>Can't code
>Can't design
>Is gay. Has AIDS.
>Still one of the most important figures in tech in history
How did he do it?
>Can't code. >Can't design. >Is gay.
>Can't code
>Can't design
>Is gay. Has AIDS.
>Still one of the most important figures in tech in history
How did he do it?
branding
what did she do wrong then?
She did the branding part very good but turns out you actually need a product also
Betrayed her investors/superiors at some point. They were well aware she was pushing bad tech, they just needed someone to take the fall and she’s easy to dislike.
Also, she’s a fraudster.
Psycho eyes, shoulda covered them with glasses like him
that's a man baby
No product, kek typical economically illiterate kraut
Damn. This op knows.
>This op knows.
what the fuck does that even mean you retarded fucking newfag?
kys
This. He wasn't a nerd, nor a geek, but he could look like one. A successful one. He sold the dream, not the real ideal. A talker of talks, not a walker of walks. Wozniak though...
He knew how to talk the talk and walk the walk
Apple's creativity died with Jobs. I'm a dev and the truth is the product itself matters more than the quality of the code. It's sad but it's true. Programming can be an art but it makes more money when reduced to hacky engineering for something specific.
don't care codemonkey you will be building the Ai for us
The market is where good code goes to die. All the software you own is hacky spaghetti code which is why windows, websites, and apps are so buggy beyond redemption. We just don't care about you the way we would for a private project. It's harsh but it's true. If you're willing to pay for shitcode you will get shitcode.
He’s really a sales man, whether it be a product or selling people their own hope and dreams. He may have been an asshole, but some of the most productive coaches of all time were as well.
The one thing I give him credit for is taking a typography course and building the company around good design, so many companies like Microsoft fail in this.
Yeah I remember reading a lot about Jonny Ives and how really the designers at apple were undervalued. Also just the idea to go from ms_dos to a graphics based user interface.
My work can also be art and you can do it just right and perfectly working.
but thats not what they want.
they want it just slightly better and something to show off .
i know it, i am in the same situation.
This
He's pretty much an idea guy backed up by engineers.
He was an arab, so part ~~*merchant*~~. The Great Oz done all the heavy lifting in tech terms. Fact is Steve scammed Wozniak.
Here's the well know story
https://www.ibtimes.co.uk/steve-wozniak-cried-jobs-kept-atari-bonus-267711
Portugal is literally owned by a megalomaniac cult leader, the hereditary head of the Order of the Assassins himself.
https://insideismailism.wordpress.com/2018/08/08/why-did-aga-khan-move-to-portugal/
>Portugal is literally owned by a megalomaniac cult leader,
Yes, the Socialist Party.
Gladly nationalist right wing party is on the rise here and can become 2ns biggest part.
>muh parties
The guy has diplomatic immunity, full tax exemption, is free to move his assets in and out of Portugal with no oversight.
Portugal is operated by the Freemasons.
Woz is such a cuck, was fucked over by Jobs so many times yet would still stand in line at the Apple Store with the unwashed masses & praise Steve’s genius.
Wozniak has more worth than we could ever begin to imagine. Would he be worth that without Steve?
Steve Jobs was half german
How does noone know this
His biological father was one of those white-ish Syrians like Assad.
there was an mp3 player before the ipod
a mobile before the iphone.
Apple makes tech for retards who want to pay $800 for 16gb of RAM.
he is a nobody and a glowie at that. GTFO to reddit
>Apple makes tech for retards who want to pay $800 for 16gb of RAM.
Close.
Apple makes retards want tech who will pay $800 to be hip.
Says the android reddit “hurdur apple dumb for people with more money than sense hur dur.”
Their phone is the superior smart phone, ipods were great, competing mp3 players never had enough storage aside from the Zune which sold pretty well.
They make great software too, Logic pro is top-tier. I still prefer pc though, it’s what I grew up with and I find it easy.
Apple’s phones are the best though in my experience, in terms of value and life.
>Apple’s phones are the best though in my experience, in terms of value and life.
You can have a Chinses smartphone that would last you the same , worth the same abilities if not more actually.
I would choose android OS to any apples ios .
I tried an android back on the google nexus 4 and hated it, phone was running slow and shitty within 6 months. I’m on my 4th or 5th iphone and they’ve all been great, no problems, rock-stable OS and updates and long lives.
I buy old models refurbed at discount and then sell for around $150-200 after I’m done, it’s been really economical.
I have a smartphone from over 8 years ago, you can play around with redboot, rooted it all you want, install any android OS, it still runs 720p flawless videos on hd.
I have a laptop with more than 12 years, still runs linux, zero lag , fast loading and can run it from a usb drive.
Never used iphone before btw
>Says the android reddit “hurdur apple dumb for people with more money than sense hur dur.”
If you use any smartphone, you are an idiot. Smartphone are devices for consoomers: you can't do anything productive with them.
>Apple’s phones are the best though in my experience, in terms of value and life.
Are you kidding? Apple devices (especially modern ones) have planned obsolescence, making them basically worthless junk.
>I still prefer pc though
It's called Windows, you boomer and it's a direct ripoff of Mac's shitty ideas.
You sound like a 14 year old girl on twoxcrhomosomes who I just triggered because of some woke shit.
If you don’t use a smartphone you’re probably an unemployed homosexual with no bank account or bills. You live in a shed in the woods too Ted? You psychotic homosexual.
What’s windows bro? Plz tell me. Holy fuck you are on estrogen.
>unironic windows shilling
4kike is so normalnagger it's not even funny. LE GREAT H4X0R LULZ USES LE FUCKING WINDOWS
You linux fags are all smelly fatties, enjoy your battleship game on linux fag
I'm not fat and the biggest Linux fanatic I know is a stick.
Adderall junkies then
You are ignorant dude, anyway there is this thing called AI now .
Linux is indeed the manifestation of creativity and cooperation from regular people that don't have much resources, yet you still have all the corporate servers been run with linux server base
>If you don’t use a smartphone you’re probably an unemployed homosexual with no bank account or bills.
I mean, not having a bank account would be pretty great, not gonna lie.
>You live in a shed in the woods too Ted?
Again, that would unironically be pretty great
Most mp3 players sucked ass before iPod.
He convinced smart people to work for him. Like Musk.
He's a kike who was promoted by other israelite in the kike owned media
Exactly like kike bill gates
Satanic oaths to demons and the devil
yes. via LSD-25
He said "it's shit" or "it's fantastic" to _everything_.
It worked.
t. read his biography
what would he think about apple today?
Dongle me daddy harder please! Airpods are an abomination
by stealing some dudes idea
tesla invented the light bulb
So sad that Steve Jobs died of ligma
Right because all he ate was fruit. Some stupid wacko health fad that people realized was unhealthy in the 80s. Its still fun to pretend he had aids though. He sure looked like it.
There was a leak of his (apparently) medical records. I saw it.
Fruitarians have a bit of a stronghold on israelitetube with their cycling in Thailand gambit. Walter Kempner on steroids works quite well if you live on a bicycle.
People still post that man is a fructivore infographic to this day.
it is well known and talked about from various sources including his family. One thing I didn't know is that he was remarried with a family. He managed to keep that secret. I think he used the Lisa daughter scandal as a way to keep his life private.
A lil catalyst named LSD-25
How did this man influence the world today?
What was covered up?
Why was he killed?
What don't we know?
Too many ways to count. If i listed them glowies would attack. Mancinis radio patent was withdrawn in the 30s btw that one goes to tesla too
Marconi my bad
Organisation talent. Hes the Freddy Mercury of tech plastic crap
cool with the anti-semitism.
>How did he do it?
He had a nice guy incel do the work for him. And he made him cry too.
Literally be a mouthbreathing braindead boomer in the late 70-80-90s during the tech burst and push some buttons on a computer
He was pretty intuitive, more than peoole give him credit for. I remember reading in his bio the things he did as a kid, like hacking the phone system for free phone-calls by replicating the number beeps or something, and wiring speakers up reversed to use them as a microphone and spy on people.
I didn’t do that shit as a kid or now. Maybe that was all Woz too but it’s still more than most jagoff kids today do.
Dude thousands of people did that prior to when internet came out.
You are clueless, just go check all the opensource history and hacking overall . People designing they're own homemade tools .
People building wi-fi antennas with pringles package to hack other wi-fi's
I am dude I was born 89, the 90’s was nerfec as fuck. I remember seeing chemistry sets and shit people had from the 70’s and 80’s, and kits where you could build radios and what not.
I was also probably isolated as fuck, moved around too much, I admire the shit out of some of those skills today. Just being able to tap into the “ether” of electricity and what not, being able to see things like that is wild.
That is why im not impressed at all with this tech magnates , they are full of crap and only monopolize technology, they actually halt technology whit copywrite policies since they have way more money to produce new ideas compared to the average joe .
I believe that then yeah, probably buying up patents just to smash them. That’s actually wild to think about, how much progress is halted because of greedy assholes.
Why you think there is a currently boom in technology?
Because is not only on the hands of this corporate primitive brains
That is why people like elon muskarino want to pause and halt AI for they're convenience, but this time they have competition from all over
AFAIK,
He was an intolerant prick, but he excelled at management. Management is real, it's not a meme.
Who cares let them have it muh genius of all time, as long as they keep advancing technology to make our lives more simplified.
Eventually they will be forgotten in history books
>Still one of the most important figures in tech in history
Anyone who knows anything about tech knows this is not true. Pretty much everything he invented/popularized sucks:
1. floating window management
2. mice
3. intentionally unrepairable hardware
4. smartphones
>inb4 jobs didn't invent smartphones
He was the CEO at the time so he had to approve of it.
I could go on, but there is no point. It's pretty obvious he ruined computers.
He's a prime example of how simply targeting idiots is the best way to do business.
Apple isn't even a computer company, They're a phone company. Like Nokia. Apple was dead as a computer company back the late 90s.
??? Windows and mice are still the best we have today, what’s better?
He just wants to gatekeep computers to being CLI terminals so only educated people can use them I assume.
What like the number lists and going through lists and lists punching in numbers?
And then how do you multitask between monitors?
Limited and oldschool, I have to use 3 monitors at work if I want to get anything done now.
>Windows
Any unix-like system (except mac) is better than Windows. Linux, OpenBSD, FreeBSD, Solaris, you name it.
>mice
An ideal workflow is a keyboard-centric one. if you need a pointing device, a trackpoint is much better (pic rel).
Literally anything is better than windows. Windows is just DOS plus bugs.
I would argue that mac is worse that windows, as it's much more of a walled garden, but I respect your opinion.
I'm a dev so I use brew so it's as open as Linux for me.
Is that the red nipple? Because I loved those, but I hate working on laptop
Yes.
So many seething poorfag itt. Just get a better job and buy a macbook bro, it's worth it.
Macbook is ok, but fore as good as any other technology gadget .
I have 3 laptops and 2 computer desktops .
One of the laptops was bought in 2009 , still works flawless , occasionally I open it to clean the cpu fan and all the inside from accumulated dust. Still operates windows 10 , I can boot it from a linux distro from with a usb pen even without hdd disk . It runs youtube smooth under internet connection at HD 720p with no lag at all. Does not lag with most of webpage interfaces.
If you really into computers you got it figured out without having to spend much.
I rather save the money for a future upgrade or some.
I have an AMD based PC which as soon as I built it began blue screening because of cpu and ram incompatibility, I had to disable XMP and it worked ok for like a year, then started blue screening again like the peace of shit it is lol. If I'm ever building a desktop again it's Intel only
My most recent computer desktop, the one more hardware updated I have, runs under amd cpu ryzen 5 that I bought like 5 years ago . Never had 1 single problem, i'm not into video games that much just occasionally and it runs all the new games out the cpu cost me $80 and the gpu was $190 8gb gpu .
Basically all the computer I have never gave me any single problem that i could not solve it myself . Never in my life i took any of my computer to a repairing shop.
It's just a matter of you doing your research when buying the components , check for buyer reviews or hardware info in online tech communities .
Not saying that macs are not good, I worked with one before and it has it's own capacity as any other hardware or software operation system.
>He's a prime example of how simply targeting idiots is the best way to do business.
Yes. Over priced, over designed crap.
t. old enough to remember the "1984" ad with the girl from Nikita video and Job's NeXT computers
Gud that that age has passed.
I couldnt stand those aple homosexual hipstershits.
I miss Macfag hate threads.
His first breakout hit was the movie The Fly in 1986. But it wasn’t until his starring role in the first Jurassic Park that his legacy was really cemented.
Well you see the shape of his nose there?
That means he is gods chosen and therefore is a great man.
He was of Syrian descent, you ghastly moron.
He was half german
Seriously, how does noone know this?
and half arab
Bill Gates couldn't code, either.
They're monopolist israelite.
they all represent ant thesis of technology itself.
If they halt technology they are not techno at all they are primitive
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/3/29/musk-other-tech-experts-urge-halt-to-further-ai-developments
Anyone who puts roadblocks in the way of AI development should be jailed for life.
They are tech grifters and primitive brains, they literally halt human creativity for the sake of they're corporate vanity and fragile egos.
>They are tech grifters and primitive brains
Amen. They can't trick people who are mindful of reality. We know they're charlatans.
Don't disrespect DONKEY.BAS like that!
Apple was worth $337 billion when Jobs died. The gay guy from Alabama took over and now Apple is worth $2,755 billion. Tim Cook beat Jobs was like he beats his husband's ass.
Apple was almost bancrupt when Steve Jobs took over
Not compareable
Tim apple
> Steve jobs got the idea for Apple on an LSD trip btw
He used to put teams against each other competitively, a practice that homosexual Tim Cook stopped and called out as wrong and fired Forstall for emulating Jobs. These guys drove innovation using such tactics. Apple hasn’t done shit since he died. Yeah they make a good phone and the ARM m1/m2 is great but even the watch was greenlit under jobs. Nothing new
They are useless can't wait all this code monkeys and tech leechs being replaced by AI
And what use will you bring to the world mighty one?
My previous and current participation on those same gadgets, what are they worth if users like me don't use them? It's a collective network of interaction with technology
Also technology was always here even before humans existed, the mathematical formula was just waiting to be unfolded.
>Linux is indeed the manifestation of creativity and cooperation from regular people
The Linux kernel is mostly developed by big tech these days (which is why it has been getting worse with each version).
The software you usually run on Linux is mostly developed by volunteers tho. I really appreciate these people, not only for making great software, but also for showing hon inefficient corporate software development really is.
*
Sory, I dont know much about this.
Is Linux better than Windows?
It's not a question of being better.
But surely the internet servers of apple are run under linux base server , dunno this days though
But most of industries still rely on linux internet server base
>Apple, like most of the rest of the industry, would primarily be running Linux on their servers for cloud infrastructure
thanks
Indeed Sir, I never coded or have any skill in coding because I never needed since the opensource wizards were always ahead creating open source alternatives for us, this is why I was always fascinated by this open source computer world .
I might not know how to code, but i know how all this works.
Much respect for the linux teams out there , the unknown ones but the real ines
Fuck steve jobs
S
Yeah so you’re a talentlesd LARP that doesn’t know dick
I don't care for your emotional appeals, yes im nothing , im zero, im dust from stars, but you will still build the AI for me you little mammal brain
No, you sound like a cringe homosexual.
You think there are no data points on you? You’ve remained completely free from the system?
AI will be good for replacing people like you, people with no talent or skills that an AI can easily replace. You think you’ll be left over to enjoy it but you have no place in the world of AI.
You champion your lack of ability or talent in anything yet then go on to harp about how great AI is going to be.
Lol, fuck you’re dumb, I guess I will be thankful for the AI once it rids the world of all the useless dumb fucking mouth-breathers.
>Lol, fuck you’re dumb, I guess I will be thankful for the AI once it rids the world of all the useless dumb fucking mouth-breathers.
do it homosexual
Just shows human life has no meaning 🙂
mammal primitive brain , that is what you are
You did not created intelligence, or life , or this planet or the universe, you did not even created yourself.
You don't have memories before you were born.
You literally are the anti thesis of AI technology , imagine if it becomes sentient and having to deal with your fragile mammal brain ego
Lmao
If you don't evolve with AI you stay behind too..
This means your former self mentality that you expressed in your post has to die..
No one can even understand what the fuck you’re trying to say mush mouth. If you’d studied or worked you’d know the value of communication and language and how being unable to use it simply renders you as a retarded mongrel homosexual.
Not even gonna try to touch your other false-cringe theories about AI . You’re the most larping larp talentless homosexual larp on this board, congrats homosexual.
Dude you literally putting lot of effort to reply to me.
I'm nothing why you even wasting your time, you have something to prove or some?
lmao at this mammal brain
Yes, I hate you, I hate your existence, you are a cringe homosexual and I bet you blow your loads on the wall
Also AI will never become sentient, you don’t know dick.
Worst case scenario the huge-ego silicon valley homosexuals will program their machine learning algorithm wrong and we’ll be wiped off the face of the Earth.
But that’s human error, the machine will never become sentient. Even with all the data input in the world, it’s still left up to being programmed by a small-brained imperfect human.
That will be our downfall, that we fuck up the AI. It’s not possible for it to become sentient.
are you familiar with biological computing?
You think Ai in future only resolves around complex silicon cpu's and advanced algorithm languages?
You are not into Ai at all, you don't even like it..
I studied neuroscience, it’s the same thing
Indeed is complete related
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biological_computing
There is brain surgeon that gives lectures for free via youtube videos
Real good stuff, in this age of free information.
He had a video explaining how the brain functions even if part of it would be remove, witch puts behind the theory of left and right brain since the whole brain functions as a ecosystem .
Need to find that video, but it was really good explanation
The belief that "AI is the future" or whatever is just naive neophilia. It's like how people 100 years ago believed there would be flying cars by now.
The only way you can predict the future is by random guessing.
It's not just about being the future or not, it's the present since Ai is becoming a culture adopted by common people and not restricted to a specific group. And with Ai comes faster and boosted creativity and simplified technology for everyone and not just a specific corporation.
You literally have nations from all over the world working on it.
>showing hon inefficient corporate software development really is.
Actual reality:
- open source projects almost never work, never mature, are full of bugs because creating $new is way easier than fixing the garbage you wrote 3 years ago
Meanwhile some corporate software development
- it works, and users like it, because it wasn't created by morons
> open source projects almost never work, never mature, are full of bugs because creating $new is way easier than fixing the garbage you wrote 3 years ago
"fixing garbage you wrote 3 years ago" is literally what software companies do all the time. It's the reason nothing in Windows makes sense: microsoft didn't think anything through when designing the OS.
Anyway, any large program will have bugs, this is just reality. This is why I believe in the Unix Philosophy: make simple programs with really small codebases and use shell scripting to make these programs interact in any way you want, producing any behavior you want.
>"fixing garbage you wrote 3 years ago" is literally what software companies do all the time.
no, proper developers don't write garbage code in the first place.
>muh Windows
quite the opposite actually.
Originally they had a clue, but the competent boomer devs left and now they are stuck with zoomer moron developers, which is why Windows gets worse and worse, because they don't have a clue, but they can change GUI and they change it, in the worst way possible.
All corporate code is spaghetti trash because the devs don't care. Windows isn't a work of art. It's a 9-5 and ridden with bugs because no one has passion for corporate work. Meanwhile Linux was a hobby project and is one of the most secure servers especially compared to windows.
>no, proper developers don't write garbage code in the first place.
True. Corporations write garbage code all the time though: they pay their employees to write as many lines as possible, not to write actual quality code.
>Originally they had a clue
The only (mainstream) OS that was well designed from the very beginning is Unix. This is why every modern OS (except windows) is Unix-like.
>but they can change GUI and they change it, in the worst way possible
This is the kind of thing your average Windows user cares about, huh?
On Linux (or any similar system) you can install whatever window manager or desktop environment you want. Most WMs/DEs allow for extensive customization. But on Windows, you are forced to use the shitty microsoft-designed UI that they change with every version.
I like cinnamon DE a lot.
Americans are dumb enough to fall for anything to boost their ego
He's a visionary type. The autists ( coders, engineers ) have ZERO business sense and without people like Jobs would still be in their moms garage jerking off to porn. They are good at figuring shit out but they lack the desire to make a product that is useful to people. If you are an engineer and want an actual opportunity to make money you are lucky when you are friends with someone like Steve Jobs.
Just look at indie gaming in Steam.
>Dark Souls Clone
>Zelda Clone
>*insert AAA title here* Clone
Next five years of survival crafting will implement Tears' Ultrahand ability, because programmers aren't creative.
>but they lack the desire to make a product that is useful to people.
BULLSHIT
We are simply not greedy assholes that fuck gays in the butt and get a destroyed immune system from it.
and tim cuck was his gay lover.
YOU WILL PAY MORE FORE LESS GOY
>How did he do it?
With the aid of brand-worshiping cattle masses.
Amazing the 2 most influential guys who made Unix and C language are almost unknown: Ken Thompson and Dennis Ritchie. People should erect statues to them yet it is globohomo Jobs and Gates who the normies know.
Yea, I often bring them up too as people who ACTUALLY revolutionized technology.
>How did he do it?
By cloning BSD and selling it
Steve Jobs was a God-tier master of persuasion. Had such high levels of charisma and will power that he could distort reality around him. Just as easily he could have started a major religion or become President.
This won't make sense to most /misc/tards and autists because you are missing the part of your mind which allows normal people to do this or understand it.
Your subconscious mind literally manifests the reality you experience. If your subconscious is strong enough, it can overpower the unaware subconscious of other people around you and you can manifest their reality too.
Most people are basically on autopilot and can't consciously control it, but some people can. Jobs is an example, Donald Trump is another (except I'm not sure if he is fully aware of what he is doing, which is why it seems so random sometimes).
Pretty much any successful visionary or charismatic person or good salesman or natural leader is doing this, with varying degrees of effectiveness and awareness.
I disagree
>Steve Jobs was a God-tier master of persuasion. Had such high levels of charisma and will power that he could distort reality around him. Just as easily he could have started a major religion or become President.
Just proves this format of human system is indeed dumb, it's not a collective optimal system, it's system base on exploitation of flawed individuals , it's not base on intelligence of the whole collective but base in dumb people lmao
Imagine being proud of this
ohh forgot picture
Says the dumbest sounding monkey in the entire thread
Sure but you still share same DNA with people like me, also same biological exoskeleton, let that sink in your mammal brain HUMAN
>good salesman
You mean a LIAR and a THIEF
>he can bend reality
So why didn't he bend reality around his AIDS ridden asshole?
All you need to succeed in tech is to have the best kike lawyers to shut down your competition.
He's the 101 on making people want shit they don't need. It's the ultimate israelite, who isn't a israelite. "mePhone", mePod, meComputer. It's all, me me me me me.
He's a frontman that knocked on the right back door...
Stealing. He's literally the Thomas Edison of the 21st century. People who don't do research regard him as a visionary but in reality he's just a common kike who buys up ideas that other people created. He never created anything.
Bill Gates is a copy cat mini-me of him as well. You know very well if he were alive today him and Gates would be tag teaming the covids and supporting one another in their endeavors to do stupid shit like put vax in our foods.
You forgot, and died. You know who you don't know? The rest of the team that did more work than he did on a collective level and I'm sure on an individual level as well.
Crazy how Jobs died from gay buttsex AIDS in Man Francisco even with all that money.
cult tactics.
apple is a cult.
Windows is an even bigger cult. You NEED windows, bigot, because it's the NORMAL os. EVERYONE uses it.
Satanic empowerment.
Unironically, why do you think he got cancer?
the state of things.
Steve Jobs was a character John Lennon played. It is the same person. And as always with these types, he dropped clues everywhere. And he isn't dead, he lives with his wife on that super yacht that hangs around the Baja region of Mexico.
His Liverpool accent was obviously fake af. He wasn't working class.
Completely different face and bone structure you schizo
Nah you’re thinking of Kobe
He made being White cool.
Then he died.
Too bad.
Hitler sent millions of white people off to die in war. If he really cared, you'd think he'd just be a better painter.
They say a great general should be able to do everything he orders his soldiers to do. But I don't think that translates to capitalism.
Some people do great things through force of personality. Basically bullshitting to people, threats, yelling, and influence peddling while juggling sweetheart loans from quarter to quarter and maintaining an outward image of benevolence or genius gets everything done.
Also having a dream helps too.
>branding
And a product.
>what did she do wrong then?
She had branding and no product.
/thread
I'm a thinkpad and graphene'd pixel guy. I should man up and get a flip phone though instead of having that thing in my house listening while I'm away at work. Something I can take the battery out of like one of those Kyocera Duras.
He was chosen like Bill Gates
Wozniak was his handler though.
>it just werkz
apples formula is
combine tech gizmo x+y
basically they played pokemon
iphone = palm pilor + cellphone
mac = monitor + pc (tviefy the computer)
eventualy you run out of stuff to combine
he a good talker witha family
You described Gates, Musk, Page, Zuckercuck, Bezos, Nutella, Ballmer, Ellison.