How does the drowning rats experiment make evolutionary sense

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    • #202034
      Anonymous
      Guest

      how does the drowning rats experiment make evolutionary sense

    • #202035
      Anonymous
      Guest

      how does your LULZ addiction make evolutionary sense

      • #202036
        Anonymous
        Guest

        it doesn’t im here for to strengthen my soul but most of you guys don’t believe in that

      • #202037
        Anonymous
        Guest

        Unsurprisingly, an ethnic German.

        I met my wife on /soc/

        • #202038
          Anonymous
          Guest

          >I met my wife on /soc/
          and your offspring shall be school shooters

        • #202115
          Anonymous
          Guest

          Genuine question anon, what is she like? I always figured /soc/ attracts a certain kind of unpleasant person. Unless maybe it was on a discord thread?

      • #202055
        Anonymous
        Guest

        The brain craves dopamine.

    • #202041
      Anonymous
      Guest

      Obviously, if an animal knows it can survive, it will stick around until it finds a chance.
      A lot of animals just off themselves when they find it is impossible to survive.

      Even human muscles are way more capable than we can actually exert because our bodies don’t want us to kill ourselves.

      • #202042
        Anonymous
        Guest

        >Obviously, if an animal knows it can survive, it will stick around until it finds a chance.
        >A lot of animals just off themselves when they find it is impossible to survive.

        you gave 0 answers to the question in OP. from an evolutionary perspective rats should keep swimming for 60 hours because something might happen even in situations they don’t immediately see a way out of.

        • #202044
          Anonymous
          Guest

          What is the difference between knowing and not knowing?
          Just like how a depressed enough person would off themselves instead of doing anything or changing their lifestyle, so would animals.
          Not a hard concept to grasp.

        • #202117
          Anonymous
          Guest

          Why do humans drown after only a few hours? Why don’t they keep it up for 3 days? Surely they know that a rescue might come.

      • #202087
        Anonymous
        Guest

        >A lot of animals just off themselves when they find it is impossible to survive.
        Do you mind sourcing that?

        • #202088
          Anonymous
          Guest
          • #202090
            Anonymous
            Guest

            The rat is light enough to survive that.

        • #202106
          Anonymous
          Guest

          They don’t kill themselves but sometimes they will just give up and wait to die. Dogs will sometimes stop eating and slowly starve to death if their mate dies.

    • #202043
      Anonymous
      Guest

      They are smart, and thought the human would rescue them again. We are like gods to them. Unfortunately, humanity is sorely lacking in cognition of its godly responsibility towards other life forms, and we cruelly kill and drown rats for the sake of #science.

      • #202046
        Anonymous
        Guest

        seriously this sick german poopyhole could have saved them, when he saw them give up. Why did he have to let them drown for real? Why didn’t he at least save the rats that learned?

        • #202047
          Anonymous
          Guest

          Onions moment
          >nuuuu meh heckin ratterionoo noo
          Post nose and ethnicity

          • #202048
            Anonymous
            Guest

            oh look, a triggered german, misusing memes and misreading situations. I can smell your german autism from here buddy.

          • #202111
            Anonymous
            Guest

            kek, i wouldnt be able to sit and watch rats for 60 hours even with a gram of speed

        • #202054
          Anonymous
          Guest

          keep your veganism to yourself

        • #202059
          Anonymous
          Guest

          >german
          Did you need any more to know why?

          • #202069
            Anonymous
            Guest

            I guess germans have an axe to grind with any rodent

        • #202066
          Anonymous
          Guest

          Do you think he sat there and watched for 2 and a half days? He recorded it.

        • #202071
          Anonymous
          Guest

          All animals used in experiments are killed an dissected at the end.

          • #202073
            Anonymous
            Guest

            thats not even remotely true, only if the experiment requires it.

            • #202078
              Anonymous
              Guest

              Killing animals in science experiments is normal. Anyone who has a problem with it should stay away from medicine and the biological sciences.

              • #202101
                Anonymous
                Guest

                >Killing animals in science experiments is normal
                It also used to be normal to own slaves, burn witches at the stake and kill each other in the name of God. Just because it’s acceptable doesn’t mean it’s morally right.

                • #202102
                  Anonymous
                  Guest

                  killing in the name of god is still done today scrotebrain

                  • #202103
                    Anonymous
                    Guest

                    Yeah and the people doing so are used in examples like these to point out scrotebrained bronze-age subhuman scum.

                • #202104
                  Anonymous
                  Guest

                  At some point animal testing is necessary because the alternative would be going straight to human testing. SOMETHING has to suffer in order to test medication, at our current technological level. There’s just no way around it.

                  • #202105
                    Anonymous
                    Guest

                    >At some point
                    Whatever that line is, "finding out how long it takes mice to drown" doesn’t cross it as a worthy hypothesis.
                    >SOMETHING has to suffer
                    Humans serving jail time for murder can give consent, mice cannot.

                    • #202107
                      Anonymous
                      Guest

                      I agree on both counts, but if we develop a brand new chemical, I’d personally rather test it on a mouse first to make sure it doesn’t cause Krokodil symptoms. Plus, some things like prosthetics that require implants to function should first be tested on simpler organisms for practical reasons. Drowning mice in OP’s fashion doesn’t pass any of my personal requirements for humaneness nor usefulness.

                      Pic somewhat related.

                  • #202110
                    Anonymous
                    Guest

                    you could just save the rats, once they give up. Nothing is forcing you to kill them for real. Some experiments may require death, but this one obviously doesn’t.

              • #202121
                Anonymous
                Guest

                Killing animals can be done humamely or by 81 hour drowning sessions.

        • #202092
          Anonymous
          Guest

          Rodents are disgusting, have plagued humanity for thousands of years, and they are lucky we don’t breed them solely to suffer for 100% of their conscious life.

          • #202094
            Anonymous
            Guest

            back to /b/ with you brainlet

          • #202096
            Anonymous
            Guest

            >this creature is ugly so let’s torture it
            The logic of every middle school bully

            • #202097
              Anonymous
              Guest

              >t. ugly incel
              lol go shoot up a school chud

              • #202098
                Anonymous
                Guest

                Reddit moment

        • #202099
          Anonymous
          Guest

          Zen how could vi know how long zi ratz could svim?

        • #202100
          Anonymous
          Guest

          I’ve noticed this trend in modern times, every animal experiment in the history of mankind that resulted in animal harm, when we mention it, it is mandatory that we will take the time to point out how emotionally anguishing we find the entire concept.

          >is the advance of science worth the suffering of rats
          Yep

    • #202045
      Anonymous
      Guest

      Omits the part where domesticated rats even without being pulled out would survive freaking days anyway

    • #202051
      Anonymous
      Guest

      It probably has to do with learned helplessness. If you tie a rat down, it will get stressed as hell and might even get PTSD, which is natural because being tied down in nature is a death sentence. But if you give it a rope to chew on, even if it’s not even part of the constraints, the rat will be much less stressed. The ability to "fight back" is an important tool for psychological health, and in the case of water the rats learnt that their struggles weren’t in vain. Water treading is also itself a measure of learned helplessness, so with the case of the ropes, the rats who were given something to chew on would immediately fight much longer than the rats who were constrained helplessly.

    • #202053
      Anonymous
      Guest

      >evolution = intelligent design
      that being said
      >if you think you can survive you try to survive
      >if you think you can’t survive you give up

    • #202056
      Anonymous
      Guest

      A few minutes of rest.

    • #202057
      Anonymous
      Guest

      >expectation -> dopamine -> increased motivation
      An extreme manifestation of the consequences of a normal mechanism.

    • #202058
      Anonymous
      Guest

      God

    • #202060
      Anonymous
      Guest

      The power of positive thinking.

      Believing you can survive has a huge impact on surviving. Hopelessness leads to an early defeat.

      • #202061
        Anonymous
        Guest
        • #202062
          Anonymous
          Guest

          Maybe some things are outside of strict evolutionary reasoning. Evolution gave us the brain capacity to do logic, but logic can be run on many different architectures to yield the same results.

        • #202064
          Anonymous
          Guest

          What is the evolutionary reason for suicide?
          Sometimes people and animals will just choose to not suffer instead of suffering, because they are not machines, they think, feel, despair and lose hope

        • #202065
          Anonymous
          Guest

          Let’s think of depression as a reason.
          What is the evolutionary purpose of depression? Why can’t we be happy? Why do people end up killing themselves because they are depressed?

          The theory I am aware of is that happiness makes us less productive. Think of a tribesman who hunts and over his first kill, gets so happy he doesn’t need to hunt again to feel happy anymore. While on the other hand, you have a tribesman who gets less happy and even depressed if he does not hunt for the day. Obviously, the second tribesman will get ladies and his tribe’s respect.

          This is why depression was selected for. Now imagine someone who is too dumb to get anything right, but also gets depressed. Eventually, if he doesn’t find a way out, he would probably either cope and NEET, or kill himself.

          Obviously, not anything selected for works in all environments, so when you put people in modern higher education, brain required society, it will result in tons of depressed people who can’t seem to find a place to work or just find it too hard to learn, so their path of least resistance to survive would be basically depending on gibs.

          Either way, I am getting off-topic here. The environment similar to the Richter experiment, where there seems to be no hope, is gonna lead to more depressed brains that would easily give up. Especially for rats where their life doesn’t matter much to propagate their genes since they literally birth up to 15 or 16 babies in a single litter.

          With humans, they take way more time to off themselves, which is why psychology is a big field even when it has tons of problems.

        • #202070
          Anonymous
          Guest

          its almost like living things are not machines. We have intricate nerve systems and brains having only one purpuse: trying to trick the soul into living in this body.

        • #202076
          Anonymous
          Guest

          >Having a clear understanding of your surroundings and your situation is a positive trait in most situations because it allows you to analyze a situation and its different approaches
          >In this extreme example neither swimming nor giving up has a clear advantage, and the ones that understand their situation decide to give up.

        • #202113
          Anonymous
          Guest

          https://i.imgur.com/OBT5YI6.gif

          >evolution is the end all be all
          kek

      • #202072
        Anonymous
        Guest

        You’re ascribing consciousness, an ability to imaginatively extrapolate into future events, and emotions to rats. I think it’s a bit far.

        • #202075
          Anonymous
          Guest

          Rats are highly intelligent

    • #202063
      Anonymous
      Guest

      Animals can sometimes simply give up on living, anon, when there isn’t really much sense for them to go on. Widowers (loss of monogamic partner). Elephant graveyards (old age). Pets losing their owners (no more master to serve). You won’t find this in plants, however. Plants have an unshakable will to live, for some reason, and will "give up" and die only if they’re seasonal.

    • #202067
      Anonymous
      Guest

      I think it makes sense if you assume there is a utility function inside the rat which assigns a given utility to any given action in a probabilistic sense. In the first case, if the rats believed 100% that they were going to die, then the utility associated with continuing to struggle is lower than just dying, because they are only extending their suffering. In the second case, the rats believe there is a chance they might be saved, so the utility associated with continuing to live multiplied by the rats perceived possibility of life is higher than the utility associated with giving up and dying. I think the answer to your question is as simple as, the rats in the first experiment were simply 100% convinced they would die, and if you are 100% certain, there is no point in struggle. In the second cases, they were less certain and had hope, so there was a point in struggle.

      • #202074
        Anonymous
        Guest

        I think you’re on the right track. But the question becomes what it is about this system where the function of [avoiding suffering] is allowed to outweigh the function of [avoiding death] that propagates the genes better. Perhaps it could have something to do with social behavior.

    • #202068
      Anonymous
      Guest

      Human cohabitation makes people believe they will be saved.

    • #202077
      Anonymous
      Guest

      fake facebook shit

    • #202079
      Anonymous
      Guest

      Has someone repeated this experiment with rats who already had offspring and virgin rats?
      The virgin rats should fight harder as they had no chance to pass down their genes yet, right?

      • #202080
        Anonymous
        Guest

        nah, the virgins will be full of frustration and won’t be able to take on much additional frustration and quit pretty quickly.

    • #202081
      Anonymous
      Guest

      Imagine being the guy sitting there with a stopwatch watching those poor little fuckers drown.
      Monsters.

      • #202082
        Anonymous
        Guest

        Anon, I think (You)’d like this book. Most of the posters here, actually.

        • #202083
          Anonymous
          Guest

          I’m not up for that time commitment, but I’m halfway through the movie now and it’s really good.

          • #202085
            Anonymous
            Guest

            I finished it and it bonked me up. Extremely sad and dark. They should have kept the “gnomish hunter takes pity on them because the brain surgery scars reminded them of Dachau” from the book though.

            • #202089
              Anonymous
              Guest

              Yeah, I couldn’t bring myself to finish it. Too much.

            • #202093
              Anonymous
              Guest

              >low quality fiction novel
              >mandatory holohoax reference
              Lmao

              • #202095
                Anonymous
                Guest

                But this was in the 70s when comparing animal experimentation to the Holocaust would actually have been edgy.

              • #202120
                Anonymous
                Guest

                Actually lowkey woke af since it likens garden gnomes to lab animals

    • #202086
      Anonymous
      Guest

      This makes me realize I’m too weak for science. Damn that just makes me feel awful.

    • #202091
      Anonymous
      Guest

      Gentlemen, how do we convive waggies that they will never make it and rentoids that they will never own and thrd worlder they will never be rich? To fight global climate change you know.

    • #202109
      Anonymous
      Guest

      NOOO THE POOR RATS STOP IT

    • #202114
      Anonymous
      Guest

      LULZ – Facebook Moms

    • #202116
      Anonymous
      Guest

      Hope/Cope is a powerful drug

      that’s why when someone tells you to Cope
      they are actually being positive and telling you to push further

    • #202118
      Anonymous
      Guest

      not everything is an adaptation

    • #202119
      Anonymous
      Guest

      >thing happens so it invariably must be happening BECAUSE…
      Midwit detected

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