>so cucked your very festivals get stolen my ChristCHADS
Might is right?
Ironically it's the Protestants who brought it back in the 16th-17th centuries, during the downfall of the Catholic church and rapidly increasing secularism.
>A Christmas tree is a decorated tree, usually an evergreen conifer, such as a fir, spruce, or pine, or an artificial tree of similar appearance, associated with the celebration of Christmas, originating in Germany associated with Saint Boniface [1] The custom was developed in medieval Livonia (present-day Estonia and Latvia), and in early modern Germany where German Protestant Christians brought decorated trees into their homes.[2][3] It acquired popularity beyond the Lutheran areas of Germany[2][4] and the Baltic governorates during the second half of the 19th century, at first among the upper classes.[5]
>The tree was traditionally decorated with "roses made of colored paper, apples, wafers, tinsel, [and] sweetmeats".[2] Moravian Christians began to illuminate Christmas trees with candles,[6] which were ultimately replaced by Christmas lights after the advent of electrification.
>An angel or star might be placed at the top of the tree to represent the Angel Gabriel or the Star of Bethlehem, respectively, from the Nativity.[7][8]
>Modern Christmas trees have been related to the "tree of paradise" of medieval mystery plays that were given on 24 December, the commemoration and name day of Adam and Eve in various countries. In such plays, a tree decorated with apples (to represent the forbidden fruit) and wafers (to represent the Eucharist and redemption) was used as a setting for the play. Like the Christmas crib, the Paradise tree was later placed in homes. The apples were replaced by round objects such as shiny red balls.[13][14][19][20][21][22]
It literally is though. Most of the traditions (caroling, gift giving, cutting and decorating a tree) are just adopted from pre-Christian Roman solstice celebration. And solstice celebrations are even older than Rome. The 25th isn’t a biblical date, it was chosen to coincide with the solstice celebration. Whether you believe in Christian doctrine or not, history tells us that most of this Christmas shit is just Roman shit
by this logic, I can call Christianity pagan because the Bible uses writing, and writing was invented by pagans
Jesus drank wine - you know who else drank wine? JULIUS CAESAR
checkmate, Jesus Christ was actually a pagan
absolute fricking brainrot, but what can you expect from left-wing reddit atheists
>by this logic, I can call Christianity pagan because the Bible uses writing, and writing was invented by pagans >Jesus drank wine - you know who else drank wine? JULIUS CAESAR
These aren't ritualistic though. If you were drinking diluted wine out of a wide brim amphora and discussing theoreticals with your mates then yes you would be doing a symposium.
1 year ago
Anonymous
You're conflating rituals and customs now. Decorating a tree has no ritualistic value, neither do most of the things you mention in
It literally is though. Most of the traditions (caroling, gift giving, cutting and decorating a tree) are just adopted from pre-Christian Roman solstice celebration. And solstice celebrations are even older than Rome. The 25th isn’t a biblical date, it was chosen to coincide with the solstice celebration. Whether you believe in Christian doctrine or not, history tells us that most of this Christmas shit is just Roman shit
. Tell you what, let me know when any of these customs celebrate Rome or Caesar and I'll check it out. nta
1 year ago
Anonymous
Christmas trees and communal philosophizing both have ritualistic value. Actually, decorating christmas trees is like the one ritual workplaces will allow you to do. We had a competition at my workplace.
1 year ago
Anonymous
Nice! It still doesn't have any ritualistic value. We skip it entirely and no ritual or meaning is affected. Again, you're just conflating ritual and custom.
1 year ago
Anonymous
why did you revive this dying thread and yet ignore my quotation of scripture in direct response to your argument?
1 year ago
Anonymous
You were arguing with 2 different people, I never received a scripture citation. You cited me a workplace custom and I'm telling you that it doesn't establish ritualistic value within Christianity.
I’m not saying that these rituals can’t be Christian, but they weren’t Christian once and we’re later adopted into being a large part of the ritual of Christmas. Obviously Christmas has to do with worshipping Christ, or at least it used to. Now it’s essentially just a name given to another solstice holiday. Essentially we’ve done a full circle. Obviously there are still Christians who see it as an actually HOLYday, but it’s not a given anymore.
>celebrating the birth of Christ isn't Christian
Imagine unironically believing this shit because some redditor said it was true. >b-but muh yule >muh saturnalia >muh winter fest
Doesn't matter. No one calls it that, it isn't celebrating the winter solstice or anything, it is celebrating Christ so it is, by definition, Christian
>it's celebrating Christ
lmao not for the last century. It's celebrating vague secular humanist platitudes like family, kindness, giving and it's god is Santa Claus.
When someone mentions the true meaning of Christmas they don't mean any of that. Even if they don't want to admit it, everyone knows Christmas is fundamentally Christian. This is why there is a big push to call it something else like "holiday" of somes hit and also the reason said push has failed
Every single morality tale about the true meaning of Christmas is kindness and charity to your fellow man, not going to mass to celebrate the birth of the Saviour. It's completely irreligious and liberal.
1 year ago
Anonymous
>Every single morality tale about the true meaning of Christmas is kindness and charity to your fellow man
You mean the things that literally nobody else in earth's history ever dreamed of, let alone actually told people to do and meant it, except Jesus Christ?
1 year ago
Anonymous
Are you being sarcastic or is this just profound autism?
1 year ago
Anonymous
Did you read the Bible?
1 year ago
Anonymous
Have you no concept of humanity whatsoever outside of the Bible?
1 year ago
Anonymous
>Mark 12:28-31 > And there came one of the scribes that had heard them reasoning together, and seeing that he had answered them well, asked him which was the first commandment of all. > And Jesus answered him: The first commandment of all is, Hear, O Israel: the Lord thy God is one God. > And thou shalt love the Lord thy God, with thy whole heart, and with thy whole soul, and with thy whole mind, and with thy whole strength. This is the first commandment. > And the second is like to it: Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is no other commandment greater than these.
What other record is there of an individual espousing values like to these predating the rise of Christianity?
Jeremiah is referring to idols, you silly man.
OP laid this out pretty clearly for you.
Ironically it's the Protestants who brought it back in the 16th-17th centuries, during the downfall of the Catholic church and rapidly increasing secularism.
>A Christmas tree is a decorated tree, usually an evergreen conifer, such as a fir, spruce, or pine, or an artificial tree of similar appearance, associated with the celebration of Christmas, originating in Germany associated with Saint Boniface [1] The custom was developed in medieval Livonia (present-day Estonia and Latvia), and in early modern Germany where German Protestant Christians brought decorated trees into their homes.[2][3] It acquired popularity beyond the Lutheran areas of Germany[2][4] and the Baltic governorates during the second half of the 19th century, at first among the upper classes.[5]
>The tree was traditionally decorated with "roses made of colored paper, apples, wafers, tinsel, [and] sweetmeats".[2] Moravian Christians began to illuminate Christmas trees with candles,[6] which were ultimately replaced by Christmas lights after the advent of electrification.
>An angel or star might be placed at the top of the tree to represent the Angel Gabriel or the Star of Bethlehem, respectively, from the Nativity.[7][8]
>Modern Christmas trees have been related to the "tree of paradise" of medieval mystery plays that were given on 24 December, the commemoration and name day of Adam and Eve in various countries. In such plays, a tree decorated with apples (to represent the forbidden fruit) and wafers (to represent the Eucharist and redemption) was used as a setting for the play. Like the Christmas crib, the Paradise tree was later placed in homes. The apples were replaced by round objects such as shiny red balls.[13][14][19][20][21][22]
I wish Christmas was actually pagan in origin because it would be yet another example to show of Christianity reigning over its vanquished foes.
It literally is though. Most of the traditions (caroling, gift giving, cutting and decorating a tree) are just adopted from pre-Christian Roman solstice celebration. And solstice celebrations are even older than Rome. The 25th isn’t a biblical date, it was chosen to coincide with the solstice celebration. Whether you believe in Christian doctrine or not, history tells us that most of this Christmas shit is just Roman shit
>giving gifts is pagan
>singing is pagan
In that case Christianity is completely comfortable with many pagan practices.
by this logic, I can call Christianity pagan because the Bible uses writing, and writing was invented by pagans
Jesus drank wine - you know who else drank wine? JULIUS CAESAR
checkmate, Jesus Christ was actually a pagan
absolute fricking brainrot, but what can you expect from left-wing reddit atheists
>by this logic, I can call Christianity pagan because the Bible uses writing, and writing was invented by pagans
>Jesus drank wine - you know who else drank wine? JULIUS CAESAR
These aren't ritualistic though. If you were drinking diluted wine out of a wide brim amphora and discussing theoreticals with your mates then yes you would be doing a symposium.
You're conflating rituals and customs now. Decorating a tree has no ritualistic value, neither do most of the things you mention in
. Tell you what, let me know when any of these customs celebrate Rome or Caesar and I'll check it out. nta
Christmas trees and communal philosophizing both have ritualistic value. Actually, decorating christmas trees is like the one ritual workplaces will allow you to do. We had a competition at my workplace.
Nice! It still doesn't have any ritualistic value. We skip it entirely and no ritual or meaning is affected. Again, you're just conflating ritual and custom.
why did you revive this dying thread and yet ignore my quotation of scripture in direct response to your argument?
You were arguing with 2 different people, I never received a scripture citation. You cited me a workplace custom and I'm telling you that it doesn't establish ritualistic value within Christianity.
>the eucharist isn't ritualistic
>reading the bible isn't ritualistic
holee fuk
He didn't either
Are you ok?
I’m not saying that these rituals can’t be Christian, but they weren’t Christian once and we’re later adopted into being a large part of the ritual of Christmas. Obviously Christmas has to do with worshipping Christ, or at least it used to. Now it’s essentially just a name given to another solstice holiday. Essentially we’ve done a full circle. Obviously there are still Christians who see it as an actually HOLYday, but it’s not a given anymore.
>The name Santa Claus evolved from Nick's Dutch nickname, Sinter Klaas, a shortened form of Sint Nikolaas (Dutch for Saint Nicholas)
>so cucked your very festivals get stolen my ChristCHADS
Might is right?
>celebrating the birth of Christ isn't Christian
Imagine unironically believing this shit because some redditor said it was true.
>b-but muh yule
>muh saturnalia
>muh winter fest
Doesn't matter. No one calls it that, it isn't celebrating the winter solstice or anything, it is celebrating Christ so it is, by definition, Christian
>it's celebrating Christ
lmao not for the last century. It's celebrating vague secular humanist platitudes like family, kindness, giving and it's god is Santa Claus.
When someone mentions the true meaning of Christmas they don't mean any of that. Even if they don't want to admit it, everyone knows Christmas is fundamentally Christian. This is why there is a big push to call it something else like "holiday" of somes hit and also the reason said push has failed
Every single morality tale about the true meaning of Christmas is kindness and charity to your fellow man, not going to mass to celebrate the birth of the Saviour. It's completely irreligious and liberal.
>Every single morality tale about the true meaning of Christmas is kindness and charity to your fellow man
You mean the things that literally nobody else in earth's history ever dreamed of, let alone actually told people to do and meant it, except Jesus Christ?
Are you being sarcastic or is this just profound autism?
Did you read the Bible?
Have you no concept of humanity whatsoever outside of the Bible?
>Mark 12:28-31
> And there came one of the scribes that had heard them reasoning together, and seeing that he had answered them well, asked him which was the first commandment of all.
> And Jesus answered him: The first commandment of all is, Hear, O Israel: the Lord thy God is one God.
> And thou shalt love the Lord thy God, with thy whole heart, and with thy whole soul, and with thy whole mind, and with thy whole strength. This is the first commandment.
> And the second is like to it: Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is no other commandment greater than these.
What other record is there of an individual espousing values like to these predating the rise of Christianity?
Santa Claus is an egregore like expression of God's generosity and good will.