Can german anons help me? i've been holding bitcoins for 2 years without trading them or doing anything with them
I know that they are now tax free cuz they are older than 1 year but how do I get proof of that? do I talk to my bank?
Can german anons help me? i've been holding bitcoins for 2 years without trading them or doing anything with them
>but how do I get proof of that?
what is a blockchain explorer?
i am aware how that works, but how do i show that to the authorities? do i just copy everything to them?
>but how do i show that to the authorities?
ask your Steuerberater whos making your Steuererklärung.
Also if you never initially declared that you bought these BTC then this 1 year thing doesnt count.
hm I see
so I need to call my bank for my Steuerberater and register it all?
I have declared the bitcoins back then
No.
It's the same as gold.
When you sell after 12 months+ holding you don't have to pay tax. When you sell and send the fiat to your bank account you can tell them beforehand when the amount of money exceeds your usual transactions (lets say six figures) and explain whats gonna happen. Regardless, the bank can (and sometimes will, (depending on many factors including the amount and your transaction history before that) contaxt the Finanzamt. They will then reach out to you to make sure you're not commiting a crime and you then have to show them you've held for 12 months+ in some way or another. For me, thats just the coinbase paperwork. Very easy if you're using a CEX. If you're using somehing else, or even P2P, you can provide the public transaction history of your wallet. There is no one single document that fits all situations and the finanzamts can ask for differnet things in each area, let alone in each bundesland. But, just as gold, obviously you don't have to declare buying something to the finanzamt.
thank you anon, I have them on a CEX too and I guess they will give them the info
kek based
>Also if you never initially declared that you bought these BTC then this 1 year thing doesnt count.
Absolute bullshit. You have no fucking clue what you're talking about.
You sign with your address. It's pretty much as irrefutable as proof goes. There's nothing stronger than that.
essen die scheise
You wanna sell them now. A few months before halving?
no just checking for when i eventually sell
obviously i've been holding for 2 years so im not selling soon
Very German behaviour indeed. Well done bro
I'm afraid I don't understand the joke here but thanks
Ofc you don't. Welcome 🙂
>I'm afraid I don't understand the joke here
very german behaviour indeed
>Very German behaviour indeed
its not just germoney there is a crackdown on large payments coming from crypto exchanges throughout the eu, he is right to be worried his bank account gets frozen
>not selling soon
dont worry anon. we are the new financial elite.
the average tax worker will offer to garggle cups of piss and shit for .000000001btc where we are going.
Well, if you're holding them for 2 years it means you either bought in at the 2021 bottom or way above current prices. Which is it?
2021 bottom
Wallet adres and transactions in and out since deposit? Thats the whole point nagger?
He bought the dip and wants you to know
You sell them for profit and now you're good.
In the tax declaration you can just declare them as "privates Veräußerunggeschäft" and that's it. If the Finanzamt is interested, then they will contact you and ask for proofs of the holding time, such as receipts for buy and sell orders. All major crypto exchanges like Coinbase or Binance offer you this service,
Theoretically you could also just present a public key, for which this Bitcoin is being held for more than one year on-chain (the hased public key is your address). And create a signature on any sort of challenge like "I a m person X Y" that can be verified using the public key. But the Finanazmt people are not smart enough to get cryptographic evidence, they trust more into screenshots or self-created excel sheets.
Thank you so much! I was worried if I were to withdraw a big number (something like half a million to a million) i'd get my account frozen but I just have to declare them
thanks for the help anon
If you withdraw a big number, your bank may ask questions where the money comes from. In that case just tell them you sold Bitcoin on exchange X and offer them proof of the transaction. Banks have to check the origin because of the possibility of money laundering. Banks dont care about your holding time or taxes, just the origin
That makes sense, I think I agree with the other anon that asking a lawyer for help might be good
Yeah I am close to 7 figs, which is scaring me that this is how far i've come in life
>how far i've come in life
you have only just begun your journey in the beyond plebe status anon
if you have 1 mill in right now you will guaranteed get to real money at cycle peak
just google for crypto tax attorney office near where you life, check their websites for their blogposts (all the good ones have these) about crypto since at least 2017, make an appointment asking for financial advise
they will set you up all the way to luxembourg all worries taken care off, for a fee of course but one you will be happy to pay at that stage
thanks anon, I really appreciate you and all the other anons with the advice ITT
How did you reach 7figs, just hodl? God speed
Mostly, and getting lucky
lucky basterd, how old r u?
i'd rather not share info about myself, but i haven't hit 30 yet
sparkasse is the worst, glad you switched to DB
ye saying an age number will dox you fucking coward nagger gets rich undeserved
sigh
it won't get me doxed but i don't like sharing personal info anon
27
>i'd get my account frozen
getting your tradfi bank account frozen is different from your taxes anon, they freeze your bank account on risks of money laundering or criminal proceeds not for potential tax evasion
if this is your problem you need to go to a tax attorney and get a compliant posof file that states where you got your money from
these lawyers usually also just work from coinbase files and put their signature on it for a large fee but then the compliance officer at the bank is happy about it and lets it go ahead
trust me once you have to cash out large 6 fig to small 7 fig numbers tradfi gets completely retarded
better to wait till you get to mid or higher 7 figs and directly go to private banking in luxembourg do not pass start
>they trust more into screenshots or self-created excel sheets
this its pretty crazy that there exists untamperable onchain evidence but they prefer an excel anyone can fuck with
for proof i only ever needed to supply my coinbase transaction history, which is an easy to fuck with file
but then again i assume if they really wanted to probe your anus they would talk directly to coinbase and see if the files match up
Why would they want to fuck you? They are literally wagies who don't give a shit about their jobs. If they gave a shit they would start learning about onchain evidence. They won't because they don't care and they don't get paid enough to care lmao
What to do If can only proof what i bought (ETH) but never tracked my Trades etc.
Can i Just sell the same amount of ETH i bought if i hold in a fresh Wallet for over a year.
If not, iam Not able to track. Binance Adresse Changed, airdrops etc.
Just Wanne sell what i bought and want to forget the in between.
Or is there a Pauschal % in taxes for people without Proof of tradinghistory?
When you can’t prove the funds history it is assumed that you “bought” for 0€- so the full amount is taxed according to your income (not kapitalertragssteuer of course)
Problem is that it is ETH
if it would be BTC , lightning would be a solution...
kek I cashed out large sums in 2020-2021. Sparkasse kicked me out, and ING too. I also didn't declare all the shitcoin trading I did the years before, and there were literally 1000s of transactions. I had to hire a lawyer that went through all my files etc, and I had to do a declaration of evasion, etc etc . In the end I paid more in lawyer fees than taxes, and I paid quite a bit of taxes to the Finanzamt (more than 40k). I think i got a bit swindled by the tax lawyer, they really charged me up the wazoo. Now I keep things simple and don't move coins too much, use only one exchange, and use koinly for reports. Thanks for reading my blog
The lawyer process took at least 2 years it was a real ballache, I didn't dare buying stocks etc because I had no idea how much taxes I would have to pay in the end. It's pretty awesome tho that gains are tax-free after a year of holding, this shithole still has a few good things going for it
>It's pretty awesome tho that gains are tax-free after a year of holding
this tbh, i DCA-d into same shit for years so if any of it balloons out of control i can sell some off and show the taxisraelite the year+ old assets purchase info
interesting, which bank are you using now? are there any crypto friendly banks?
I use Deutsche Bank now they are really nice to me actually ahaha not like the sparkasseboomers who fucking called me in in the middle of the pandemic to kick me out, it was unreal I felt like a criminal
I got the same vibe from these benchods
These boomers interviewed me in a separate room like criminal, about source of income, previous transactions
was expecting dick exam any time
Had to sign papers to buy crypto with 8% fee and forfeit any liability if transaction does not go through
GTFOd and sent to goybase, that somehow still passes
Will every other bank block your account if you cash out a high number? How to prevent that and do you recommend any other than Deutsche?
I don't think so - I think maybe n26 will be ok too. The best is to let them know in advance and you should be ok handsome... Now that people know more about crypto in general it's probably less of a problem as it was back in 2020/21 tbh
Should've cashed out using Bisq. I do this since years, fuck the German state and fuck taxes.
spar are fucking homosexuals they are cockblocking shotcoin purchases
kraken used to work until recently, only goybase left, but who knows for how long
yeah for my protection thanks homosexual, literal dogecoin performing better than you legitimate financial experts
How much was the bank and lawyer fees in comparison to the sum you cashed out?
Why lux ?
Why is kraken bad here, what exchange would you recommend?
please look at my reply here:
no bank charges tho - they were actually happy to get my money at DB and assigned a boomerstock advisor to me, I meet him once in a while, or email him directly if I need to do something with my money.
This anon is 100% right listen to they/them
I cashed out 800k but put back 100k in crypto lel now got 400k in crypto
Your story is interesting. Please elaborate. Did you also have gaps in your documentation of your trades? If yes, what was the solution for your self-disclosure?
there were a few gaps here and there but in the end it ended up being no big deal. In the end, the lawyers did some sort of evaluation of how much money I owed the Finanzamt, with upper and lower brackets. If I Recall correctly the Finanzamt people just took into account the evaluation, and didn't make me pay an extra fine. They did however makee pay interest on the money I should have paid them back in 2017, 18, 19, and 20. This amounted to about 10k. In total I paid about 40k in back taxes (for trading shit like STRATIS and poswallet coin back in 2016) and maybe fucking at least 60k to the lawyers these bloodsucker benchods - as another anon was saying, I think one would be better off just getting in touch with the Finanzamt directly and explain the situation, I think they would understand and help you find a solution. Crypto is a new thing and they seem quite understanding and would help you find a solution if there are gaps in your transaction history and so weiter
New Commerzbank receives crypto custody licence in Germany
how fucking hard can it be to call or mail the finanzamt and ask them what the fuck they need?! Is everyone here underage and/or retarded? THEY HAVE SERVICE EMPLOYEES FOR A FUCKING REASON YOU FUCKING BRAINDEAD RETARDS HOLY FUCK
It's better to ask three times. You can neve be sure
you're right buddy from my experience they seem pretty ok and understanding
they can take a while to response and sometimes they are useless fucks, but you are absolutely right
i have a lot of crypto but i can't prove that i actually bought this crypto, what do i do to cash it out?
1)find ways to spend it without exposing your identity
2)consult a tax lawyer who‘s specialised for such cases
I already do the first one but I'm scared of the second one. Can a lawyer somehow get me in trouble if i talk to him?
It depends. There‘s the „Schweigepflicht“ for lawyers in Germany. You might educate yourself on that issue first. Also, don‘t ever say „Selbstanzeige“. If you ask the tax professional right away whether you have to self-disclose (i.e „Selbstanzeige“) your taxes or not, he/she probably has no other choice to help you with doing so, no matter if that‘s the case or not.
Only explain the lawyer or tax accountant your situation and let him/her tell you what you should do.
Also look up „Verjährungsfristen“.
that flag is upside down
you can literally just export your transactions and put them in an excel and print them out. its legally no different than a pdf.
if the tax authority want further proof the tax guys can request the information directly from your exchange, which would then give the authorities the same information you gave them (assuming you didnt play around with the data, heh)
t. declared 2.5mn in profit in taxes with excel files and paid zero taxes on it. tax office was fine with excel printouts.
some other tips from someone with 5 mn networth (im 36 fyi)
- learn to do your taxes your own. crypto taxation you will understand better than 99.9% of lawyers who have no clue about it. do your taxes once or twice and you never fear it again.
- try to not keep more than 1mn in any single bank / broker
- when moving between accounts, try to get some kind of regular pattern. want to move 400k? start with 10k monthly, then 15k monthly, then 20k monthly. i move 50k twice a year (living expenses) plus in between (i typically move in the 300k-500k a year)
- you can be honest where the money comes from with your bank. yes it's crypto, but as long as you declare it/pay taxes youre totally fine. if you think they are about to kick you out, friendly remind them that you are a large customer that will (might) buy a house in the near future for which you will require a mortgage.
never even attempt structuring anons that gets you fucked the hardest if they decide to act on it
kek you structuring homosexuals are everywhere. It's not structuring just because you are not moving all your money at once literally every time. That only applies if you try to avoid money laundering limits. At 10k you are already over the limit anyway.
>At 10k you are already over the limit anyway
local rules and regulations will vary, the way the anon i replied too worded it he is talking other lurkers into structuring
and yes you should be very wary about it
Structuring is about tax evasion, the anon you quoted talked about capital that was already taxes paid for and sitting in different bank accounts, so he moves it around
Thats at least what i understood, moving around 50k is pretty stupid for structuring so doubt he meant that
these are the absolute negative iq retards that are giving you advise on LULZ and acting so self certain about it
dyor here lurkers and decide for yourself
Says the retard with zero reading comprehension,
Isnt talking about structuring
structuring almost NEVER applies to electronic transfer of cash.
structuring rules ALWAYS applies physical cash deposits.
just move away from that shithole and never come back problem solved
I think the biggest Problem is for me and other people that they trade shitcoins on dexes and did not track them and they only want to Cashout somehow with the lowest taxes possible and without a complete Trading history
That's the problem. I have so much shit going on, I don't think Koinly could track it
I would say do your best in tracking your shitcoin trading history, and get in touch with the Finanzamt when you've done so - they seem rather understanding and will help U - afaik there are rules when some transactions are missing, like using a cost basis of 0 if you can't track a purchase...
Does anyone know how staking is handled? link for example pays out 1 link per day on average. do I need the daily price of link over the years and calculate what i owe in taxes based on that?
Why dont you guys just hold your btc more than a year?
If you dont want to have kyc coins, just use lightning swaps