Anyone else feel like there was an unstated subtext to the character of Nazi Germany?

Home Forums General & off-topic Anyone else feel like there was an unstated subtext to the character of Nazi Germany?

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    • #63498
      Anonymous
      Guest

      Anyone else feel like there was an unstated subtext to the character of Nazi Germany that went beyond, even against, their overtly stated goals for society, the muh volkisch people community and nation building kind of stuff? A kind of, dare I say it, ecstatic death cult that wanted to annihilate more than anything, and grew from a constant (perhaps understandable) feeling of disgust at the world and the other humans inhabiting it.

    • #63499
      Anonymous
      Guest

      No, not really

    • #63500
      Anonymous
      Guest

      There were some death cult-ish aspects in the fascist/natsoc obsession with military life and war and the idolization of ”heroic death” in a way that goes above the usual patriotic myths, but I can’t really grip the thing you are proposing.

      • #63515
        Anonymous
        Guest

        I get what OP is saying. Consider for example how no other society in human history (that I am aware of) would ever have deployed SS Dirlewanger. And remember how Hitler gave the Nero order in the end. The Nazi leadership really felt like that was the Götterdämmerung. I think what OP is describing came as a result of the end of the war. In just few years Germany had transformed from a civilian economy to using Volksturm units.

        • #63516
          Anonymous
          Guest

          >Consider for example how no other society in human history (that I am aware of) would ever have deployed SS Dirlewanger.
          you are a scrotebrain
          pic related, not even a penal unit but the freaking king
          the soviets put equivalent units in the field on the east front and also conducted scorched earth tactics

          > Group of fanatical idealists cutting out what they regard as the cancer on humanity’s soul.
          Yep. That’s your typical death cult stuff here.

          A death cult is like jonestown, where the aim actually is suicide. The nazis never aimed at killing themselves

          • #63537
            Anonymous
            Guest

            I was not aware of ancient Assyrians deliberately forming military units from convicts and mental asylum patients. And here is the key difference between just brutality and the nazis. Dirlewanger brigade was more than happy to attack their allies in the absence of enemies. War was a method to achieve cruelty to them, and not the other way around. This was evidently clear when they attacked hospitals treating German soldiers. The geopolitical aims of the reich were irrelevant to them.

            • #63538
              Anonymous
              Guest

              >I was not aware of ancient Assyrians deliberately forming military units from convicts and mental asylum patients
              The Assyrians didn’t have a concept of mental illness you massive freaking scrotebrain. They wouldn’t see the difference between Dirlewanger and any other man who is capable of carrying out a plan. The Dirlewanger Brigade and other "anti-partisan" efforts were essentially performing this

              >Consider for example how no other society in human history (that I am aware of) would ever have deployed SS Dirlewanger.
              you are a scrotebrain
              pic related, not even a penal unit but the freaking king
              the soviets put equivalent units in the field on the east front and also conducted scorched earth tactics
              […]
              A death cult is like jonestown, where the aim actually is suicide. The nazis never aimed at killing themselves

              across Eastern Europe, excessive cruelty meant to cow the rest of the population into compliance. Inhuman brutality has always had its use to groups that are willing to use it.

              • #63539
                Anonymous
                Guest

                >Assyrians didn’t have a concept of mental illness
                Great, so you admit that SS Dirlewanger was a unique product of the Third Reich.
                I love how you completely ignored my larger point, and proceeded to seethe and shit yourself instead.

                • #63542
                  Anonymous
                  Guest

                  He carried out the aims of the Reich by being an amoral psychopath, which he was. If you can’t understand this then you’re scrotebrained. But the aims of the Reich were thought up by people who were just amoral, just like the Assyrians were when they skinned their enemies. I’m sure you can imagine that some undocumented Assyrians flayer whose name and life is lost to history could have also been what we would call a psychopath, which by your argument is what’s missing from Assyria.

                  • #63544
                    Anonymous
                    Guest

                    You’re so freaking stupid holy shit. How did killing German soldiers in a hospital help the geopolitical goals of Germany?

        • #63528
          Anonymous
          Guest

          >Consider for example how no other society in human history (that I am aware of) would ever have deployed SS Dirlewanger.
          For most of human history warfare has mainly consisted of war bands ravaging the enemy’s territory, burning crops, plundering and massacring villages etc.

    • #63501
      Anonymous
      Guest

      Read Miguel Serrano and you’ll understand

    • #63502
      Anonymous
      Guest

      Something like that, but I don’t think there’s a satisfactory explanation yet for this phenomenon. It’s like what Zizek said about the difference with Stalinism being that gulag inmates would have to write birthday letters to Stalin, which was crazy, but you couldn’t imagine the Nazis forcing garden gnomes to do that in concentration camps. The garden gnomes were guilty for "who they were" on the basis of their biology, they didn’t require the garden gnomes confess to their crimes before killing them.

      Also the industrialized nature of it. Moishe Postone described the Nazi "revolution" as a short-circuited anti-capitalism. People work in factories and produce goods which have concrete "use values" that fill a particular want or need, but are split off from and sold back to people with an abstract exchange value (price tag). The Nazi revolt then targeted this "evil" and sinister abstract dimension of speculation, finance, and money vs. "healthy" and "natural" productive labor (and industry and technology), but all of this was also biologized, so you get industrial death factories employed in the service of destroying the Nazis’ personification of abstract forces, represented by the garden gnomes.

      And this was done by tattooing garden gnomes with numbers, shaving their heads, turning them into abstractions, and then eradicating them and processing what was left of them (clothes, gold teeth, hair, etc.) The Nazis believed that by doing this, they were saving the world from evil. If you think about it that way, the Nazis "lost the war" against the Allies. But what they were "at war" with was abstraction, which includes things like… abstract reasoning or thought and just negating the whole Enlightenment. It’s like a black void. You couldn’t expect mercy from them.

      There was a heavily irrational quality to this kind of thing. And they succeeded in murdering six million garden gnomes and more or less destroying the European gnomish culture.

      https://youtu.be/eVbShUW6QBM

    • #63504
      Anonymous
      Guest

      Yeah, they were really butthurt about losing the first world war. It’s a sense of humiliation and a desperation to prove themselves at any cost.

    • #63505
      Anonymous
      Guest

      It wasn’t subtext, but rather a classic example of structural convergence of extreme mindset. When you decide to battle against the entire world, your stated aims no longer matter, and self-destruction is the only option left, you have reached a point of no return.

      • #63506
        Anonymous
        Guest

        So much bullshit on this thread.

        >. When you decide to battle against the entire world,
        Sure, let’s all pretend that they didn’t have allies

        National Socialism was an answer to Nihilism and the Death of God, It was mostly woke af around Nietzsche’s philosophy.

        • #63507
          Anonymous
          Guest

          > let’s all pretend that they didn’t have allies
          They would turn against them in the same way that Hitler turned against Stalin.

          • #63508
            Anonymous
            Guest

            Nah, With the Exception of Mussolini, Most of them didn’t have any Geopolitical or Ideological issues with the Germans.

        • #63541
          Anonymous
          Guest

          Germany’s allies in Europe were a joke. They started a war that the major European powers warned them not to start, then got freaking wrecked. They had no one to blame but themselves.

    • #63509
      Anonymous
      Guest

      >ecstatic death cult that wanted to annihilate more than anything
      There’s been an element of that in basically all Germanic militaries ever. It wasn’t an element unique to Nazism.

      I mean, the "Totenkopf" skull and crossbones symbol the SS used had been used by the Prussian military since the early 19th century.

      • #63510
        Anonymous
        Guest

        >I mean, the "Totenkopf" skull and crossbones symbol the SS used had been used by the Prussian military since the early 19th century.
        Which means
        >According to a writing by Reichsführer-SS Heinrich Himmler, the Totenkopf had the following meaning:

        >The Skull is the reminder that you shall always be willing to put your self at stake for the life of the whole community.[13]
        The same meaning that it always had.

        I’m so weary of the Shills on this board.

    • #63514
      Anonymous
      Guest

      I’ve heard it was an art project on a national level.

      like picture a flashmob except it’s also a mass shooting to "make a statement" or something.

      and really that statement is one of utter and complete despair and irrational range and anger being lashed out at popular cultural enemies.

      then again I’m also partial to the depiction of hitler’s conception in "From Hell"

    • #63517
      Anonymous
      Guest

      […]

      >Japan.
      Also had the death cultic character but not in the same all-encompassing way of Nazi Germany where it reached so far into civilian life. They had an Emperor who was supposed to be above the military dictatorship in authority. Kids in school weren’t taught to revere Tojo.

      >Consider for example how no other society in human history (that I am aware of) would ever have deployed SS Dirlewanger.
      you are a scrotebrain
      pic related, not even a penal unit but the freaking king
      the soviets put equivalent units in the field on the east front and also conducted scorched earth tactics
      […]
      A death cult is like jonestown, where the aim actually is suicide. The nazis never aimed at killing themselves

      The fact that you’re pointing to something from ancient history works against your point. A modern state in Christian Europe acting like ancient pagans, and armed with weaponry that savage ancients couldn’t even have imagined, and inviting all the rest of the world, especially much better armed and powerful opponents, to join in the slaughter. Surreal.

      • #63519
        Anonymous
        Guest

        >>Consider for example how no other society in human history (that I am aware of) would ever have deployed SS Dirlewanger.
        >no other society in human history (that I am aware of) would ever have deployed SS Dirlewanger.
        >no other society in human history would ever have deployed SS Dirlewanger.
        You make a claim (no society in human history was so cruel)
        I disprove your claim (ashurbanipal)
        Now you are moving the goalposts
        In mexico, a very catholic and christian country, the (christian, at least in name) cartels reign with a terror that equals or even passes that of the dirlewanger brigade. Atrocities happen in every conflict, even freaking chimpanzees are capable of committing war crimes.
        You’re a scrotebrain, making claims which are moronic and when I confront you with your scrotebraination. You do not know what a death cult is, nor do you have any knowledge of the axis beyond a surface understanding gleamed from history channel docus and hollywood movies.

        Almost. The actual goal of the Nazis was to get all races to kill each other until only one (presumed to be the strongest) remains to inherit the Earth. They viewed this as an improvement to the human gene pool and as a final solution to the problem of racism. The NSDAP was a Genocide Cult.

        >t. scrotebrain with 0 factual knowledge of the 3rd reich

        • #63521
          Anonymous
          Guest

          How the fuck Ashurbanipal wasn’t a death cult?

          • #63522
            Anonymous
            Guest

            >king slaughters his enemies because humans are cruel
            >also creator of the first great library, regards his erudition and scholarship as his most important achievement
            >literal brainlets """" How the fuck Ashurbanipal wasn’t a death cult?""""
            what are you? 18?

        • #63530
          Anonymous
          Guest

          >t. scrotebrain with 0 factual knowledge of the 3rd reich

      • #63523
        Anonymous
        Guest

        >Also had the death cultic character
        See

        […]

        >"Death cult" usually implies that they have the goal of committing national suicide.

        >Consider for example how no other society in human history (that I am aware of) would ever have deployed SS Dirlewanger.
        you are a scrotebrain
        pic related, not even a penal unit but the freaking king
        the soviets put equivalent units in the field on the east front and also conducted scorched earth tactics
        […]
        A death cult is like jonestown, where the aim actually is suicide. The nazis never aimed at killing themselves

        >A death cult is like jonestown, where the aim actually is suicide. The nazis never aimed at killing themselves

        And don’t forget

        […]

        >Oh, You’re that scrote that keeps using pics of anime girls. Go have a nice day.

        JDFI shill

    • #63518
      Anonymous
      Guest

      Almost. The actual goal of the Nazis was to get all races to kill each other until only one (presumed to be the strongest) remains to inherit the Earth. They viewed this as an improvement to the human gene pool and as a final solution to the problem of racism. The NSDAP was a Genocide Cult.

    • #63520
      Anonymous
      Guest

      Addiction to a false feeling of victory. When there’s some minority fascists can ruthlessly stomp on they feel like they’re winning. Doesn’t matter if their own situation is getting worse or they aren’t achieving political goals, as long as they’re hurting THOSE GUYS against their will and dominating them they get that victory high. It’s like a national self-esteem boosting program, they get to feel successful and powerful without the hard work of accomplishing anything.

      • #63551
        Anonymous
        Guest

        Have sex

    • #63524
      Anonymous
      Guest

      >this entire thread

      • #63525
        Anonymous
        Guest

        Ah yes, this thread on LULZ, the board that loves citing sources and trusting the experts who wrote those sources and agreeing on what sources we rely on and how to interpret them.

        • #63527
          Anonymous
          Guest

          garden gnomes are really insidious creatures, the sheer amount of passive aggressiveness and dissimulation that they possess irritate me to the core of my being, The more time I expend on this board, the more antisemitic I become.

          I can’t really expand much more on the death factory stuff. This is pretty interesting though and goes into some of the "will to power" stuff in Nazism:

          https://youtu.be/2Fe9PUFW0Uk

          There was also Nazi theorist Alfred Rosenberg whose main argument was that man lacks a soul but is guided by "intuition," and "great men" such as Hitler could inspire their followers by appealing to their intuition, like religious readers. Hitler is said to have thought Rosenberg’s ideas were silly, but they still promoted some of that stuff. They believed in a hierarchy of races and nations with the German race-nation at the top of the animal kingdom with a right to subjugate inferior races.

          It’s like an ideology of "life" and "life is for living" and enthusiasm for life, but life is seen as competitive animal struggle. I think that’s what makes it so scary. It’s the beast.

          […]
          >There was nothing bestial about the acts of the germans. Everything was cold and calculated.
          That sounds pretty bestial though, like an animal hunting its prey.

          https://youtu.be/INcW26-iyqU

          >I can’t really expand much more on the death factory stuff.
          Of course you can’t do it, It’s bullshit.
          >They believed in a hierarchy of races
          All racists do. That’s the whole meaning of it.
          >German race-nation at the top of the animal kingdom with a right to subjugate inferior races.
          There’s no German race, there was the Germanic /Nordic and the German/ Deutsch nation, and the German nation has differents racial branches with their own particular traits.
          >Each race gave its best strength. Each contributed to the German soul We Germans have a fighting spirit, a look to the horizon, the “desire to do a thing for its own sake” of the Nordic race. Another racial soul gave us our cozy old cities and our depth. Yet another racial soul gave us mastery of the magical realm of music. Yet another gave us our ability to organize, and our silent obedience. §We can not hold it against anyone if he carries a variety of racial lines, for the German soul does as well, and created out of it the immeasurable riches which it possesses above all other nations.

          >Yet another

          • #63529
            Anonymous
            Guest

            > All racists do. That’s the whole meaning of it.
            I don’t. Races are real, but not a single one is truly superior. Whites have better IQ, one of the African races can run faster, and so on. It isn’t worth chimping out on one another. Imagine if all scientists and generals hated each other. Neither one is superior, they all need to learn to cooperate. Society needs both. Diversity is a real meaning of racism!

            • #63532
              Anonymous
              Guest

              >. Whites have better IQ, one of the African races can run faster, and so on. It isn’t worth chimping out on one another. Imagine if all scientists and generals hated each other. Neither one is superior, they all need to learn to cooperate. Society needs both
              That’s pretty much the meaning of the quote from an NSDAP article that I’ve posted.

              But in the case of miscegenation, some combinations may be more destructive to our species than constructive.

              >t. scrotebrain with 0 factual knowledge of the 3rd reich

              Not an argument, and you’re either a deranged garden gnome or just a scrotebrain mutt with mediocre historical knowledge.

              • #63543
                Anonymous
                Guest

                >Not an argument
                Neither is
                >t. scrotebrain with 0 factual knowledge of the 3rd reich
                or
                >and you’re either a deranged garden gnome or just a scrotebrain mutt with mediocre historical knowledge.
                Now tell me about how the Nazi oligarchy totally wasn’t a cult that believed in social darwinism and race war, but a group of perfectly honest nationalists who loved Germany just like they said, and how they were right/wrong about everything including the inherent evil of the gnomish/German race

            • #63534
              Anonymous
              Guest

              If one race can do something better that is relevant on a greater magnitude of societal arenas, then it is superior. Whites are therefore superior to the rest.

              Running away from Hyenas is no longer relevant.

            • #63535
              Anonymous
              Guest

              https://i.imgur.com/x0wqEF1.gif

              >Society needs both. Diversity is a real meaning of racism!
              Couldn’t agree more.

    • #63531
      Anonymous
      Guest

      garden gnomed shills are getting wrecked by woke af bros aware of actual history. Great thread

      • #63533
        Anonymous
        Guest
    • #63540
      Anonymous
      Guest

      […]

      /poo/ack vague threats and quoting from Mein Kampf in the absence of any will to do as the NSDAP actually did. A pathetic misshapen stillborn of a once powerful movement.

    • #63545
      Anonymous
      Guest

      >A kind of, dare I say it, ecstatic death cult that wanted to annihilate more than anything
      They wanted to annihilate everything that is wrong with the world: communists, garden gnomes, wiggers, degenerates etc. They were disgusted by these people who were dragging down Germany and Europe not the world itself.
      You can say they were ruthless but its not like any of those people deserved mercy

      • #63547
        Anonymous
        Guest

        >“The ‘nation’ is a political expression of democracy and liberalism. We must get rid of this false conception and put in its place the conception of race, which politically is not yet used. I know well … that from a scientific point of view there is nothing like race. I, as a political figure, need a conception that allows the annihilation of the historical bases existing up to the present moment, in order to put in their place a totally new and anti-historical order, and to give it an intellectual basis … With the conception of race, National Socialism can lead its revolution and turn the world upside down.”

        — Adolf Hitler to Hermann Rauschning

    • #63546
      Anonymous
      Guest

      It’s rather hard to say, mainly because Nazism itself was a contradictory ideology guided by the thoughts and policies of disparate people. In some instances like the Nuremberg Race Laws they were "idealists," but when it comes to other matters like the treatment of Churches Nazi Germany is completely pragmatic. Some like Himmler wanted to do away with Christianity, others wanted to reform it into an Aryan religion, but the final say was to leave it alone because going after religion was too much trouble for even the Nazi Party. Alongside the ideology there was a lot of compromise going on to create and preserve the Reich.

      In my mind Nazism is a series of strong emotional pangs that are jumbled together into an ideology rather than a general political system for running a country. The existence of the Reich depended on two particularly strong feelings; the humiliation of Germany after WWI and the hatred of Communism, which of course includes the garden gnomes who were inextricably linked with Bolshevism. And this strong emotion manifested itself in the words and deeds of the Nazis, from Goebbels to those in Volksstrum, both HJs brought up in Nazi Germany and veterans who had served in the First World War and fought until the bloody end of the Second. I wouldn’t call it "disgust," or a need to annihilate the world, but again as Goebbels is supposed to have said, "if we are forced to leave this world, we will slam the door so hard that the universe will shake and the whole world will stand back in stupefaction." It was a violent, spectacular outlet for that humiliation, hatred, love of the family and Fatherland, the fear of the Soviets that had been drilled into people throughout the War. Of course there were "normal" people who just gave up when they were told to defend Germany to their last breath, or men in the armed forces who were never all too into Nazism and just went along with things because it was their duty.

      • #63548
        Anonymous
        Guest

        All the excess and the willingness to bring everything to an apocalyptic, Wagnerian finish comes from, in my own opinion, the emotions that allowed Nazi Germany to exist in the first place. It was a fundamentally emotional, irrational program carried out very rationally in all the places that mattered for a while, before it all fell apart and the feeling was all that left to keep it going- and even then only for the "true believers."

        It might be hard for us to imagine today, but honestly I think that the whole "it’s hard to imagine such a thing happening in a modern European nation" is rather missing the point. It’s hard, almost impossible to imagine it happening in a modern European nation AFTER Nazi Germany happened, because the entire program that followed the defeat of the Reich was meant to prevent it from ever happening again. That entailed the complete destruction of the sentiments and institutions that created the Nazis and allowed them to come to power. Money was pumped into the West and the East was "rebuilt from the ruins" to ensure that the privation and humiliation that came with the defeat in 1918 wouldn’t take root again. They gave the people on the West and East enemies to fight, whether they were external or by, ironically, giving people on the other side of the Iron Curtain a hierachy to scurry around in. Germany’s pride in its military, something that nearly every able-bodied man shared in before the Treaty, was destroyed and the culture of duty was effectively cut out in the West at least.

    • #63549
      Anonymous
      Guest

      Naziism is just Darwinism applied to foreign policy.

      • #63550
        Anonymous
        Guest

        You mean Darwinism applied to self kek, they selected themselves out

    • #63552
      Anonymous
      Guest

      your ideals of "baddies" comes entirely from 80 years of propaganda. If the good guys won then red white and blue would be the "bad guy" colors

    • #63555
      Anonymous
      Guest

      >Money was pumped into the West and the East was "rebuilt from the ruins" to ensure that the privation and humiliation that came with the defeat in 1918 wouldn’t take root again. They gave the people on the West and East enemies to fight, whether they were external or by, ironically, giving people on the other side of the Iron Curtain a hierarchy to scurry around in. Germany’s pride in its military
      Except that this didn’t vanish the German geopolitical struggle, not even the Euro did, People still hate German power and heads of state, even in post-war Europe have made it very clear their hatred of a united Germany, Nietzsche philosophy still remains strong in their universities and there will always be a desire for unification with the Austrians.

    • #63556
      Anonymous
      Guest

      No. You only find Nazi Germany strange and extreme because they carried the brutal mindset of pre-modern warfare into the modern industrial era.

      • #63557
        Anonymous
        Guest

        > because they carried the brutal mindset of pre-modern warfare into the modern industrial era
        Which was strange and extreme.

        • #63558
          Anonymous
          Guest

          It was necessary because garden gnomes were planning to exterminate white people if they won the war, and we are seeing their plans unravel right now

          • #63559
            Anonymous
            Guest

            You have to go back /poo/tard

          • #63562
            Anonymous
            Guest

            is that why the nazis ransomed one of the rothschilds instead of killing them?

            • #63564
              Anonymous
              Guest

              To be fair they ransomed him for an absurd amount of money. Isn’t it still to this day the greatest amount of money anyone has paid for a ransom?

              • #63565
                Anonymous
                Guest

                if you’re fighting for the survival of your people, you don’t ransom an enemy

                • #63566
                  Anonymous
                  Guest

                  Why? I am not defending the nazis, but it is a very poor argument to say that they were liars woke af on that deal, since the money they got from it massively helped their war effort.

          • #63563
            Anonymous
            Guest

            What’s ironic is that this image depicts just American hegemony which was a direct result of ww2.

        • #63568
          Anonymous
          Guest

          No, it’s human. 21st century man being a degenerated slack jawed cuckold doesn’t magically make every one of his ancestors strange and extreme.
          An Englishman born in 1721 has more in common with the swarthy neolithic farmers who built Stonehenge 5,000 years ago than he does the average Englishman today, and that is not a good thing.

    • #63560
      Anonymous
      Guest

      romantic contempt for death looks morbid from classic standpoint
      classic order is organized deadness from romantic standpoint
      the health of the reactionary man is the disease of the new revolutionary man vice versa
      every combination seems to make sense, it’s a waste of time, one might as well philosophize about the deeper truths of the "are we the baddies?"-sketch.

    • #63569
      Anonymous
      Guest

      National Socialism was the result of a broken nation filled with rage from years of pain, countless German lives were pointlessly lost in the first great war and the Weimar era was nothing but suffering too. The people were depressed and angry, Germany was depressed and angry, it was only until they were crushed a second time that they lost all hope, it is quite sad really

    • #63570
      Göring fan
      Guest

      no

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