Anyone else read this? What a charming book. The Japs have done it again Posted on May 24, 2023 by Anonymous Anyone else read this? What a charming book. The Japs have done it again
Read it last year. The incel she lets stay at jer place was based af. Good book. Bought it twice to gift to other people.
God, I hate Japanese “literature”. You’d think that from centuries of subjugating the Chinese they’d absorb some of their literary spirit, but no.
I’ve noticed redditors have recently really started hating anything to do with japanese culture. Why is that?
contrarians gonna contraire
It's Trump tourists thinking JAPAN BAD, which is just as retarded as automatic JAPAN GOOD
Because the Japanese have a complicated history and something which cannot immediately be considered good or evil must therefore be evil.
Redditors hate that an ethnically homogenous society is cleaner, safer, and has more functional infrastructure than Western nations. Japan's existence makes the flaws of multiculturalism more obvious. Sorry for the pol-tier answer, but it is the actual answer in this case.
Yep. The weeaboo dorks finally realized that racist immigration policies make great countries stay great and they can't cope.
I’m fine with Japanese anime, manga, and even light novels. When it comes to real big boy books though, they’re hopeless.
Mishima is good, though I agree I've been dissapointed by alot of japanese lit I've read. Unironically, outside of Mishima, Marie Kondo is my favorite japanese author and westerners either adore or despise her.
Have you read Snow Country? Kawabata is good.
They did. The majority of anime is based in A Journey To The West.
Its the Chinese that subjugated them for centuries though. Quit reading One Piece thats not literature.
Made me realise I'm probably on the spectrum when I started relating to the protagonist, good book
yes what is up with this new phenomenon of people calling japanese stuff "weeb?"
boredpanda.com/i-have-seen-north-korean-people-smiling/ , chinajusticeobserver.com/a/what-is-the-punishment-for-killing-a-panda-in-china
Read it because I often saw it on lit. Not a type of books I generally read but I found it hilarious in some way.
This book has all the aesthetic flair of an A24 film; that is, none. Bored out of my head by the writing, something even along the lines of enforced boredom through writing would have been moderately transgressive given the subject matter, but it just ended up being some twee Japanese shit.
The only thing more obnoxious than A24 hipsters are anti-A24 hipsters
Get a real personality
People constantly make threads on it so probably, finished it a few weeks ago and enjoyed it though I'm not sure I have any strong thoughts on it.
If this was set in Philly and written by some mousy MFA chick none of you would give a fuck.
well yeah not shit thats a completely different book. Could you imagine the protagonist of Convience store woman successfully completing an mfa.
I'm sure the experience of being a lonely sperg in a dead-end service job is "completely different" in contemporary Japan.
Do you think the protag of convenience store woman could complete an mfa.
Written *by*, not about.
>Sayaka Murata went to the Tamagawa University Department of Arts and was then taught by the writer Akio Miyahara at Yokohama Literature School.
>JAPAN CAN'T BE DIFFERENT, IT'S ALL THE SAME AS THE US!!!
You're fucking retarded. 7-11s are only visited by the dregs of society in the US and are generally rundown shitty places run by pajeets. An American character obsessed with his liquor store job would fundamentally be operating in a very different environment and frame of mind.
The main character and Shiraha also face extremely intense pressure to conform to society that creates the entire dilemma/premise of the book, unless you're also stupid enough to assert that American society is a conformist one
7-11s in Japan are great. For around $8 you can get an entire bottle of wine and all the makings of a healthy lunch. You can then go sit in a park and eat/drink because the social trust is high enough that they don't have to ban public drinking. You can't smoke in public though--but they have special outdoor areas set up, that are always clean, and still have heavily vented smoking sections indoors, most of which have water ashtrays that are like a micro-river that carries away your ash/waste.
7-11 pizza and a 3pack of 24oz cans of beer
Grab some snickerdoodles at the counter
and order up some quick picks ,Powerball, Mega...7-11 is not all bad
Japanese people are too sheltered and ignorant to be able to produce literature
>continue working as a cashier at 7/11 even after literary stardom
>write short story about having sex with convenience store
>fun so write semi-autobiographical book about working in 7/11 that becomes a hit
>get a stalker and have to quit working at 7/11:(
>publisher tells you that you can write in their cafeteria
>go there every single day and sit by yourself drawing pictures of people getting eaten by monsters
She's based beyond belief.
I read it with my gf who is Japanese. Do you have a gf who you read books with?
no, im volcel
There's no such thing as a male volcel. Other people make that decision for you.
tells you that you can write in their cafeteria
>go there every single day and sit by yourself drawing pictures of people getting eaten by monsters
That's pretty adorable, anon.
Alright you grabbed my attention, what's the book about?
A hyperautist who works in a convenience store gets a NEET incel to live with her so people will leave her alone.
Everyone seems to read it like a quirky funny book, “so Japanese lmao”, the copy I have has reviewed praise on it for it’s zany nature etc.,
But for me the obvious parallel is No Longer Human, except she’s sublimating an existential crises by working a soulless job which like a win against cynicism and nihilism both.
Which it’s not, obviously—and although the author worked this exact job for many years, she clearly drew on it for the power of her writing and found a meaning that way.
Maybe it’s the case that woman would fear the “Stone Age” because modern gender stratification would reset and the lack of technology would make their lives more perilous/arduous than it would a man’s, so there is an inherent desire to “solve” the problem with such a detached meaning, rather than hoping things crumble, etc.
I don’t know, I haven’t read it in a long time, it wasn’t like the prose would keep me coming back.
I just think it’s a bleak book—more so than NLH, even.
Which is treated like a win*
>she’s sublimating an existential crises by working a soulless job
No she isn't. She's having an existential crisis foisted onto her by normies who won't let her do what she wants to do: devote herself to working in a convenience store. Throughout the book she goes into the various forms of meaning she finds for herself by working there and the crisis comes from the projected labels of others regarding what her job/social position says about her happiness.
Most reviews I've seen interpret the MC as a psychopath.
Shit, this is just a metaphor for Japanese monetary policy
You think that because she is happy with her job it’s not sublimation?
It’s not conscious, that’s the point. The author herself is fully duped by her own tale because she needs to be.
Let me type out the reviews on the copy I have (published by granta):
>a rare treat: a literary prize winner that’s also a page turner… brilliant, witty, and sweet - vogue
>gloriously nutty…irresistible - observer
>quirky, memorable… it could only be Japanese - the times
>this novel made me laugh, absurd, comical, cute…audacious and precise - Hiromi Kawakami
Etc, you get the point. Maybe some people here get it, but so wasn’t talking about that really.
>Etc, you get the point. Maybe some people here get it, but so wasn’t talking about that really.
Some reviews on the back of your copy is vastly different from everybody or even nearly everybody or even a slim majority
>general press and average reader consensus is not literally everyone in the universe
So you’re an autist who is defending one of the few books he can relate to?
It’s called a literary reading. Are you saying that I can’t draw a parallel between a book about being disqualified from being a human from a lack of connection with people and this book? And the hollow capitalistic solution is a feel-good anime ending that works for anyone with an ounce of psychological insight and her knowledge of the author’s own situation?
You don’t have to agree with an author and what they think they mean to get a book.
But clearly I’m talking to people who barely read if they want to defend this mediocre crap.
You can draw as many parallels as you like, but what you apparently can't do is empathize with anyone that doesn't share your neuroses
Thinking that working in a part time job for your entire life and eschewing human relationships is somehow noble and kawaii because it makes her feel happy (according to her own rationalisations!) is not something anyone should respect.
If this was written by a western male, it would be deadbeat loser schlock that no one would have any patience for.
Yeah, you're definitely just protecting your own values here. So what if she lives a life of low ambition? Your only argument for why this is bad is an ex nihilo assertion that she's lying to herself.
You missed the eschewing human relationships part out that was key to my post.
It is a combination. I’m not honouring status—in fact soulless pursuit of wealth is equally as lopsided.
This is not a healthy book and the comedy is largely tragedy.
Feel free to disagree but I’m not really hearing a counter reading.
Just a nitpicking pile on from mad weebs.
The counter reading is that it's totally fine to take her statements at face value and accept that she finds fulfillment in a life of solitude and simplicity
Take it at face value even though it runs counter to everything people desire?
Who is actually satisfied by their work more so than human relationships or at least their own out of work pursuits?
The bitch is describing the hum of the fridge and the glow of the lights like it’s a hug from a love one.
It is sad. Not funny. Not quirky.
It is the product of a society that still in this day and age isn’t clued up on mental illness and what repression and sublimation are.
>Take it at face value even though it runs counter to everything people desire?
Yeah. That's literally the main theme of the book, retard.
But you don’t have to be convinced by it. Because the main character (and author) come to that conclusion!
You fucking autist fucks conflate disagreement with misunderstanding. I get the book. I get what you weeks think it means and what you are told to take from it like good boys.
But it is a cope. An unhealthy, fraudulent message that could only be possible in the modern service economy age.
You accept the conclusions of the protagonist because you went along wi try the ride of the book but none of you would or could live that way, because you know that it’s a cope at based or a disorder at worst.
You're filtered, anon. The connection you're drawing between this book and No Longer Human is superficial and you're completely ignoring the fact the MC is fulfilled by the role she's chosen for herself and hindered by the social expectations of others. Your read is literally what's being criticized in the book and I find it shocking how you can be so completely and utterly filtered.
You're correct I would not live that way because I wouldn't find it satisfying. And yet, somehow, I can still believe her when she says she's happy, because I don't view every other human as a reflection of my own psyche
You talk a big game on human relationships for someone incapable of empathizing with others. Anyway, everything I could say in response here would be repeating myself re: you projecting your values on someone else. I guess I might also add how disgusting I find it when people try so hard to convince happy individuals that actually they're repressed and need help
> I guess I might also add how disgusting I find it when people try so hard to convince happy individuals that actually they're repressed and need help
That's because you're obviously repressing your trauma anon
This guy is like the autism of the MC mixed with the resentful self-important pseudness of the incel she takes on as a pet, kek. He's so filtered it's almost astounding.
You two sticking together in this thread with your lame gotchas has been cute. Once again, criticism of the conceit is not being filtered.
You seem to think because I don’t accept the book’s premise, that I don’t get it.
But not one of you actually agrees with the book. You just like the idea of someone being happy.
The point is, it’s contrived and rooted in the problems of the atomisation of the modern capitalist model where this kind of person can be neglected and somehow even spurred on like this.
My last post because I know you’ll see what I’m saying if you read it and NLH subsequently. While thinking about your own life and motivations for two seconds.
>The point is, it’s contrived and rooted in the problems of the atomisation of the modern capitalist model
The problem is you're a pseud who can't come up with his own take on a book, anon. Stop projecting.
>it’s contrived and rooted in the problems of the atomisation of the modern capitalist model where this kind of person can be neglected and somehow even spurred on like this.
Now this is some neo-socialist drivel, very nice. I especially like the assertion that no human before capitalism ever eschewed human relationships for their work and found satisfaction in it, it's a bold rejection of every species of hermit that ever lived
>this kind of person can be neglected
She isn't neglected. She's suffocated by social relationships/expectations and the main driver of the plot is her trying to escape them by playing along with them. She doesn't understand their value because they simply aren't valuable to how she lives her life. She's hyperconformist in a way others themselves subconsciously idealize, as reflected by her dedication and personal fulfillment in a menial job, but not for the motivations they project onto her; she doesn't want to rise in social status and attain fulfillment in things she (ironically compared to the standard person) sees as superficialities. By forcing her to conform to social expectations they dehumanize her individuality--thats a big part of where the comedy in the novel comes from. She has a deep and fulfiling relationship with the convenience store itself, it is her husband/child and not a substitute for them, and that's something the people around her (and readers like yourself) can't understand.
>She has a deep and fulfiling relationship with the convenience store itself, it is her husband/child and not a substitute for them, and that's something the people around her (and readers like yourself) can't understand.
There’s nothing to understand. It’s bullshit. Only in some fucked up shinto-shocked repressed mind of a frigid lonely bitch could this ever occur.
No, the place doesn’t have a soul. No, you’re not valued for your job. You will be made redundant and or automated you clueless hag.
It is a cope. Plain and simple.
Do you realize the outlook you're adopting is what the book satirizes or is it like when you thought "symbol hunting" had to involve symbols and not simply reading something into a book that isn't there? Your take misses the mark so much that it's almost impressive.
How is symbol hunting not the same thing as finding what you believe to be symbolic of deeper meaning?
You are fucking idiot with no substance. Just keep saying filtered and projection over and over. Ignore the fact that the rationalisations of a deranged protagonist are not to be taken as your personal philosophy just because you liked a book.
Holy projection, kek. We all get filtered sometimes, anon. Stop acting like a petulant pseud and just accept you didn't understand the book. It's how you grow as a reader and, quite frankly, you need to develop some character.
>simply reading something into a book that isn't there?
I didn’t think that’s what symbol hunting could be because it’s the most naive shit I’ve ever heard. Have you ever read any literary theory in your life?
Who is to say it isn’t there?
Did you think any of this was anything more than my opinion?
Have I been trying to reach an autistic tv trope retard who just read his first forray into literature?
You seem awfully upset that people disagreed with your take on the book and were able to provide better ones, anon. You brought the wrong ideas to the table while you were reading it and ended up missing out on what the author had to say (i.e. the point of reading a book). As such, you brought superficial criticism that's boring and contrived instead of broadening your prospective. You're a bad reader and your behavior after having others point this out to you reflects that you're probably a bad person as well.
>You brought the wrong ideas to the table while you were reading it and ended up missing out on what the author had to say (i.e. the point of reading a book)
You’ll cringe at saying this someday. I hope so anyway.
I didn’t realise I was taking to someone who’s clearly too young and or naive in regards to reading in general and how criticism works.
I suppose my first clue was your boner for Japanese literature.
At least go read Mishima or Dazai, you’ll have a harder time bending to the protagonists will this time, and you’ll read some halfway decent prose in the process.
Temple of the Golden Pavilion. Off you go. I look forward to your arson charge.
>talks about prose
Pseud confirmed and now we can laugh at you for referencing "muh prose" in translations, kek. You're a true retard, anon. Work on yourself.
There’s more to prose than superficial styling. The level of introspection in Mishima’s characters, along with the philosophical propositional content and wider imagery are evident regardless of translation or language differences.
You can stop now, your brain is running on buzzwords.
>doesn't know what "prose" means
Here's where I could get pedantic like you yourself did earlier but I'd rather just call you a retard and ask that you not associate yourself with people who appreciate Mishima.
>Who is to say it isn’t there?
Jesus christ, this is called the affective fallacy. But of course someone who didn’t understand symbol hunting wouldn’t know that.
Please shut up and go read some literary theory, start with Richard’s Practical Crticism so you can get a foundation in the formalist New Criticism, then Is there a text in this class to get a taste of reader-response theory, and then read some barthes and derrida so you can understand structuralism and deconstructionism.
Now please stop embarrassing yourself with your lack of knowledge of literary theory when it’s clear you have less than an undergrads understanding of it.
NTA but I want to thank you for the literary theory reqs you just dropped.
The continentals from Barthes onwards would agree with everything I said.
I don’t care about your American shit criticism that no one adheres to outside of a few universities.
>wants us to listen to his opinions on literary criticism
>was completely filtered by Convenience Store Woman
You're all the worst aspects of LULZ rolled into one poster. Kek.
You were trying to flex with a word sale of read this and read that but then you started saying Barthes, someone who is specifically famous for not giving author intent the pedestal that you two in this thread have been doing.
Just completely beside the point anyway, since there’s many approaches to criticism that I don’t have to accept—I’ve given my criticism of a book, not defended an interpretative framework.
Prose has many facets. It’s weird how you keep trying to make me out to be a pedant and an autist while trying to latch into specific words like crazy.
>Barthes, someone who is specifically famous for not giving author intent the pedestal that you two in this thread have been doing.
Jesus fucking christ. No one is talking about Death of the author here!!! No one is talking about her intention. I specifically mentioned affective fallacy where you believe you can read anything you want into a text. Only pseuds who know nothing about literary theory think barthes’ death of the author essay means you can read whatever you want into it. Have you even read that essay?
And by the way, it didn’t start with barthes you dolt. It goes all the way back to the intentional fallacy and the formalists New Critical school.
Oh my god, what’s that word for someone so stupid they don’t even onow they don’t know.
>mentioned affective fallacy where you believe you can read anything you want into a text
But I don’t think you can read anything into the text. I offered very specific things that corroborate with the fact that the protagonist has psychological problems that exist in the real world, that the author actually did that job, the wider service economy framework.
You can make it sound like you know what you’re saying to some people with name dropping schools and theories but no, you fucked up from the start.
Sorry, you tried to bring up theory and then revealed how little you know and now you’re just trying to cope. I mean, who goes from barthes death of the author in one post to using the author’s bio in the next? Stick to your marvel movies, mr. redditor.
Do you think this guy is being retarded on purpose? How can anybody lack self-awareness to this degree?
Has to be. Can’t believe I wasted my time on this.
I appreciated your effort and found things you brought up worthy of looking into further.
If you followed my actually point all the way through (who can even be bothered with how many posts this is taking), you will remember that I was originally saying that the author may well have intended to portray the book in the light that others agree on, but that her attempt to do that rings false because her own convenience store job was clearly not enough meaning because she used it to launch her writing, which is part of the human feeling that needs to be expressed outwardly to people.
Her act is a direct contradiction of the conclusions of the protagonist and a good reason why I found it so revolting.
It’s not about intent but about the juxtaposition of how I’m reading it in the first place as a contradiction against the takeaway from the protagonist.
Which is why I see it as a darker book than most. It is all a consolation from the character.
All you two have done is insult, gaslight and talk like social conformists. Pretty ironic for people rallying around this book.
>don’t you know you’re wrong guy
>how much do you lack awareness
>your take is wrong because we don’t see it
Anon, you're retarded. Murata liked working in a convenience store and continued to do so until her fame lead to a stalker and forced her to quit. The MC gains fulfilment from working in the store and it comes to represent things traditionally associated with personal fulfillment. The store functions like a fulfilling relationship and is not just a substitute for one and this is juxtaposed against the social expectations others project while not even being conscious of their value. You can comment about capitalism but the thrust of the book is more complicated than simple ideas of commodification and depersonalization--the MC is depersonalized by social expectations and the tragedy would be her not choosing to go back to the aspect of her life that gave her a sense of purpose and meaning.
You were filtered by the book because you didn't take the opportunity to rethink your understanding of the concepts you brought to the table. That makes your criticism not only contrived but rather boring. On top of that you're also an idiot who couldn't have a conversation with people who disagree with you or defend your ideas without crying victim--youre a pathetic person and it's sad to see someone who thinks they take reading seriously but doesn't actually get any personal benefit from it. You suck, anon.
>The store functions like a fulfilling relationship and is not just a substitute for one and this is juxtaposed against the social expectations others project while not even being conscious of their value
But saying that it functions as an actual relationship and not a substitute is just insane. Fundamentally insane.
This is not a take about keeping up with the Joneses. It’s just not letting people that tell you they’re happy with their mental illness get a pass.
It’s that simple.
I defended my take for hours while getting called a shit loads and didn’t care, I’m just pointing out the irony.
It's certainly not normal but the negative pathologies she experiences come from aspects of the social world she sees as meaningless. Wearing her smock reflects the best aspects of herself whereas civies are a uniform (she merely copies what others wear to fulfill the obligation of being a social animal). Work for her is trying to make it seem like she's buying into the rat race others take for granted; if you view things from her perspective there isn't any value in social contrivances and they're absurd. Marxist labels like alienation don't cleanly apply--she defines herself through her relationship with the store and who is anyone to tell her it's a worthless pursuit when it not only fulfills her but is also an outlet for a larger sense of belonging? Her individuality is threatened by the outside projections of others telling her what she should strive toward when the fact is she's happier than everyone else with far less concern (albeit the impositions of others are a large concern for her and drive the novel). She not only lives in a small world but thrives in it.
>I regurgitated nonsense about le capitalism
We know, retard. Also, Murata liked working in a Convenience Store and continued to do so after becoming famous. That stands in contrast to your retarded take and does t prove it you absolute retard. Holy shit you're dumb.
>You were trying to flex with a word sale of read this
That wasn't me.
>prose has many facets
Shut up, pseud. One argument over semantics because you're a retard trying to save face is enough. You were filtered by Sayaka Murata. That on its own is enough to disregard everything you want to misguidedly regurgitate but the fact you're acting like a petulant crybaby because the only person convinced of your intelligence is yourself seals the deal. Stop embarrassing yourself and just go read a book you won't understand, kek.
>calls out others in their literary theory
>gets absolutely shit in for his lack of literary theory knowledge
>n-no I don’t actually care about literary theory
Nice cope, mr. redditor.
That doesn’t work*
I never defended the book. You don't have very good reading comprehension. And now you're seething because other people called you out on your shit theory (which also has nothing to do with defending the book).
But you tried, mr. redditor.
>It’s called a literary reading
It's called symbol hunting, i.e. you make up a theory that's not supported by the text by grabbing onto a few things here and there and forcing them into an interpretation that doesn't work. Take any literature class above level 100 and you'll learn about it.
I love reading essays that push symbol hunting to its limits
It’s not symbol hunting, I used no symbolism whatsoever.
The type of psychological disorder displayed in the book is not something that needs to be interpreted by an egg and the moon rising or something.
It really is telling though that someone writes a feel good story from a mentally ill perspective in this day and age and people try their hardest to see the positives in it.
It is a repulsive read in so many ways.
>getting off the hedonic treadmill is mental illness
symbol hunting != symbolism
I’ve never heard of your internet term.
Sounds vague and like gay trope shit.
A reading is a reading, it requires you to interpret what you feel is or isn’t there.
>It’s not symbol hunting, I used no symbolism whatsoever.
Saying that I’m fishing for symbols to attach a meaning to is somehow not looking for symbolism?
You're being autistically pedantic over "symbol" and missing the forest for the trees. It explains why you're so filtered by the book though.
Says the person who called me a retard for not accepting the internet trope term of the month?
It was a redundant point to begin with
>you’re just reading it for conclusions and shit man!
I'm calling you a retard because you're demonstrably retarded. That statement is partially based on the fact you're clearly filtered by the book and also based on the fact you got pedantic over the word "symbol" instead of recognizing the criticism of your take fits.
Not him, but frankly it sounds like you're just making shit up about someone else's personal experience because you can't comprehend it yourself
I think you're filtered because the book is criticizing the type of person you in fact are. The MC is happy living her life and finds personal meaning in a social position that others look down on. She doesn't care about status and takes joy in doing her job to the best of her ability.
>quirky funny book
Honestly never seen anyone interpret it like that in any of the threads on LULZ and I've seen quite a few of them.
Maybe if you're on reddit or goodreads you might see some reviews along those lines. But it's definintely not anywhere close to "Everyone"
Nihilism is just an illusion, anything that dispels it is obviously a win
Anything that dispels nihilism can only be an illusion.
I liked this book especially for its super-flat, super-deadpan writing. It succeeds by virtue of its incredibly awkward style. I was disappointed in the follow-up, Earthlings, because the prose seemed more ‘alive’ in a bad way.
I'm about to read life ceremony, what am I in for?
>Japanese women will literally find a life of fulfillment working in a konbini instead of going to therapy
how do I get a job like this in the west? the culture is too different. i'd fear for my life everyday if i had to work this kind of job. it sucks. i think i'd enjoy it..
Working on an assembly line is probably the closest thing to the book but if you want personal fulfillment you'd probably have to do manual labor. Masonry or something.
why do you guys have to fight
>autistic pseud is filtered by the book
>anons explain why he's wrong and provide better takes
>autistic pseud gets upset and derails the thread
>making fun of him for being a retard becomes the priority
Checked but are you new?
Better takes? You literally just took away the easy thing that the narrator is directly telling you.
Not my take but even if it were that's better than regurgitating a bunch of pseud shit about capitalism that ironically demonstrates your weren't even aware the author was making fun of you. Kek.
Basically I gave a reading that didn’t put the book in the quirky positive light that these two posters wanted to weeb-out to.
They preceded to try and get me in the rope with autistic gotchas for far too long and now I’m running out of steam and wondered why I even bothered.
Wait til the refrigerator at the store hears about this!
You guys need to watch I’m a Cyborg and that’s OK. It’s Korean and I know you weebs might feel wrong about that, but it really demonstrates the difference between understand a protagonist and rooting for her.
It's incredible how easy to read (in jap) is this one. I still get filtered by many LNs and VNs but I can read a lot from this.
Highly recommended if you're learning jap.
Any other recommendations for easy novels to read?