically slows the goverment down so as to make it as stable as possible and make the status quo as long lasting as it can be, however if the US ever had to make quick life or death decisions (like now) its rigid goverment would be a detrement (like now) however the US has way too much going for it so it will not turn into a shit hole ever-
>the US has way too much going for it so it will not turn into a shit hole ever
At this point I am hesitating. The american elite has become very incompetent because of their incredibly long favorable position. At this point you see some cracks happening. You see policy making woke af on what the chinese are doing. Its funny to think, but the american elite is more and more starting to look at how the chinese are regulating their economy and currency because they simply don’t know any better. You can see this for example in the extreme height of the money supply, and in the increased interest in investment in real estate to prevent a slow down of the economy. A western nation with hundreds of years of fast progress, revolutions, and inventions of new ideas now has to look at the copycat asian country to understand how to regulate its economy. Its quiet sad how far the west has fallen. -
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>however the US has way too much going for it so it will not turn into a shit hole ever
THIS
We’ll be fine, all the doomsayers are anxious worrywarts-
I genuinely doubt it, inertia has been carrying the nation for a long time now. The US has been losing abroad consistently, and the top narrative right now is to blame the civilian government. Army officials gladly lied to Trump about troop counts in Syria, and the US is on the verge of absolute crisis even worse than the past 2 years. I have a healthy paranoia that some General Ripper style officer is tucked away in some foreign engagement waiting for the perfect opportunity for a Mukden Incident situation to start a rapid unraveling. War is too important for the politicians is already a common view in the US at this point.
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>where democrats and republicans are constantly fighting
Yeah, on whether to invade another one of Israel’s enemies lol.-
well the fighting is mostly empty or rather both parties fight change
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> they somehow sent people to gulag for not supporting power grab before executing power grab
This is not how it works, anon.-
I used gulag as an idiom, in Russia it was handled through a civil war where Bolsheviks aligned themselves with the Soviets and won over their support. A lot of the heavy lifting had already been handled by the Provisional Government before them.
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God-emperors
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>Russia
>global engineering pioneers in a few decades
The hell are you smoking? USSR didn’t pioneer shit except worlds worst nuclear meltdown -
Japan: Imperialist plunder.
Soviet Russia: Bolshevism and proletarian effort.-
>Japan: Imperialist plunder.
>Soviet Russia: Imperialist plunder.-
Soviet Russia was built on the destruction of the imperialist plunderers, both the domestic white reactionaries and the foreign entente parasites who invaded and built the cordon sanitaire to contain the USSR and create a wall of lies to smear it.
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UUSR at first prostituted it’s people like slaves to western capitalists, as well as working with swedish bankers for capital during and after the way. Only later in the later 20s and early 30s they began liquidating kulaks
The russians plundered the ukrainian territory, practically starving the locals, as well as other regions such as the Volga. Later they plundered the baltics and poland, and afterwards siphoned off the entirety of the eastern block for resources. USSR was an exploitative system where the russians exploited their satellite nations.-
They were never slaves to western capitalists lol, they tried to invade and got their heads kicked in, they white guard lackeys exterminated by the Cheka and had to retreat. Later the Soviet government made some deals where specialists under tight supervision were brought in and then sent home once enough workers had been trained. Volga is literally part of Russia so that complaint is moot, the famine affected Russia, Kazakhstan and Ukraine. The USSR devoted a great deal of resources to bringing up the living standards of the non-Russian republics. In fact this was one of the main driving points of bourgeois Russian nationalism as represented by the likes of Yeltsin and Yakovlev, that they were helping the filthy Kazakhs and Armenians when they could be enriching themselves. Whining fascist parasites from Estonia crying about Russian Bolsheviks are the mirror image of pencil-necked Russian nationalists crying about being the first victims of communist occupation.
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>what were concessions to western companies under the government of Lenin
Literally north-korra tier whoring out your laborers to capitalists-
A small section of the economy that lasted a few years before being taken over by the GOSPLAN?
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>they tried to invade and got their heads kicked in
I’m pretty sure the Western interventions all withdrew of their own accord, mostly bad popular opinion
Sure they were happy to give tanks and planes to Denikin or to guard a few railroad lines but even in Arkhangelsk the Entente was never driven into the sea by force
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They were uplifted by higher life forms.
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>Japan and Russia
Only Japan Russia is still a third world shithole
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They go lucky with having very competent authoritarian governments. Thats a rare blessing and ever rare to use it.
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1900’s Russia wasn’t feudal.
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Russian "engineering" is dogshit.
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>Japan
The Meiji Restoration, leaving aside its name, was a revolution (albeit an incredibly ironic one given many of its lower level adherents, and even many of its high level supporters, were hardly expecting the whole feudal system to be junked) whose elite policy makers believed that only through a political, economic, and cultural transformation could they hope to stave off becoming like China, something that Perry’s black ships made a very real possibility. To that end they recognized that the Tokugawa Period social structure was impossible to keep if they wanted to do so, and that’s leaving aside how creaky it had gotten.
TLDR the nature of the Meiji Restoration gave the new rulers the ability to essentially wipe the societal slate and in many ways rebuild from the ground up
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