Anyone else feel like there was an unstated subtext to the character of Nazi Germany that went beyond, even against, their overtly stated goals for society, the muh volkisch people community and nation building kind of stuff? A kind of, dare I say it, ecstatic death cult that wanted to annihilate more than anything, and grew from a constant (perhaps understandable) feeling of disgust at the world and the other humans inhabiting it.
No, not really
There were some death cult-ish aspects in the fascist/natsoc obsession with military life and war and the idolization of ”heroic death” in a way that goes above the usual patriotic myths, but I can’t really grip the thing you are proposing.
I get what OP is saying. Consider for example how no other society in human history (that I am aware of) would ever have deployed SS Dirlewanger. And remember how Hitler gave the Nero order in the end. The Nazi leadership really felt like that was the Götterdämmerung. I think what OP is describing came as a result of the end of the war. In just few years Germany had transformed from a civilian economy to using Volksturm units.
>Consider for example how no other society in human history (that I am aware of) would ever have deployed SS Dirlewanger.
you are a retard
pic related, not even a penal unit but the fucking king
the soviets put equivalent units in the field on the east front and also conducted scorched earth tactics
A death cult is like jonestown, where the aim actually is suicide. The nazis never aimed at killing themselves
I was not aware of ancient Assyrians deliberately forming military units from convicts and mental asylum patients. And here is the key difference between just brutality and the nazis. Dirlewanger brigade was more than happy to attack their allies in the absence of enemies. War was a method to achieve cruelty to them, and not the other way around. This was evidently clear when they attacked hospitals treating German soldiers. The geopolitical aims of the reich were irrelevant to them.
>I was not aware of ancient Assyrians deliberately forming military units from convicts and mental asylum patients
The Assyrians didn't have a concept of mental illness you massive fucking retard. They wouldn't see the difference between Dirlewanger and any other man who is capable of carrying out a plan. The Dirlewanger Brigade and other "anti-partisan" efforts were essentially performing this
across Eastern Europe, excessive cruelty meant to cow the rest of the population into compliance. Inhuman brutality has always had its use to groups that are willing to use it.
>Assyrians didn't have a concept of mental illness
Great, so you admit that SS Dirlewanger was a unique product of the Third Reich.
I love how you completely ignored my larger point, and proceeded to seethe and shit yourself instead.
He carried out the aims of the Reich by being an amoral psychopath, which he was. If you can't understand this then you're retarded. But the aims of the Reich were thought up by people who were just amoral, just like the Assyrians were when they skinned their enemies. I'm sure you can imagine that some undocumented Assyrians flayer whose name and life is lost to history could have also been what we would call a psychopath, which by your argument is what's missing from Assyria.
You're so fucking stupid holy shit. How did killing German soldiers in a hospital help the geopolitical goals of Germany?
>Consider for example how no other society in human history (that I am aware of) would ever have deployed SS Dirlewanger.
For most of human history warfare has mainly consisted of war bands ravaging the enemy’s territory, burning crops, plundering and massacring villages etc.
Read Miguel Serrano and you’ll understand
Something like that, but I don't think there's a satisfactory explanation yet for this phenomenon. It's like what Zizek said about the difference with Stalinism being that gulag inmates would have to write birthday letters to Stalin, which was crazy, but you couldn't imagine the Nazis forcing garden gnomes to do that in concentration camps. The garden gnomes were guilty for "who they were" on the basis of their biology, they didn't require the garden gnomes confess to their crimes before killing them.
Also the industrialized nature of it. Moishe Postone described the Nazi "revolution" as a short-circuited anti-capitalism. People work in factories and produce goods which have concrete "use values" that fill a particular want or need, but are split off from and sold back to people with an abstract exchange value (price tag). The Nazi revolt then targeted this "evil" and sinister abstract dimension of speculation, finance, and money vs. "healthy" and "natural" productive labor (and industry and technology), but all of this was also biologized, so you get industrial death factories employed in the service of destroying the Nazis' personification of abstract forces, represented by the garden gnomes.
And this was done by tattooing garden gnomes with numbers, shaving their heads, turning them into abstractions, and then eradicating them and processing what was left of them (clothes, gold teeth, hair, etc.) The Nazis believed that by doing this, they were saving the world from evil. If you think about it that way, the Nazis "lost the war" against the Allies. But what they were "at war" with was abstraction, which includes things like... abstract reasoning or thought and just negating the whole Enlightenment. It's like a black void. You couldn't expect mercy from them.
There was a heavily irrational quality to this kind of thing. And they succeeded in murdering six million garden gnomes and more or less destroying the European gnomish culture.
(me)
Maybe it's like bestial or animal-like, a degradation to human beings before we were doing complex reasoning. That's where it ends and I think that describes real hardcore Nazism. It cuts the last thread that connects humans with civilization and that can only end one way. It's a very frightening thing.
>Anyone else feel like there was an unstated subtext to the character of Nazi Germany that went beyond, even against, their overtly stated goals for society, the muh volkisch people community and nation building kind of stuff?
Yes
>A kind of, dare I say it, ecstatic death cult that wanted to annihilate more than anything, and grew from a constant (perhaps understandable) feeling of disgust at the world and the other humans inhabiting it.
No
You're correct but I wouldn't call it a death cult. More of a group of fanatical idealists cutting out what they regard as the cancer on humanity's soul.
There was nothing bestial about the acts of the germans. Everything was cold and calculated. There was no room for simple minded bigotry in the holocaust.
don't reply if you just have surface level knowledge of the period
> And only with Naziism did the state push that death cult mentality as a hyper-aggressive political policy against other countries and supposed racial or ideological enemies whether within their own borders or without.
jesse_wtf_r_u_talking_about.jpg
> Group of fanatical idealists cutting out what they regard as the cancer on humanity's soul.
Yep. That's your typical death cult stuff here.
Great post. I agree but really have nothing to add. Rather I'd like to see you expand further particularly on the second to last paragraph.
>There's been an element of that in basically all Germanic militaries ever. It wasn't an element unique to Nazism.
You're right. But only with Naziism was it a movement endorsed by the state that reached into every facet of German life. And only with Naziism did the state push that death cult mentality as a hyper-aggressive political policy against other countries and supposed racial or ideological enemies whether within their own borders or without.
I can't really expand much more on the death factory stuff. This is pretty interesting though and goes into some of the "will to power" stuff in Nazism:
There was also Nazi theorist Alfred Rosenberg whose main argument was that man lacks a soul but is guided by "intuition," and "great men" such as Hitler could inspire their followers by appealing to their intuition, like religious readers. Hitler is said to have thought Rosenberg's ideas were silly, but they still promoted some of that stuff. They believed in a hierarchy of races and nations with the German race-nation at the top of the animal kingdom with a right to subjugate inferior races.
It's like an ideology of "life" and "life is for living" and enthusiasm for life, but life is seen as competitive animal struggle. I think that's what makes it so scary. It's the beast.
>There was nothing bestial about the acts of the germans. Everything was cold and calculated.
That sounds pretty bestial though, like an animal hunting its prey.
That's a good basis for further thought on this. Thanks for the well-thought out responses anon.
>irritate me to the core of my being
Good, good. Seethe more and more. I like it.
As an aside, anyone that finds this discussion interesting should read Gravity's Rainbow by Pynchon. It's LULZ but extremely LULZ and is probably responsible in part for germinating this whole concept in my mind. Captain Blicero sends his regards
Yeah, they were really butthurt about losing the first world war. It's a sense of humiliation and a desperation to prove themselves at any cost.
It wasn't subtext, but rather a classic example of structural convergence of extreme mindset. When you decide to battle against the entire world, your stated aims no longer matter, and self-destruction is the only option left, you have reached a point of no return.
So much bullshit on this thread.
>. When you decide to battle against the entire world,
Sure, let's all pretend that they didn't have allies
National Socialism was an answer to Nihilism and the Death of God, It was mostly based around Nietzsche's philosophy.
> let's all pretend that they didn't have allies
They would turn against them in the same way that Hitler turned against Stalin.
Nah, With the Exception of Mussolini, Most of them didn't have any Geopolitical or Ideological issues with the Germans.
Germany's allies in Europe were a joke. They started a war that the major European powers warned them not to start, then got fucking wrecked. They had no one to blame but themselves.
>ecstatic death cult that wanted to annihilate more than anything
There's been an element of that in basically all Germanic militaries ever. It wasn't an element unique to Nazism.
I mean, the "Totenkopf" skull and crossbones symbol the SS used had been used by the Prussian military since the early 19th century.
>I mean, the "Totenkopf" skull and crossbones symbol the SS used had been used by the Prussian military since the early 19th century.
Which means
>According to a writing by Reichsführer-SS Heinrich Himmler, the Totenkopf had the following meaning:
>The Skull is the reminder that you shall always be willing to put your self at stake for the life of the whole community.[13]
The same meaning that it always had.
I'm so weary of the Shills on this board.
I've heard it was an art project on a national level.
like picture a flashmob except it's also a mass shooting to "make a statement" or something.
and really that statement is one of utter and complete despair and irrational range and anger being lashed out at popular cultural enemies.
then again I'm also partial to the depiction of hitler's conception in "From Hell"
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>Japan.
Also had the death cultic character but not in the same all-encompassing way of Nazi Germany where it reached so far into civilian life. They had an Emperor who was supposed to be above the military dictatorship in authority. Kids in school weren't taught to revere Tojo.
The fact that you're pointing to something from ancient history works against your point. A modern state in Christian Europe acting like ancient pagans, and armed with weaponry that savage ancients couldn't even have imagined, and inviting all the rest of the world, especially much better armed and powerful opponents, to join in the slaughter. Surreal.
>>Consider for example how no other society in human history (that I am aware of) would ever have deployed SS Dirlewanger.
>no other society in human history (that I am aware of) would ever have deployed SS Dirlewanger.
>no other society in human history would ever have deployed SS Dirlewanger.
You make a claim (no society in human history was so cruel)
I disprove your claim (ashurbanipal)
Now you are moving the goalposts
In mexico, a very catholic and christian country, the (christian, at least in name) cartels reign with a terror that equals or even passes that of the dirlewanger brigade. Atrocities happen in every conflict, even fucking chimpanzees are capable of committing war crimes.
You're a retard, making claims which are moronic and when I confront you with your retardation. You do not know what a death cult is, nor do you have any knowledge of the axis beyond a surface understanding gleamed from history channel docus and hollywood movies.
>t. retard with 0 factual knowledge of the 3rd reich
How the fuck Ashurbanipal wasn't a death cult?
>king slaughters his enemies because humans are cruel
>also creator of the first great library, regards his erudition and scholarship as his most important achievement
>literal brainlets """" How the fuck Ashurbanipal wasn't a death cult?""""
what are you? 18?
>t. retard with 0 factual knowledge of the 3rd reich
>Also had the death cultic character
See
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>"Death cult" usually implies that they have the goal of committing national suicide.
>A death cult is like jonestown, where the aim actually is suicide. The nazis never aimed at killing themselves
And don't forget
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>Oh, You're that homosexual that keeps using pics of anime girls. Go have a nice day.
JDFI shill
Almost. The actual goal of the Nazis was to get all races to kill each other until only one (presumed to be the strongest) remains to inherit the Earth. They viewed this as an improvement to the human gene pool and as a final solution to the problem of racism. The NSDAP was a Genocide Cult.
Addiction to a false feeling of victory. When there's some minority fascists can ruthlessly stomp on they feel like they're winning. Doesn't matter if their own situation is getting worse or they aren't achieving political goals, as long as they're hurting THOSE GUYS against their will and dominating them they get that victory high. It's like a national self-esteem boosting program, they get to feel successful and powerful without the hard work of accomplishing anything.
>this entire thread
Ah yes, this thread on LULZ, the board that loves citing sources and trusting the experts who wrote those sources and agreeing on what sources we rely on and how to interpret them.
garden gnomes are really insidious creatures, the sheer amount of passive aggressiveness and dissimulation that they possess irritate me to the core of my being, The more time I expend on this board, the more antisemitic I become.
>I can't really expand much more on the death factory stuff.
Of course you can't do it, It's bullshit.
>They believed in a hierarchy of races
All racists do. That's the whole meaning of it.
>German race-nation at the top of the animal kingdom with a right to subjugate inferior races.
There's no German race, there was the Germanic /Nordic and the German/ Deutsch nation, and the German nation has differents racial branches with their own particular traits.
>Each race gave its best strength. Each contributed to the German soul We Germans have a fighting spirit, a look to the horizon, the “desire to do a thing for its own sake” of the Nordic race. Another racial soul gave us our cozy old cities and our depth. Yet another racial soul gave us mastery of the magical realm of music. Yet another gave us our ability to organize, and our silent obedience. §We can not hold it against anyone if he carries a variety of racial lines, for the German soul does as well, and created out of it the immeasurable riches which it possesses above all other nations.
>Yet another
>Yet another
>Yet another
> All racists do. That's the whole meaning of it.
I don't. Races are real, but not a single one is truly superior. Whites have better IQ, one of the African races can run faster, and so on. It isn't worth chimping out on one another. Imagine if all scientists and generals hated each other. Neither one is superior, they all need to learn to cooperate. Society needs both. Diversity is a real meaning of racism!
>. Whites have better IQ, one of the African races can run faster, and so on. It isn't worth chimping out on one another. Imagine if all scientists and generals hated each other. Neither one is superior, they all need to learn to cooperate. Society needs both
That's pretty much the meaning of the quote from an NSDAP article that I've posted.
But in the case of miscegenation, some combinations may be more destructive to our species than constructive.
Not an argument, and you're either a deranged garden gnome or just a retard mutt with mediocre historical knowledge.
>Not an argument
Neither is
>t. retard with 0 factual knowledge of the 3rd reich
or
>and you're either a deranged garden gnome or just a retard mutt with mediocre historical knowledge.
Now tell me about how the Nazi oligarchy totally wasn't a cult that believed in social darwinism and race war, but a group of perfectly honest nationalists who loved Germany just like they said, and how they were right/wrong about everything including the inherent evil of the gnomish/German race
If one race can do something better that is relevant on a greater magnitude of societal arenas, then it is superior. Whites are therefore superior to the rest.
Running away from Hyenas is no longer relevant.
>Society needs both. Diversity is a real meaning of racism!
Couldn't agree more.
garden gnomed shills are getting wrecked by based bros aware of actual history. Great thread
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/pol/ack vague threats and quoting from Mein Kampf in the absence of any will to do as the NSDAP actually did. A pathetic misshapen stillborn of a once powerful movement.