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Is death just a new beginning or is it the final act forever?
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Neither.
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actually it’s both
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nothing was ever truly born, nothing ever truly dies.
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Neither. For many it’s just the next level.
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Then what’s this talk about most not making it past the filter/harvest? Is that bullshit? I want to believe what you’re saying because I’ve had intense personal experiences that say it is so
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Honestly it probably whatever you want it to be, if you want to reincarnate or go to a heavenly afterlife, then that’s probably possible. If you spend all your life watching Richard Dawkins tell you nothing will happen and nothing matters then nothing will become of you. That’s just my theory.
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Seems plausible
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When you die, that’s it. This is the reality but it’s hard to come in terms with this.
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How are you so sure
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Because the concept of afterlife we envision is a stictly human one. We excharge money and other stuff in our life so we think even our end works the same way. Human beings are goal oriented and seek a payoff/reward in everything. Just coming to exist and then simply die seems illogical to us but nothing suggests it’s actually the case. Even atheists who support that death is the end frame it around a bunch of "you don’t matter" nihilistic rhetoric or similar because they’re in my view defeated instead of awaken to the realiity.
Can you really say that the relationship you had with that girl for a year doesn’t matter because it ended? Many people indeed will think that something like this is ultimetely irrelevant due to going nowhere according to the reward/development rationale but they downplay the feelings they had during a particular timeframe. How would you really feel if there was a glorious afterlife when this short life is done? This though makes me feel like my life here is being understimated somehow or used as a tool. It’s obvious that even hypothetically afterlife doesn’t seem attractive to everyone.
Life happens and then ends. But are temporary things really as worthless as we think? The way I see it ideology has poisoned us so we struggle to act spotaneously without looking for ultimate rewards in everything we do. We undestimate our moments just to serve ambiguous agendas.You will cease living one day so your current wish will come true. That’s one wish fullfilled already, you can collect more as long as you’re here.
We see people die and then we stop experiencing life together with them. Where’s your proof that they still exist?
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>We see people die and then we stop experiencing life together with them. Where’s your proof that they still exist?
no, no one ever sees any people die at all, what you see are bodies ceasing to function
bodies are not people>Yes and for those remaining that ceasing of function has meaning because something got taken from their lifes.
this has nothing to do with what we’re talking about, which is death
when you try to call this "death", you might as well say that your clothes "die" when you throw them away
total nonsense
>Death exists for you no matter if you convince yourself
wrong
like I’ve made clear by now, there is no such thing as death
death does not exist, not for me, not for you, not for anyone
>someone who saw quite a few people die
you have not seen anyone die
what you have seen are bodies ceasing to function
>If you die
once more, you don’t die
no one dies
there is no such thing as death-
>bodies are not people
Proof?-
a body is something you experience
anything you experience is not you
this is something well understood by a wide variety of metaphysical traditions, such as Buddhism, in which they refer to these as the aggregates
a body is no more a person than a bunch of clothes on a body are a person-
>well understood by a wide variety of metaphysical traditions, such as Buddhism
Buddhism is an opinion just like me thinking strawberry is better than banana. Buddhism and other traditions understand nothing, they simply make assertions they would like to be true. In reality we see people die and buried. Then we don’t interact with them or the rotting body anymore. So to come back to the essentials, why is a temporary exxistance and then nothingness a bad thing? Have you even considered that it could be nothing wrong with it and there’s no need for wishful assertions? We see people go everyday, why is the very thing you see with your own eyes a lie but you believe all these traditions?-
>Buddhism is an opinion just like me thinking strawberry is better than banana.
you couldn’t be more wrong
Buddhism, as with certain other metaphysical tradition, operate exclusively on metaphysical facts of reality that anyone can ascertain through the use of reason
there’s literally zero belief involved at all, nor opinion
>Buddhism and other traditions understand nothing, they simply make assertions they would like to be true.
again, you couldn’t be more wrong
Buddhism and certain other traditions exclusively rely on assertions about reality which are metaphysical truths that anyone can verify on their own by exercising their own capacity for reason
>In reality we see people die and buried.
wrong
what you see is bodies ceasing to function and getting buried, just like clothes wearing out and being thrown into the garbage
>Then we don’t interact with them or the rotting body anymore.
wrong
you don’t interact with that specific body, but you still interact with them
they are the person, not the body
>So to come back to the essentials, why is a temporary exxistance and then nothingness a bad thing?
it’s not "bad", it’s simply false, existence is not temporary, and there’s no such thing as death, even if you try to rebrand it as "nothingness"
>Have you even considered that it could be nothing wrong with it and there’s no need for wishful assertions?
there’s nothing "wishful" about anything I’m saying, what I’m presenting are the facts, anyone can verify them on their own through the use of reason
>We see people go everyday, why is the very thing you see with your own eyes a lie but you believe all these traditions?
wrong
you see bodies ceasing to function, just like clothes wearing out
you are setting up a straw man when you accuse me of calling that a lie, because you’re the one wrongfully conflating a body ceasing to function with the death of a person
this is like saying that you die when you take off your clothes at night, or throw out a worn set-
Prove that a person isn’t the body you see dying then. You just say that I’m wrong and that’s because of reason but you fail to demostrate it again and again then call my simple questions strawman? I have seen people around me go and then never coming back. You insist that their soul or something still exists but haven’t proven it. I’m waiting, "reason" means nothing. Thinks exist or don’t exist and rhetoric doesn’t change that we die and nobody sees us again.
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>Prove that a person isn’t the body you see dying then.
I already explained that
let me quote myself verbatim:
>a body is something you experience
>anything you experience is not you
>this is something well understood by a wide variety of metaphysical traditions, such as Buddhism, in which they refer to these as the aggregates
>a body is no more a person than a bunch of clothes on a body are a person
anything you experience is not you
>You just say that I’m wrong and that’s because of reason but you fail to demostrate it again and again
no, I say that you’re wrong and explain exactly why, you are simply either not reading it or not taking the time to understand it
>I have seen people around me go and then never coming back.
wrong
you have seen bodies ceasing to function
>You insist that their soul or something still exists but haven’t proven it.
no, not "their soul", but they themselves
thinking about "their soul" objectifies what you call a "soul" into the same thing as a body
we’re talking about they themselves, not anything that is theirs
>I’m waiting, "reason" means nothing.
reason has a clear meaning, so that’s a completely nonsensical statement
it is through reason alone that metaphysical facts about reality can be ascertained
>Thinks exist or don’t exist and rhetoric doesn’t change that we die and nobody sees us again.
again, wrong
there is no such thing as death, no one ever dies -
>>anything you experience is not you
prove it? -
Your a fool and probably underage
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Anon, voiding your life because you believe there’s nothing after you die and voiding your life because you believe death doesn’t exist is but the semantics the same because it leads to the same results. No matter how insignificant you deem this set of clothes, there are people who will never see it again. This has meaning because some sets you will only see or wear in this life. But I honestly hope it will still take sometime until you have to agree.
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>Anon, voiding your life because you believe there’s nothing after you die and voiding your life because you believe death doesn’t exist is but the semantics the same because it leads to the same results.
you literally couldn’t be more wrong
what you’re saying is literally the diametric opposite of the truth
anyone who understands that death doesn’t exist do the exact opposite of people who irrationally believe in the idea of death
also, the fact that death doesn’t exist isn’t a belief, it’s a metaphysical fact of reality that anyone can easily ascertain through the use of reason
>No matter how insignificant you deem this set of clothes, there are people who will never see it again.
throughout eternity, you can recreate any set of clothes and any body you like as many times as you wish
in fact, owing to the fractal nature of reality, you will continuously improve upon earlier designs and only end up with better and better every single time, so clinging to anything is just another symptom of the irrational belief in death, which doesn’t exist
>This has meaning because some sets you will only see or wear in this life.
you still don’t understand
there’s no such thing as "this life"
there is only life-
>it’s a metaphysical fact of reality that anyone can easily ascertain through the use of reason
Demostrate it then
>throughout eternity, you can recreate any set of clothes and any body you like as many times as you wish
I don’t want to. I’m me and I will die as myself. How about that? I won’t dress as a black man or a chinese woman. I have never seen anyone chaging bodies as well.-
>Demostrate it then
I’ve already done so repeatedly
>I don’t want to.
you are free to do whatever you want
>I’m me and I will die as myself. How about that?
you will never die
there is no such thing as death
>I won’t dress as a black man or a chinese woman.
that’s entirely your choice
>I have never seen anyone chaging bodies as well.
you see bodies ceasing to function and new bodies coming into existence all the time-
>you see bodies ceasing to function and new bodies coming into existence all the time
Yes they are called new people being born. You insist that they’re reincarnated but don’t offer proof of this. It’s an empty assertion and an insult our life itself to claim that each individual creature born isn’t unique and is something recycled with a change in appearence. We observe the exact opposite everyday so it sounds like you’re a liar and very evil to me personally. I don’t like dismissive people who make big claims with no proof. I have never seen a person living a body for another.-
I think you misunderstood him, he assumes that life never ends and by sheer coindidence can arrive at the same point again by the sheer coincidence that’s 100% in face of eternity. Thus he thinks he will always get a redo. But that in the end is the same than thinking nothing matters since is finally awaits nothing and in my opinion leads to the same. But since he’s Buddhist or claims to be he probably wants the Long road to nirvana.
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it’s rather you who misunderstands me
there’s nothing coincidental about anything
what I’m saying is that just like you can buy or make yourself a new pear of jeans similar to old ones, you can continuously experience over and over again anything you liked from the past until you feel like moving on
with a certain amount of experience, people tend to revel in the infinite novelty available in the infinite fractal of reality, and thus stop clinging to old experiences
>But since he’s Buddhist
you have poor reading comprehension, because I never said I was Buddhist at all
I said that Buddhism, as well as other metaphysical traditions, understand that "you" doesn’t refer to anything you experience, including your body or your mental formations -
>a new pear of jeans
I obviously meant to write "pair of jeans", but not going to delete and repost again>can live as different "people"
wrong
that’s not what I’m saying at all
you are still conflating "person" with "body"
you don’t "live as different people", you are the same person, you’re simply sloughing off the worn-out body like an old robe, and putting on a new body
you are still the same person
>He can frame it many ways but in the end it’s all empty rhetoric for people who hate life.
literally the diametric opposite of the truth
anyone who understands that there only is life, and that there’s no such thing as death, come to love life
only when you make this realization do you employ life to its fullest potential -
So should I just kill myself because I’m not having a good time anymore and then I can just come back young again?
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>So should I just kill myself because I’m not having a good time anymore and then I can just come back young again?
no offense, but you seem to be quite slow on the uptake
there’s no such thing as death
you can’t have a nice day
you can get rid of your body if you want, but there are better ways of doing that than destroying it or forcing its biological functions to cease, such as pic relatedThe more you post the worse it makes you look. You keep saying that your opinion is objective without any evidence to offer. Stay brainwashed I guess, it seems like you don’t even know what "proof" means. Your assertions are just brainfarts like all opinions who fail to be demostrated. You will cease moving and breathing just like every other person and that scares.
it’s amusing that you are attempting to cling to the irrational belief in death, and project your notions of evil and delusion associated with that onto me
>without any evidence to offer
I’ve explained over and over again the exact reasoning behind the metaphysical truths I’m pointing out, you and anyone else can easily verify them yourselves through the use of reason
>You will cease moving and breathing just like every other person and that scares.
what you’re talking about are things that bodies do, not things that people do
it’s as absurd as saying "you will stop unzipping" as if you were a pair of pants
amusing, but ultimately nonsensical>Than don’t argument with it to give your train of thought a bit more weight.
learn to read
what I said was that Buddhism, as well as many other traditions, understand a specific fact
>We both made our point and neither seems to take it
I’m explaining the truth, you are clinging to a falsehood, attempting to equate the two is a sign of ignorance on your part>Person and body are the same thing.
you couldn’t be more wrong
that’s like saying a person and the clothes they are wearing is the same thing, absolutely ridiculous
>You have failed to prove that you’re not your body.
I have proven it over and over again
you have failed to properly take the time to understand it -
Maybe you should get a tea. Go outside and reread that post.
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>Maybe you should get a tea.
I’m good, thanks
>Go outside and reread that post.
there’s no need to reread it for me at all, I’m intimately familiar with everything I writethat’s not what I said either, learn to read
I was pointing out what bodies and clothes have in common: they are both things a person wears
in that sense, bodies are analogous to clothes -
The point is to indefinitely know the instance of birth & death as to finance integrity of dual expansion
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You don’t wear your body. You are your body that’s why if you get damaged eyes you lose your vision. I know how to read well, bodies aren’t analogous to clothes at all. That’s something scrotebrained you made up. No person has been observed getting rid of one body and wearing other. Reincarnation exists as much as the christian heaven. It’s not a real thing, it’s a shitpost powerful people made up originally to get the oppressed masses off their back. And clueless people like you who think they have knowledge beyond others fall for the bait still.
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If one is their body regardless of form then we’re a reflection of a body indefinitely, where the beginning and end of your body doesn’t have a middle. "You are your body" needs gravity. Your body changes like an outfit
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Bodies aren’t clothes. I think you might be insane.
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What is that pic? DMT?
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>you are still conflating "person" with "body"
Person and body are the same thing. You have failed to prove that you’re not your body.
>you don’t "live as different people", you are the same person, you’re simply sloughing off the worn-out body like an old robe, and putting on a new body
you are still the same person
Empty rhetoric which means nothing at all. You should be a lawyer. -
"Long, Long ago, before death was invented people weren’t viewed as individuals as you would understand it. They were collections of experiences arranged in a particular order that changed like the waves in the ocean. Time would pass and another memory would fall away to make room for another, forever.
A time later I came upon a man who worked on a great invention, he called it death. His excitement and determination was palpable, and his eternity was spent on this creation. Before long a chair of sorts sat in the center of his workshop and from it came belts and wires and many exotic gadgets. With great joy he proclaimed that this device was capable of inflicting death on a person, so excited in fact that he could not help but strap himself in and be the first to experience death. There was a bright light and all was still. when i waved my hand in front of his face I suddenly understood what death was…
…He watched my hand pass in front of his face with no reaction, and after it had passed him by he was perfectly content with staring at the grey wall next. And on the day when the wall decayed and collapsed he still felt nothing, and when people pointed and made remarks about his body sitting there he still had no reaction, and when the world became alien to him he felt nothing. There was not an action anyone could do, no pain they could inflict upon him that could stir even a twitch, he was eternally content, perpetually okay, completely satisfied with all that was around him. Slowly the interest in this man faded and cities were built around him, then over him, and them more over them, and slowly he became a component of the world, merely a piece of stone in function, a part of the earth and nothing more.
Death is real, and you’ll learn to accept it.
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>Death is real
Doesn’t really say what death is though, only where it’s not death huh -
>Death is real, and you’ll learn to accept it.
again, there is no such thing as death, and that’s a metaphysical fact of reality that’s very easy to ascertain, something I’ve explained over and over throughout this thread>You don’t wear your body.
yes, that’s precisely what you do
you wear your mind too, I bet someone like you is going to have an even harder time understanding that
>You are your body
that’s hilarious
>if you get damaged eyes you lose your vision
and if you crack your glasses, you won’t see clearly
the eyes are instruments you are seeing through
>I know how to read well
evidently not
>bodies aren’t analogous to clothes at all
yes, they are precisely analogous in the sense that both are things you wear
>No person has been observed getting rid of one body and wearing other.
this has been observed countless times>What is that pic? DMT?
no, that is Padmasambhava dissolving his body into light, more specifically what’s known as the rainbow body of great transference, but mere rainbow bodies, or even light bodies, are similar phenomena -
>you wear your mind too, I bet someone like you is going to have an even harder time understanding that
You’re right. I don’t understand delusional scrotebrains who claim things completely opposite to what we observe in reality.
>this has been observed countless times
Heaven and hell also been observed countless times as well then. Reptilians too. -
>You’re right. I don’t understand delusional scrotebrains who claim things completely opposite to what we observe in reality.
what I’m saying is precisely what we observe in reality
we see thoughts come and go, yet we remain
we see our body come and go, yet we remain
we see our clothes come and go, yet we remainthis anon seems to be getting it
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>Padmasambhava dissolving his body into light
So should I go become a yogi in the himalayas? -
if you feel like it, sure
if you’re doing it in order to get out of your current body, then what you are doing is essentially externalizing that knowledge into that specific location, so that you can go there and "discover" and "be taught" it
however, chances are that the reason you want to do so in the first place has more to do with clinging to a false ego-construct, so that when you relinquish this construct and set out on your journey, you would already be liberated -
I think I’d be doing it more because I don’t wanna work a shitty capitalism job just to barely survive, and gaining cool esoteric powers or something with a like-minded group sounds way cooler
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>I think I’d be doing it more because I don’t wanna work a shitty capitalism job just to barely survive
like I said, a false ego-construct
this ties in with that that anon said earlier, when someone irrationally believes in death, which doesn’t exist, they simultaneously start doing things in order to "survive", because they think the alternative is death
in reality, there is no such thing as death, and you don’t need to do anything to survive, and you being called to adventure is that truth emerging from the core of your being to dispel your temporary bout of ignorance
enjoy your adventures, my fellow anon -
Huh. Well maybe it’s the pain of experiencing cold, going hungry, or getting beat up by homeless people when I’m sleeping that worries me. But thanks for the well wishes anon
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I read this knowledge from different sources before, but keep getting sucked back into the dream, but you saying it bluntly over and over reminded me.
life feels so light when its not take literally, thanks anon. -
You’re under the illusion that death is purely a physical experience. it’s not.
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>You’re under the illusion that death is purely a physical experience.
someone clearly isn’t reading what I’m writing
there is no such thing as death
it’s not an experience of any kind, physical or otherwise, because it doesn’t exist -
I read it, and i’m disagreeing with it outright. that’s the point. "Not an experience" and "lack of experience" are two different things. you don’t need to"not exist" you just need to not experience.
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"disagreeing" with the facts of reality is just to be wrong
again, there is no such thing as "not experiencing", because experience is the only thing there is -
if experience is all that exists then all i’m disagreeing with is your experience which is subjective, which means just because you haven’t experienced a lack of experience. If eternity exists and everything happens eventually then that means eventually you’ll experience a lack of experience, since you haven’t experienced it I’d bet you’re lacking an experience already.
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if experience is all that exists then all i’m disagreeing with is your experience which is subjective, which means that just because you haven’t experienced a lack of experience doesn’t mean a lack of experience doesn’t exist as an experience, it just means you haven’t experienced it yet. If eternity exists and everything happens eventually then that means eventually you’ll experience a lack of experience, since you haven’t experienced it I’d bet you’re lacking an experience already.
never underestimate my ability to fuck up text when I’m trying to be serious.
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>If eternity exists and everything happens eventually then that means eventually you’ll experience a lack of experience, since you haven’t experienced it I’d bet you’re lacking an experience already.
here you are making several fundamental mistakes in your attempt at reasoning
first of all, eternity does not imply everything happening eventually, because reality is fractal, and there is infinite novelty
think about it like the well-known transcendental mathematical numbers pi or e, which continue on indefinitely, never repeating any specific pattern, but with infinite variety (people erroneously think that every single pattern must be in there somewhere, but that’s not the case at all, there’s simply infinite novelty)
secondly, it’s by definition not possible to have an experience of experiencing nothing, because that’s not an experience
again, there is only experience, there is nothing else, and there is no such thing as death -
Death is pretty novel to someone who hasn’t experienced death. You’re comparing death to a pattern in repeating number patterns, I’m not. I’m comparing it to the numbers. If there is an infinite variety of experiences then there are experiences you haven’t experienced. Novel just means new and original, but that doesn’t seem to be what you mean. what do you really mean when you say novel? or was new/original what you meant?
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>Death is pretty novel to someone who hasn’t experienced death.
there is no such thing as death
you seem to be quite slow on the uptake
there is no such thing as "experiencing death", because there is no such thing as death
>You’re comparing death to a pattern in repeating number patterns, I’m not.
no, I’m comparing life to that, not death
time to improve your reading comprehension, it seems
it was an analogy, because you erroneously said:
>If eternity exists and everything happens eventually
this is completely wrong, because there is infinite novelty due to the fractal nature of reality
in other words, everything will not happen eventually even though there only is life, because there is infinite novelty
>If there is an infinite variety of experiences then there are experiences you haven’t experienced.
that’s correct
there are indeed an infinite variety of experiences, including an infinite variety of experiences you have not experienced
>Novel just means new and original, but that doesn’t seem to be what you mean. what do you really mean when you say novel? or was new/original what you meant?
that’s exactly what I mean
the point is that death is not an experience it’s possible to have, because there is no such thing
death is not a "novel experience", it’s not an experience at all, it doesn’t exist -
Life exists in it’s contrasting nature with death the same way that the concept of "up" needs "down", life without death isn’t life, it’s an assortment of semi-related snapshots of places and things arranged randomly because you would have no context in which to view them. If life exists without death then that means there’s just as much in your past as there is in your future, since you can agree that there are infinite experiences than lie in your future and since death would be the end of experience, then where are all the infinite experiences in your past? do you remember every exact minute detail of the room you were in exactly, saaaaay…. three years, twenty-five minutes and seven seconds into life? how about before you were born? is there an infinite regress of memories extending all the way back to infinity? Because exact moment where the earliest memory you have was formed is the exact moment that "you" were born, and the moments lost to you are your previous life because if experience is all that is real and you are what you experience then "you" stopped existing in the past when you stopped experiencing it, but that’s not death. death is that moment of forgetfulness creeping closer and closer to you relative to your memories, slowly moving closer to the present moment that you’re experiencing. death is when it gets there, and death is real and you can verify this by realizing there are things you don’t remember from your past.
simplified, death is you forgetting faster than you can remember^
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>death is you forgetting faster than you can remember^
People suffering from amnesia are still alive. -
>Life exists in it’s contrasting nature with death the same way that the concept of "up" needs "down"
wrong
this is the type of nonsense I’m explaining has zero basis in reality
there is only life
there is no such thing as death
there is no contrast there at all
that’s dualist nonsense
>life without death isn’t life
wrong
there is only life, there is no such thing as death
>things arranged randomly
nothing is arranged randomly at all, there is no such thing as randomness, just like there’s no such thing as death
>do you remember every exact minute detail of the room you were in exactly, saaaaay…. three years, twenty-five minutes and seven seconds into life? how about before you were born?
a lack of memory has nothing to do with death
as this anon says, you are still alive even if you forget everything frequently:in fact, holding on to the past is a form of clinging, when you realize that there is no such thing as death, it’s far better to let go of the past and live in the present
>death is that moment of forgetfulness creeping closer and closer to you relative to your memories
no, again, there is no such thing as death
letting go of the past is not death
in fact, you live in eternity, "the past" itself is just a concept that arises when you cling to memories, in reality there’s no such thing as past or future, there’s just the present, which is what life is
>death is when it gets there
again, false
>death is real
wrong, there is no such thing as death
>you can verify this by realizing there are things you don’t remember from your past
hilariously wrong, and not even remotely a valid logical conclusion, making this statement makes it clear you don’t understand how reason works
to reiterate, "the past" is just a concept that arises inside the present, which is the only thing that’s real
it’s not something that led up to this moment like a computation, but something that drifts off from the present like the wake from a ship, or an echo -
You make decisions from your past all the time, you clearly remember how to use a computer and do math, are those functions of the present and only the present? How about driving? You talk as if the past holds you back, you use the word "cling" like it’s some kind of parasite. The past is a step-stool to eternity, the past is accumulated knowledge, not a fish hook in your back. saying I’m spouting dualist nonsense and denying what i’m saying doesn’t make you right. "false wrong, false" fine. What is life to you then? How would you define it?
Literally forgetting faster than you are remembering would be something more akin to brain death, alzheimer’s, or rabies, things that destroy your brain. If you can’t even remember that you are you then… are you really you? are you your experiences?
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>You make decisions from your past all the time
wrong
only fools believe this
fact is that you always make decisions in the present moment
in fact, the very notion of making decisions from your past is an oxymoron, it’s self-contradictory and has zero basis in reality
>You talk as if the past holds you back, you use the word "cling" like it’s some kind of parasite.
yes, clinging to the notion of "the past" literally "holds you back", that’s precisely what it does
it has nothing to do with any parasite, what an incredibly misplaced description on your part
>The past is a step-stool to eternity, the past is accumulated knowledge, not a fish hook in your back.
this is the fundamental mistake you and others who cling to the past make, thinking that the past somehow leads up to the present
that’s false
everything is happening right now, always has, always will
>saying I’m spouting dualist nonsense and denying what i’m saying doesn’t make you right
what an incredibly vapid straw man, as if I’m saying that I’m right because I’m "denying" what you are saying
what I’m doing is pointing out that you are completely wrong and explaining in great detail why that is, and what’s right
again, it’s dualist nonsense to think that death is necessary for life, just as moronic as thinking darkness is necessary for light
there is just life, there is no death, there is no contrast or duality there
>What is life to you then? How would you define it?
life is all there is, it’s what exists, call it by myriad names if you will, reality, experience, existence, being, the present, the universe, consciousness, mind, but no matter what you call it, it is what is
ultimately you cannot capture what it is in a definition, any more than you can truly explain to someone what the Moon is by giving them a bunch of words, you can only point to the experiential truth of reality -
…and the decisions you make in the present moment are made available to you from the ones you made in your past. You’re here talking to me because at some point before now you made the decision to acquire some form of technology that enabled you to connect to the internet you didn’t make that choice just now, at absolute minimum it began when you started commenting on this thread. I’m sorry, but that doesn’t sound like a straw man to me, what does, however, is calling people things like "fool" and "moronic" and attacking their character to distort their credibility is a straw man. You telling me a point is oxymoronic is irrelevant when that’s what we’re debating. Every time you say something like "That’s hilariously wrong" and "that holds no basis in reality" you aren’t adding anything to the discussion. You’re just adding sugar to the argument and that meaningless fluff has no factual impact on what you say.
So lastly then, Why bother arguing what "it" is if you can’t define it? You say I can’t use words to show someone the moon, but I disagree. I can use words to invent math, math to create machines, and machines to create computers. I can then use computers to render a scale depiction of the moon which can model accurately what the moon is to someone who has never seen it before. Why? Because words are one of the building blocks of the past that we stand on. If YOU can’t put it to words that’s YOUR fault, not mine, and if you really believed that then you wouldn’t be here trying to tell me I’m wrong because you can’t seriously expect me to just take your word for it, right? You’re better than that, surely.
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>Doesn’t know what a metaphor is
sis you look like a cringy autist when you ask for “proof” for something that isn’t ta tangible by nature. Greek philosophers already had this discussion thousands of years ago and came to the conclusion that one would be a fool to 100% belive there is nothing (no god) or that there one (afterlife) but can only speculate through reason. Instead of asking for proof like a 13y autist for something thats can not be scientifically tested (like dark matter) use reason to cone to a conclusion. Other anon you where arguing is obviously smarter than you, not fooling anyone but yourself -
many Greek philosophers correctly understood that there was no such thing as death, and explained it to others
that’s not a belief, but a fact of reality, it has nothing to do with speculation
reason is not an instrument of speculation at all, reason is an instrument of ascertaining metaphysical truth
asking for proof is just fine, you can easily prove metaphysical truths through reason, it’s in fact the only way to do so, science only deals with empiricism
you can in fact never arrive at a single metaphysical fact through science -
>the decisions you make in the present moment are made available to you from the ones you made in your past
wrong, literally the diametric opposite of the truth
the present is not a result of the past, the present is all there is, the past is just an echo of the present in the present
>is a straw man
that’s not at all what a straw man is
you should not use terms you don’t understand
>Why bother arguing what "it" is if you can’t define it?
I’m not arguing anything, I’m explaining the facts to someone who clearly is misguided
also, you’re the one who asked what life is
it’s obviously not possible to define life, because all definitions themselves take place in life
like I said, no matter how many words you use, you can’t make someone realize what something is without showing them what those words refer to in reality, and life refers to the totality of being, so no matter how much you try to define it, you can understand what it is other than through experiencing is
most people understand what the terms life, the present, what is, being, existence, experience, consciousness, mind, all refer to
>You say I can’t use words to show someone the moon, but I disagree.
"disagreeing" with the truth just makes you wrong
>I can use words to invent math, math to create machines, and machines to create computers
completely wrong
mathematics is a description of what is already there, which is the fractal mathematical structure known as reality, mathematics is not "invented", but utilized to achieve what you desire in the present
>I can then use computers to render a scale depiction of the moon which can model accurately what the moon is to someone who has never seen it before
that would still not be the Moon, not even at scale, because it would still be out of context relative to the real Moon
there is no way around this, no matter how hard you try
>the past that we stand on
again, there’s no such thing as "the past", only the present exists -
>No buddhist
Than don’t argument with it to give your train of thought a bit more weight.
Well at this point everything I’ll say, and I assume the same goes for you, will be redundant. We both made our point and neither seems to take it but hey, there is probably more we theoretically agree on than what we are currently argueing about at least that’s nice and refreshing. -
He clearly said that we change clothes/body and can live as different "people" , I misunderstood nothing. He can frame it many ways but in the end it’s all empty rhetoric for people who hate life. He even admitted than each new person being born is proof of his belief. A simple case of devaluing other human beings under the guise of spiritual freedom. Every religion/ideology goes in different ways about it but in reality the theories are non-sensical and don’t matter ultimately. It’s a complex form of baiting people into submitting to the rulers and it’s written in an abstract manner to serve as the rhetoric it is. Event the idea of eternal return is a stupid worldplay to convince a human being that life is ever repeating and not unique to each person.
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if i create a world where there is nothing but this infinite plane and a rock, the rock will never move an inch no matter how long you wait because a rock has no dynamic way to act. This world is the world where you acted the way you did at the moment you were alive, if this world resets you to this you without prior knowledge enabling you to act differently you will repeat the exact same actions, atom for atom, that led you here.
At that point you’re effectively rewinding the vcr take and playing it, over and over again, for eternity. Nothing changes because you are a static, you’ll just be a 4D rock.
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And yet I haven’t noticed a mind with any capacity to prove that it existed any time previous. Prove reincarnation exists to a wider audience, quit hiding behind "esoteric" excuses, shatter the illusion of reality already, i’m fuckin bored.
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If it’s just a set of clothes how can you be sure it isn’t worn by another the next time around?
And since they get better every time there are experiences you can only gain from the more flawed versions which in turn can lead to an improvement to yourself.
And sorry, nobody who ever typed out the words diametric opposite of truth was close to anything and I just joined that club to just point it out. There is nothing to be ashamed about the younger parts of this "one life" because since we don’t die they just make us older.-
>If it’s just a set of clothes how can you be sure it isn’t worn by another the next time around?
there’s no such thing as "the next time around" in the way you implicitly assume here
that being said, other people can absolutely wear bodies which are similar, or even almost exactly the same, as ones you are wearing or have worn in the past
this is known as "doppelgängers"
>And since they get better every time there are experiences you can only gain from the more flawed versions which in turn can lead to an improvement to yourself.
yes, no one said anything else
everything is spiraling fractally upwards in perpetuity
excelsior!
>And sorry, nobody who ever typed out the words diametric opposite of truth was close to anything and I just joined that club to just point it out.
wrong
I just did, and what I’m saying is verifiably true
when you know what’s true, you also know what diametrically opposed to the truth-
And if there is no next time around the clothes gone stay gone. It doesn’t matter how you twist and turn that analogy you’ve chosen to yourself it doesn’t really work in your favour no matter how often you mantra the word truth to yourself. Back to the cosmic planning board i’d suggest. I’ll do the same but hopefully to not come to the same conclusion than the void fraction. Because leading an eternal life of nothing or awaiting death to gain the same. It’s really the same for me.
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>And if there is no next time around the clothes gone stay gone.
I just told you, your idea of "next time around" is nonsensical, there’s no such thing, there is just life
yes, if decide to never wear jeans again, then once you throw out your last set of jeans, then there’s no "next time around" for jeans on your part, but that’s as far as that analogy goes
>Because leading an eternal life of nothing or awaiting death to gain the same. It’s really the same for me.
again, these are the diametric opposite of one another, because anyone who realizes the truth, namely that there is only life, does not "lead an eternal life of nothing"
that attitude stems entirely from the latter, namely the notion of "awaiting death" because you still irrationally believe in death, which does not exist>Yes they are called new people being born.
wrong
new bodies coming into existence is not new people being born, any more than you are born when you put on your clothes in the morning
>You insist that they’re reincarnated but don’t offer proof of this.
thinking of "reincarnation" as something high and lofty as you clearly are doing is like calling putting on your clothes something equivalently fancy, like "reenrobement"
it’s mildly amusing to think about it that way if you like, but ultimately it’s nonsensical, because there’s nothing special about it
>We observe the exact opposite everyday so it sounds like you’re a liar and very evil to me personally.
no, what you observe every single day is that bodies are ceasing to function
you are not your body, nor are you anything else that you can possess or experience, such as your clothes
>I don’t like dismissive people who make big claims with no proof.
I’ve provided proof over and over again
there’s nothing "big" about the claims either, it’s just the facts"you" is by definition that which is experiencing, so anything inside that experience is by definition not you
plenty of such cases, do research
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>new bodies coming into existence is not new people being born, any more than you are born when you put on your clothes in the morning
Evil
>there’s nothing "big" about the claims either, it’s just the facts
And delusionalThe more you post the worse it makes you look. You keep saying that your opinion is objective without any evidence to offer. Stay brainwashed I guess, it seems like you don’t even know what "proof" means. Your assertions are just brainfarts like all opinions who fail to be demostrated. You will cease moving and breathing just like every other person and that scares.
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Everybody dies but death only exists for the living. A dead person can’t experience death so itself can only live. At least that’s my gist I take from that old pic that other anon posted. In theory both beliefs are kinda irrelevant. If there’s nothing there’s nothing to worry about. If death doesn’t exist fearing it is a delusion. But the problem with the void solution in my experience is that it also creates a void in your life. Ppl pretend that since they believe there’s nothing it’s enough to Go "yolo" and cherish their lifes but in reality most following it just start to transform their lifes into nothing as preperation.
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>Everybody dies
wrong
like I just said, there is no such thing as death
no one dies
that’s not a belief, it’s an incontrovertible metaphysical fact of reality
>If death doesn’t exist fearing it is a delusion.
correct
and death does indeed not exist, so the fear of death is the most irrational belief ever, bar none
it is from this fear that all other fears flow
>most following it just start to transform their lifes into nothing as preperation.
correct, because they are acting out of the irrational belief in death-
Maybe I should be more specific " everybody dies for someone else" meaning that we can only experience death through others.
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and again, that’s wrong
no one dies, not through themselves, nor for anyone
what you see are bodies ceasing to function, that’s no different from someone taking off their clothes-
how so
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>As a person sheds worn-out garments and wears new ones, likewise, at the time of death, the soul casts off its worn-out body and enters a new one.
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Reincarnation is just the spiritual version of this.
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kek
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I loled.
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>gets aborted
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>oh no, those clothes I ordered got lost in the mail
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Yes and for those remaining that ceasing of function has meaning because something got taken from their lifes. Death exists for you no matter if you convince yourself that it’s just a shedding of clothes and as someone who saw quite a few people die in my profession I believe that you shouldn’t see it as simple as shedding clothes and think this kind of thinking is exclusive to those who were either sheltered or disassociated from the experience. If you die, you die for others and this has consequences. Even if it’s just the guy who has to scrape up your innards or simply noticing something has changed.
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>but in reality most following it just start to transform their lifes into nothing as preperation.
Man this hit me hard. I’ve had some serious yet so far due to corona not quite confirmed, treated health issues and this has been me.
I don’t understand how people knowing that our end is a fact can go on and do stuff. I don’t get it… Probably it’s because for most people it’s a "distant future" kind of thing.
That was a great way you described this though.-
>I don’t understand how people knowing that our end is a fact can go on and do stuff
the entire point is that that "knowing" is a false belief, because there’s no such thing as "our end", there’s no such thing as death
that anon correctly identifies that people who hold this false belief act completely irrationally due to that, but erroneously claimed that the same is true for those who understand that life is all there is, whereas in reality the diametric opposite is true, people who understand that live life to the fullest at all times-
>in reality the diametric opposite is true
You mean, "there is no end" by this too, right?
How would that be any more rational?
There was a definitive beginning to you once before, at birth, at your first cognition no?
What makes thinking of a definite end any more unreasonable?-
>There was a definitive beginning to you once before, at birth, at your first cognition no?
wrong
there’s no beginning or end to "you", what you’re talking about is a body, but a body is no different to "you" than a set of clothes
fact is that anything "you" can experience, including your body (and anything else that is "yours" rather than "you"), is not "you"
>As a person sheds worn-out garments and wears new ones, likewise, at the time of death, the soul casts off its worn-out body and enters a new one.-
>that is "yours" rather than "you"
This resonated with me more than I expected. Something I can link to personal experience.
Makes sense now, thank you for taking the time.-
>Of the transient there is no endurance, and of the eternal there is no cessation. This has verily been observed by the seers of the truth, after studying the nature of both.
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Why do you post a Taoist teacher when quoted directly from a Hindu text?
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first of all, that is Guru Rinpoche, also known as Padmasambhava, a Tibetan master, not a Taoist teacher
secondly, all those traditions teach the same thing, which is the truth
>Truth is one, sages call it by various names. -
Excuse me – you are correct, I confused Tibetan Buddhism with Taoism.
But that makes it worse as Buddhism and the philosophy of the Gita are not compatible. -
>Buddhism and the philosophy of the Gita are not compatible
completely wrong, and a common misconception, even among millions of people who call themselves Buddhists today
fact is that Gautama was absolutely just teaching the exact same truth taught by the Vedas and Upanishads, but condensed into a message more easy to comprehend
only later did various sects and cults try to set themselves apart by claiming that Buddhism was different and incompatible, but that was never the case at all
one of the most fatal misconceptions in this regard was a deliberate misunderstanding of what Gautama meant by "anatta", with many modern Buddhist sectarians and cultists clinging to the notion that it means "there is no self", whereas in reality it was always used as an adjective meaning "not-self", in order to point to the aggregates, which are all not the self, so that the obviousness of the actual self, the Buddha-nature, would shine forth, so in essence it was actually woke af on precisely the same apophatic way of understanding the truth as the Vedic "net neti", "not this, not that" -
So yes, if you twist Buddhism to have an eternal self, or twist Vedism to have no eternal self you can make them appear to be the same.
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read the post again, I addressed that very misconception in great detail
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No, you asserted a few things and twisted incompatible concepts so they appear the same.
Have fun with it.
I give you another thousand lifetimes to untangle yourself. -
no, I pointed out how they were originally the same teaching, so it’s not so much that the teachings were "compatible", but that they were literally the same
again:
>Truth is one, sages call it by various names.
it’s rather modern "Buddhist" (in name only) sectarians and cultists who have twisted the teachings in order to try to separate themselves out and be special
I really explained all of that in great detail, so you should really read the post again until you understand -
If you’re not going to have fun with your misconception, it’s going to take you two thousand lifetimes.
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>your misconception
you’re the one who is clinging to a misconception, I am explaining the origin of that misconception
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Imagine wanting to exist more in this putrid hell world. I wish death was the end of my existence so I never have to suffer here ever again.
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The universe is vast and if there are I finite universes you might just spawn onto a planet as a species that isn’t freaking scrotebrained like us humans. Or maybe you’ll get something even worse
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Not my problem
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t. reptilian
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I wish that were true.
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You die, time passes, the universe collapses and explodes again, your life just restarts
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I want to believe the universe is cyclical. Or at least if it can happen it can happen again. I have a theory on universes, matter and gravity that might tie everything together. Not sure how valid it is since i’m no astrophysicist.
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>I have a theory on universes, matter and gravity that might tie everything together. Not sure how valid it is since i’m no astrophysicist.
I too have a theory on how cancer can be cured by injecting cum in the dead cells, not sure how valid it is since I’m not a doctor-
Well, I’d anyone should know, it’s you.
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What’s the guarantee that life starts exactly the same as last time?
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He hurt them
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nothing truly ends
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respect
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If I have to be reincarnated can I choose to be in a different world or do I have to come back here?
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Anything is better than working and sacrificing for whatever the fuck this is.
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Where is that?
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The end of the world.
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Death is the end of your body, always there with no middle to abandon. With a birth, it’s identical… the beginning of where won’t choose woke af in other-worldly means.
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https://i.imgur.com/AQFR5Az.gif
I’m electronic light waves in a gene suit I can’t die.
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congrats m8!
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>or is it the final act
Death is when the curtains close and everyone leaves. -
It’s an indeterminate event horizon.
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Death no longer scares me after my cat died. Life sucks without her, i’m so full of regrets and i miss her so much, in a way i feel dead, like i just don’t care about anything now at all, it feels like the centet of my world vanished, and i just feel so lost. after she died my brain kept giving me like flashbacks to a decade ago before i met her, like my mind was trying to understand what has happened and realized we are all alone again now, my cat was kinda like my gf, spent a lot of time together, slept in bed etc, i was her only caretaker etc. i hope if her soul exists still, that she misses me, because i really miss her and think about her constantly. i try to act as if her soul does still exist and can sense my love so i sorta pray to her all day. i’d be pretty bummed if death is just ceasing to exist, for her sake. she was so important to me, yet now i am supposed to just live decades more without her? i honestly never knew what heart break was till she died. it’s very powerful, nothing compares. i thought i was suffering before she died, as the family had already lost all grandparents and previous beloved pets. but still, i loved her more, so it was much worse than everything else combined.
sorry i can’t add anything smart to this thread. i just miss my friend
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This is my dog. Hope he cheers u up like he cheers me up
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that was a very sincere,heartfelt post,I think that was a great contribution
I hope you two see each other again
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Death is probably the end, but pascal’s wagermaxxing / buddhistmaxxing is worth the investment on a cosmic timescale, regardless
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Life is plethora of things, I believe the spirit can harmonize with people thus giving them multiple lives, for me, I think I teleported back in time to earth and just was like, "everything is True", and we lives in a pantheon of living gods for life and death. and so we are inheritors of a celestial kingdom for our good deeds. Or we can rock out with nature which is baller as fuck.
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This world is bizarre, clearly revolves around our souls and consciousness. Don’t get too attached to your body and this life. You’re here to grow and learn complex moral conundrums and experience deprivation. Adversity builds character. Learn what you are and concern yourself with prioritizing your duties here on Earth and growing yourself spiritually.
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We all gonna die
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it’s a continuation. you’re literally here forever.
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it is the greatest gift.
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If you think life is a singular occurrence then you are unironically blind towards your own surroundings.
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It’s impossible to know, and therefore not worth thinking about. Embrace the cube.
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consciousness is emergent and not a property in and of itself. as long as the universe is hospitable to life as we know or, or perhaps even as we don’t know it, then death will never be the ‘end’
as far as the end of your immediate experience and sense of self? that probably ends. do you experience something beyond your dissociated alter once its body fails to support life? hard to say for sure.
we don’t ‘remember’ anything about our experience (if it existed) before birth because we didn’t have the hardware to store memories, we didn’t have a body or brain to use as storage space. does that mean there was no ‘raw’ or primordial experience that defied memory or reference to a human body? it’s probably the same force that caused life to begin in the first place -
Both
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is birth just a new beginning or is it the final act forever?
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