Are technological leaps just a matter of luck?

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    • #193281
      Anonymous
      Guest

      Are technological leaps just a matter of luck? Was there anything preventing the Romans from inventing the combustion engine?

    • #193282
      Anonymous
      Guest

      It’s obviously iron and population /thread
      Any post below is spam

    • #193283
      Anonymous
      Guest

      A better understanding of metallurgy and thermodynamics for one.

    • #193284
      Anonymous
      Guest

      >Are technological leaps just a matter of luck?
      only to some level
      >Was there anything preventing the Romans from inventing the combustion engine?
      lack of "technological consciousness" which is present today with multiple state and private structures intentionally aiming for technological advance

      • #193285
        Anonymous
        Guest

        Wow anything below the first post is retards

        • #193288
          Anonymous
          Guest

          applies to you

        • #193338
          Anonymous
          Guest

          You’re the retard here you fucking phonespamming tranny.

          • #193350
            Anonymous
            Guest

            Literal tranny retard.

    • #193286
      Anonymous
      Guest

      They pretty much had steam locomotion.

    • #193287
      Anonymous
      Guest

      Metallurgy. It took until the Renaissance until metal working became complex enough to create the parts needed for a real combustion engine. Gears and other parts have to be made within a fraction of a millimeter to work properly and efficiently.

      • #193294
        Anonymous
        Guest

        the antikythera mechanism shows they could do that with bronze at least, maybe they could have done the leap with iron

        • #193301
          Anonymous
          Guest

          Bronze expands and contracts too much with temperature

          • #193303
            Anonymous
            Guest

            yes but the know how to make millimetric adjustments was there, that’s why i specified "If they could have done the leap"

            • #193330
              Anonymous
              Guest

              hmm
              perhaps
              they did have a standardized production of hydraulic valves and hydraulic pumps, but their sections were usually brass, and were not forced to handle above 5-10 atmospheric pressures
              so in order to make sections for steam pressure they would require a lot larger pieces for the sheer mass of the material to be enough to mitigate that it is not blast furnace steel
              so imagine massive machinery with sections the size of large rooms, basically a neighborhood sized machine
              doable, but with like, 100 000 slaves working on it for years

              • #193331
                Anonymous
                Guest

                this is a somewhat larger mining hydraulic pump from the 1st century AD, and it would still be miniscule for that

              • #193332
                Anonymous
                Guest

                this is a somewhat larger mining hydraulic pump from the 1st century AD, and it would still be miniscule for that

                while this piece is entirely made out of brass, not a single bronze or copper part

              • #193333
                Anonymous
                Guest

                this is a somewhat larger mining hydraulic pump from the 1st century AD, and it would still be miniscule for that

                […]

                while this piece is entirely made out of brass, not a single bronze or copper part

                beautiful pieces of archeology, thanks for posting

              • #193336
                Anonymous
                Guest

                this is a somewhat larger mining hydraulic pump from the 1st century AD, and it would still be miniscule for that

                […]

                while this piece is entirely made out of brass, not a single bronze or copper part

                Quick reminder that Romans literally had fucking boiler rooms,
                and that you could basically pick any random irrelevant Roman colony in Gaul, and that colony will most likely have more pipeline within its walls than the entirety of fucking Han China combined during the early Principate period.

                • #193337
                  Anonymous
                  Guest

                  forgot pic because of Eurocentrism taking me over, sorry

                • #193342
                  Anonymous
                  Guest

                  >rometards poisoning themselves to death with lead in their drinking water
                  Kek, no wonder the germanic middle ages were so massively better and more advanced.

                  • #193343
                    Anonymous
                    Guest

                    that is a myth you retard
                    modern lead pipes til the 90s were poisonous because the water there was still and pressurized, til opened by faucet ofc

                    ancient lead pipes were not heavily pressurized, they had flowing or still water with just one to few atmospheric pressures depending on how high the initial aquaduct was, only valves set the going and stopping of it

                    the lead poisoning the Romans got was from fucking flavoring their food with it and using it as powder for makeup and other idiotic shit like that,

                    not pipelines, in fact, their lead pipes would be sedented by minerals and watercress, so there would be a layer of it between the water and the lead within weeks

                    • #193346
                      Anonymous
                      Guest

                      > with just one to few atmospheric pressures depending on how high the initial aquaduct was

                      and because the aqueducts were high enough and provided enough velocity for the water drop in the pipes, the Romans could actually construct pipelines upwards, meaning they had running water in upper fucking floors,

                      which is fucking unheard of literally anywhere else, at any time, til like the 1840s.

                • #193344
                  Anonymous
                  Guest

                  forgot pic because of Eurocentrism taking me over, sorry

                  QRD on Roman boiler rooms and pipelines?

                  • #193347
                    Anonymous
                    Guest

                    They made massive containers that they heated up, then you had hot, often even sterilized water

                    they also had steam coming out of valves and opened endings like a massive kettle pot, but they did not have the idea to try and use brass or bronze to make anything more than funny contraptions from it

                    • #193348
                      Anonymous
                      Guest

                      these boilers would be connected to hydraulic valves and faucets, made out of bronze and brass, like these

                • #193349
                  Anonymous
                  Guest

                  There is a random street in Hercunaleum that they unearthed and it had 4 pipelines, one for each purpose, since they had different fucking pressures and temperatures lol

        • #193305
          Anonymous
          Guest

          The antikythera mechanism is a simple contraption compared to steam engines. The thickness of the gears are about 1mm, doesn’t sound bad but this is utterly horrible, the generally accepted measurement is the thou when designing gears and engine parts which is 0.025mm which is 40 times smaller than the gears. For acceptable use in steam engines the measurements used for the acceptable range of deviation in gears was 1/5th of a thou. 0.005mm. Ancient people were quite literally incapable of calibrating to such a small measurement.

    • #193289
      Anonymous
      Guest

      Cumbustion no? But they had something on about steam power. They knew about steam power, I’m not a metalurgist can some one check is Roman iron could withstand 15psi? If so they could make a low pressure steam engine given the knowlage

      • #193290
        Anonymous
        Guest

        Anyone can make steam engines retard it’s just iron wasn’t available

      • #193292
        Anonymous
        Guest

        Not any large working one. Parts have to be miniscule to work properly, which the Roman didn’t have the ability to create.

        • #193293
          Anonymous
          Guest

          It did retard, they had all kinds of clocks and precise devices, it’s because Italy has no iron

          • #193295
            Anonymous
            Guest

            italy has iron, especially in tuscany, though+ the empire expanded outside italy

            • #193296
              Anonymous
              Guest

              Which wasn’t populated

              • #193299
                Anonymous
                Guest

                ?
                tuscany and the areas outside the empire were populated

                • #193300
                  Anonymous
                  Guest

                  Elbe has not even produced enough iron to give every Roman a sword. It’s useless.

                  • #193302
                    Anonymous
                    Guest

                    Most iron was from Iberia, Anatolia, Balkans and Alps

                    • #193304
                      Anonymous
                      Guest

                      That’s less than a thousand times less than it is today. It’s irrelevant. They weren’t populated.

                      • #193306
                        Anonymous
                        Guest

                        It’s far more than any other state back then and the population was larger too. There was no lack of metal

                      • #193308
                        Anonymous
                        Guest

                        >There was no lack of metal
                        There was per your own stats you mindless shitposter.

                      • #193309
                        Anonymous
                        Guest

                        it’s 80k tons per year which is far more than other state back then., how is that a lack of metal when discussing preindustrial states you retarded subhuman shitstain?

                      • #193311
                        Anonymous
                        Guest

                        Literal retardation response. You realize that wouldn’t even provide a 10kg sword to their entire army.

                      • #193312
                        Anonymous
                        Guest

                        >sword
                        >10kg
                        histlet is obvious

                      • #193313
                        Anonymous
                        Guest

                        >a 10kg sword
                        >which has to get produced annually because after one year swords decay
                        good lord you are retarded as shit

                      • #193314
                        Anonymous
                        Guest

                        It wouldn’t even do it for ten years. 80kt is a useless amount.

                      • #193317
                        Anonymous
                        Guest

                        1 gladius=1 kg ca.
                        total roman soldiers: 400-500.000
                        assuming 5 to 10% of swords were damaged/broken each year and were not recycled (which they were mostly, so real number is even lower)= 20 to 50k new swords needed per year
                        total production= 8.250.000 kg ca. per year
                        surplus iron= around 8.200.000 kg

                        last (you) for (you) baiting retard

                      • #193319
                        Anonymous
                        Guest

                        Literal retard you could not even build a large bridge

                      • #193320
                        Anonymous
                        Guest

                        those were made with lead you stupid fuck

                      • #193322
                        Anonymous
                        Guest

                        Literal fucking retard just throwing out copes and retardation of a pathetically small iron supply
                        Ignoring that Rome literally has a thousand times less iron than today

                      • #193323
                        Anonymous
                        Guest

                        cope and sneed tranny you will never be a real man

                      • #193327
                        Anonymous
                        Guest

                        Literal tranny

                        >you could not even build a large bridge
                        lolwut

                        Literal retard

                      • #193328
                        Anonymous
                        Guest

                        don’t you have anything better to do than baiting?

                      • #193329
                        Anonymous
                        Guest

                        It takes zero effort

                      • #193324
                        Anonymous
                        Guest

                        >you could not even build a large bridge
                        lolwut

                      • #193315
                        Anonymous
                        Guest

                        >a 10kg sword
                        a 10kg sword
                        >a 10kg sword
                        a 10kg sword
                        >a 10kg sword
                        a 10kg sword
                        >a 10kg sword
                        a 10kg sword
                        >a 10kg sword
                        a 10kg sword

                      • #193316
                        Anonymous
                        Guest

                        Literal retard it could be anything 10kg
                        It could be 3 3kg swords
                        Don’t be autism about rounding generally phrased examples of numbers

                      • #193318
                        Anonymous
                        Guest

                        have a nice day tranny

                      • #193321
                        Anonymous
                        Guest

                        >is a obese tranny
                        >has autism
                        >calls me tranny

                      • #193325
                        Anonymous
                        Guest

                        Anon a typical LONGSWORD weighs less than 1,5kg.
                        A medieval arming sword weighs less than 1kg, and a gladius would have been even lighter.

                      • #193310
                        Anonymous
                        Guest

                        I can’t tell if you’re "not enough iron argument" is top tier bait or you are just a schizo. The steam engine didn’t even start as made fully of iron, they were first used to pp water out of coal mines because although the first steam engines were hilariously inefficient, throwing coal at the problem was still cheaper than paying some wagies to pump water out of the mines all day. If anything the fact that the Roman Empire had so much forest and didn’t have to really so heavily on Coal as early modern Britain did is the reason why it didn’t develop a working steam engine ( a tennis ball that rotates doesn’t count, only things actually used to power something) and then an internal combustion engine.

    • #193291
      Anonymous
      Guest

      They didn’t have very good metalwork. Infact the gauls were better blacksmiths then they were, the only reason Rome was able to smash them was due to their lack of team work until the very end.

    • #193297
      Anonymous
      Guest

      the greeks had studied hydraulics and pneumatics and had managed to come up with quite interesting contraptions (including at least one machine which could open the doors of a temple i.e. do major "physical" work), i think the fact that the hydraulic powered contraptions they had (hierapolis sawmill, barbegal mills, ianiculum mills, moselles mills, tidal mills, reverse-overshot wheels etc.) + mass of slaves were the main reason why neither greeks nor romans never bothered to invest more on steam engines

    • #193298
      Anonymous
      Guest

      >Was there anything preventing the Romans from inventing the combustion engine?
      the ability to make steel in the amount and quality necessary for them to be anything but a novelty, as well as a lack of understanding of petroleum refining

    • #193307
      Anonymous
      Guest

      Technology is useless without the economic backing to utilize it and mass produce it.
      Even if the Romans had invented a prototype of a combustion engine (which they couldn’t), they wouldn’t have had an "industrial revolution" due to a complete lack of the economic thought and social conditions that enabled it.

      Real life is more complicated than a videogame tech tree. Technology per se is useless. In the Middle Ages they had the same construction techniques and knowledge of architecture as the Romans, if they wanted to build a huge monument they could do it, thus cathedrals, but they didn’t have developed urban economies, that’s why they didn’t make rows of apartment buildings in their cities like ancient Rome had.

    • #193334
      Anonymous
      Guest

      there wasn’t a pressure for it.

      • #193345
        Anonymous
        Guest

        >overpopulation in the later medieval period
        Didn’t it take like 3 centuries for most places to reach early 14th century populations again?

    • #193335
      Anonymous
      Guest

      They already were edging on steam engines in Rome, but why formally invent industry when you have an endless supply of perfectly good slaves?

    • #193339
      Anonymous
      Guest

      >Are technological leaps just a matter of luck?
      Yes. But "luck" as you say it is nothing but a dismissive way to mean Providence.
      Literally see the greek fire randomly appearing out of nowhere, to help turn the tables on the Moslems, but no gunpowder even though they apparently had many of the same ingredients. Chinese would come up with gunpowder and first barely usable weapons with it. By the time their gunpowder became known to the Western world byzantines had grown perfidious and theefore lost not only their capital to more righteous latins. Their greek fire was also taken from them so they could not employ it again even if they by chance amassed the resources for it. The greeks then played no role in the development of true firearms and cannon that ultimately spelled their doom. Looks like God favored turkish infidels over hereticals byzantines.

    • #193340
      Anonymous
      Guest

      >Are technological leaps just a matter of luck?

      No, technological leaps are a matter of white superiority, Jared Diamond soicucks need to go back to /int/

      • #193341
        Anonymous
        Guest

        Problem, Jared diamond?

    • #193351
      Anonymous
      Guest

      I sometimes like to imagine what would happen if I could go back in time and give Julian guns, and maybe a printing press.

      • #193352
        Anonymous
        Guest

        Hopefully you’d have a nice day for giving a shit about that incompetent retard. Christ almighty Julian is the most overrated fucker ever.

      • #193353
        Anonymous
        Guest

        No you should give Elagabalus guns and mass media.

    • #193354
      Anonymous
      Guest

      >Are technological leaps just a matter of luck?
      yep

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