How could the Byzantine Empire fail with such a giant army and so much money?

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    • #117500
      Anonymous
      Guest

      How could the Byzantine Empire fail with such a giant army and so much money?

    • #117501
      Anonymous
      Guest

      Because they were literal scrotebrains who hired mercenaries
      AKA THE LITERALLY BIGGEST ERROR TO DO
      The most hilarious thing is when they hired turks……… to reconquer cities and lands…. FROM Qfreaking TURKS
      Literally what were they thinking ?
      Mercenaries have no loyalty and would betray you even when you have money

      Btw Manzikert and Fourth Crusade are disasters starded….. BY MERCENARIES

      • #117502
        Anonymous
        Guest

        but it worked for the Italians bro

        • #117505
          Anonymous
          Guest

          Exemple

          • #117508
            Anonymous
            Guest
            • #117510
              Anonymous
              Guest

              bullying Balkanoids and Gayreeks and then getting raped by Ottomans is not a good military record

              • #117512
                Svetovid
                Guest

                Venetians never bullied anyone in SE Europe, at best, they took advantage of Ottoman invasions to undermine the native states, they were also trashed by the Narentines for several hundred years, while vastly outnumbering them.

                • #117513
                  Anonymous
                  Guest

                  >Venetians never bullied anyone in SE Europe
                  HAHAHAHA

                  • #117518
                    Svetovid
                    Guest

                    Name two SE European states they’ve bullied?

                    Getting strong schizo vibes from this user.

                    Your mother’s lips are engulfing my shaft as we speak, post your results.

                    • #117523
                      Anonymous
                      Guest

                      schizoid and schizo are two wholly different things

                      • #117525
                        Svetovid
                        Guest

                        That’s what’s actual schizos says, now post them results, mutt.

                    • #117526
                      Anonymous
                      Guest
                      • #117531
                        Svetovid
                        Guest

                        Not sure what’s more amusing, the fact that you consider Catholic crusaders treacherously sacking a Catholic city an example of Venetian bullying or the fact that the article lists the Croatian/Hungarian numbers as "unknown", even though we know that the garrison was only 1200 strong.

                      • #117533
                        Anonymous
                        Guest

                        yeah and what about the local population scrotebrain. They were forced to flee while the Venetians and Crusaders gobbled everything left behind. The Venice defense force really needs to do a better job

                      • #117536
                        Svetovid
                        Guest

                        How am I the "Venice defence force", when I’m pointing out the absurdity of their claim? The ((Crusaders)) quite literally sacked a Christian city, and these mutts consider that a triumph.

                      • #117537
                        Anonymous
                        Guest

                        Venice was the leader and directed the entire crusade

                      • #117538
                        Svetovid
                        Guest

                        And?

                  • #117519
                    Anonymous
                    Guest

                    What’s funny? Here in Montenegro, all they did was an attempt to assassinate rulers of Zeta or invade when our armies were busy with the Ottomans, that’s 9/10 of Venetian involvement on the peninsula, real history isn’t a EU4 run.

                    • #117527
                      Anonymous
                      Guest

                      >Montenegro
                      no one cares about your tiny shithole

                      • #117532
                        Anonymous
                        Guest

                        Zeta, unlike whatever hole spawned you, had the world’s first state-owned printing state during its twilight years, and even if it were a shithole, how does it refute Venetians being garden gnome-born vermin? Why are you moving goal posts?

                • #117515
                  Anonymous
                  Guest

                  Getting strong schizo vibes from this user.

                • #117520
                  Anonymous
                  Guest

                  Byzantium probably would have been able to hold its ground against the Turks, if the Venetians weren’t constantly stabbing them in the back. People who try to defend them are idiots.

                  • #117521
                    Svetovid
                    Guest

                    I blame Crusader Kings and Europa Universalis for these obsessions with upstart merchant-states.

                    • #117565
                      Anonymous
                      Guest

                      i think it comes from City of Fortune by Roger Crowley more than anything. fwiw I agree, Venice did Byzantium in moreso than Manzikert did.

                    • #117566
                      Anonymous
                      Guest

                      Why would you be mad at a richer state that can field an actual infantry army composed of a middle class who can afford it? I can point to the city states and point at the average person and go ‘that’s literally me, but medieval.’

                  • #117524
                    Anonymous
                    Guest

                    Their only weapon against the Turks was to evangelize them and then cuck them, like they did to the pechenegs, bulgars, western kipchaks. They couldn’t do this to khazars or to Seljuks.

                    • #117529
                      Anonymous
                      Guest

                      Rhomanos BTFO’d a Pechneg army on the field so hard they swore fealthy to him before he turned around to face the Seljuks in the East and get sent to Alp Arslan’s rape dungeon.

                      • #117543
                        Anonymous
                        Guest

                        After the Byzantines made the Pechenegs Christian, they were weaker and defeated. They couldn’t do this to Muslim Seljuks or gnomish Khazars.

                        The Muslim Seljuks were hired as mercenaries to fight Byzantine civil wars, and that’s the first time a major contingent crossed into Europe from Gallipoli/Cannakkale. The Kantakuzene brought him over to fight his grandad I think.

                      • #117544
                        Anonymous
                        Guest

                        Also the Byzantine Tourkopole Pechenegs switched sides in Manzikert

                    • #117571
                      Anonymous
                      Guest

                      No it doesnt work scrotebrain

            • #117511
              Anonymous
              Guest

              I said hiring mercenaries
              Not being a mercenary

        • #117534
          Anonymous
          Guest

          No it literally didn’t. Mercenary use bit them in the ass

        • #117550
          Anonymous
          Guest

          Croat and Iberian mercenaries often bonked over their adventures.

        • #117563
          Anonymous
          Guest

          Then why was Machiavelli so butthurt about them?

      • #117540
        Anonymous
        Guest

        The stereotype of the treacherous Greek was 100% justified.
        Now, most of the time they were backstabbing each other, but also many times they betrayed their Christian, supposedly allied Western Latins. The first time they were called to act, the Latins assembled the largest army in Europe at Constantinople ready to help the Emperor reconquer Anatolia, but after more than a century of constant betrayal they stopped caring to help unless the Greeks payed them to do it.
        Byzantiboos always ignore the times when the Greeks betrayed the Latins, but then cry nonstop about the Latin response.
        Eg. 1:
        >Alexios makes a deal with the infidels he’s supposedly fighting against during the siege of Nicaea, completely snubbing the Crusaders he himself asked for help
        >in return, Crusaders consider the pact they made with the emperor to give him the lands they conquered in Anatolia to be forfeit, and go to create the Outremer kingdoms

        Eg. 2:
        >Deposed Greek prince asks excommunicated "crusaders" (aka mercenaries) to help him regain his throne, in exchange of a lot of money
        >"crusaders" do just that, they put him in the throne
        >Greek prince refuses to pay and tells crusaders to go away
        >crusaders sack Constantinople and take their pay by force
        >incessant screeching about muh perfidious crusaders and muh fourth crusade ensues

        And don’t forget about the massacre of the Latins.

        >How could they fail with such a giant army and so much freaking money?
        mercenary armies are good for short term gain nothing else

        They have literally no advantage
        Mercenaries are literally bandit who want easy money
        Thats why everybody and their mothers became mercenaries in middle ages/antiquity

        In the particular case of the Byzantines, Roger de Flor, Catalan mercenary, was very successful at driving back the early Ottoman Turks from Anatolia. The only problem is that the Greeks backstabbed him, literally.
        After the death of their commander and 1,000 of their members, the remaining Catalans went on their own murder spree across Greece, which ended with them taking over Attica, which they ruled as the Duchy of Athens for almost 70 years until Attica was conquered by another group of Spanish mercenaries, which ruled it until the Ottomans conquered Greece.

        • #117547
          Anonymous
          Guest

          What’s funny to me is the Greeks backstabbed Romans before Byzantium and the Greeks fell to Romans because they backstabbed each other and the Greeks fell to Persians because of betrayal as well.

    • #117503
      Anonymous
      Guest

      >How could they fail with such a giant army and so much freaking money?
      mercenary armies are good for short term gain nothing else

      • #117506
        Anonymous
        Guest

        They have literally no advantage
        Mercenaries are literally bandit who want easy money
        Thats why everybody and their mothers became mercenaries in middle ages/antiquity

      • #117530
        Anonymous
        Guest

        Because they were literal scrotebrains who hired mercenaries
        AKA THE LITERALLY BIGGEST ERROR TO DO
        The most hilarious thing is when they hired turks……… to reconquer cities and lands…. FROM Qfreaking TURKS
        Literally what were they thinking ?
        Mercenaries have no loyalty and would betray you even when you have money

        Btw Manzikert and Fourth Crusade are disasters starded….. BY MERCENARIES

        >Muh mercenaries
        You do know that’s pop history, right? They didn’t use mercenaries as often as pop history makes you think. They only stopped having a large-ish professional army by the time of the Komnenos, hence why Alexios called in the crusaders and started using mercenaries.

        • #117535
          Anonymous
          Guest

          >You do know that’s pop history, right? T
          You do know it’s historical fact right? Alexios was dependent on Turk mercenaries in his balkan wars

          • #117541
            Anonymous
            Guest

            >Alexios
            Mate, I mentioned Alexios
            >They only stopped having a large-ish professional army by the time of the Komnenos, hence why Alexios called in the crusaders and started using mercenaries.

            At least read the entire 3 sentence response before posting. By the time Alexios becomes emperor, Anataloia is flooded with the Turks, Normans have crushed their armies in the West, Pechenegs and Magyrs are becoming more of a threat. Between 400 AD to 1071, they weren’t relying heavily on mercenary forces. They only started doing so when the game was more-or-less over. They lost their recruiting territories (and tax revenue territories) in the Balkans and in Anatolia, so they had to rely in mercenaries.

            In short, they didn’t fail because of mercenaries, they used mercenaries, because they failed. This is where my pop history comment comes into play.

            • #117542
              Anonymous
              Guest

              >This is where my pop history comment comes into play.
              and that’s why you’re still wrong. The Byzantines employed Norman mercenaries decades before Alexios as well

            • #117545
              Anonymous
              Guest

              How are you contradicting anything? Frankish type mercenaries aka Normans or Catalans ended up going on their own tangential conquering sprees.

    • #117504
      Anonymous
      Guest

      they were too busy doing roman things (backstabbing each other) to actually realize that their country is pooping the bed

      • #117507
        Anonymous
        Guest

        Also this
        Too much Civil wars

    • #117509
      Anonymous
      Guest

      Look at this absolute unit of a military

      • #117539
        Anonymous
        Guest

        Fixed

        • #117568
          Anonymous
          Guest

          >The numbers, dedication and discipline of troops who feel invested in a Republican form of government far dwarfs, for almost 2000 years, the level of dedication a repressed peasantry has towards an arrogant and explotative system of aristocrats who treat human beings as nothing more than animals and beasts of burdens with no rights.

          Shocking. Who could have possibly forseen a lack of commitment by the people to a system which went from existing to guarantee the rights of Romans citizens, to exploiting them as serfs as just another medeval kingdom, the kingdom of the greeks mark 1000, torn apart by trechery and civil war, which can’t come close to meeting the standards of the Republican SPQR.

        • #117569
          Anonymous
          Guest

          >The numbers, dedication and discipline of troops who feel invested in a Republican form of government far dwarfs, for almost 2000 years, the level of dedication a repressed peasantry has towards an arrogant and explotative system of aristocrats who treat human beings as nothing more than animals and beasts of burdens with no rights.

          Shocking. Who could have possibly forseen a lack of commitment by the people to a system which went from existing to guarantee the rights of Romans citizens, to exploiting them as serfs as just another medeval kingdom, the kingdom of the greeks mark 1000, torn apart by trechery and civil war, which can’t come close to meeting the standards of the Republican SPQR.

          >The Roman Republic, with it’s resources almost entirely limited to that of the Italian peninsula, lost more soldiers in 3 battles with Hannibal in the second punic war, and still fielded a larger army in total, than the Kingdom of the Greeks was able to field in the last 1000 years of it’s existence.

          • #117570
            Anonymous
            Guest

            that’s more the result of ancient historians claiming 5 billion people killed in every battle

    • #117514
      Anonymous
      Guest

      They got bonked by Italian traders, Norman mercenaries, Turkish mercenaries.

    • #117516
      Anonymous
      Guest

      Are Chinese particularly interested in byantines? Lol just curious.

      • #117564
        Anonymous
        Guest

        There’s a bit of interest online

    • #117517
      Anonymous
      Guest

      By being greek.

    • #117522
      Anonymous
      Guest

      Incompetence

    • #117528
      Anonymous
      Guest

      They didn’t have a large army, had to deal with multiple rising powers on all sides.

    • #117546
      Anonymous
      Guest

      Despite what many anons say, Byzantium had constant steppe nomads pouring into Anatolia and Bulgaria and when they’d defeat one another would appear. They also had constant infighting.

    • #117548
      Anonymous
      Guest

      https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byzantine_civil_war_of_1352–1357

      Also they started the crusades after Manzikert in 1071, so they can’t really complain that the crusaders turned on them in 1204, or really, from the start when they refused to hand over the territories in the Levant.

    • #117549
      Anonymous
      Guest

      Are the Chinese Byzaboos or Ottoboos?

    • #117551
      Anonymous
      Guest

      I’d say they had a good run, nothing lasts forever.

    • #117552
      Anonymous
      Guest

      Decadence and corruption, the later period byzantine empire was ran like a sicilian mob outfit

    • #117553
      Anonymous
      Guest

      Becuase instead of doubling down after Manzikert and raising more, larger armies they spent the next 300 years fighting civil wars. They also put 0 effort into improving defenses for their new adversaries. This included the use of turkic mercenaries who were then allowed to settle even closer to the Aegean. Rinse, repeat, game over

      • #117555
        Anonymous
        Guest

        After Manzikert (1071) they begged/bribed the Western Latin Franks to send help, and they did, in the form of the First Crusade (1091).

        • #117557
          Anonymous
          Guest

          The initial crusades were successful. They just decided the problem wasn’t worth pursuing to an actual conclusion

          • #117559
            Anonymous
            Guest

            Yes. The Byzantines called for the First Crusade, and the Crusaders succeeded in pushing back the Turks from the Marmara Sea to Konya/Kayseri. And then the Byzantines said: we will keep the Levant for ourselves, starting with Bohemond in Antioch (Siege 1097-98), and set up their own Latin Frankish Crusader Kingdoms (capitalized to refer to a specific phenomenon). Eventually the Byzantines won 382 from their gambit of calling for Western help, but in 1204 one of these Crusades sacked the Byzantine capital itself, so you can think for yourself whether it was really worth it.

            • #117561
              Anonymous
              Guest

              > And then the Byzantines
              Correction, this should state: and then the Crusaders said…*

              >382
              382 years*, calculated from 1453-1071

          • #117560
            Anonymous
            Guest

            The latter crusades lost not because the Turks adapted, regrouped, and won. Every inland crusader army would face 10-20% losses by Skirmishing Anatolian Seljuk Turks, another 10-15% by Syrian Seljuk Turks, and then face a combined Muslim army to finally lose the rest of their soldiers.

            • #117562
              Anonymous
              Guest

              **Lost because the Turks adapted…. **

              Sorry lads. So many typos today.

            • #117567
              Anonymous
              Guest

              Yes, but that’s a lack of focus. The crusaders primary goal was always the Levant and Byzantine leaders post 1100 were very stupid

    • #117556
      Anonymous
      Guest
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