Can someone explain to me the Ukraine-Rusia conflict?

If I search something on the internet it will likely be propaganda.
I don't believe that just one day, the Russians decided to be evil and attacked poor Ukraine that is all good and perfect.

What is the long story?

  1. 1 month ago
    Anonymous
    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      That dude is a spinless nerd cringe homosexual.
      >its the west's fault for you getting invaded, even though you are fighting and do all the work to gain your independence.

  2. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Ukraine flew way too close to the sun (the west) and Russia doesn't want the west on its border is the main thing here.
    Pre 2014 Ukraine was basically pro Russian state but when maidan happened they drifted to the west, so Russia responded by seizing Crimea without seeing any resistance from a fractured Ukrainian government. In the east part of Ukraine there's a lot of pro Russian sentiment and Crimea was probably the most pro Russian so the populace there was pretty happy and optimistic and a vast majority of Russians supported it and still do. After Crimea was seized some guys involved in that went to the Donbas region and recruited some soldiers or veterans and seized some government buildings trying to replicate how Russia took Crimea.
    They thought Russia would back them up after they saw them take the buildings, they were wrong. And they thought Ukraine wouldn't resist as they hadn't in Crimea and they were wrong about that as well. After a long siege at Sloviansk which resulted in the rebels pulling it pretty quickly went to an all out war where Russia eventually realized they needed to send support and after a while it went to what we had seen for the past 7 years or so where it was just static lines and no movement.
    The Russian justification is something like "Ukraine has been bombing Donetsk and killing Russian civilians and they are Nazi western puppets" at least from what i've seen. Personally I think that Putin realized that if he was going to do something in Ukraine it had to be done at that moment. Perhaps he was waiting for some "sense" to return to the Ukrainian populace but in turn they voted in the most pro western presidents they have ever had. And also you have to realize that in 2014 the Ukrainian military crumpled on impact with anything so its logical to assume that he thought a very quick war could be fought and the Ukrainians would basically give up as they are "brothers" or whatever. I suggest you check out the Vice series they did in 2014

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >be Canadian
      >print money out of thin air
      >use it to pay citizens to make you things using labor and resources
      >give all the things to Ukraine
      >own citizens can't even afford gas
      >repeat ad inifitum

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Other than these posts

      [...]

      I would like to elaborate on Crimea. Crimea is a big part of the reason for this invasion. The difference between Crimea, and the meme statelets in the Near Abroad that Russia set up as puppets (Abkhazia, Transnistria, DNR, etc), is that Russia regards Crimea as Russian territory. Not an autonomous Republic, not a sister country, but literal Russian land, part of the Russian Federation. After the events of 2014 the annexation of Crimea was formalised; whereas international law dictates that Crimea is occupied Ukrainian territory, Russian law says it is as Russian as Novosibirsk or St Petersburg.

      If Ukraine joined NATO, the first thing they'd do is try to recover Crimea. They could actually ask NATO for help. It would be an internal Ukrainian matter in the eyes of all NATO nations, simply Ukraine would be restoring order in its own country. NATO legislation allows for this, in fact the USA did it after 9/11: Americans asked NATO allies for help to patrol American skies. It was called Operation Eagle Assist, you can look it up.

      However as we have established before, Crimea is seen by Russia as bona fide part of Russia. In other words, a Ukrainian operation to recover Crimea, backed by NATO, would be considered by Russia a full-scale NATO invasion of Russia. Which would lead to nuclear war, inevitably. Just like a Russian invasion of Florida would.

      When the USA and NATO leaders told the world that Ukraine was more than welcome in the alliance, the Russian government decided to act. All they wanted, all they had been asking for, was a binding agreement with NATO that would leave Ukraine out. Instead, USA+NATO leaders said the gates were open. Russia knew that this process would end in nuclear annihilation of the Northern hemisphere. So they attacked first, before that point of no return.

      Russia is the aggressor of course, and Ukraine did nothing to deserve an invasion, but it's not mindless imperialism.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        There is always the option of laying down arms and giving it up to the west.
        Surely the option of cooperation is open and more beneficial than isolating yourself, what are they really fighting for? Their own power and control? It's too late to recover what was lost, wars have no place in this part of the world anymore, the borders have solidified, at least until a major food crisis and general societal collapse.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Mostly this, though with the failure to take Kiev or at least threaten it enough to scare off the current government the less important war-justification narratives have been boiled off and the new focuses of the Russian military reveal the true objectives - namely securing the separatist regions in Eastern and Southern Ukraine and attempt to seize the entire Ukrainian coast.

      These are most critical to control the Ukrainian natural gas reserves, an increasingly Western leaning Ukraine could serve as an alternate fuel source for Europe which would completely hobble any Russian geopolitical leverage on the continent. They would be forced to play nice and accept their global position as a resource rich but underdeveloped second tier state and has-been power which flies completely in the face of the hardliner view of Russian civilization as special and destined for greatness, and to make the pride sting even more it would be the Western bloc fresh off it's success in the Cold War relegating Russia to that position.

  3. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Putin got high on a mix of Dugin-style Neo-Eurasianism and Brezhnev doctrine and is unwilling to accept loss of superpower status.
    US and NATO eagerly pushed their geopolitical interests (which somewhat align with proclivities of Western and Central Ukraine) and miscalculated Putin’s state of mind.
    Combine this and you get the current shitshow.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >Dugin style eurasianism
      Conplete bullshit. The only reason Russia is now in cahoots with China is because the US constantly antagonizes both of them, as well as Syria and Iran. They would have no reason to turn to chinks if the US and EU were actually friendly to Russia it has nothing to do with le eurasianism

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >Constantly trying to draw countries that left the SU back into sphere of influence through bullying
        >Invades neighbours
        >Wonders why others ''''antagonize'''' them

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          it speaks to how stuck in the 18th century imperialist mindset the government is that they view their neighbors joining a voluntary mutual defense compact as a threat

  4. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    [...]

    Russia absolutely is a great power, just not a superpower

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      That’s the point. The US doesn’t treat Russia like a great power. If it did, it wouldn’t help support coups all around its borders.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      It's not a great power, a faulty regional power at best

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        If you have the largest nuclear arsenal, one of the largest armies, the largest territory and you can project power all the way to Syria and Africa you are a great power. You're just gay and not living in reality

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          And still an economy smaller than Italy

  5. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >Russia and the West hate eachother.
    >Ukraine wants to join the West
    >noyouwont.jpg
    Its really that simple.

  6. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    no because that would be off topic on his

  7. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    It goes back further, but Khrushchev stole Crimea off of the Russian SFSR for bureaucratic convenience and because he was a Ukrainian that played favouritism for Ukraine.

    He needed approval of the legislatures of the RSFSR and USSR to transfer Crimea to the Ukrainian SSR. Which he did not have.

    After the breakup of the USSR, an agreement Ukraine made with Russia was that Crimea would be allowed to determine it's own fate.

    Ukraine has not honoured this.
    Notable also is how Ukraine ignores it's own constitution if it's convenient. Such as the law prohibiting foreign troops on it's soil.

    When Ukraine got along with Russia, they allowed Russian bases in Crimea, territory that supposedy belongs to Ukraine.
    Again, no foreign troops allowed, but Ukraine trained with NATO and such in recent years on Ukrainian soil with the now anti-Russian government in charge.

  8. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Still not a single reply pointing out that Ukraine found big gas deposits in Crimea and threatened to cut Russia from the European gas market. Everyone spouting about Russian clay or NATO encrouchments are blind to that this is a resource war, an actual war and not like muh iraq

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Was just posting this

      Mostly this, though with the failure to take Kiev or at least threaten it enough to scare off the current government the less important war-justification narratives have been boiled off and the new focuses of the Russian military reveal the true objectives - namely securing the separatist regions in Eastern and Southern Ukraine and attempt to seize the entire Ukrainian coast.

      These are most critical to control the Ukrainian natural gas reserves, an increasingly Western leaning Ukraine could serve as an alternate fuel source for Europe which would completely hobble any Russian geopolitical leverage on the continent. They would be forced to play nice and accept their global position as a resource rich but underdeveloped second tier state and has-been power which flies completely in the face of the hardliner view of Russian civilization as special and destined for greatness, and to make the pride sting even more it would be the Western bloc fresh off it's success in the Cold War relegating Russia to that position.

      and forgot the map

  9. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Basically everything in red is some 10 million Russian speaking people who will make up at least two new countries, possibly three, between The Ukraine and Russia. Or, maybe Russia will absorb them altogether due to unprecedented political implications.

  10. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    You posted this thread earlier today

  11. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    I'll stay out of my personal opinion and just tell you my direct experience. My girlfriend is in south-eastern Ukraine with her family, she's in russian controlled territory. First day they blew up an airport near her town. Couldn't escape. I lived it with her staying on the phone all the time until one month ago, last time I heard from them because russians cut all lines of communication.

    Russians took that territory pretty fast because there was no defense at all at that point.

    Couldn't find food, temperatures below the 0° celsius, nobody dares to go on the streets. Energy and water go on and off, even for 3 days straight, temperature always below 0° celsius.

    They stole everything there was on the first 3 days, medicine food clothes electronics. Everything they could find.

    After a few weeks russian busses start to arrive in town. Grey busses with Z written on them. Around 300 people got off the bus and started to demonstrate in the center of the town. Russian media was present, 2 days later I've seen those videos on russian television.

    They killed the mayor, they killed the grocery store owner because they wouldn't collaborate. They kidnapped school board members because they wouldn't change school programs, nobody have seen them again. From now on they won't teach ukrainian language anymore and they will only teach "russian history".

    My gf has a grad (missile launcher) 2 km from her house. The ground shakes, the house shakes, can't sleep, constant terror. She can hear bombings up to 50km away.

    Her grandma finished her medicine, her leg got double in size, she'll die eventually. (if she isn't already)

    Every thursday russians give some bread to the shop, leftovers. 6 bottles of water cost 15 dollars.

    They opened a Sberbank and now they can only use rubles. Pensions have been cut in half.

    They are now organizing (since 2 months ago) a fake referendum to annex the region to Russia, which nobody wants.

    Comment too long now. Ask if you want

  12. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Long,
    Putin says Nato should leave east-europe asap. Nato response attempting coup in Kazakstan and then start Ukrain war.

    Longer,
    2014 Nato coup Ukraine and Russia was totally suprised. They succeed to secure Crimea but not do anything else. They start HUGE military program to respond Nato later.

    Longest,
    Ukraine hot closer and closer to west and EU after soviet collapse. Movement peaked circa 2008. Yulia was almost winner. Then west collapsed, subprime crisis you know. 2014 it was obvious that Ukraine will never join west in democratic way. Therefore coup.

Your email address will not be published.