>Can buy 3 laptops with the same specs for the price of one Framework each of which will last me 10 years
Did no one think this through? Why would anyone buy this?
>Can buy 3 laptops with the same specs for the price of one Framework each of which will last me 10 years
To invest in a better future. <80 IQ normalfag consoomers and third worlders wouldn't understand.
Invest in a better future.... 99% of the world will never use something like this. You're just making this company richer while they laugh at you thinking that the "world can change!!" and "i'm doing good!" for spending $2k for a $600 laptop..
t. poorfag
I'm typing this on a $4k macbook right now lol
prove it
>400$ Macbook.
FTFY
Proving his point right there
Framework is just an expensive luxury gimmick for rich neckbeard soiboys
Yes, that's the nature of those kinds of investments. Maybe the idea will take off or maybe it won't , but I want it to. So I'll throw them some money for trying.
you're better off throwing it at iFixit. voting with your wallet is a meme and never works
It's not voting with your wallet.
>I'm buying a product because I want more of it to exist
is literally voting with your wallet. what did you think that phrase meant?
This is more like funding a startup than "voting" which product you prefer.
>. You're just making this company richer while they laugh at you thinking that the "world can change!!" and "i'm doing good!" for spending $2k for a $600 laptop..
>I'm typing this on a $4k macbook right now lol
half the features for twice the price!
This.
Same with Fairphone, it just doesn't make any sense. I want a replaceable battery and long term support, so slap these two features on a generic chinkphone and price it $100 more than the generic version. I'll buy it.
But no, they have to "pay living wages to chinks" and other environmentalistic sob stories, then ask for $400 on top. That's bullshit and I will never fork that much for these causes.
>I want a replaceable battery and long term support, so slap these two features on a generic chinkphone and price it $100 more than the generic version. I'll buy it.
You're talking about the Pinephone, right?
NTA but I would probably buy the pinephone if it wasn't completely taken over by GNU zealots
There is something that really pisses me off about projects that proclaim you can install anything you want, but "anything" is practically limited to GNU/Linux and fuck you if you want something else.
I'm talking about pic related
>To invest in a better future.
>by buying a flimsy macbook clone
>Invest in a better future
Framework is owned by Linus "Adblockers are piracy" Tech Tips
I do not trust him and neither should you, especially not anyone talking about better futures
I trust Linus tbh
but he's not the owner, he owns like 1% of the company or something, he bought in for $200K
the problem with laptops isnt the lack of freetard laptops with retarded markups but lack of regulations and standards enforcement
if there was, eg, one common battery form factor, 90% of problems surrounding laptops would disappear.
some startup that will go away in 10 years selling you chink clevos won't solve the massive e-waste problem
>lack of regulations and standards enforcement
Thanks but I like not having to pay 300% markup plus extra taxes for regulation and enforcement.
You really do not understand just how corrupt and inefficient the government is. Everything about what you posted will be used as an excuse to hand political friends as much money as possible while the corporations enjoy their newfound moat to keep competitors out of the business.
I really wish you retards with stupid ideas about how the government really works would neck yourself already. It's not your friend and it's never simple.
I'm surprised the EU regulation for swappable phone batteries didn't extend to laptops because the USB c requirement did
Seriously considering a t480 just so I can swap the battery when it inevitably dies
It's covers most consumer electronics.
The media talks about phones specifically because they are the most impacted class of devices. Almost every smartphone is some glued contraption.
Lots of laptops wouldn't need much change because for the most part they are swappable with the only change necessary being not using torx shit.
You sound like a fag who takes DEI scores into account when investing. There is no better future in tech if it goes against market forces like anything modular does. This approach is solutionist bs, because the only thing they are doing is adding complexity to a process where the labour is the more expensive than the materials. When materials and energy will be the economic bottleneck then their approach would just become the industry standard overnight. We went from modular to basically SoCs precisely because the parts were more expensive than manufacturing costs, and they aren't any more. They are reinventing the wheel, you're not paying for new knowhow, you're just a sucker. Maybe if we're gonna get to a point where chips stop improving then modularity would make economic sense for reparability and with 0 2nd hand market value. But it comes a point and that's currently around the 7-8 year mark when nobody wants your outdated trash relative to modern performance.
Also from what I remember, they don't even have removable CPUs, what a joke. My 2012 thinkpad is more modular than their basedware. What happens in 20 years when the CPU delaminates due to heat cycles? You throw away the whole board, and then you'll make Greta cry. You want modularity? Get a desktop, a now dying breed of consumer electronics for niche use cases.
>third worlders wouldn't understand
we understand but we don't have money
>hey fellow freetards lets make a freetard gimmick and we try to sell it for [blown out overpriced] amount
>does not sell
>fellow freetards, capitalism has failed. not our fault
many such cases
>freetards
>framework
They don't even do Coreboot
If I needed more power in a laptop than my Pinebook Pro (running Tow-Boot), I'd just get System76 because at least they have native Coreboot
Yeah, except your cheap stuff won't last 10 years probably
Also, no upgradeability, soldered RAM and SSD that will soon be obsolete
Just buy a Macbook already if you love non-upgradeable shit so much
^This. Also worth noting is the cost of any notebook or desktop is trivial for many buyers who can afford exactly what they want. A modular design offers granular choice.
OTOH someone making decent money in the West can afford to set a grand or two on fire. Many buyers keep their machines for a long time so spending more up front does not matter. I do not mean as any sort of flex, but that they have no reason to care about the difference. Those who do can buy whatever Walmart has on sale instead and be happy with their choice.
I don't own one because more powerful machines are available and one can never have too much CPU, RAM and GPU. As those who work in industry know ALL equipment is basically disposable and goals are more important than a few dollars.
You’ve got people with 100k+ software dev jobs larping as poorfags. Nigga you use a macbook for work, don’t pretend you do anything important on your thinkpad
>10 years
So your telling me macbook users are poorfags who buy unusable hardware cuz it lasts longer?
>Yeah, except your cheap stuff won't last 10 years probably
It absolutely will since the only moving parts are the fans and we hit the soft cap on diminishing returns for computer specs a long ass time now. An average laptop made now or even 10 years ago will still be able to flawlessly open a web browser now as it will 10 years into the future.
The only reason we even need our normal (see: vast) amounts of processing power, storage, ram, etc is because shit companies like Microshit, Googshit and Appleshit specifically hire shitjeets to program wildly inefficiently. These companies deliberately raise minimum requirements and are the only reason an old laptop wouldn't be a viable solution to any problem you'd normally hand to a laptop.
But we have a solution to that, just don't use their software and pretty much any laptop can work flawlessly until a major component burns out.
>the only alternative to a framework is a macbook
Like clockwork. I'll continue buying business class laptops with actual proven reliability, build quality and battery life. RAM and SSDs are still replaceable, smaller parts all have part numbers you can order.
I do the same thing anon
I can get my laptop repaired for like $100 at any number of local repair shops. It's still far, far cheaper than buying a framework
>I can get my laptop repaired for like $100 at any number of local repair shops.
jesus christ. I get that sometimes it's a bit bigger but srsly - this is a fucking tech board. If you can't confidently take the back off a laptop and replace interchangeable parts then we really are lost.
>I can get my laptop repaired for like $100 at any number of local repair shops.
lmao. as someone who used to work in a repair shop, i can say you have no concept of what repair costs are. $100 is the absolute lowest you would be charged. it will probably cost you $50 upfront just for a diagnosis
Nice, care to show me those laptops?
anyone actual comparison of Framework laptop specs/price vs decent normal laptop with non-soldered components?
>small companies can't compete with economies of scale and will always cost 3x more
is a truism that is no longer true anymore but
>people will overbuy for a "sustainability" brand which is actually just a lifestyle brand in disguise
is also true and I don't know where framework falls on the spectrum. but I don't care enough to do my own research
You can look around for tables of AMD 7040 laptops since AMD babbies are starved for laptops with their chips.
Anyway, I got one and it cost me about $200 when compared to a similarly spec'd T14s (soldered) with coupon. But it probably would have been more if I waited for thanksgiving weekend to get a thinkpad. And while its nice that the ports are swappable, only having 4 is annoying at times.
But the main cost no one talks about is dealing with their shit firmware and bugs. I probably wouldn't recommend it as a primary computer.
>anyone actual comparison of Framework laptop specs/price vs decent normal laptop with non-soldered components?
With my preferred config at the moment (Ryzen 7 - 32 GB RAM - 1 TB storage) I can get the Framework 16 DIY at around 2000 € by sourcing the RAM and SSD elsewhere and not buying a Windows license. With no GPU, which costs 450 € at the moment, but I can choose to just buy it later which is great, no other laptop AFAIK allows you to upgrade the GPU. Admittedly the one available upfront is not very good however.
I won't type up the specs for every other laptop I compare with, just look them up.
>Dell XPS 15: 2279 €
>HP Omen 16 Ryzen: 2299 €
>Thinkpad P16v: 2213 €
>Macbook Pro with M3 Max: 4099€ (lol)
Aside from Applel every similar laptop is in the 2000-2500 € price range anyway, so I don't think it is overpriced for what you get. That's the 16, for the 13 you are paying a bigger premium and it's not quite as much worth it from what I see.
Bought a used maxed out t14 gen 2 AMD with 32gb ram 1tb ssd and the 4k screen for 550 bucks just a month ago. Like 50 battery cycles. Do that with your shitwork
There is a maxed out first gen FW 13 on EBay right now at 560 USD.
>first gen anything
>Intel
Bro...
>niche brand founded in 2021
>doesn't really sell fleets to businesses yet
>users are encouraged to swap out parts to upgrade instead of getting a whole new laptop
>AMD models have only started shipping in the last few weeks
>"Why is second hand availability poor?"
The 16" model is actually quite competitive compared to others in their performance range. Where they gouge you is in the upgrades. The prices for upgrades to ram/ssd are ridiculous compared to other companies like lenovo.
>Where they gouge you is in the upgrades. The prices for upgrades to ram/ssd are ridiculous compared to other companies like lenovo.
If you buy RAM and SSD from their store then you WANT to pay the premium to them. You can just get whatever you want to use for half the price on a Amazon sale, including the exact same SSD model that they use.
99% of laptop models don't even let you change them even if you wanted.
>99% of laptops youtubers shill don't even let you change them even if you wanted.
FTFY
There's plenty of current new laptops with replaceable ram and ssds. Pretty much all gaming laptops, all mid-tier laptops from Lenovo Ideapad, Acer Aspire, Asus Vivo, Gigabyte, Dell Inspiron, HP Pavilion/laptop, Clevo/Sager, and plenty more.
Only retarded ledditors and Linus cumslurp tips fans think Framework is the only laptop that you can do this with.
you cannot replace ports on those other laptops so framework automatically wins
Fucking retard, they all have every port you would need like 3x usb, 1 or 2 USB-C, SD card, hdmi and 1/2.5G ethernet built right in.
You framecucks have a max of 4 type c ports all with increased latency and power consumption because they're adapted through USB and not connected straight to the CPU.
Bu-bu-buh what if those ports BREAK? Didn't think about that one, did you?
On my memework I can easily replace them!
>Where they gouge you is in the upgrades. The prices for upgrades to ram/ssd are ridiculous compared to other companies like lenovo.
>If you buy RAM and SSD from their store then you WANT to pay the premium to them
again if you go thru them you're going to pay the premium. As already stated you can easily get interchangeable parts from another supplier at a much cheaper cost.
But how does it compare with other "integrators" like Schenker/XMG or System76, or even the chinkshit patriach Clevo?
And on the other side, how does it compare with mid-level chinkshit like Acer?
Upgrading RAM and SSD is nothing exceptional, you can still do it on a number of decent laptops.
But it has its limits. Good Integration and good modularity rarely go together. Upgrading parts on a 10yo laptop will have some side effects, likely on the power, electronic or cooling side.
True. Unless maybe if you travel and you have access to third world shops.
i thought these frameworks were for small businesses that didn't want to pay for the enterprises support from the big vendors
It's a white male thing, you wouldn't get it
Show us your 2013 laptop you're still using
Don't know what crappy supermarket laptops you compare it to, but Lenovo Thinkpads and Dell XPS are way more expensive than Frameworks DIY. The latter is half price if you bring your own SSD and RAM and Linux instead of Windows
>Why would anyone buy this?
In order:
3:2 screen
Company supports linux
Alternative to apple laptops
The swappable port thing is nice
Upgradable
the "swappable ports" are just dongles you absolute spastic
Yes but no other dongles are recessed into the body of the laptop like that. It's a convenience thing, you know? Spazzmo?
>The swappable port thing is nice
Anyone here actually own a Framework laptop? I wanna know what dongles you've got dangling on
Just seems so fucking useless to me. You've probably got a couple USB-C, maybe one USB-A and an HDMI port. And that's it, the same ports every laptop has.
The form factor is simply not suitable for any of the ports you'd traditionally need dongles for such as anything with a d-sub connector like VGA or RS232.
that's very likely what most people will run, besides maybe dport or ethernet depending on your setup.
the selling point for me is that i would be able to replace the only real wear part in the machine with ease. every laptop i've owned has eventually gotten a broken charging port.
2 usb A
2 usb C
And many laptops don't have usb A ports now, which is why I liked having options with the swappable ports
I bought some spare port because they tend to go loose eventually. I also keep it on displayport when I'm not traveling because I daisy chain monitors at home and at work.
3X USBc, 1X HDMI while docked at home on external monitors, swap the HDMI and a couple USBC to USBA when I take it out, keep all the expansion cards in the same bag as the laptop anyway so I can swap as needed.
There's a known issue with power draw on the gen1 HDMI that I have, so I dont leave it plugged in when running on battery.
I own a USBC to ethernet dongle which made more sense than the ethernet expansion card.
The benefit is more to change out ports as needed rather than having things hanging out of the laptop.
>doesnt have quick swappable battery.
>"wE ARe mOdULaR"
it was a bad project from the start
It's really easy to make a chasis to have one in the future, if needed. That's the beauty of having a platform like this.
Wait it doesn't have a swappable battery? Are they retarded? That's the only thing that ever kills a laptop
>Wait it doesn't have a swappable battery?
you have to unscrew the back to remove it.
it's not HOT-swappable but it definitely IS swappable
if you can't do a battery swap on a modern laptop you shouldn't post on LULZ
you aren't ready yet, it is a trivial job
swapping batteries on your 10 year old thinkpad t430 is necessary because the cells are shot and all available replacements are also shit
i know cuz i've been there, im ok with this arrangement as long as its replaceable at all
i bought it to support linus
They Expert me to wait months on it as well. Like I can just get something at Microcenter today.
Do you care to prove it or will you continue the OP tradition of gargling every cock in sight?
Yeah, I was looking into one of these to replace my dead thinkpad but after pricing it out it just did not make a lot of sense. I could get a thinkpad with all of the same ports, better battery, better keyboard and trackpad for less money. So I'm just gonna stick with thinkpad.
>I could get a thinkpad with all of the same ports, better battery, better keyboard and trackpad for less money
wut? you mean an old used one? a new one easily costs 50% more than a Framework with the same specs
Here's the current pricing of a New gen 4 T14 vs a Framework 13
A new gen 4 T14 with a Ryzen 7840U, 32 GB RAM, 256 GB SSD, backlit keyboard, 52.5Wh battery, 400 nit OLED screen. Comes with charger, standard 2x USB-C, 2X USB-A, HDMI, and ethernet ports - $1,212.00
DIY edition Framework 13 with a Ryzen 7840U, 32 GB RAM, bring your own SSD, backlit keybaord, 55 Wh battery, 400 nit display, bring your own charger, no expansion ports added - $1,329.00
Add 1 USB-C card, 1 USB-A card, 1 audio jack card, and 1 ethernet card to make the framework usable and your looking at a total of $1,405.00
>making stuff up
yeah ok come back when you have facts like
>1 audio jack card
retard
Sorry I confused the 13 with the 16 which doesn't have an audio jack standard. Either way, replace the audio jack card for another of your choice and the pricing is still to high compared to a T14.
I checked for myself and I get 1592 € for the T14 (with 1TB drive, IPS screen) and 1719 € for the Framework with 1 TB drive and 32 GB RAM supplied elsewhere. Both Ryzen 7. So there is a markup for the 13 but it doesn't seem too high for me. It mostly comes down to features offered at this point, FW has unlimited reparability and a bigger battery, TP has more ports, the nipple and better screen options, reparability still being above average.
FW 16 is significantly more competitive in price with equivalent laptops and leverages the modularity a lot more, but I'll wait to see the first ones in the wild before expressing a judgment.
Obviously to be part of the mastodon framework group and get 5 likes on their toot.
Isn't the board upgrade like 1k? what's even the point
their 13th gen intel boards range from 450$ to 1050$
the ryzen boards, 450 to 700
intel being intel again
So those don't have hot swappable drives and batteries?
When will they get those? I heard battery life in general isn't good on them but I can kinda understand why
>Why would anyone buy this?
>things that keep poorfags up at night
i mean, people are buying them right? looks like they win as a company as long as they don't have any bad PR like pro-palestine or anti-BLM announcements
It’s a cash grab from autists who spend waaayyyy to much time thinking about computers.
The price reflects how much people are willing to pay for it.
I still don't exactly understand the point of this. For that price you can get a pretty good laptop that'll last you around 7-10 years.
>that'll last you around 7-10 years.
That's not guaranteed
The whole reason framework exists is because you flat out cannot rely on things to be reliable no matter how much you pay.
You may have skirted by with the handful of laptops in your life and not had one of them fail you but shit does happen.
No matter what some people WILL have failed baords. Batteries WILL die and only hold a fraction of what they used to.
Despite all the advancement, nothing has been made perfectly reliable and for some reason manufacturers have a culture where everything must be redesigned and made incompatible with previous generation hardware which can make service difficult if hardware dries up too soon.
Framework isn't cost effective yet, but things do need to be steered more towards how they operate.
But none of this is guaranteed by framework either. I'd rather trust a reputed manufacturer to have better components than framework.
Plus framework locks you in to that laptop type. If you ever want to buy something different you'll have to wrestle with the opportunity cost of already sinking xxxx into your framework laptop.
Lastly there's no guarantees everything will remain as it does, maybe framework, after getting enough of a customer base, jacks up the prices. We've seen multiple SaaS companies do it.
I think framework has a small niche but I don't get why people shill it so much.
>But none of this is guaranteed by framework either.
No shit, which is why they sell replacements and stick with a certain design in order to keep replacements around even as certain components stop being supplied (i.e. CPUs)
>I'd rather trust a reputed manufacturer to have better components than framework.
Your not getting it. No consumer product is going to be 100% reliable. The best thing you can do if you don't want any of your customers with a busted laptop 3 years down the line is to make replacement parts.
Current OEMs otherwise couldn't give a shit if your thing gets busted in a few years.
>Plus framework locks you in to that laptop type. If you ever want to buy something different you'll have to wrestle with the opportunity cost of already sinking xxxx into your framework laptop.
I don't get it? With a standard laptop you have to discard the previous one regardless if you want to upgrade more than the RAM, so there is no opportunity cost, you have merely the option of just replacing whatever part you think is obsolete instead of the whole thing.
I must support this small multi-million dollar company because leddit and linux racemixing tips told me to!
For me, it's buying the promise of the future I suppose. It's almost certainly not the best bang for my buck even if we factor in the price I am paying for the OS I'll never use on any other laptop I could purchase instead, but I want to see where this goes.
it's a very successful meme
i dunno how they sold any at all
>AMD Ryzen™ 7040HS and Radeon™ RX 7700S
lel
/g/tards who bought into their own meme, most successful and intelligent people aren't racists like the tards here are convinced they are. In fact a lot of what they call normies are people better than them in every aspect.
But these fuckers will never see that their sh!tty lives are their own fault, not the (normies(
I reacon soon the EU will force all manufacturers to be like this, there has been far too much waste for far too long and mother earth is dying because of you autistic homosexuals, so soon any tech must be future proof upgradable
The Industrial Revolution and its consequences have been a disaster for the human race.
I don't think it necessarily has to be framework tier though, to be honest i think even today if some company bought up all the ex-business thinkpads and refreshed them in a non-backyard-hack kinda way they'd be instant millionaires
>if some company bought up all the ex-business thinkpads and refreshed them in a non-backyard-hack kinda way they'd be instant millionaires
No they won't. People want new things, it will take multiple generations to unlearn this behavior.
If anything it's getting worse now that more people want new cars and not used cars.
Framework is for e-waste maxing and bank account minimizing.
the problem with framework is they're trying to go down the modular/no-tools path which of course will cost more as they're basically making bespoke stuff.
If they looked at more like thinkpads and just focused on the ability to easily access, swap out and upgrade they would basically create an entire right-to-repair niche straight away.
I think it's fine to an extent (basically just the ports), but all of the magnetically locked bits (particularly the screen edges) are fucking stupid.
muh point exactly - they are literally doing the same as every other manufacturer by effectively limiting the users ability to buy 3rd party parts and interchange them.
what we need is a right-to-repair manufacturer.
don't care. still preordered the diy 16 7040.
if I'm shopping for notebook only thing I care about is the price.
I for one, will never buy one while that homosexual israelite linus is involved with them.
yea that's capitalism, basically. the advantages of the economy of scale means that eventually the entire planet will be owned by one gigantic mega company. you will "rent" everything. no small business can compete with the economy of scale. you're gonna die with your dingus stuck in an eyeball socket.
They are selling the "usb-c" module for like 40 bucks, it is literally a usb c cable, they already have usbc as the connector for the modules and then cant even make it two usbc ports for the module, fucking embarrassing
What third world country are you buying them from? Even with their awful logistics in Europe I'm "only" paying 12 € in delivery and the module itself is 10 €.
Thats still 9€ to much for a usbc cable essentially, its just a really stupid design, you buy a module to get one fucking usb port, couldve put in at least 2
>at least 2
Whoa, anon! Two USB ports for the price of one?! What are they, some charity?
The more you buy, the more you save!
The modules are meant to be sacrificial
Compare a $9 USB-C module to what it would cost to micro solder a new port on any other laptop.
>LE FRAMEWORK IS LE EXPENSIVE
enough with the lies
>OLED screen
>ddr5
>moving goalposts
How much is the OLED framebook I don't see it listed?
yeah I think the framework is shit because of bad software support, especially with how many derivatives they are pumping out. Imo that's a deal breaker if you want an actually repairable or expandable laptop.
but the pricing is surprisingly very very good. Better than ThinkPad for the same specs, and absolutely way above system76 or similar smaller manufacturers. Which is impressive since sys76 are basically resellers of chinkshit clevos.
bad software support? are you retarded on purpose? I pre-ordered the 1st gen and arch linux with all drivers worked flawlessly on it day one.
Nothing in that computer is exotic or unusual in any way.
yeah whatever lol. enjoy waiting 1 year for a bios update that fixes the most basic shit (don't look into how they abandoned the 12th Intel Framework)
A ryzen 5 framework motherboard with nothing else included is $849.
I can build a Lenovo E14 $728 with a ryzen 7 cpu and it comes pre assembled as an entire laptop with real ports instead of meme adapters.
once they put a nipple on the fucking thing, i'm buying.
>There is a premium for a low volume, custimizable niche device vs an HP chinkpad from Walmart.
No shit.
Retards think being able to replace the screen from a first party vendor makes it a future proof laptop
If framework lasts 10 years that'd be neat especially if you can swap the motherboard in the same form factor lol
The "muh repairability" meme
>what we need is a right-to-repair manufacturer.
Anyone?
>>Can buy 3 laptops with the same specs for the price of one
Is this an accurate statement? How close is it to reality?
It's true if you want to buy cum-stained laptops off ebay/FB, If you're buying new, framework is competitive in their class, assuming you're bringing your own ssd/ram.
you could probably get used or 3 drastically underpowered chromebooks. But that doesn't make the same point with the same emphasis for OP does it?
I'm happy to "supercharge" anons gaymer laptop with a $20 nvme, $12 ddr4 sodimm for $100.
It looks neat
How many other laptops can have the numpad on the left?