How can we have free will if God already knows what every human decision will be?

Home Forums General & off-topic How can we have free will if God already knows what every human decision will be?

  • This topic has 118 replies, 1 voice, and was last updated 8 months ago by Anonymous.
Viewing 28 reply threads
  • Author
    Posts
    • #68957
      Anonymous
      Guest

      How can we have free will if God already knows what every human decision will be?

    • #68958
      Anonymous
      Guest

      Selective foreknowledge means that God could choose not to foreknow indiscriminately all the future acts of his creatures. This would mean that, rather than all history from creation onward being a mere rerun of what had already been foreseen and foreordained, God could with all sincerity set before the first human pair the prospect of everlasting life in an earth free from wickedness. His instructions to his first human son and daughter to act as his perfect and sinless agents in filling the earth with their offspring and making it a paradise, as well as exercising control over the animal creation, could thus be expressed as the grant of a truly loving privilege and as his genuine desire toward them—not merely as the giving of a commission that, on their part, was foredoomed to failure. God’s arranging for a test by means of “the tree of the knowledge of good and bad” and his creation of “the tree of life” in the garden of Eden also would not be meaningless or cynical acts, made so by his foreknowing that the human pair would sin and never be able to eat of “the tree of life.”—Ge 1:28; 2:7-9, 15-17; 3:22-24.

      To offer something very desirable to another person on conditions known beforehand to be unreachable is recognized as both hypocritical and cruel. The prospect of everlasting life is presented in God’s Word as a goal for all persons, one possible to attain. After urging his listeners to ‘keep on asking and seeking’ good things from God, Jesus pointed out that a father does not give a stone or a serpent to his child that asks for bread or a fish. Showing his Father’s view of disappointing the legitimate hopes of a person, Jesus then said: “Therefore, if you, although being wicked, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more so will your Father who is in the heavens give good things to those asking him?”—Mt 7:7-11.

      • #68963
        Anonymous
        Guest

        Thus, the invitations and opportunities to receive benefits and everlasting blessings set before all men by God are bona fide. (Mt 21:22; Jas 1:5, 6) He can in all sincerity urge men to ‘turn back from transgression and keep living,’ as he did with the people of Israel. (Eze 18:23, 30-32; compare Jer 29:11, 12.) Logically, he could not do this if he foreknew that they were individually destined to die in wickedness. (Compare Ac 17:30, 31; 1Ti 2:3, 4.) As Jehovah told Israel: “Nor said I to the seed of Jacob, ‘Seek me simply for nothing, you people.’ I am Jehovah, speaking what is righteous, telling what is upright. . . . Turn to me and be saved, all you at the ends of the earth.”—Isa 45:19-22.

        In a similar vein, the apostle Peter writes: “Jehovah is not slow respecting his promise [of the coming day of reckoning], as some people consider slowness, but he is patient with you because he does not desire any to be destroyed but desires all to attain to repentance.” (2Pe 3:9) If God already foreknew and foreordained millenniums in advance precisely which individuals would receive eternal salvation and which individuals would receive eternal destruction, it may well be asked how meaningful such ‘patience’ of God could be and how genuine his desire could be that ‘all attain to repentance.’ The inspired apostle John wrote that “God is love,” and the apostle Paul states that love “hopes all things.” (1Jo 4:8; 1Co 13:4, 7) It is in harmony with this outstanding, divine quality that God should exercise a genuinely open, kindly attitude toward all persons, he being desirous of their gaining salvation, until they prove themselves unworthy, beyond hope. (Compare 2Pe 3:9; Heb 6:4-12.) Thus, the apostle Paul speaks of “the kindly quality of God [that] is trying to lead you to repentance.”—Ro 2:4-6.

        JW scrote just copy pasta from his stupid website.

        • #68964
          Anonymous
          Guest

          and that’s a problem because ?

          • #68965
            Anonymous
            Guest

            it’s a problem because it’s mental gymnastics and cope

            • #68966
              Anonymous
              Guest

              why ?

          • #68967
            Dirk
            Guest

            Because it’s rude to paste a novel on a discussion board, where you’re actually meant to talk to others in your own words

            • #68968
              Anonymous
              Guest

              OP asked a question, I answered OP

              I don’t see the problem

              If he has further questions I will be glad to answer them

              • #68969
                Dirk
                Guest

                I have a question, how do you cope with the fact that Charles Taze Russell was a known liar and huckster?

                • #68970
                  Anonymous
                  Guest

                  In 1904 Mr. K. B. Stoner noticed an unusual plant growing in his garden in Fincastle, Virginia. It turned out to be wheat of an uncommon kind. The plant had 142 stalks and each bore a head of fully matured wheat. In 1906 he named it “Miracle Wheat.” Eventually others obtained and grew it, enjoying extraordinary yields. In fact, Miracle Wheat won prizes at several fairs. C. T. Russell was very interested in anything related to the Biblical predictions that “the desert shall rejoice, and blossom as the rose” and “the earth shall yield her increase.” (Isa. 35:1; Ezek. 34:27, AV) On November 23, 1907, H. A. Miller, Assistant Agriculturalist of the United States Government, filed in the Department of Agriculture a report commending this wheat grown by Mr. Stoner. Throughout the country the public press took note of the report. C. T. Russell’s attention was drawn to it, and so in Zion’s Watch Tower of March 15, 1908, on page 86, he published some press comments and extracts from the government report. Then, in conclusion, he commented: “If this account be but one-half true it testifies afresh to God’s ability to provide things needful for the ‘times of restitution of all things which God hath spoken by the mouth of all the holy prophets since the world began.’—Acts 3:19-21.”

                • #68971
                  Anonymous
                  Guest

                  Mr. Stoner was not a Bible Student or an associate of C. T. Russell, and neither were various other persons who experimented with Miracle Wheat. In 1911, however, Watch Tower readers J. A. Bohnet of Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, and Samuel J. Fleming of Wabash, Indiana, presented to the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society the aggregate of about thirty bushels of this wheat, proposing that it be sold for one dollar per pound and that all the proceeds be received by the Society as a donation from them, to be used in its religious work. The wheat was received and sent out by the Society and the gross receipts from it amounted to about $1,800. Russell himself did not get a penny of this money. He merely published a statement in The Watch Tower to the effect that the wheat had been contributed and could be obtained for a dollar a pound. The Society itself made no claim for the wheat on its own knowledge and the money received went as a donation into Christian missionary work. When others criticized this sale, all who had contributed were informed that if they were dissatisfied their money would be returned. In fact, the identical money received for the wheat was held for a year for that purpose. But not one person asked for a refund. The conduct of sis Russell and the Society in connection with Miracle Wheat was completely open and aboveboard.

                  Because Charles Taze Russell taught the truth from God’s Word, he was hated and maligned, often by the religious clergy. But then, Christians of modern times expect such treatment, for Jesus and his apostles were dealt with similarly by religious opposers.—Luke 7:34.

                  • #68983
                    Dirk
                    Guest

                    Russell claimed to derive his teachings from the Greek while he knew no Greek, as proven in court

              • #68982
                Anonymous
                Guest

                Is there a more concise explanation? I’m having trouble wrapping my head around everything. Is it about how God could know but chooses not to so that we can do whatever we want?

                • #69060
                  Anonymous
                  Guest

                  God has the capacity to be omniscient. He can CHOSE not to use this capacity. Why ? Again, because he gave us free will and so he is bound to respect this gift.
                  But there are still numerous instances of him using his omniscience.

              • #69059
                Anonymous
                Guest

                >I answered OP
                No, you didn’t. By virtue of copying and pasting, you made some other person answer in your place.

      • #68984
        Anonymous
        Guest

        Thus, the invitations and opportunities to receive benefits and everlasting blessings set before all men by God are bona fide. (Mt 21:22; Jas 1:5, 6) He can in all sincerity urge men to ‘turn back from transgression and keep living,’ as he did with the people of Israel. (Eze 18:23, 30-32; compare Jer 29:11, 12.) Logically, he could not do this if he foreknew that they were individually destined to die in wickedness. (Compare Ac 17:30, 31; 1Ti 2:3, 4.) As Jehovah told Israel: “Nor said I to the seed of Jacob, ‘Seek me simply for nothing, you people.’ I am Jehovah, speaking what is righteous, telling what is upright. . . . Turn to me and be saved, all you at the ends of the earth.”—Isa 45:19-22.

        In a similar vein, the apostle Peter writes: “Jehovah is not slow respecting his promise [of the coming day of reckoning], as some people consider slowness, but he is patient with you because he does not desire any to be destroyed but desires all to attain to repentance.” (2Pe 3:9) If God already foreknew and foreordained millenniums in advance precisely which individuals would receive eternal salvation and which individuals would receive eternal destruction, it may well be asked how meaningful such ‘patience’ of God could be and how genuine his desire could be that ‘all attain to repentance.’ The inspired apostle John wrote that “God is love,” and the apostle Paul states that love “hopes all things.” (1Jo 4:8; 1Co 13:4, 7) It is in harmony with this outstanding, divine quality that God should exercise a genuinely open, kindly attitude toward all persons, he being desirous of their gaining salvation, until they prove themselves unworthy, beyond hope. (Compare 2Pe 3:9; Heb 6:4-12.) Thus, the apostle Paul speaks of “the kindly quality of God [that] is trying to lead you to repentance.”—Ro 2:4-6.

        Finally if, by God’s foreknowledge, the opportunity to receive the benefits of Christ Jesus’ ransom sacrifice were already irrevocably sealed off from some, perhaps for millions of individuals, even before their birth, so that such ones could never prove worthy, it could not truly be said that the ransom was made available to all men. (2Co 5:14, 15; 1Ti 2:5, 6; Heb 2:9) The impartiality of God is clearly no mere figure of speech. “In every nation the man that fears [God] and works righteousness is acceptable to him.” (Ac 10:34, 35; De 10:17; Ro 2:11) The option is actually and genuinely open to all men “to seek God, if they might grope for him and really find him, although, in fact, he is not far off from each one of us.” (Ac 17:26, 27) There is no empty hope or hollow promise set forth, therefore, in the divine exhortation at the end of the book of Revelation inviting: “Let anyone hearing say: ‘Come!’ And let anyone thirsting come; let anyone that wishes take life’s water free.”—Re 22:17.

        God doesn’t exist.

        Does free will exist? Don’t know, but who cares. You still have to make decisions in your life, that’s the important thing.

    • #68959
      Anonymous
      Guest

      Thus, the invitations and opportunities to receive benefits and everlasting blessings set before all men by God are bona fide. (Mt 21:22; Jas 1:5, 6) He can in all sincerity urge men to ‘turn back from transgression and keep living,’ as he did with the people of Israel. (Eze 18:23, 30-32; compare Jer 29:11, 12.) Logically, he could not do this if he foreknew that they were individually destined to die in wickedness. (Compare Ac 17:30, 31; 1Ti 2:3, 4.) As Jehovah told Israel: “Nor said I to the seed of Jacob, ‘Seek me simply for nothing, you people.’ I am Jehovah, speaking what is righteous, telling what is upright. . . . Turn to me and be saved, all you at the ends of the earth.”—Isa 45:19-22.

    • #68960
      Anonymous
      Guest

      In a similar vein, the apostle Peter writes: “Jehovah is not slow respecting his promise [of the coming day of reckoning], as some people consider slowness, but he is patient with you because he does not desire any to be destroyed but desires all to attain to repentance.” (2Pe 3:9) If God already foreknew and foreordained millenniums in advance precisely which individuals would receive eternal salvation and which individuals would receive eternal destruction, it may well be asked how meaningful such ‘patience’ of God could be and how genuine his desire could be that ‘all attain to repentance.’ The inspired apostle John wrote that “God is love,” and the apostle Paul states that love “hopes all things.” (1Jo 4:8; 1Co 13:4, 7) It is in harmony with this outstanding, divine quality that God should exercise a genuinely open, kindly attitude toward all persons, he being desirous of their gaining salvation, until they prove themselves unworthy, beyond hope. (Compare 2Pe 3:9; Heb 6:4-12.) Thus, the apostle Paul speaks of “the kindly quality of God [that] is trying to lead you to repentance.”—Ro 2:4-6.

    • #68961
      Anonymous
      Guest

      Finally if, by God’s foreknowledge, the opportunity to receive the benefits of Christ Jesus’ ransom sacrifice were already irrevocably sealed off from some, perhaps for millions of individuals, even before their birth, so that such ones could never prove worthy, it could not truly be said that the ransom was made available to all men. (2Co 5:14, 15; 1Ti 2:5, 6; Heb 2:9) The impartiality of God is clearly no mere figure of speech. “In every nation the man that fears [God] and works righteousness is acceptable to him.” (Ac 10:34, 35; De 10:17; Ro 2:11) The option is actually and genuinely open to all men “to seek God, if they might grope for him and really find him, although, in fact, he is not far off from each one of us.” (Ac 17:26, 27) There is no empty hope or hollow promise set forth, therefore, in the divine exhortation at the end of the book of Revelation inviting: “Let anyone hearing say: ‘Come!’ And let anyone thirsting come; let anyone that wishes take life’s water free.”—Re 22:17.

    • #68962
      Dirk
      Guest

      Divine foreknowledge does not necessitate meticulous divine determinism. If I were to freely choose X instead of Y, God would have omnisciently foreknown my free act

    • #68972
      Anonymous
      Guest

      It’s still free will even if God knows what you’re going to do.
      It’s like playing fetch with your dog. You throw the ball and know with certainty that the dog will retrieve it. Does that mean your dog does not have free will? No.

      • #68974
        Anonymous
        Guest

        So what’s the point of.. religion if he already knows you will/won’t follow it?

        • #68977
          Anonymous
          Guest

          It’s for your salvation, it’s not a "test"

          • #68980
            Anonymous
            Guest

            But God already knows who’s going to hell or not. It’s all decided.
            From his perspective we don’t have free will.

            • #68981
              Anonymous
              Guest

              If you don’t feel forced to converse w me then it’s probably because you aren’t being forced. You have agency

    • #68973
      Anonymous
      Guest

      I want to make passionate love to Lara all day long

    • #68975
      Anonymous
      Guest

      Does God knowing your decision still influence your own decision? No. Then you still have free will.

      • #68976
        Anonymous
        Guest

        Yes it does, because you can’t possibly do anything other than exactly what god knows you’re going to do
        Your future is already written, you just don’t know it

        • #68978
          Anonymous
          Guest

          Does it influence your own decision? No. Then It’s still free will.

          • #68979
            Anonymous
            Guest

            Are your parents related?

        • #69062
          Anonymous
          Guest

          […]

          your soul is outside of time, hence your free will is as well.

    • #68994
      Anonymous
      Guest

      God gave us free will knowing full well we would use it to sin. There is no contradiction here.

    • #69001
      Anonymous
      Guest

      How can you be a scrote on your own if I already know you will gargle semen?

    • #69004
      Anonymous
      Guest

      Because he’s an omnipotent being

    • #69005
      Anonymous
      Guest

      Does god have foreknowledge of all the children the JWs molest?

      • #69008
        Anonymous
        Guest

        not a witness but all institutions that confer power over children or old people attract people who wallow in sadism. the more feeble they are, the more they enjoy inflicting their neuroses on those who can’t fight back.
        this applies to schools, paramilitaries, political parties, religious institutions, bla bla.
        the question isn’t one of any specific religion, it’s why so many regress so far when in authority

        • #69009
          Anonymous
          Guest

          >it’s why so many regress so far when in authority
          I believe it’s the opposite, and that sick fucks seek positions of power where they have intimate opportunities and are seen as figureheads over people they would make their victims. being a priest doesn’t make you a pedo, pedos seek out priestly and other positions so they can do their thing

    • #69016
      Anonymous
      Guest

      Free will is not a coherent concept.
      An action is either random or determined.

      When you make a choice, did you do it for a reason? Or pick at random?
      It doesn’t matter which, neither is free will.

      Present a 3rd alternative, or give up the position

    • #69018
      Anonymous
      Guest

      They didnt think that far ahead. Stop asking questions.

      • #69019
        Anonymous
        Guest

        True

    • #69021
      Anonymous
      Guest

      if i time traveler sees someones death in the future did he make it happen?

      • #69022
        Anonymous
        Guest

        >if
        >a time traveler

      • #69023
        Anonymous
        Guest

        Is this time traveler omnipotent and supposedly responsible for all creation?

      • #69024
        Anonymous
        Guest

        assuming he created the entire world before the fact, but already knew all facts
        yes

        what’s with the scrotebrained analogies? you don’t need an analogy to describe the situation we are talking about, it’s precise
        unless you want to argue for some heretical take on scripture

    • #69025
      Anonymous
      Guest

      God forgets what every human decision will be during the light, but remembers it in the dark.

    • #69029
      Anonymous
      Guest

      Because we chose to make those decisions

      • #69030
        Anonymous
        Guest

        When you make a choice, did you do it for reasons?
        If so, it’s determined.

        • #69032
          Anonymous
          Guest

          Not how it works sorry

          • #69033
            Anonymous
            Guest

            A bold claim!

            Walk me through how the alternative is even coherent.
            Don’t just assert it.

            • #69035
              Anonymous
              Guest

              No

              • #69038
                Anonymous
                Guest

                It’s embarrassing to you can’t form rudimentary arguments, for something that should be integral to your worldview.

                • #69041
                  Anonymous
                  Guest

                  It’s embarrassing how you can’t write proper english

                  • #69042
                    Anonymous
                    Guest

                    Keep doding lmao

    • #69034
      Anonymous
      Guest

      God is only aware of what we will do woke af on his knowledge of us, we still fundamentally make the decision. As an analogy, we don’t say that a market is unfree because an analyst can predict how it is going to behave with perfect accuracy.

      • #69037
        Anonymous
        Guest

        >As an analogy, we don’t say that a market is unfree because an analyst can predict how it is going to behave with perfect accuracy.
        You are right. We don’t use that word about a thing that does not exist, we may have, though. Why would you appeal to an non-existent intuition on how to describe non-existent things?

        Also. Did the analyst build the market and everyone using it? Always with these shitty analogies that don’t even carry the main points.

    • #69049
      Anonymous
      Guest

      […]

      >it’s evidence because… IT JUST IS OK?

    • #69052
      Anonymous
      Guest
    • #69055
      Anonymous
      Guest

      How can we have free will if physics is deterministic?

      Fuck this thread, bunch of hippies, the lot of ya.

    • #69057
      Anonymous
      Guest

      How can we have free will if people already know what the weather is gonna be?

    • #69058
      Anonymous
      Guest

      god doesn’t exist
      all religions are man made

    • #69063
      Anonymous
      Guest

      Bump

    • #69064
      Anonymous
      Guest

      Bump

    • #69065
      Anonymous
      Guest

      […]

      No, that’s you zoomers playing through Alice and getting killed by white chess pieces instead of red because you played too many zoomer games. You will never be a true woman.

      • #69066
        Anonymous
        Guest

        I have no idea what you’re talking about but two things are clear:

        1) You’re seething at what I’ve said
        2) You can’t make a counterargument

        I accept your admission of defeat.

        • #69067
          Anonymous
          Guest

          Nope. The opposite is true.

          • #69068
            Anonymous
            Guest

            Lmao no it isn’t.

            I accept your admission of defeat.

            • #69069
              Anonymous
              Guest

              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ih_RcmlFEzo&t=1270s
              It’s so funny to you that why it is happening to you.

              • #69071
                Anonymous
                Guest

                I don’t know what you’re posting. I’m not watching that. That has no relevance to anything.

                • #69072
                  Anonymous
                  Guest

                  It actually does, but Neither does your assumptions, presumptions, opinions, and bullshittery about God. You will know pain and suffering, you will know weakness, you will know of having nothing. And no God will save you. Will He?

                  • #69073
                    Anonymous
                    Guest

                    God doesn’t exist.

                  • #69074
                    Anonymous
                    Guest

                    >christkek gets upset at somebody
                    >threatens them with some part of the christkek dogma
                    lel, zero self awareness

    • #69070
      Anonymous
      Guest

      I never understood where the contradiction lies. Knowing is different from exercising control. If you were someone I know well, like a close friend or something, I could probably predict your reaction to a lot of things. That wouldn’t mean I can control your mind, would it?

    • #69075
      Anonymous
      Guest

      You have different choices, God doesn’t force you to take anyone of them. That’s free will.
      God already knowing what you will choose is irrelevant here.
      You could feasibly make your choices using a random number generator and assigning each number to a different option. Even if after you generating the random number you effectively know the result, that doesn’t mean that it was only possible for that result to be generated and no other.

Viewing 28 reply threads
  • You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
startno id