>BYZANTIUM WAS LOCATED IN "GREECE" THAT MAKES THEM GREEK OKAY?!
>UM BUT YEAH I KNOW GREECE AS A COUNTRY DIDN'T EXIST UNTIL 1821 BUT THEY WERE TOTALLY GREEK OKAY!!!!
>I DONT CARE THAT ALEXANDER WAS FROM MACEDONIA HE IS GREEK!!!!
Do they REALLY?
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>BYZANTIUM WAS LOCATED IN "GREECE" THAT MAKES THEM GREEK OKAY?!
Roman East remained hellenized except latin used for laws
Literally the opposite Stavros
Thrace and Illyria were fully Latinized despite being closer to Greece geographically, moron.
this is a very niche conversation revolving around really petty identity issues. i dont think anyone here is moronic for not sharing some special interpretation you have. i think you're just coping.
>petty identity issues
>moron whose arguing with others claiming Greeks are Roman unironically
hello pot to kettle
I'm pretty sure it's speaking greek and being populated by ethnic hellens that makes them greek.
Wrong and this logic you were conquered by everyone who conquered Cyprus
they spoke romaic
they referred to their language as romaic
they referred to themselves as romei
if the turks hadn't destroyed their empire, modern greece wouldn't exist
greeks should consider the turkish sultans liberators because if not for 1453 they wouldn't exist along with their ancient hellenic larp
They are romaboo balkan/anatolian mutts
They mostly spoke greek, though. We have many texts from the period, including old bibles etc.
True that MODERN greece wouldn't exist if the empire hadn't fallen, however, the majority of greece and anatolia today would have been greek speaking, in that case (Depending on what borders we put on lasting empire here).
They would not have seen any paradox in being both romans and greek.
I don't think they would still call themselves Romans, though. Or even if they did, no one else would. Like how the Germans call themselves Deutschland but practically every other country has a different name for them.
Some Greek children in the Aegean islands (Lemnos I believe) were calling themselves "Roman" all the way into the late 19th or early 20th century. The Roman identity was very strong with Anatolian and island Greeks and it endured all through the Ottoman rule.
>They mostly spoke greek, though
He's referring to the fact they called the language Romaic/Romeika. 'The language of the Romans' and not Greek.
>They would not have seen any paradox in being both romans and greek.
They themselves clearly did Constantine VII was highly confused by those in the Peloponnese that called themselves Hellens as they belived themselves to be descendants of the Ancient Greeks, which Constantine thought was nonsense. He saw a clear boundry in being Roman and being Greek.
> they spoke romaic
I'm pretty sure you aren't moronic so why are you replying to obvious bait
If Byzantium wasn't Greek then what was it?
First you need to define "greek"
Hellens who speak a dialect of greek
Tf is “hellen”? Isn't that a girl's name?
Also see
>Greek: Ἑλλάς, romanized: Hellás
>If Byzantium wasn't Greek then what was it?
medieval Romans who spoke Greek with Persian culture.
dios mio, romans created the first globohomosexual monstrosity
great work.
do you have a twitter account where i can learn more?
Thanks Caracalla
it was greek as frick
this board is full of LARPagans that never read a history book in their entire life
that picture is wrong. Belisarius/Narses never took the area where Milan is now.
>No Greek culture
>No Greek political systems
>No belief that they were even Greek
>No Greek law
>No Greek military
>No Greek religion
>Majority of the people weren't even genetic Greeks.
But they wuz Greeks n shieeeet
What were they then?
medieval romans
medieval Byzantine*
mental illness
you will NEVER be a woman
*roman
Greeks are the biggest wewuzzers ever. Literally Somali-turk rapebabies brought by the Ottomans to displace Albanians and Macedonians(Scythians/Slavs - same thing) who were the actual "ancient Greeks" and just claiming they wuz it all thanks to Rothschild support.
>Albanians are Slavs
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
>inb4 muh loanwords
Black person shut up
Genetic studies disagree with you. Oh wait, I guess le jooz are responsible for those as well.
>565
Soulless
The Byzantines weren't really Greeks or Romans; but another distinct, semi-Asiatic civilization entirely.
They were called Greek by contemporaries. Their country was sometimes called the Greek Empire.
It is also true it was called the greek empire for political reasons (ie. the HRE called it that because it didn't recognize it as roman empire)
why does "being roman" matter so much to people that they'll engage in cope like this?
>america is rome
>third reich was rome
>ottoman empire was rome
sure, whatever. everyone's rome.
but given that, what differentiates all the different """"romes""""?
certainly byzantine rome is just greek rome. excluding the meaningless universal redundant prefix, you get the quality that actually distinguishes them - their greekness.
america is basically rome 2 though
Being "Rome" is the highest honor for any actual or aspiring European/Near Eastern hegemon.
They basically set the standard when it comes to empiring.
>greeks didn't exist because their nation state was only established in 1821
do you REALLY?
i want to slap him but he still has a point. the implication isnt that greeks didnt exist but that they cant retroactively claim (or be assigned) a polity like byzantium because the identity wasnt strong enough at the time.
either wat - dont you hate these historians who only circumstantially apply this "respect contemporary ideas" trope when it suits modern sensibilities?
we can project social justice and dark skin onto our ancestors and deny their national sentiments but god forbid we attempt to judge their contemporary love for boys.
>either wat
either way
Along with the 9th-century Macedonian Renaissance, there was a big resurgence of Hellenic culture. In the late-period empire, you had Byzantine historians looking more toward the Greek identity and distancing from the Latin Romans who founded the whole thing in the first place:
>". . . Did you understand therefore how great a difference there is between the Greek and the European ['Vestern] fathers in theology and in the other branches of philosophy? Who can be compared with Orpheus, Homer, and Stesichorus in poetry; who with Plotinus, Proclus, and Porphyry; with Arius, Origen, and Eusebius, men [i.e., heretics] who have split the seam of Christ's garment? Who can be compared with Cyril, Gregory, and Basil; who, in the field of grammar, can equal or approach Herodian, Apollonius, and Trypho…do you not understand that Athens alone of all Greece was able to give birth to more philosophers than all Italy had or has? Now, however, I admit, we are the remnants of the Greeks, a view with which you of course agree willingly."
>and distancing from the Latin Romans who founded the whole thing in the first place:
When italian invaders and spanish pirates devastate your nation and endanger their own existence while the Latin Church excommunicates you, it is normal that they felt aversion for Latins
>Italian invaders
Seethe Isaac Angelos
Venice was created by the Byzantines so they mostly have themselves to blame for the IV Crusade shenanigans. The Crusaders didn't even want to get embroiled in Venetian-Byzantine petty politicking, they just wanted a ride to Jerusalem, but their most charismatic leader died before the whole thing began and as a result they didn't have enough men or cash for the enterprise so they had to do grunt work for the doge and Byzantine prince.
The Catalans are another matter altogether, and not much related to Italy.
Sadly Karl the big boy didn't take the opportunity presented by "empress" Irene to invade and bring them superior germanic statemanship.
They weren't Greeks, they were Hellenes.
Even the Byzantines knew they were Greek, they had two identities, a Roman "national identity" and a Greek ethnic one, the stories of them calling themselves Roman on various Aegean islands is made up bullshit.
>Greek ethnic one
There really isn’t any proof they had one until the 13th century and that was only shared by elites
Byzantium was hardly ethnically Greek. It was a hodgepodge of ethnicities with a clearly Roman administration while the Greeks were largely serfs. Just because it was loosely located near Greece doesn't make it automatically Greek, especially when it was established by the Romans.
Ah yes, how could I forget about the 500 Armenians in the court? If you don't think Mediaeval Byzantium was primarily Greek, you are beyond help.
Since when were Anatolians ethnically Greek
Since the hellenization of Analotia
By that logic all of Greece and Anatolia are ethnically Roman since they were Romanized
The Anatolians.
They weren't romanized
Only Iberians gauls and dacians were romanized
Who do you think was living in Anatolia dipshit?