Whats the most interesting and fascinating civilization to exist and why is it Al-Andalus?
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Al-Andalus was massively overrated
>t. Carlos Mahomed Sanchez de Shitkin
>Al-Andalus was massively overrated
Is it really? What other civilization has produced so much philosophical, scientific snd architectural monuments in history after the fall of the Greco-Roman civilization? Not only that but it was the moors who preserved or restored many of the ancient monuments built by the Romans and also preserved many of the platonic and aristotelic texts, they also preserved some texts that were later trabslated and included into the Corpus Herneticum if im not mistaken
It was just a change of management m8. It was Byzantine right before the Moors invaded, so of course there were many Greco-Roman elements preserved. Greco-Roman tradition never died there
Byzantine? Lmfao kid... it was visigoth
it's overrated because people think all of alandalus was le good when that only lasted for a couple hundred years then it turned into petty kingdoms. still superior to spaniards tho
Nigga it almost lasted 1000 years, what are you talking about...
but it wasn't a place of science for the entirety of it
first post worst post
Because it was a germanic culture. Ex-visigoths converted to islam. 2nd class muslim elites were berebers. There are the emirs painted in the Alhambra ceilings.
>"He (Abd al-Rahman III, founder of the Umayyad Caliphate of Cordoba) is described as having white skin, blue eyes and attractive face; good looking, although somewhat sturdy and stout. His legs were short, to the point that the stirrups of his saddle were mounted just one palm under it. When mounted, he looked tall, but on his feet he was quite short. He dyed his beard black. His natural hair was described as being reddish-blond, and he apparently wished to avoid looking like a Visigoth (from many European concubines in his ancestry), desiring to look more like an Umayyad Arab."
>"Due to the fact that each successive Caliph had children almost exclusively with European Christian slave girls, the Arab gene was reduced in half, so that the last Umayyad Caliph, Hisham II was around only .09% Arab"
Kek the Cordoba Ummayads were such self hating gigamutts; but reversed. Imagine looking like some hyperborean god and yet seething because you wish you looked brown
>Abd al-Rahman III,
Muhammad ibn Nasr was the main builder of the most relevant muslim monument in Spain: La Alhambra.
It is one of these dudes. As anyone can see, muslim Spain was full of white dudes doing everything.
ONLY some visigoths that lived in Andalucía. The bulk of the visigoths lived in Castilla and never converted. A good amount of visigoths that lived in the central-south of Spain went north and did not convert either.
Anyways islam was just being created (80 years earlier from 711) and it did not have the stigma it now has. Visigoths entered in Spain with the arianism religion, so they did not give a fuck to change again to a new religion if it suited them (in the south).
>Abd al-Rahman III
He was never Arab to begin with. Only linguistically. The Umayyads had been in Andalus for 200 years at that point.
>Abd al-Rahman III's mother Muzna was a Christian captive, possibly from the Pyrenean region. His paternal grandmother Onneca Fortúnez was a Christian princess from the Kingdom of Pamplona. In his immediate ancestry, Abd al-Rahman III was Arab and Hispano–Basque.
It is clear he was just an Iberian. I mean we're talking at least 75% Iberian. He unironically had more berber ancestors than arab ancestors which is funny because he barely had any berber ones.
>When the chronicles mention female slaves, they typically do not specify origin, with the exception of the mothers of lords (amirs) and caliphs." In Andalusian courts, female slaves were often Berbers imported from North Africa and were also highly valued in the Middle East because they were stereotyped as being ideal sexual partners, whereas their Christian counterparts were particularly prized for their capacity for domestic work.” Of the first Umayyad ruler, Abd al-Rahman I (r. 756-788 ce), for example, it was said that “his mother was an wom walad (mother of the master’s child) named Rah, a captive of the Zanata tribe”—that is, a Berber of the Nafza tribe, taken to Syria.” Likewise, the mother of Abd al-Rahman II (r. 821—852.CE) was “an umm walad named Halawa, a Berber muwallada” (an dual of mixed slave and free origin). Although there were free Berber women in al-Andalus, it is also known that slaves of this origin were traded at every point story ‘An especially striking anecdote is told regarding another Berber slave mother, Athl,whose son was the ruler al-Mundhir (r. 886-888 CE)
So the only thing that happened was that berbers were eventually swapped for christian princesses. During no time in Muslim rule in Iberia did any of them mfers actually have children with arab women.
>He was never Arab to begin with
Arabs base their lineage on patrilineal descent. It doesn't matter if you're genetically 95% Iberian/Habesha/Berber or whatever, if your paternal ancestors descend from Adnanite or Qahtanite tribes you're an Arab.
>Arabs base their lineage on patrilineal descent.
We all know this is just a big cope. Arabs say this while having a completely different culture from the original gulf arabs. Look at how them gulf mfers are compared to levantines. Even then there is a world of difference. There is a reason why gulfies make it very difficult for foreigners to get citizenship you know. You can never be a real arab unless you fully descend from arabs.
You're autistic. The Ummayads were a dynasty from the Quraysh tribe of the Prophet Muhammad. Patrilineal descent was prized by Arabs and remains so today.
Massive cope. I said it somewhere else but Arabs dont consider you arab if you’re 0.01% arab because of some patrilineal line. Look at how gulfies look at north africans and levantines. The umayyads were an arab dynasty but they changed heavily from how they used to be. Even when they left for Iberia, they were basically levantines at that point.
Muhammad himself was white, also.
It's a bit overrated, now 9th century Baghdad on the other hand...
>now 9th century Baghdad on the other hand...
Redpill me on 9th century Baghdad
the myth of al-aldalus being developed is invented by spanish leftists to allow nafris into spain.
al aldalus was a shithole with 2 or 3 intellectuals imported from peninsular arabia and persia working there
Them and the Sephardic israelites.
It was a more advanced civilization than its European neighbors
In what way?
they nice fountains n'sheit or something.
It's weird how visigoths en masse accepted conversion to islam and arab culture. I guess it depends on the mindset of the people, they were too concerned about maintaining their wealth rather than conserving their legacy
Islamic culture is the most successful in integration, conquer any non muslim region and in couple of months everyone is wearing turbans and walking on rugs
Its probably because of the way muslim rulers encourage conversion. They disenfranchize other religious groups but make a path to wealth and prosperity easy via conversion to Islam.
>visigoths en masse accepted conversion to islam and arab culture
never happened. The vast majority of al-andalus was mozarabic (i.e. latin and christian)
Ibn Hazm was the greatest Iberian to ever live
It is really fascinating because it went to where it belongs, into nothingness. Into the trashbin of history.
mfer that pic is in morocco not andalusia
and? Its still Moorish heritage
same thing nigga!
Andalusia was created by Moroccans so he is not wrong to use it.
Actually by Vandals, Andalusia comes from al-Vandalus
Overrated, and in my opinion hyped up by people with some sort of political agenda to push.
Also what's so fascinating and special about about "Muslims, but get this, IN EUROPE" I just don't get it. What would even be that special about sandnig religion followers ruling and increasingly tinier part of the iberian penninsula over the course of 700 years then getting genocided.
Muslim Sicily is more interesting because the coexistence with latins and greeks
The division between North Spain and South Spain.
Baeticans (andalucians) before Al-Aldanlus (Tartessos) era received mass influences from eastern mediterranean (phoenicians and greeks) and where colonized by punics first, and romans later. It was a province so important that Eastern Roman Empire even sent a military expedition to reconquer Tangier and Baetica while left rest of Spain to their fate in the hands of the barbarians, considering how much developed were Gallaecia, Lusitania, Tarraconensis and Carthaginensis as provinces (they were homeland of pope Damasus, Theodosius I, Martial, Orosius, Prudencius, Priscilian, etc.), this may be an example between the cultural-economic gap between Baetica and the rest of Iberian peninsula.
When Arabs arrived from the eastern end of the world back then, although they conquered a good part of the peninsula at first, before the reconquest they only dedicated themselves to maintaining the territories of the old provinces of Tarraconensis and especially Baetica. During the climax of power in Al-Andalus; the warlord Almanzor led successful campaigns against the Kingdom of Leon, the Basque clans and the Catalan counties, but he never annexed them to Al-Andalus but kept them as tributary states. A similar case occurred before the push of the North African empires such as the Almohads, Almoravids and Marinid, the main objective was not so much to conquer but to maintain Andalusia and Valencia.
Not ironically, the Muslim caliphates were the heirs of the silent ancient Mediterranean, they were welcomed by the centers of civilization of the ancient world, such as Syria, Anatolia, Magna Graecia, Tartessos, Tunisia, Mesopotamia and Persia.
Muslims were received by the population of Baetica as liberators who came to end the yoke of the barbarian occupation. While in the northern provinces of the iberian peninsula the Muslims were received with hostility.
Un andaluh escribió esto. Pensándolo mejor lo escribió alguien que vive en alguna ciudad europea gigante como París y es emigrante de segunda generación.
> Anatolia, Magna Graecia
The first oen was conquered (who am I kidding, it was overran) by turks who were only incidentally muslim and the denizens definitey didn't welcome them, while the mainland part of magna grecia (The more important part too) was never really conquered by the muslims (turks or otherwise) for a very long period of time, and the denizens certainly didn't welcome them.
By Crusades era almost whole Anatolia was conquered by Turks leaving Eastern roman empire the greek cities from aegean coast. Arabs stablished a sultanate in Sicily, Sardinia, Apulia and Calabria, while Al-Andalus sent an expedition that conquered Crete and stablished an Emirate there.
The borders of the expansion of the Islamic civilization were conditioned by the cultural centers of the ancient world. Almost all regions in the Old World that were Neolithic basin were conquered by Islam, from Danube in Balkans to Guadalquivir valley in Spain, to Mesopotamia and Nile in Egypt, to the Levant, the fertile valleys of the Atlas in Morocco, to Hindus Valley in Pakistan.
If, in fact, Islam did not reach China because the Muslim war machine after the Battle of Talas (753) had enough for an empire that vast.
>By Crusades era almost whole Anatolia was conquered by Turks leaving Eastern roman empire the greek cities from aegean coast. Arabs stablished a sultanate in Sicily
This all happened.
This didn't, there was a later invasion but there was never a sultante, it wa repulsed by a joint pisan genoese coalition.
Didn't last very long. But I guess the sultanate of bari did technically very briefly happen.
I don't know what the rest of your pont is trying to get to but go on I guess. I'm bored.
This is a leftie delusion. Make no mistake, Arab Islamic expansion was a CONQUEST. It destroyed the living Greco-Roman Mediterranean civilization. It extinguished the Greco-Roman light across the region. Muslims were not liberators in Iberia. They were conquerors. Al-Andalus thrived despite Islam, not because of it. Most citizens of the Caliphate had contempt for 'true' Arabs.
Visigothic Hispania was by far the most romanized region in Europe after the Eastern Roman Empire. Youre operating on narratives, likely driven by politics, instead of operating on facts. Visigothic laws were practically identical to the imperial laws that they inherited from the Romans. Latin was still the official language of their Kingdom. The administrative institutions were from the Roman era were all maintained, putting aside the upper-most sphere of power.
You are historically illiterate. I dont know what compels someone to post on a topic they are so blatantly ignorant in with such confidence. Like the other anon said, probably some sort of agenda.
tl;dr visigoths were infinitely, infinitely, more Romanized and civilized than any of the muslim factions that occupied the peninsula ever were.
If it was so advanced why did it happen in Europe?