atheists, give me one, just one, instance of thousands of people dying for the same belief which is witness based besides Christianity.

atheists, give me one, just one, instance of thousands of people dying for the same belief which is witness based besides Christianity.

  1. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    islam

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Not witness based. Next!

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Islam is witness based, actually. People witnessed Mohammed's miracles and died for him.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Yeah people did for him no shit, he is a warlord.
          The miracles are just claims which has no witness where thousands of people died for.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            He became a warlord by converting people through his miracles, which were witnessed, otherwise people wouldn't have been convinced. The splitting of the Moon was witnessed, speaking to the dead was witnessed, the shaking of Mount Uhud was witnessed. Why can't non-Muslims ever justify their infidelity? Why would countless people have joined Mohammed and died for him if it weren't for his miracles?

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              Violence and the threat of violence

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Double standard

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        There plenty of witnesses of Muhammed splitting the moon.

  2. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Wtf does witnessed based mean?

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      A belief which is based upon witnessing it.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Charlemagne killed thousands of saxons for their beliefs and they witnessed the aesir savijg the world from darkness

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >they witnessed the aesir savijg the world from darkness
          are they thousands of people who died for the same witness based belief though?

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Yea I think it was 4500 that were decapitated. Let's not even get into the shit the teutonic knights did to the old prussians. Everyone forgets the northern crusades

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              That's just a genocide and neither is it related to their beliefs which is non witness based to boot.
              I'm talking about thousands of people dying for the same witness based beliefs.
              Bad try.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                What thousands of people died for witness belief in Christianity?

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                The first Christians? The people who saw Christ risen? Duh.
                Well not just them but China and other parts of the world where I don't know, a lot of Christians are persecuted and even died for their, yes, witness based beliefs, like supernatural experiences and stuff.
                Christianity is the only witness based belief where people still die for it anymore.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >The first Christians? The people who saw Christ risen?
                Source?
                >China and other parts of the world where I don't know
                Source?
                >a lot of Christians are persecuted and even died for their, yes
                Source?

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >Someone with no little to no educational background is history or current affairs is asking source of common undisputed facts.
                You shouldn't be here.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >common undisputed facts
                I dispute the alleged fact that Christians have suffered any large scale persecution, and certainly that thousands have been killed for their Christian beliefs. Christian claims of persecution has as much validity to them as israeli claims.

                Now present your sources.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Bahahahaha.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                The martyrdom of the 11 are hotly disputed. It's not commonly accepted as historically supported within the field. Last I checked most scholars who believe it to be the case do so on religious grounds rather than due to their field.

                Most of the witnesses disappear from the 1st
                century record, and only appear on as oral traditions that seem to have been derived from texts considered to be heretical by the major Christian sects today.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Nta, most scholars accept Peter, James, & Paul since they're the best attested. I don't know about the others since they aren't brought up as much in terms of importance. Also for a rec Fate of the Apostles is apparently a good book on it I've been meaning to read sometime.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                they aren't attested at all. being the protagonist of fanfiction is not attestation.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                WE have Paul's writings, Paul mentions Peter and James and James is in Josephus.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                are you retarded?

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                I thought the claim was that most scholars accepted the idea that most of the direct disciples were martyred.

                I do think it's likely Peter and Paul were killed due to their actions as followers of Christ, but I do not think it's strong evidence of the resurrection especially given what Paul's experience was.

                As for James, the brother, I haven't seen a strong argument made, but I will look some up later. The reference in Antiquities is vague so it's unclear to me if it was due to him being a Christian, or if he was stoned for other crimes. However, bringing up Jesus right before mentioning stoning, makes me think it's possible it was martyrdom.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >I thought the claim was that most scholars accepted the idea that most of the direct disciples were martyred.
                Ive never heard this claim from a secular source and I think even most apologists admit non-christian scholarship is skeptical of this claim.
                Scholars are pretty certain Paul, Peter and James existed, and that their deaths probably had something to do with their activity in the Church, but that for instance, doesn't tell you exactly what James believed about Jesus. It doesn't tell you of Peter, Paul and James all agreed with each others theology.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                User who you quoted.

                I thought the claim being made by OP and a few others was the one I wrote out there, which is something I hear from numerous other Christians offline. Many Christians seem to believe we have extremely strong evidence of eye witnesses of a physical resurrection of Jesus, that match what is explained in the Gospel stories, being martyred.

                I'm curious of the nature of Peter and James' actual experiences, or claimed experiences, were but I have no reason to suspect it would match the Gospel accounts, especially since Paul's experience is so different than what one might expect.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >Many Christians seem to believe we have extremely strong evidence of eye witnesses of a physical resurrection of Jesus, that match what is explained in the Gospel stories, being martyred.
                Many Christians still believe the gospels are eyewitness or closely related accounts, and that the stories of the martyrdom of the apostles come from similarly reliable sources. Neither of these ideas is widely accepted in critical scholarship.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Also if Paula experience counts then many similar examples count. Many people believe they talked to God and died for it..

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                If a mass execution for your beliefs doesn't count then there's nothing in christianity that counts either

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                What part of thousands of people dying for their witness based belief are you not getting?

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Yeah, thousands of saxons died for their witness based belief. Wtf is your problem?

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                I am getting it, thousands witnessed Mohammed's miracles and died for him, what are YOU not getting about it?

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                I don't dispute that people died for him so he does indeed existed, but where are the thousands of people dying for their witness based beliefs of his miracles?

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >where are the thousands of people dying for their witness based beliefs of his miracles
                Everyone who joined him in his time, they witnessed his miracles and fought for him, which resulted in dying or at least putting oneself at risk of death for him.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Now you're just repeating yourself, without answering the question.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                You're not addressing the facts that
                1. Mohammed performed miracles
                2. People witnessed them
                3. They fought and died for him as a result

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >1. Mohammed performed miracles
                is this true? I know nothing about islam. I thought the only miracle Mohammed did was talk to God in the mountains.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                No sir the Hadith attributes many mistakes to him and many witnesses. This includes splitting the moon in half and ascending to heaven on a Pegasus

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                The "witness based belief" part. Could you define that? Is a person dying for their belief in Christianity in 1989 dying for "witness based belief"? What have they witnessed that they base their belief in Christianity on?

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                A belief which is based upon witnessing it.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >upon witnessing it
                Witnessing what?

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                The belief? Retard?

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                How do you witness a belief?

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                I witness you pick up a pen. I have the belief you picked up a pen.
                Simple isn't it anon? Wowzers.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                That's not what you said but ok.

                So is the witnessed phenomena Jesus, his ministry, his crucifixion? If so, where are these thousands of Christians who witnessed this and died for believing in it? Can you provide a source for them? Or do you count in people who didn't actually witness these things, but believe in second, or third hand accounts from people who witnessed them? Because how is their belief witness based?

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >pagans witnessed an event and believe because of it and died for it
                >No not that one
                >muslims witnessed an event and believed because of it and died for it
                >No not that one
                I'm pretty sure the bahi prophet claimed miracles and witnesses that were martyred as well.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Mow many of the thousands of Christians who died for it witnessed Jesus rise from the dead? How many left written records affirming this?

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Trust me. I am the wondering israelite. While I no longer have the records, I can attest to seeing them within my long life. I even confirmed it with 500 of them through their own testimony. I had a brief love affair with one, to which I remain haunted from.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >islam
        >no not witness based. Just because they witnessed miracles and were motivated by them and died for them doesn't make it that.
        >

        Plenty of Martyrs in Sikhism, including major figures. It's likely those following Guru Arjan, were also killed under Jahangir's rule, but we do not have their names.

        Later you had the three followers of Guru Tegh Bahadur who were boiled alongside him when they could have rejected what they witnessed and survived by converting to Islam.

        There are a ton of matyrs in early Mormonism, too many to name. Most of them weren't given the chance to renounce their faith formally, but they could have easily abandoned the cause lived, but instead chose to live a life where they could easily be killed.

        Does Communism count? If so, Liu Hulan and Jiang Zhuyun.
        Did the sikhs claim miracles

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          I know that sikhs have miracle claims in their early history. I would assume that part of the reason they had a following was because of this.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Ok well now all you gotta do is show that the people who believed they saw miracles died for their beliefs. Probably not the case face it Christianity seems to be different from other religions (of course all religions seem to differ in some ways but shut up)

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              Do your own homework

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                if i wanted to read a book why would i be on LULZ homosexual?

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      to larpers like OP it means people make a claim that supports his religion because they totally saw it and he believes it without question, even if it later turns out their evidence against said claim, or even if the people who made said claim later on admit they made the whole thing up

  3. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    oh no... the "dead saints are proofs" schizo is back.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Answer the question doe.

  4. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Literally every religion has them.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Name one, just one, please.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Heaven’s gate

  5. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Nazism

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      I said witness based belief, not political ideologies.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Nazism, not neo-nazism, was witnessed based. The German people and Hitler's supporters witnessed his rise to power and were willing to kill and die in the thousands to realize his vision.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      This.

      I said witness based belief, not political ideologies.

      >nobody has ever died for their beliefs....
      >NO NOT THOSE BELIEFS
      Plenty of people have died for religions other than Christianity. If you were honest in any capacity whatsoever you would consneed right here but you won't. You'll just keep moving goalposts.

      Marxism is basically a religion and plenty have willingly died for it. You can't disagree with this without looking like a coping tankie btw.

  6. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >A time after Petronius’ arrival in the port city of Ptolemais he was met by tens of thousands of israelites who travelled from the countryside to petition him not to violate the laws of their forefathers. The resolve of the israeli people was so strong that if Petronius was intent on erecting the statue of Caesar, they would willingly bare their necks and die rather than break their traditional laws. Noting the incredible dedication of the peasant crowds, Petronius elected to travel inland to Tiberias along the Sea of Galilee to survey the resolve and convictions of israeli peasants there.

    Note that this was right after Jesus’ time, so these should be the very same israelites who bore collective guilt for Christ’s death. Obviously they were pretty self-assured though, being willing to die for their faith, so they must have been right about everything including rejecting Jesus

  7. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Plenty of Martyrs in Sikhism, including major figures. It's likely those following Guru Arjan, were also killed under Jahangir's rule, but we do not have their names.

    Later you had the three followers of Guru Tegh Bahadur who were boiled alongside him when they could have rejected what they witnessed and survived by converting to Islam.

    There are a ton of matyrs in early Mormonism, too many to name. Most of them weren't given the chance to renounce their faith formally, but they could have easily abandoned the cause lived, but instead chose to live a life where they could easily be killed.

    Does Communism count? If so, Liu Hulan and Jiang Zhuyun.

  8. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous
  9. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    No one knows how the apostles actually died. The martyrdoms are all made-up traditions.

  10. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >”Christians” bullying virgins with a marvel meme
    Lmao you clowns have completely lost the plot

  11. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >Christ claimed miracles
    >people saw those miracles
    >They were willing to die for this belief because they saw the miracles and knew it was true
    >No other religion works like this
    >therefore Christianity is true
    I mean 1.how do you know they actually saw the miracle they just claimed they did? Especially considering you implicitly admit people are willing to die for non-witness based beliefs, surely then they are willing to lie for them 2.even so why should this prove anything, mass delusions happen all the time. Even Jesus says you shouldn't believe something just cause you witnessed mircales you should believe without seeing.

  12. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    perhaps some lie north korea told?

  13. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    only 11 people witnessed Jesus miracles and resurrection. The actual christians Nero threw into fire werent alive during Jesus.

  14. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Jehova's Witnesses. Their faith is witness-based (it's right in the name) and 1490 of them died in the Holocaust for their faith. This proves that Jesus is actually the archangel Michael, sorry OP.

  15. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Vikings, who seek glorious death because they believed Odin would invite them to Valhalla and to fight with him when Ragnarok happen.

  16. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Pretty much any political ideology
    >inb4 it doesn't count
    You didn't say said beliefs had to be religious beliefs. And political ideology is usually about as rational as religious beliefs regardless.

  17. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    so, you pulled this meaningless 'witness-based' shit from the obvious orifice and are running around with it now? why not go full wharrgarbl if your clever plan is to avoid making sense and crow that nobody responds?

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