All Suffering comes from God


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There is sanctification in suffering. God makes you suffer for His purposes. Pic related.

  1. 7 months ago
    Anonymous

    What book is this?

    • 7 months ago
      Anonymous

      The Catechism Explained by Fr. Spirago but the sections on providence seem more Protestant than Catholic. They must be drawing from Augustinian influence.

      Here's some other passages:

      1. God maintains the world, i.e., He preserves all creatures in existence as long as He wills.
      A ball hanging from a piece of string falls to the ground as soon as the string is cut. So the whole world would sink into nothing if God were to withdraw from it His supporting power for a single instant. In order that creatures may continue to exist, He provides all that is needed for their sustenance: wheat, vegetables, the various fruits of the earth, etc. As soon as God wills it, they die.

      2. God governs the world, i.e., He conducts all things in the world, so that they contribute to His glory and to our advantage.
      What the engine is to the train, and the pilot to the vessel, God is to the world. He guides the stars according to fixed laws, so that the firmament proclaims His glory. He guides all nations (Dan. iv. 32). We see His guiding hand in the lives of the patriarchs, in the history of the israelites, in that of the Christian Church.

      NOTHING HAPPENS TO US ALL THROUGH OUR LIVES WITHOUT THE WILL OR THE PERMISSION OF GOD.
      Hence the patriarch Joseph says to his brethren, “Not by your counsel was I sent hither, but by the will of God” (Gen. xlv. 8). Our Lord says that the very hairs of our head are all numbered, i.e., the providence of God descends to the smallest details of our life. Hence there is nothing that happens by chance. There are indeed many things, the causes of which we are ignorant of, but all have some cause, and God guides all.

      • 7 months ago
        Anonymous

        >The Catechism Explained by Fr. Spirago
        Yikes

        • 7 months ago
          Anonymous

          This is also similar to Mother Theresa's view. She's not in heaven IMO but that's another subject. Theresa also seems to be drawing from Augustinian influence.

          We are at Jesus' disposal. If he wants you to be sick in bed, if he wants you to proclaim His work in the street, if he wants you to clean the toilets all day, that's all right, everything is all right. We must say, "I belong to you. You can do whatever you like." And this ..is our strength, and this is the joy of the Lord.
          Mother Teresa

          I think it is very beautiful for the poor to accept their lot, to share it with the passion of Christ. I think the world is being much helped by the suffering of the poor people.
          Mother Teresa

      • 7 months ago
        Anonymous

        It's so retarded to try to frame this as argument that God is good. I agree with you that God is responsible for everything that happens on earth and that makes him a retarded evil sadist. The fact that the world wouldn't exist without God is an argument in favor of the idea that God should be destroyed at all costs so that nobody has to live on this retarded hell world of pain and suffering anymore. This world is not good, existing is not good, the fact that God sustains the world so that he can torture people in it is not good. Even if he had any sort of "good intentions" like "heaven" it wouldn't matter or make him good because nothing can justify forcing people to exist in this retarded hell-world. Heaven probably sucks. I'm not interested in going there whatsoever. I would rather not exist than Go to heaven. I wish I never existed. There's nothing that God can do or say that will justify him forcing people to exist so that he can dominate and abuse them.

        • 7 months ago
          Anonymous

          We all agreed to this before coming down to Earth. Granted, it's easy to accept the terms when you're a giddy pre-baby who hasn't felt any suffering yet, without truly understanding what you're getting into
          Don't you remember?

          >God must have the same view of good and evil as man
          Why do people assume this?
          Is this assumption really necessary for the existence of a benevolent God to be logically consistent?
          We humans can't see the bigger picture

          • 7 months ago
            Anonymous

            >We all agreed to this before coming down to Earth
            This is a retarded lie.

            >Why do people assume this?
            I didn't assume anything about God's perspective because there's nothing that he could say to try to justify his behavior that I would consider a valid argument. I have no reason to value God's perspective more than my own except that he can punish me for believing he's evil. I don't accept that God can just define himself as good no matter what he does.

            • 7 months ago
              Anonymous

              Who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will a pot say to the potter "why have you made me like this"?

              • 7 months ago
                Anonymous

                I'm someone who knows from direct personal experience that God is evil because he forced me to exist so that he could abuse and dominate me in his shitty world. Pots aren't conscious. If humans create an AI then yes I'm sure it will ask why they made it.

          • 7 months ago
            Anonymous

            >God isn't responsible
            >but you are
            >but you shouldn't be
            >just trust me bro
            >Disney.png

            It's so retarded to try to frame this as argument that God is good. I agree with you that God is responsible for everything that happens on earth and that makes him a retarded evil sadist. The fact that the world wouldn't exist without God is an argument in favor of the idea that God should be destroyed at all costs so that nobody has to live on this retarded hell world of pain and suffering anymore. This world is not good, existing is not good, the fact that God sustains the world so that he can torture people in it is not good. Even if he had any sort of "good intentions" like "heaven" it wouldn't matter or make him good because nothing can justify forcing people to exist in this retarded hell-world. Heaven probably sucks. I'm not interested in going there whatsoever. I would rather not exist than Go to heaven. I wish I never existed. There's nothing that God can do or say that will justify him forcing people to exist so that he can dominate and abuse them.

            I agree with your reasoning, that God is responsible for His creation. I just can't conclude that this creation is bad. There are examples of wrong but they show us what is possible. The world could be uninspired or completely ignorant to suffering, but it exists this way so that it can have purpose.

            The concept of fallen angels is fascinating to me, the idea that there are beings that knew God before creation and still concluded to leave Him. I think there are humans with the same mentality, that they should follow the philosophy they were created with and continue on with whatever destiny it puts before them. We don't know what our purpose is, we could be literally inheriting the universe or we could be lines in the sand that point to something else. Whatever the case I'm glad you are honest with yourself.

            • 7 months ago
              Anonymous

              >show us what is possible
              >so that it can have purpose

              These are the same retarded non-justifications that the demiurge always spits out, being abused for someone elses "purposes" isn't good it's evil, showing people that rape, murder etc is "possible" isn't good it's evil. Nobody asked to exist and being forced to suffer is never going to be a good thing.

              >We don't know what our purpose is, we could be literally inheriting the universe

              The demiurge likes to tell these sorts of lies sometimes too because he literally thinks that desire for a happy existence is justification to force someone to experience an unhappy existence. He literally believes that lying that something good will come after death makes him good if people believe it. He is so morally retarded and evil it's unimaginable. He's already made it explicitly clear repeatedly that nothing good can ever happen for me, he created the universe so that he can be the sole enjoyer of it and abuse and dominate other people, he will never allow anyone to enjoy creation except himself, he gets triggered if I even imagine living a happy life, he violently gatekeeps the slightest good things and he will never change or stop being a retarded evil tranny.

              • 7 months ago
                Anonymous

                >we are abused out of love
                I imagine that when mankind was "pure" they still did bad things, they just weren't aware or affected by them. Just as you made the choice to look into what is wrong about holiness as a concept, early man decided to learn evil without much to provoke them. You could say this environment was setting us up for failure which is a valid argument given that we don't understand the cause (or even get an explanation) for our suffering. Having no hope might be a good reason not to live your life, but taking pride in what you understand is also very possible.

                >the ruler of Earth lies to us
                I agree that this is true for different reasons that will not carry over. Sure we are allowed to believe falsehoods and even endure fake realities, but all these things are only memories in time. I personally don't mind pain that won't cause lasting damage, but if you believe in some way that the soul itself can suffer then why doesn't the demiurge ever stub it's toe in the process of torturing you? It seems to me that you want to be insignificant and this conflict of interests is why you have no agency.
                TLDR: a deity that sculpts reality as a vanity project wouldn't need to trick their creations.

                >tranny
                I don't believe in that shekhinah shit, even if there is a point to it I wouldn't want to give such a being the honor of acknowledgement.

      • 7 months ago
        Anonymous

        This is essentially the position of Caussade in his classic Abandonment to Divine Providence, which every Christian and Catholic should read. It is incredibly profound, yet straightforward, easy to understand, and blessedly concise.
        Caussade should be made a Doctor of the Church.

        It should be noted that this position on the question of suffering derives, among other things, from such scripture passages as:
        >All things work together for good for those who love God.
        Romans 8:28

        And:
        >Are not five sparrows sold for two pennies? Yet not one of them is forgotten by God. 7And even the very hairs of your head are all numbered. So do not be afraid; you are worth more than many sparrows.
        Luke 12:6-7

        Online edition of Abandonment to Divine Providence:
        https://ccel.org/ccel/decaussade/abandonment/abandonment.ii_1.i.i.i.html

        • 7 months ago
          Anonymous

          If it is so highly esteemed by Romanists there must be nothing of value in it.

        • 7 months ago
          Anonymous

          I think people need to see this more because this is the opposite of the prosperity gospel and things like the law of attraction. You can't just manifest things out of nowhere. This isn't how it works. God accounts for everything and God works out everything in accordance to His will and decree. I need to surrender more to God and ask that His will be done. God's will shall be done either way but I must make peace with it.

          If it is so highly esteemed by Romanists there must be nothing of value in it.

          I throw some things from the Romanists away because of heresies but not this. Divine providence is one of the basic tenants of Christianity. The idea that God has a plan and the idea that what you go through in life, every single bit of it has meaning in accordance to God's plan and will. It flies in the face of the nihilism of today where nothing has meaning. It says that everything that happens to you has meaning because of God's plans.

          • 7 months ago
            Anonymous

            >I need to surrender more to God and ask that His will be done. God's will shall be done either way but I must make peace with it.

            Do read Caussade's little book, anon. It is a marvelously wise guide, and reinforcement, once one makes this spiritual turn. And he is a superb writer, to boot. The book is filled with the most striking imagery. For example, the printing press/infinite alphabet image in pic related here

            This is essentially the position of Caussade in his classic Abandonment to Divine Providence, which every Christian and Catholic should read. It is incredibly profound, yet straightforward, easy to understand, and blessedly concise.
            Caussade should be made a Doctor of the Church.

            It should be noted that this position on the question of suffering derives, among other things, from such scripture passages as:
            >All things work together for good for those who love God.
            Romans 8:28

            And:
            >Are not five sparrows sold for two pennies? Yet not one of them is forgotten by God. 7And even the very hairs of your head are all numbered. So do not be afraid; you are worth more than many sparrows.
            Luke 12:6-7

            Online edition of Abandonment to Divine Providence:
            https://ccel.org/ccel/decaussade/abandonment/abandonment.ii_1.i.i.i.html

            . (This is the Beevers translation, btw, which is excellent. I note that the E.J Strickland and the Joyce/Thorold translations are also quite good, imho.)

            • 7 months ago
              Anonymous

              Thank you for the book and excerpt anon. I think most of our lack of peace is lack of submitting to God's will and the lot God chose for us in life. In order for a peaceful life within, we must say "Thy will be done, I accept your sovereign control Lord". Mary in your example is one of the best examples. She could have lost it all with Joseph leaving her a single mother but this isn't what ended up happening. God's providence covered for her in order for the savior to be born.

              Now we always see the question of suffering and why the Lord would have this happen. If people better understood that suffering takes a large part within God's plan to bring better things to fruition, people would be less suicidal and would find more meaning in the world. In some cases the suffering is the Lord bringing us to Him. The more we suffer, the more we are brought closer to Him so we depend on Him and realize that it is His will not ours. We aren't the ones who control the universe. He does.

  2. 7 months ago
    Anonymous

    Yes.

    Roman Catholics fucked up by simping for hedonism, and to keep hedonism, postpone suffering into the next life, inventing purgatory.

    This life is our purgatory.

    • 7 months ago
      Anonymous

      proofs or shut the fuck up

      • 7 months ago
        Anonymous

        Proof: It's true.

    • 7 months ago
      Anonymous

      That isn't what's wrong with purgatory

      • 7 months ago
        Anonymous

        Yes. What's wrong with it IMO is that it undermines grace.

        • 7 months ago
          Anonymous

          Specifically Anon it is a fundamental denial of the gospel of Jesus Christ. If you have to go to purgatory to burn off all your extra sins so that you can be truly inwardly righteous and enter God's presence on account of such righteousness then those sins were not paid for on the cross and you do not enter heaven on Jesus' righteousness.

  3. 7 months ago
    Anonymous

    >sactification
    That's a good way to say "cope"

    • 7 months ago
      Anonymous

      This. I don’t give a f*** about God. If I want to make out with some dudes and maybe get fucked in the ass, I’ll fucking do it.

      • 7 months ago
        Anonymous

        Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves, because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever! Amen. For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature; and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error. And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a debased mind to do what ought not to be done.

  4. 7 months ago
    Anonymous

    cute and truthpilled

  5. 7 months ago
    Anonymous

    Okay now prove it

  6. 7 months ago
    Anonymous

    All suffering in this world give me trace back to the sin of man. God gave them free will and some men use it to sin. This is like saying since God made rocks then it's God's fault that somebody murders someone with a rock.

    It's just nonsense.

    • 7 months ago
      Anonymous

      God can make people suffer to sanctify them and all death happens whenever God wills it. God can conversely use suffering to punish a population like He did Sodom. God is ruler of the universe and nothing can happen without will or permission.

  7. 7 months ago
    Anonymous

    Why does god have preferences?

    • 7 months ago
      Anonymous

      If God had no preferences, God wouldn't be sentient.

      • 7 months ago
        Anonymous

        so there's something god can't do? he's bound by this law?

  8. 7 months ago
    Anonymous

    God is love
    Depends how you define love, tho

    • 7 months ago
      Anonymous

      People who love to say "God is love" typically reject God's wrath and judgement. They define "love" as blind tolerance to evil. Love is not tolerance to evil, love is intolerance to evil.

      • 7 months ago
        Anonymous

        True. Truly divine love demands the torturing of 99.99% of humanity for ever. True Christians know this.

      • 7 months ago
        Anonymous

        >God's wrath and judgement
        God wants to be wrathful and judgmental, else he wouldn't have created beings he knew were going to make him wrathful and judgmental.

    • 7 months ago
      Anonymous

      Does God send people to Hell?

      • 7 months ago
        Anonymous

        I'm not going to ruin my youtube recommendations. type the relevant information, lazy homosexual.

        • 7 months ago
          Anonymous

          Not him, but you can just open it in a private browser window that doesn't store cookies and don't log in.

          • 7 months ago
            Anonymous

            There's still the fact that I'm enabling some nagger christcuck's laziness if I don't demand him to actually type something instead of linking the same video ad nauseam.

        • 7 months ago
          Anonymous

          tl;d<watch>
          qrd please
          I don't want to go to loving God's hell

          It's a very well-done video, worth watching in full. Indeed, in the nature of the argument, it really needs to be fleshed out to fully make sense.

          But here's the qrd. Hell is more in the nature of a *state* than a *place*. It is the state of *willful separation from God*, or else the state of *active, eternal, rejection of God's love*; which, inevitably, leads to suffering because God is the source of our being and of all that is good. In other words, hell is the natural result of sin, which is the very opposite of God's will. If anyone sends us to hell, then, we send ourselves there, put ourselves in that state of separation, through the choices we make. Because we are, in the end, the sum and substances of the choices we make.

          As C.S. Lewis puts it in his books The Great Divorce and God in the Dock:

          >"It's not a question of God 'sending' us to Hell. In each of us there is something growing up which will of itself be Hell unless it is nipped in the bud."

          >"There are only two kinds of people in the end: those who say to God, 'Thy will be done,' and those to whom God says, in the end, 'Thy will be done.' All that are in Hell, choose it. Without that self-choice there could be no Hell. No soul that seriously and constantly desires joy will ever miss it. Those who seek find. Those who knock it is opened."

          >"The doors of hell are locked from the inside"

          For more information, check out these videos:

          Bishop Barron on Hell https://youtu.be/x8zhnooySk4

          Bishop Barron on Whether Hell is Crowded or Empty https://youtu.be/dmsa0sg4Od4

          What is Heaven? https://youtu.be/OCGbDKnYEyo

          • 7 months ago
            Anonymous

            Thanks - your answer is surpringly (to me) OK

      • 7 months ago
        Anonymous

        tl;d<watch>
        qrd please
        I don't want to go to loving God's hell

  9. 7 months ago
    Anonymous

    Theodicy is impossible because Justice is not a real universal.

    The concept of "justice" is dependent on "just deserts." Just deserts is "Person X deserves Y in virtue of Z". This is already a partially circular concept because of 'deserves Y'. Therefore that middleman Y should be dispensed altogether for simplicity, "Person X determines through virtue Z".

    Now, religion (which engages in theodicy) says that virtue includes 'slave morality' ("Blessed are the poor", "Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth", "With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love.", "Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering"). "Meekness", "poverty", "longsuffering", "kindness" are said to be causes. However, they do not cause anything. Meekness, poverty, longsuffering and kindness cannot stop a gun pointed at someone nor can they purchase goods and services. They cannot stop/win wars or recessions. So they are not virtues at all, that allows person X to determine anything.

    The only virtue that determines anything is Machiavellian "virtù" or master morality's might. Person X determines through virtù Z. "Deserts" do not exist. Because "Justice" is dependent on "Deserts", slave morality "Justice" does not exist either. Which goes to the second premise. Therefore it follows theodicy is impossible. Might makes right. Suffering has no purpose nor meaning.

    God is neither "just" nor "unjust", because "Justice" does not exist. Second Horn of the Euthyphro dilemma.

  10. 7 months ago
    Anonymous

    >God makes you suffer for His purposes
    If this was said about anything else, it would be Stockholm Syndrome. But because it is a bearded man in the sky, suddenly it's acceptable.

  11. 7 months ago
    Anonymous

    All heaven and hell is, is the consequence of accepting or rejecting Gods love, God doesnt have to send anyone anywhere, you already feel varying degrees of heaven and hell in this life, by your choices and your orientation towards the good/purity, there is no "gotcha" in the end, God gives you exactly what you want, simple as that

    • 7 months ago
      Anonymous

      >just world fallacy: the post

      • 7 months ago
        Anonymous

        are you retarded lol thats the whole point of christianity, life in this world may or not be just for aan individual, but in the afterlife everyone will receive perfect justice for thier actions, youre really dumb not gunna lie

        • 7 months ago
          Anonymous

          >life in this world may or not be just for aan individual
          >you already feel varying degrees of heaven and hell in this life
          Contradicting yourself, christcuckie? Angry that I'm making a fool out of you? What are you gonna do, pray? kill yourself homosexual, lmao. Meet your maker.
          I

          • 7 months ago
            Anonymous

            yea a person who likes to do bad things is a miserable person, most children can intuit this, versus people who intentionally do good derive virtuous pleasure, joy from goodness for goodness' sake, im not sure sure if its an issue of intelligence or a marred soul, but ill pray for you anon 🙂

          • 7 months ago
            Anonymous

            the concious feeling here for your actions is a preview yes, but when you die you dont oscillate anymore, its a final decision of paradise with God, or nothingness and misery without him, and in this life you experiment your moraloty before hand before making your final decision, how is that hard to get kek

          • 7 months ago
            Anonymous

            How are you seething this much

    • 7 months ago
      Anonymous

      Yeah, I bet Bezos is a billionaire because he is actually a pious christian, lol.

      • 7 months ago
        Anonymous

        what? heaven isnt wealth you fucking moron, its a peaceful soul, thats why the beatitudes is a pardox for earthly people, becuase God says those you have less attachment in this world through suffering in this life cling more deeply to him, the true source of joy, a joy and peace unaffected by the desires of this world, hence the explosion of enthusiastic martyrs, heaven is in the heart, someone being a billionaire in this life due to good decisions doesnt mean theyll be wise enough to be virtuous in this life and choose God in the end, your lack of interpretational skill is baffling

        • 7 months ago
          Anonymous

          Bezos is sitting on a yacht eating lobster somewhere and you're lecturing me about how suffering builds character or whatever, you really are delusional.

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