why are there countless wacky sects and bizarre syncretic religions who hold Ali to be so special? what historical evidence even is there for Ali? is Ali God himself?
right?
>As [the Nusayris i.e., Alawites] left the ravaged town they cursed the two Sunni Caliphs Abu Bakr and Umar and shouted
>”There is no God but Ali, no veil but Muhammad, and no door but Salman.”
>In their distress, the inhabitants of Jabalah cried out for help, but no help came.
>Ibn Kathir goes on to say the Nusayri leader ordered his men to ravage Muslim places of worship and turn them into taverns selling wine.
>Whenever the Nusayris captured a Muslim, they commanded him to say, “There is no God but Ali. Worship your God Ali, who causes people to live and die, in order to spare your blood.
Ali would have killed shias if he saw what they did with his image
Ali (ra) and Isa (as) will curse the people who worship them
Jesus literally accepted the worship that the disciples gave to him.
Religions actually rely on charismatic figures to propagate. No one looks at church law or islamic law and goes I want some of that. They see charismatic figures like Paul, Saints, Ali, etc as follow them and then get exposed to orthopraxy and orthodoxy
Because orthodox Islam is largely the creation of the Caliphates, it's a political religion, and Sunni Islam greatly influenced many aspects of mainstream Shi'ism. So for example, Muhammad's prophethood wasn't always regarded as high as it is now, at one time Jesus was more important than even Muhammad as the Dome of the Rock inscriptions give evidence for. In the exact region where the Alawites live there was known to be heavy syncretism between Christianity and Islam because it was mostly Christians who were converting to Islam. Similar syncretism can be seen in India where many Sufi mystics combined aspects of Islam with Hinduism of all religions. But anyway, many Shia sects have heavily combined elements of Christianity and Greek philosophy and Gnosticism in. This is most evident among the Alawites who celebrate Christian holidays and celebrate a Eucharist where they believe the bread and wine transubstantiate into the flesh and blood of Ali ibn Ali Talib.
In one of the Hadith Muhammad says Ali is his replacement after he dies. Also first caliphate that was actually his descendant and lots of people at the time wanted a descendant to be the caliphate.
This really doesn't have anything to do with the original succession dispute anymore, if asked in isolation most Sunnis would agree Ali should've been the first Caliph, but it wasn't that big of a deal and ultimately everything that happened afterwards with the Shiites gives them the attitude of "fuck you"
It does though. Shia follow the precepts of Ali while the Sunnis follow the precepts of the other three caliphs
This is like saying the Protestant-Catholic divide is about indulgences
Yes. It was about the questionable practices of the Catholic church with indulgences acting as the figurehead for the rest.
Do you seriously believe anyone cares anymore?
Yes that's why the Catholic church started the counter reformation and other reforms in order to stop people from leaving.
>Do you seriously believe anyone cares anymore?
By your logic Christians shouldn't care about Jesus' life. You logic is very warped.
My logic is that the Sunni-Shia split, and especially the emergence of retarded ghulat sects, has absolute jack shit to do with the early Caliphal succession dispute and just trying to cite it as some kind of meaningful reasoning is completely worthless and reveals a lack of understanding of the subject matter. It's the theoretical cause of the split at the beginning, but it is not a point of focus for anyone involved anymore. It is similar to the Protestant-Catholic split in this sense that both sides broadly agree about the initial issue at this point, but their animosity stems from the history that has unfolded since then and the accrued doctrinal and practical differences.
https://www.degruyter.com/document/doi/10.1515/islam-2018-0002/html?lang=en
Muḥammad the Paraclete and ʿAlī the Messiah: New Remarks on the Origins of Islam and of Shiʿite Imamology
So basically Shia Islam IS Christianity?
Shia is catholicism.
Makes sense. Both have a priestly class, both worship a secondary figure other than their main person, both are more fond of iconography, both pray to the dead. Seems legit.
Well I'm just saying people thought he was something special from the start. So it's not too surprising to find sects like the alawites, alevis, etc.
What proof is there he existed
He probably did. Why would someone make him up. Who fought Muawiyah during the civil war?
So there’s no evidence he existed?
He's mentioned in early sources and accounts in the 7th century. What more do you want?
which ones?
Download Hoyland's seeing islam as others saw it from libgen then just search for Muhammad, Ali, or whoever. Its a compilation of 7th century sources about islam